What are the real reasons Trump wants to stop the Caravan?

Spendulus

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Quote from: TECSHARE on November 02, 2018, 10:10:58 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on November 02, 2018, 09:50:57 AM

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on November 01, 2018, 08:59:36 PM

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-administration-migrant-caravan-border-troops-1193694

Seems like at least the American Military isn't scared of a few civilians with kids in flip flops.

In the Militaries opinion the MLCOA is the caravan will dwindle as it heads north and about 20% will make it to the border. They have also cited it is unlikely the migrants will be a violent threat nor are they likely to be smuggling drugs or human traffickers.

Ironically what they did say was more of a threat than the caravan was the ARMED red neck retards who want to play vigilante with their fucking guns who in the past have stolen national guard equipment...

In short your military is telling you your Pussy Grabber in Chief is a fear mongering scaredy cat who is using the military and spending millions of tax payers dollars on a false flag for the MT's, and you retards are eating it up hook line and sinker.

Either stop caravans with 1000 or 10,000 or have them with 100,000 and 1,000,000 next year. They're well funded from international sources for specific political purposes.

Stop acting like this is some joke please, or nothing more than an opportunity to blast the current POTUS.

It will be a joke to him until civil unrest gets out of control here, then he will be crying about his borders.

You'd think these people would have learned from Merkel, immigration and Europe.

suchmoon

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Quote from: Spendulus on November 02, 2018, 09:50:57 AM

Either stop caravans with 1000 or 10,000 or have them with 100,000 and 1,000,000 next year. They're well funded from international sources for specific political purposes.

They're so well funded they can't even get a bus.

Quote from: Spendulus on November 02, 2018, 09:50:57 AM

Stop acting like this is some joke please, or nothing more than an opportunity to blast the current POTUS.

The POTUS is the one who's making this into a joke and you're helping him by repeating his conspiracy theories.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: Spendulus on November 02, 2018, 09:50:57 AM

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on November 01, 2018, 08:59:36 PM

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-administration-migrant-caravan-border-troops-1193694

Seems like at least the American Military isn't scared of a few civilians with kids in flip flops.

In the Militaries opinion the MLCOA is the caravan will dwindle as it heads north and about 20% will make it to the border. They have also cited it is unlikely the migrants will be a violent threat nor are they likely to be smuggling drugs or human traffickers.

Ironically what they did say was more of a threat than the caravan was the ARMED red neck retards who want to play vigilante with their fucking guns who in the past have stolen national guard equipment...

In short your military is telling you your Pussy Grabber in Chief is a fear mongering scaredy cat who is using the military and spending millions of tax payers dollars on a false flag for the MT's, and you retards are eating it up hook line and sinker.

Either stop caravans with 1000 or 10,000 or have them with 100,000 and 1,000,000 next year. They're well funded from international sources for specific political purposes.

Stop acting like this is some joke please, or nothing more than an opportunity to blast the current POTUS.

It will be a joke to him until civil unrest gets out of control here, then he will be crying about his borders.

Spendulus

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Quote from: Flying Hellfish on November 01, 2018, 08:59:36 PM

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-administration-migrant-caravan-border-troops-1193694

Seems like at least the American Military isn't scared of a few civilians with kids in flip flops.

In the Militaries opinion the MLCOA is the caravan will dwindle as it heads north and about 20% will make it to the border. They have also cited it is unlikely the migrants will be a violent threat nor are they likely to be smuggling drugs or human traffickers.

Ironically what they did say was more of a threat than the caravan was the ARMED red neck retards who want to play vigilante with their fucking guns who in the past have stolen national guard equipment...

In short your military is telling you your Pussy Grabber in Chief is a fear mongering scaredy cat who is using the military and spending millions of tax payers dollars on a false flag for the MT's, and you retards are eating it up hook line and sinker.

Either stop caravans with 1000 or 10,000 or have them with 100,000 and 1,000,000 next year. They're well funded from international sources for specific political purposes.

Stop acting like this is some joke please, or nothing more than an opportunity to blast the current POTUS.

SirArthur

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Caravans of half naked Swedish girls never happen Embarrassed

Flying Hellfish

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https://www.newsweek.com/trump-administration-migrant-caravan-border-troops-1193694

Seems like at least the American Military isn't scared of a few civilians with kids in flip flops.

