Topic: What about Gibraltar? (Read 317 times)

gibralter has many hidden things going on.

such as some african countries set up businesses in gibralter to then be 'a british company' without having to travel thousands of miles to get to actual britain

(hint: egypt makes more potato than what the UK thinks it gets from irish(EU) land while still technically calling it a british farming company )
its complicated but yea. it happens

If i am to guess, they would probably issue some sort of special entry permit for these people. It is not that uncommon in borders, probably not extensive to all Spanish nationals, just those living nearby. The rest would have to do customs like all EU citizens...

What is the importance of Gibraltar at this point in time? is it justifiable to maintain it? Beyond bragging and some "UK proud" that is. Is it even sustainable? Hong Kong is a commerce hub, but Gibraltar is... some rock with an airstrip crossed by its main street (or did they finish that tunnel?).

Well i can also think of a sheep island in front of Argentina they waged a war for. But at least there they say there is some oil now... Colonies are funny things, is Gibraltar a colony? I don't even understand this "commonwealth" business...

the uk will not be a trusted trading partner, as it is not a trust worthy country anymore we are talking here about a nazi state brexit is defakto making uk a nazi system, thats why scots now want out.

but eu sucks as the freemasons controlling the central bank basically are spineless criminals, letting in refugees causing a conflict between the population while they only care of controlling the currency

There is a more interesting problem than customs on Gibraltar <> UK border.

"Around 20,000 people are permanently employed in Gibraltar, consisting of both locals, and foreigners living just across the border in Spain. It has been estimated that about 9,000 cross the border for work everyday and most of the time is without incident."

A friend of mine is one of those 20 000 people. He's living in Algeciras because it's a few times cheaper and he's worried about what to do after 2021.
Brits are planning to cancel the people's free movement agreement after Brexit. There will be no VISAs for EU citizens, but most probably they will be allowed 3 months of free stay every 6 months. If Brits doesn't make some exceptions, many people will end screwed.

i agree fully with your tory assessment. but boris was not the planner/instigator of this whole saga.. he has only been in the job a couple months.. it was cameron and May that were the trigger. boris is just the gunshot residue

in my view i see that behind hidden doors real deals have already been done but to save face and glamourise things. they have to make things look scary for 2 reasons
1. EU dont want other countries folowing suit
2. if things went smoothly in media then th PM(s) cant then tak the trophy for solving XYZ.
so i believe the deals have ben done and all this last couple years is just fake political posturing and acting out like its more complicated than it is. purely for show

and as for th food standards.. actually the UK food standards include all EU food standards and have more standards above that. so even without EU law. UK food standards remains higher than EU. brexit itself wont harm standards.. because after brexit.. then britain has to as a separate thing altogther then go through all the uk stuff and start changing the uk laws to be less regulated. which in itself is a timely thing to happen way way after brexit
in short brexit dosnt make UK a lawlss country. britain still carries on as is. but then gets to decide if it wants to remove certain statements that are in UK law that were just copy/paste laws of EU. or just leave the standards as they are

I agree that there is a lot of fear-mongering, and the media catastrophising about absolutely everything. I do think my point stands that we will get worse deals outside the EU than we would as part of it, whatever the percentage difference may be. Even 1%, it's still a net loss. But my main concern is leaving under the current Tory government. They don't like the EU because of the rights and protections it offers. Once free of EU constraints, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and his coterie of arrogant, entitled, incompetent Eton/Oxbridge friends will ramp up their plans to dismantle the state. The US healthcare firms are already waiting like vampires, ready to bleed the NHS dry. Food standards will disappear, chlorinated chicken being the tip of the metaphorical iceberg. Workers' rights, redundancy protection, maternity pay etc etc will all be targets in the ongoing quest to fuck the ordinary man-in-the-street and increase the rate at which the money already flows from the hard-working average person into the overflowing pockets of the undeserving rich.

I switched to UK food products quite  a while ago. For example, Somerset brie is creamier and has a better taste (in my opinion) than the sterile product that France pushes out ito its export market. Britain buys twice as much from the EU as it sells, so the EU will be in a mess if we stop trading with them, and our food prices will drop, and quality will improve, once we are out of their control.

Don;t even start on banking, almost all of the EU derivatives are traded through London, and LIBOR is the defined rate in most of them. Having to rewite the derivative agreement will cause massive losses for EU banks, as most of them are toxic.

britain has more weight than people think. britain is a convenient gateway access to the commonwealth countries. yep dont think of britain as a customer base of under 70mill but a customer base of hundreds of millions of people via the commonwealth

also the trade deals customs taxes will never be even in 'worse cases' 100% tax, or 500% or 50% instead its like 6%-16%
we in britain are able to cope with at 'worsecase' 16%.. w are already used to seeing bread an veg drop and rise in price by 50% purely due to seasonal farming changes and also financial exchange rate changes and we dont even blink an eye

dont believe me that the rates are only going to be 6%-16%
well
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/temporary-rates-of-customs-duty-on-imports-after-eu-exit/mfn-and-tariff-quota-rates-of-customs-duty-on-imports-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-with-no-deal

so all this media fear mongering about things becoming mega expensive when the reality is just 16% worse case

hell lets put things into perspective
swiss cheese £18.25/kg has a duty of £0.24 in worse case deal
so £18.25 becomes £18.49.. but hey they worlds going to end because cheese is 24p a kg more expensive.
oh as the retailer sit shows. most people dont even buy a kg of cheese instead they prefer 200g so the £3.65 pack of 200g cheese is actually going to be £3.70..  and as you can see, thats not really a noticable change