In the Militaries opinion the MLCOA is the caravan will dwindle as it heads north and about 20% will make it to the border. They have also cited it is unlikely the migrants will be a violent threat nor are they likely to be smuggling drugs or human traffickers.

Ironically what they did say was more of a threat than the caravan was the ARMED red neck retards who want to play vigilante with their fucking guns who in the past have stolen national guard equipment...

In short your military is telling you your Pussy Grabber in Chief is a fear mongering scaredy cat who is using the military and spending millions of tax payers dollars on a false flag for the MT's, and you retards are eating it up hook line and sinker.

Spendulus

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Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 01:17:18 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on October 31, 2018, 12:12:25 PM

Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 11:39:37 AM

Mexico is not safe because you know, drug cartels. Hence the need for the wall to protect US from this dangerous country.

Poverty and famine endanger lives. Legal definition of a refugee should be amended because a life is the most valuable thing one can lose.

90% of the dangerous areas in Mexico are by the US Border, where the drug cartels operate.

That's where you lose your car, your money, maybe your life.

Every drug cartel map I look at covers the entire country.

I doubt that it's just my bias, although anyone living in the four US states that border Mexico will have knowledge of their specific area and little knowledge of other areas.

But thinking back over friends of mine that travel regularly down there, the bad things they report are within 100 miles or so of the US border.

dogtana

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Quote from: Spendulus on October 31, 2018, 12:12:25 PM

Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 11:39:37 AM

Mexico is not safe because you know, drug cartels. Hence the need for the wall to protect US from this dangerous country.

Poverty and famine endanger lives. Legal definition of a refugee should be amended because a life is the most valuable thing one can lose.

90% of the dangerous areas in Mexico are by the US Border, where the drug cartels operate.

That's where you lose your car, your money, maybe your life.

Every drug cartel map I look at covers the entire country.

Spendulus

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Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 11:39:37 AM

Mexico is not safe because you know, drug cartels. Hence the need for the wall to protect US from this dangerous country.

Poverty and famine endanger lives. Legal definition of a refugee should be amended because a life is the most valuable thing one can lose.

90% of the dangerous areas in Mexico are by the US Border, where the drug cartels operate.

That's where you lose your car, your money, maybe your life.

dogtana

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Mexico is not safe because you know, drug cartels. Hence the need for the wall to protect US from this dangerous country.

Poverty and famine endanger lives. Legal definition of a refugee should be amended because a life is the most valuable thing one can lose.

And since the countries these people are fleeing from are so full of drug cartels, gangs and criminals, these people have every ground to fit the definition of a refugee. Trump has confirmed it himself.

af_newbie

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Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 09:14:55 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 09:03:56 AM

I have this thing called empathy, so I tend to put myself in someone else's shoes...

If I was living in some shit-hole country, where US economic policy and/or bombs have devastated my home land... I would think, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em", and walk my ass to the US with the rest of the caravan

What I don't understand is people who think they are entitled to live in a country, but others are not

Nobody says that. Anyone can apply for the immigration visa and immigrate to the US legally.

This is not immigration, this is refugee and asylum claims, totally different process and laws... there is nothing illegal about walking to the border and requesting asylum/refugee status... every claim will be checked by seasoned professionals who do this all the time

Are you sure about that?

There might some refugees fearing prosecution in Mexico in that crowd, I agree, but saying they are all refugees is disingenuous.

They would have to prove that not only they fear prosecution in their home countries but in Mexico as well since they are coming from Mexico.

If they were true refugees, they would have claimed their status in Mexico, unless they fear prosecution in Mexico as well.

We all know why they want to go to the US. To better their lives!!!

Unfortunately for them, the refugee route is not the way to go. Legal immigration is what they should be pursuing.

I cannot see how any judge with half a brain can grant them that status in the US.

BTW, Mexico is a signatory to the UN refugee convention.

af_newbie

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Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 09:31:00 AM

Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 09:28:07 AM

Quote from: squatz1 on October 31, 2018, 09:24:20 AM

You're not entitled to live anywhere besides where you have citizenship. I just don't understand how some people can defend illegals who are completetly trying to bypass the immigration system. That's a complete and utter slap in the face to people who have came to countries legally.

He wants to stop the Caravan because that's the law of the land, it's crazy thinking that a President can't do this sort of thing. I don't get it.

Why am I the only one who has heard of the Geneva Convention or The Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees?

There is nothing illegal about what they are doing... this is all within the law that has been followed for 70 years

Tell me, who is persecuting them?

+1

And why they did not claim their refugee status in Mexico? Were they not refugees in Mexico? Or they magically became refugees when they crossed the US border?

Mexico is a signatory to the UN refugee convention.

If I were a refugee from Honduras or El Salvador, I would claim my refugee status in Mexico. Same language, similar culture.

Flying Hellfish

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Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 09:16:08 AM

Hey smart guy, tell me. Have you ever considered what happens to The Great White North once the US collapses from being overwhelmed economically and civilly by not enforcing its borders? You think you can grow enough food up there in popsicle land to feed yourselves without our imports? Do you think for more than 3 seconds ahead ever?

Seems like I have more confidence in your country than you do because I am not concerned at all that the US will fall economically from immigration.

You can't scare me with the bogey man so I don't need to worry about something that isn't realistic!

TECSHARE

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Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 09:28:07 AM

Quote from: squatz1 on October 31, 2018, 09:24:20 AM

You're not entitled to live anywhere besides where you have citizenship. I just don't understand how some people can defend illegals who are completetly trying to bypass the immigration system. That's a complete and utter slap in the face to people who have came to countries legally.

He wants to stop the Caravan because that's the law of the land, it's crazy thinking that a President can't do this sort of thing. I don't get it.

Why am I the only one who has heard of the Geneva Convention or The Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees?

There is nothing illegal about what they are doing... this is all within the law that has been followed for 70 years

Tell me, who is persecuting them?

Moloch

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Quote from: squatz1 on October 31, 2018, 09:24:20 AM

You're not entitled to live anywhere besides where you have citizenship. I just don't understand how some people can defend illegals who are completetly trying to bypass the immigration system. That's a complete and utter slap in the face to people who have came to countries legally.

He wants to stop the Caravan because that's the law of the land, it's crazy thinking that a President can't do this sort of thing. I don't get it.

Why am I the only one who has heard of the Geneva Convention or The Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees?

There is nothing illegal about what they are doing... this is all within the law that has been followed for 70 years

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 09:03:56 AM

I have this thing called empathy, so I tend to put myself in someone else's shoes...

If I was living in some shit-hole country, where US economic policy and/or bombs have devastated my home land... I would think, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em", and walk my ass to the US with the rest of the caravan

What I don't understand is people who think they are entitled to live in a country, but others are not

Nobody says that. Anyone can apply for the immigration visa and immigrate to the US legally.

EXACTLY, You're not entitled to live anywhere besides where you have citizenship. I just don't understand how some people can defend illegals who are completetly trying to bypass the immigration system. That's a complete and utter slap in the face to people who have came to countries legally.

He wants to stop the Caravan because that's the law of the land, it's crazy thinking that a President can't do this sort of thing. I don't get it.

Moloch

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Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 09:16:08 AM

Millions of undocumented people have been flooding in for years.

Yup, every single US citizen who is not native american is an immigrant, or has an ancestor who immigrated to the US... the first illegal immigrants killed the majority of the native population, and declared that they owned the land

The truth is, more people have migrated from the US to Mexico, than from Mexico to the US in the past decade:

Quote from: http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

More Mexicans Leaving Than Coming to the U.S.

Net Loss of 140,000 from 2009 to 2014; Family Reunification Top Reason for Return

More Mexican immigrants have returned to Mexico from the U.S. than have migrated here since the end of the Great Recession, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of newly available government data from both countries. The same data sources also show the overall flow of Mexican immigrants between the two countries is at its smallest since the 1990s, mostly due to a drop in the number of Mexican immigrants coming to the U.S.

From 2009 to 2014, 1 million Mexicans and their families (including U.S.-born children) left the U.S. for Mexico, according to data from the 2014 Mexican National Survey of Demographic Dynamics (ENADID). U.S. census data for the same period show an estimated 870,000 Mexican nationals left Mexico to come to the U.S., a smaller number than the flow of families from the U.S. to Mexico.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 09:03:56 AM

I have this thing called empathy, so I tend to put myself in someone else's shoes...

If I was living in some shit-hole country, where US economic policy and/or bombs have devastated my home land... I would think, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em", and walk my ass to the US with the rest of the caravan

What I don't understand is people who think they are entitled to live in a country, but others are not

What entitles people? THE LAW.

I have empathy, and common sense. I have empathy for all the immigrants already here enjoying an improved standard of living, along with their friends and families, as well as my own who are going to suffer if immigration law is not enforced.