True that media hype everything up to the point of absurdity. But still any border changes to N Ireland, whether invisible borders in the sea or physical borders with the Republic, are going to rasie tensions and create conflict. We've just barely managed to keep a lid on the Ireland stuff the last couple of decades, it's not going to take much to start it all off again.

True again, and yet Britain is much smaller economically than the EU (especially the EU with Britain as a part of it). The bigger you are in economic terms, the more negotiating power you have. We will get worse trade deals as an independent country. The negotiations with the US and China will basically be non-existent, we take the terms they offer and that's it. The UK doesn't have the weight it thinks it has.

a cornish pasty aint a cornish pasty unless its from cornwall. and cider aint true cider unless from somerset.
your kent cider and that irish stuff aint real cider. its just alcohol with flavouring or alcoholic applejuice if your lucky

somerset still grows the proper stuff. and so it should
just like cheddar cheese should only be made in cheddar

as for the other stuff about how simple/hard it is for the irish border disputes. media again hypes up how much violence and riots will errupt due to brexit. when infact britain has no control over what border walls europe want to put up

britain doesnt and shouldnt be the ones putting up a wall.. if europe wants to keep britiain from trading with southern ireland under the good friday agreement, unhindered by customs. then europe need to be the bad guys and build their prison walls

southern and northern ireland can just continue as they are and then worry about customs at the coastal borders..
and again
thinking not bing EU means no trade.. again for emphasis. america, russia, africa, asia are not EU but they have trade deals.. so a stay in EU is not a binary option of trade or not trade. we can be out and still trade.
if europ want to waste money on walls, and hope to recoup THEIR losses via customs they could. or they can get an accountant and realise its cheaper and more peaceful to just let north/south ireland do as they have done and just worry about customs at the costal borders towards europe or england

It's true that the UK has a tendency to over-estimate its importance in the world, and does often behave with a sort of arrogant entitlement, particularly towards the EU.
However - even if Europe is no doubt sick of all the UK whining and complaining, and sick of the fact this single country has taken over EU business for the last couple of years, and still hasn't left... the fact remains that the UK will be a very important trading partner for the EU. The UK does still matter, just less than a lot of people think.

thats because no one in europe gives a damn about the islanders even if entire world speaks english that doesnt mean england is anyhow more respected financially

I'm lucky enough to visit Somerset fairly often, and the last time I was there I was given some "Sops in Wine" cider apples. A lovely old English apple with pink flesh. The EU forced us to destroy a lot of our tradition apple trees, and it was sad to see large orchards full of traditional apples being burn in Kent. Now most of the supermarkets seem to sell varieties like the mis-named pappy French Golden Delicious. Obviously it will take many years to reverse the destruction wreaked on out agriculture, and it may net even be possible, as most of it seems to be owned by EU or Chinese farming/banking conglomerates.

We won't be returning to British standards under the Tories. They will remove standards in order to maximise profit for themselves. Expect all regulations to be thrown on the metaphorical bonfire. Totally agree with you about the Eton/Oxbridge thing. When we leave, and the chlorinated chicken and its friends arrive, food will be cheaper but lower quality than now.

Thanks! I also tried to give you 5 English sMerits, but unfortunately our currency is going down the pan together with the economy as we get ready to leave the EU... so it got devalued to 3 :p

There is no problem with trade in Ireland. The only problem is that the puppet masters don't want to lose their UK cash cow, so thay have manufactured a non-existent problem to divert attention from the Main issues. In trade, this is the fact that the UK purchases twice as many goods from the EU in comparison to its sales, and the food is of lower quality and more expensive than would be available if we return to British standards. The real solution is for Southern Ireland to leave the EU with the UK, and become part of the new British Commonwealth.

My fears have been realised, as I knew that Johnson as an Eton/Oxford banker would  want to keep the UK shackled in the EU. You can't even call it treason, as the British Crown is one of the triumvirate that dominates the cabal that rules the EU.

@styca - you posted as I was making my post, so I have given you 5 English sMerits.

It's not that simple though. Northern Ireland, largely due to English inference over the centuries, is an absolute mess. Loyalists and Republicans are always at each others throats. An uneasy true was brokered with the Good Friday Agreement, which by some miracle has held firm these last couple of decades.

Johnson's fuckwit "plan" is not just stupid, it's profoundly irresponsible. He may as well just roll the tanks back out into Belfast.

A border between the Republic and N Ireland will not be accepted. Equally no border across Ireland, but a de facto border in the Irish Sea will not be accepted. There's no obvious solutions other than a) The UK remains in the EU, or b) the UK leaves the EU and the Republic leaves as well.