I also have the common sense to know this is not something that can just be done infinitely without negative effects. I can see how some one who thinks Communism is great would think we could though.

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on October 31, 2018, 08:59:32 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:56:15 AM

Yeah, diseases are just a conspiracy theory right?

When someone claims the caravan is carrying a disease that has been eradicated from the planet for almost 4 decades then yes I would call that a really really bad conspiracy theory, fake news and fear mongering.

Whats it like to live in a country where a few thousands civilians in flip flops are a threat to your national security. LOL you fucking pussies are scared to death of a few people...

Nice straw man. I didn't make any of those claims now you act as if I should answer for them.
Is Tuberculosis a conspiracy theory? Yeah who knew that communicable diseases are an issue in countries with almost no functional medical systems right?

Millions of undocumented people have been flooding in for years. "A few people", yeah you say the same thing,...every time...

Hey smart guy, tell me. Have you ever considered what happens to The Great White North once the US collapses from being overwhelmed economically and civilly by not enforcing its borders? You think you can grow enough food up there in popsicle land to feed yourselves without our imports? Do you think for more than 3 seconds ahead ever?

Moloch

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 09:03:56 AM

I have this thing called empathy, so I tend to put myself in someone else's shoes...

If I was living in some shit-hole country, where US economic policy and/or bombs have devastated my home land... I would think, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em", and walk my ass to the US with the rest of the caravan

What I don't understand is people who think they are entitled to live in a country, but others are not

Nobody says that. Anyone can apply for the immigration visa and immigrate to the US legally.

This is not immigration, this is refugee and asylum claims, totally different process and laws... there is nothing illegal about walking to the border and requesting asylum/refugee status... every claim will be checked by seasoned professionals who do this all the time

af_newbie

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Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 06:33:44 AM

So a few thousand I assume Christian, hopeful, grateful and wanting to work people want to reach US, a country with a population over 300 milion and a bad system of social aid.

Trump claims many among them are "very bad people", gang members, members of drug cartels etc etc. But gang members, members of drug cartels and criminals usually have better lives than average person in a 3rd world country, so why would they walk so far to a country where they wouldn't be able to conduct their business further?

So what are the real reasons Trump wants to stop the Caravan? Does he think US has a bad refugee/immivration situation compared to the rest of the world? What bad things will happen to the US? I suppose these people will be looking for "low" ranking jobs that most Americans won't do...

So what is the real problem here?

First of all, I would ask these people for documentation, ask them for tourist or immigration visas etc.

If they don't have visas or documents and claim a refugee status, the judge should be asking: "when did you become a refugee?", "why did you not claim a refugee status in Mexico?" or "so, in Mexico, you were not a refugee?" etc., the refugee cases can be denied based on the responses to these questions.

All of these people can apply for US immigration visas, go through the process, provide the background checks from their home countries etc.

The US has been too lenient to these people and if the US government does not firmly respond to this "caravan", they will have other "caravans" of 10,000+ people arriving every month as the word will spread that the US border is open for "business". Germany 2015 redux.

Moloch

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I have this thing called empathy, so I tend to put myself in someone else's shoes...

If I was living in some shit-hole country, where US economic policy and/or bombs have devastated my home land... I would think, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em", and walk my ass to the US with the rest of the caravan

What I don't understand is people who think they are entitled to live in a country, but others are not

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Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:56:15 AM

Yeah, diseases are just a conspiracy theory right?

When someone claims the caravan is carrying a disease that has been eradicated from the planet for almost 4 decades then yes I would call that a really really bad conspiracy theory, fake news and fear mongering.

Whats it like to live in a country where a few thousands civilians in flip flops are a threat to your national security. LOL you fucking pussies are scared to death of a few people...

dogtana

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Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 08:53:51 AM

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on October 31, 2018, 08:42:26 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:39:16 AM

Seeing as terrorism is a big problem, along with potential future conflict with Russia and China, unidentified persons slipping into the country would quite clearly constitute a threat to national security, among other things.

Don't forget smallpox, it would be such a shame if the caravan was able to bring that back into the US eh? That might threaten hundreds of millions of Americans!

If it was only smallpox I wouldn't be so worried. According to Fox News, they are carrying smallpox, leprosy, HIV, measles, pertussis, rubella, rabies, hepatitis A, influenza, tuberculosis, shigellosis, syphilis... I'm not sure how they are going to survive another 2 months on foot trekking through Mexico with all that

Trump and Fox News’s Caravan Hysteria Reaches a Fever Pitch | The Daily Show (time = 5:58)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqj1C9G3GBw&t=5m58s

What about ebola? Did they leave that one out?

TECSHARE

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Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 08:49:17 AM

You said "these people". You didn't say "some" of these and you do admit you think it is most of them. I wonder how you know that, how Trump knows that. Have you asked them, have you conducted a sociological research or is it just plain hatered and prejudice.

Yes? And? I am responsible for YOUR generalizations now? As if I don't explicitly say i don't mean all it should be assumed. No, I don't have to account for your interpretations of my words, just my words.

It is really simple. The places they come from have high rates of crime, poor education systems, poor medical systems, etc. IE they are pretty much guaranteed to be a liability. That is why we have a legal process for legally immigrating here. You keep screaming about racism if you like, your baseless infantile character attacks do not shame me, they shame you.

Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 08:53:51 AM

NIGHT TIME JOKE MEN ALL AGREE: ORANGEMAN BAD

ooo The Daily Show! There is a reputable source for you.

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on October 31, 2018, 08:42:26 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:39:16 AM

Seeing as terrorism is a big problem, along with potential future conflict with Russia and China, unidentified persons slipping into the country would quite clearly constitute a threat to national security, among other things.

Don't forget smallpox, it would be such a shame if the caravan was able to bring that back into the US eh? That might threaten hundreds of millions of Americans!

Yeah, diseases are just a conspiracy theory right?

Moloch

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Quote from: Flying Hellfish on October 31, 2018, 08:42:26 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:39:16 AM

Seeing as terrorism is a big problem, along with potential future conflict with Russia and China, unidentified persons slipping into the country would quite clearly constitute a threat to national security, among other things.

Don't forget smallpox, it would be such a shame if the caravan was able to bring that back into the US eh? That might threaten hundreds of millions of Americans!

If it was only smallpox I wouldn't be so worried. According to Fox News, they are carrying smallpox, leprosy, HIV, measles, pertussis, rubella, rabies, hepatitis A, influenza, tuberculosis, shigellosis, and syphilis (yes, they said all this, I queued the linked video)... I'm not sure how they are going to survive another 2 months on foot trekking through Mexico with all that

Trump and Fox News’s Caravan Hysteria Reaches a Fever Pitch | The Daily Show (time = 5:58)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqj1C9G3GBw&t=5m58s

dogtana

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Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:18:23 AM

Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 08:10:44 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:04:00 AM

Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 07:54:32 AM

So if they are poor and want a job, what is the problem with that? As far as I know, the US has a process for legal immigration. There are also job openings for "low" ranked jobs that Americans don't want to do. The color of skin doesn't affect ability to do those jobs.

Nothing. Except these people don't give a shit about the law. They don't want to immigrate legally, which takes years. They want to show up at the borders and be granted hand outs. Tell me, why is it they are going to California and not Texas when the trip is so much longer? Oh right, that's where they have the most handouts. Being poor is not an acceptable legal reason for granting of asylum. Their government is not persecuting them. General high levels of crime don't count either.

Some more real reasons to stop them:

-rule of law
-stop hostile infiltrators (what is the point of passports?)
-could be human sex traffickers among them using them as cover
-tax burden, both local and Federal
-if we don't stop them more and more will come
-pathogens, legal immigrants go thru a screening process
-lack of respect for our laws by entering illegally, making them criminals

How are you able to make sweeping generalisation like that? Is there any evidence that every single person is like that? Do you think these people are stupid thinking US is a promise land where everything is given out for free?

Not sure where I said every single person, but still willing to bet the vast majority of them. Leftists groups advertise the free stuff to them in their home country to try to import voters here. It is really irrelevant. Wanting a job is not a legal reason to claim asylum, neither is being poor or living in a high crime country. They don't have rights to asylum, even if they did, Mexico is a safe harbor country which has offered them asylum. By passing thru Mexico they have no right to claim asylum here, EVEN IF they had a valid claim.

You said "these people". You didn't say "some" of these and you do admit you think it is most of them. I wonder how you know that, how Trump knows that. Have you asked them, have you conducted a sociological research or is it just plain hatered and prejudice.