You can't have Republic in and UK out, whilst simultaneously not opening the gates of hell in N Ireland.

the solution for north/south ireland is simple

no customs inland. but as soon as goods reach the water ports to go to either mainland britain or mainland europe then customs apply

this whole thing is silly.
its like imagining a prison and an ex-con getting released but then the prison phones him and says
'to stop you getting back in we want you to pay for a wall'
excon has all their rights to laugh and say
'sorry the wall is to keep prisoners in and not let them out, if you want a wall, you build it'

imagine it like owning farmland. if you dont want your farm animals escaping and you dont want people tresspassing on your land unless they pay a visitor fee.. its the farmer who has to build the fensing.. not the neighbours

britain has no obligation to build a 'hard border'.. its up to europe to foot that cost should they wish too.

funny part of all this is.. america has no issus with northern or souther ireland or europe and they aint even EU members.. so to even think we will actually have issues is just media and political mumbo jumbo

in my view its just preaching a fake problem, then when the problem doesn manifest, the preacher proclaims himself king of solving the problem. even when the problem was not a problem

you are a nazi

I've been waiting for over 24 hours now for Jet Cash to shoot me down. No response yet. This is a bit of a concern. I have no choice really but to assume complete agreement with my last post

The Irish border issue can't be solved. I think that's the fundamental problem.

1) The Republic of Ireland is in the EU.
2) The UK must leave the EU.
3) There must be no hard border between the Republic and Northern Ireland.
4) There must be no border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

Where do you put the border, then? One of these points has to give. At the moment, the "plan" is to ditch point 4, set fire to the Good Friday Agreement, reignite the Troubles, bring the IRA out of retirement, and press on towards the reunification of Ireland. It's a good job the people in charge know what they're doing... It's not just that incompetent arrogant fool Johnson, he's also backed by people like Dominic Raab who doesn't understand how sea works (to paraphrase Stewart Lee).

I think that Britain made the right decision to leave the European Union. Since the policy of migrants is now quite dangerous for the locals.

Spain is not as powerful and influential as China so Gibraltar stays with the UK. I don't think EU will do something different.



There are still many influential leaders and politicians in the UK that wanted to stay with the EU. Before there were even plans of a re-vote and that the second one won't be including the whole populace.   

Gibraltar is too important for the UK to just give back to Spain like it did with Hong Kong.


Isn't this one of the things they are scaring the people with, that goods coming into the UK would become more expensive? That businesses would leave? How free are EU countries to make bilateral agreements with countries outside the bloc or have they lost that power to?

Why can't Ireland trade with you, when UK leaves the European Union?
There is no obstacle to doing so, but the two countries (Ireland & UK) have to pay higher customs duties.
The Irish adopted the Euro as a medium of exchange and I believe it is almost impossible to leave the EU and return to their old currency.
You still have the British Pound, it is a lot easier.
However, it is strange, that 3+ years after the referendum, you still have no exit plan.
I have the feeling, your government doesn't want to leave, you are trapped in EU and you just delay it.

I don't believe there will be a deal. Deals include a whole load of political stuff, and we voted to get rid of that. I think there will be a number of trade agrements, and if the EU doesn't change its attitude, then most of them will go elsewhere. The UK dropped its food standards when it entered the EU, and hopefully we will be able to regain those. Much of the quality food at the moment is still produced to the old standards, and if this continues, then the EU farmers and producers will be the losers.

With regards to Southern Ireland, there is an enormous trade with the UK, and they will have a severe economic downturn when we leave the EU if they are not allowed to continue to trade with us. The EU hasn't done them any favours, and in my opinion, their best option would be to leave the EU, and to become a self-governing country again. There is a wealth of talent and resources on the island, and they are quite capable of earning their keep in a competitive world.

Interesting to see. Though I doubt there's going to be a HARD (or whatever term they're using now) border between the two nations. There's going to most likely be some sort of agreement made for areas that truly do need it, arrangements made to make it easier for people who do business in the overlapping areas to not have too large of issues.

Though then again all of this WILL ONLY HAPPEN if the Eu and the UK can't come to a deal in terms of all of this. At the moment we're just speculating.

I didn't know that it is a UK territory. I am sorry.
I don't think that there will be any special agreement for Gibraltar. Every rule which be settled for UK will be effective for Gibraltar as well.

UK has borders with Cyprus as well. Akrotiri and Dhekelia is a British Overseas Territory.
According Wikipedia, there live about 15700 people.
Cyprus is a EU country.

Gibraltar is part of the UK, and it has a land border with Spain, which is part of the EU. It will obviously need a customs agreement with the EU once we are free of their shackles.

Once again the Irish border is back in the limelight, and it seems to be a major topic that the treasonous remoaners are using to try to force the UK to stay in the imploding EU. They keep saying that the Irish border is the only land border between the UK and the EU, but once again they are ignoring Gibraltar.  One wonders if there is a secret plan to give Gibraltar to Spain.