Flying Hellfish

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Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:39:16 AM

Seeing as terrorism is a big problem, along with potential future conflict with Russia and China, unidentified persons slipping into the country would quite clearly constitute a threat to national security, among other things.

Don't forget smallpox, it would be such a shame if the caravan was able to bring that back into the US eh? That might threaten hundreds of millions of Americans!

TECSHARE

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Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 08:30:20 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:18:23 AM

[snip]
They don't have rights to asylum, even if they did, Mexico is a safe harbor country which has offered them asylum. By passing thru Mexico they have no right to claim asylum here, EVEN IF they had a valid claim.

Some of them already applied for asylum... the average approval rate is 76%, with the last caravan which arrived in April being 93% acceptance

Quote from: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/10/26/asylum-explained-can-trump-shut-down-process-migrant-caravan/1775728002/

Trump and many GOP candidates have claimed that they are trying to illegally enter the country. But a look at the most recent caravan, which reached the U.S. border in April, paints a very different picture.

According to data and congressional testimony from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services officials, 122 members of that caravan were caught trying to illegally enter the country. But 401 members of the caravan presented themselves at ports of entry and requested asylum.

Federal officials interviewed those asylum-seekers and found 374 of them, or 93 percent, passed their initial "credible fear" test. That’s higher than the 76 percent approval rate that all asylum-seekers received in fiscal year 2018, according to Citizenship and Immigration Services data.

You believe what you want. Past behavior does not dictate future results, even if that is all accurate, and I doubt it.

None of that changes the fact that The President of The United States has a VERY BROAD authority under the constitution and otherwise to limit immigration of any kind if he feels it is a threat to national security.

Seeing as terrorism is a big problem, along with potential future conflict with Russia and China, unidentified persons slipping into the country would quite clearly constitute a threat to national security, among other things.

Moloch

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Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:18:23 AM

[propaganda snipped]
They don't have rights to asylum, even if they did, Mexico is a safe harbor country which has offered them asylum. By passing thru Mexico they have no right to claim asylum here, EVEN IF they had a valid claim.

There is no law which states a refugee in need of asylum must go to the nearest available country. Some of them already applied for asylum here... the average approval rate is 76%, with the last caravan which arrived in April being 93% acceptance

Quote from: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/10/26/asylum-explained-can-trump-shut-down-process-migrant-caravan/1775728002/

Trump and many GOP candidates have claimed that they are trying to illegally enter the country. But a look at the most recent caravan, which reached the U.S. border in April, paints a very different picture.

According to data and congressional testimony from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services officials, 122 members of that caravan were caught trying to illegally enter the country. But 401 members of the caravan presented themselves at ports of entry and requested asylum.

Federal officials interviewed those asylum-seekers and found 374 of them, or 93 percent, passed their initial "credible fear" test. That’s higher than the 76 percent approval rate that all asylum-seekers received in fiscal year 2018, according to Citizenship and Immigration Services data.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 08:10:44 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:04:00 AM

Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 07:54:32 AM

So if they are poor and want a job, what is the problem with that? As far as I know, the US has a process for legal immigration. There are also job openings for "low" ranked jobs that Americans don't want to do. The color of skin doesn't affect ability to do those jobs.

Nothing. Except these people don't give a shit about the law. They don't want to immigrate legally, which takes years. They want to show up at the borders and be granted hand outs. Tell me, why is it they are going to California and not Texas when the trip is so much longer? Oh right, that's where they have the most handouts. Being poor is not an acceptable legal reason for granting of asylum. Their government is not persecuting them. General high levels of crime don't count either.

Some more real reasons to stop them:

-rule of law
-stop hostile infiltrators (what is the point of passports?)
-could be human sex traffickers among them using them as cover
-tax burden, both local and Federal
-if we don't stop them more and more will come
-pathogens, legal immigrants go thru a screening process
-lack of respect for our laws by entering illegally, making them criminals

How are you able to make sweeping generalisation like that? Is there any evidence that every single person is like that? Do you think these people are stupid thinking US is a promise land where everything is given out for free?

Not sure where I said every single person, but still willing to bet the vast majority of them. Leftists groups advertise the free stuff to them in their home country to try to import voters here. It is really irrelevant. Wanting a job is not a legal reason to claim asylum, neither is being poor or living in a high crime country. They don't have rights to asylum, even if they did, Mexico is a safe harbor country which has offered them asylum. By passing thru Mexico they have no right to claim asylum here, EVEN IF they had a valid claim.

dogtana

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Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:04:00 AM

Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 07:54:32 AM

So if they are poor and want a job, what is the problem with that? As far as I know, the US has a process for legal immigration. There are also job openings for "low" ranked jobs that Americans don't want to do. The color of skin doesn't affect ability to do those jobs.

Nothing. Except these people don't give a shit about the law. They don't want to immigrate legally, which takes years. They want to show up at the borders and be granted hand outs. Tell me, why is it they are going to California and not Texas when the trip is so much longer? Oh right, that's where they have the most handouts. Being poor is not an acceptable legal reason for granting of asylum. Their government is not persecuting them. General high levels of crime don't count either.

Some more real reasons to stop them:

-rule of law
-stop hostile infiltrators (what is the point of passports?)
-could be human sex traffickers among them using them as cover
-tax burden, both local and Federal
-if we don't stop them more and more will come
-pathogens, legal immigrants go thru a screening process
-lack of respect for our laws by entering illegally, making them criminals

How are you able to make sweeping generalisation like that? Is there any evidence that every single person is like that? Do you think these people are stupid thinking US is a promise land where everything is given out for free?

Flying Hellfish

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Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 07:41:24 AM

If you notice, being poor and wanting a job is not on that list.

Being poor/wanting a job and being afraid for their lives at home are NOT mutually exclusive...

TECSHARE

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Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 07:54:32 AM

So if they are poor and want a job, what is the problem with that? As far as I know, the US has a process for legal immigration. There are also job openings for "low" ranked jobs that Americans don't want to do. The color of skin doesn't affect ability to do those jobs.

Nothing. Except these people don't give a shit about the law. They don't want to immigrate legally, which takes years. They want to show up at the borders and be granted hand outs. Tell me, why is it they are going to California and not Texas when the trip is so much longer? Oh right, that's where they have the most handouts. Being poor is not an acceptable legal reason for granting of asylum. Their government is not persecuting them. General high levels of crime don't count either.

Some more real reasons to stop them:

-rule of law
-stop hostile infiltrators (what is the point of passports?)
-could be human sex traffickers among them using them as cover
-tax burden, both local and Federal
-if we don't stop them more and more will come
-pathogens, legal immigrants go thru a screening process
-lack of respect for our laws by entering illegally, making them criminals

dogtana

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Activity: 845

Merit: 56

So if they are poor and want a job, what is the problem with that? As far as I know, the US has a process for legal immigration. There are also job openings for "low" ranked jobs that Americans don't want to do. The color of skin doesn't affect ability to do those jobs. The situtation of some of these people may not fit the definition of circumstances to gain refugee status but there are other completely legal ways to enter a country. And with similar values these people will want nothing more than to integrate into American society.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 07:28:44 AM

Trump hates colored people and poor people... these are both, so he hates them double

Trump is breaking international law... specifically, The Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, also known as the 1951 Refugee Convention
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees#Definition_of_refugee

A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.

I really hate to see Trump destroy international laws... I consider that a crime against humanity

If you notice, being poor and wanting a job is not on that list.

Moloch

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Trump hates colored people and poor people... these are both, so he hates them double

Trump is breaking international law... specifically, The Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, also known as the 1951 Refugee Convention
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees#Definition_of_refugee

A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.

I really hate to see Trump destroy international laws... I consider that a crime against humanity

Flying Hellfish

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Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 06:33:44 AM

So what is the real problem here?

It's called political red meat for his racist base. Quite simple really.

Consider the fact that a Fox news commentator claimed the caravan was carrying smallpox...

In case anyone is wondering smallpox was eradicated from the planet almost 40 years ago!!

dogtana

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So a few thousand I assume Christian, hopeful, grateful and wanting to work people want to reach US, a country with a population over 300 milion and a bad system of social aid.

Trump claims many among them are "very bad people", gang members, members of drug cartels etc etc. But gang members, members of drug cartels and criminals usually have better lives than average person in a 3rd world country, so why would they walk so far to a country where they wouldn't be able to conduct their business further?

So what are the real reasons Trump wants to stop the Caravan? Does he think US has a bad refugee/immivration situation compared to the rest of the world? What bad things will happen to the US? I suppose these people will be looking for "low" ranking jobs that most Americans won't do...

So what is the real problem here?

Topic: What are the real reasons Trump wants to stop the Caravan? (Read 472 times)