Topic: What do you want from a coin switching scrypt/sha pool? (Read 1240 times)

I like the idea from earilier up saying they like the idea of keeping some coins and letting the pool auto trade the rest for BTC, but then i'm also a fan of not having to log into anything, just point and mine.

So the two ideas dont really work together thou.

Then yes, we have build a bot for that.

The point of a bot (or script, whatever one calls it) is not for "trading" or gambling with people's money, but is to prevent such flood by selling in low volumes, multiple times throughout the day.

Hi sonikku13

Thank you for the input. Here comes a bit of a long answer, please bare with me.

I know your probably already know this, but I just want to post these two quotes from wiki and one from mulipool, just for anyone else who does not know what the difference is between PPS and other approaches to mining pools.

From wiki: P2Pool mining nodes work on a chain of shares similar to Bitcoin’s blockchain. When a block is found, the reward is divided among the most recent shares in this share-blockchain. Like the puddinpop and Luke-Jr approaches, p2pool pays via generation.

From wiki: The Pay-per-Share (PPS) approach, first described by BitPenny, is to offer an instant flat payout for each share that is solved. The payout is offered from the pool's existing balance and can therefore be withdrawn immediately, without waiting for a block to be solved or confirmed. The possibility of cheating the miners by the pool operator and by timing attacks is thus completely eliminated. This method results in the least possible variance for miners while transferring all risk to the pool operator. The resulting possibility of loss for the server is offset by setting a payout lower than the full expected value.

From multipool: "this is not a PPS (Pay-Per-Share) pool. Pay-per-Share pools generally charge a much higher fee, in the neighborhood of 3-5%. This pool uses a modified Proportional scoring system. Your balance will not update until a block is found."

Basically, if we were to do PPS, we would have to take a fee, or at least hold on to some of the coins for a while, as a kind of insurance. Since we want to be free and we want the miners to get the most value from their mining power, we have decided for now, not to go with PPS.

Having said that, one of the big advantages of PPS, is the transparency, and that is a major selling point for us. Quote about PPS from above. "The possibility of cheating the miners by the pool operator and by timing attacks is thus completely eliminated.". However, as important as transparency is, it comes in after our #1 priority which is maximizing profits for the miners. And a fee is less profits, which is why we want to avoid it.  

Once we launch, I will make a post on our forum, dedicated to discussing this issue. If there is a strong demand for PPS and people are willing to leave a % of their coin as an insurance or pay a fee to cover the risk, we could implement PPS mining down the road. But in the early stages, it will be "Pay Per Work"

Ps. I can assure everyone, that we will do everything possible to show the miners what is happening with their coin, until they are paid out. We will post all the transactions from wallets to exchanges, the exchanges rates and so on.

Thank you for your input.



1. Yes, we are working on optimizing this right now.

2. Yes. we are working on optimizing this right now. There are a couple of different ways to go with this. Using multiple exchanges to help avoid an instant "sell order" flood is apparently the most effective method for the time being. Good trade bots helps as well, but trading is an art that very few people can do with any kind of profitable consistency. To put it in simple terms. We don't want to gamble with other peoples money.

Thank you for the input.

Honestly, if it was possible that the pool could be PPS, I'd be all over it.

Sorry if I sounded harsh or a jerk. Very glad you consider my view.  

In addition to what Wipeout2097 said:

1. Your pool needs to have the ability to divide its hashing power between coins, dynamically shifting hash power as markets and difficulty dictate.

2. You need to trade well, probably better than well, manually and automated/trade bot whatever.

As an example we were mining mooncoin a couple days ago while it was nowhere near the most profitable coin. A couple hours later it reached #2-3 maybe higher (via price, not just a big diff drop) . He sold, we profited. What happened? I don't know and I'm not asking.


 

I did not take any middlecoin hate from your message, but yes, lots of functions and stats is not their selling point. And multipool lacks the auto trade for sure. I set my multipool up to auto payout and auto trade against an exchange. It can be done, but it's a pain, and you get stuck with lots of small amounts of coins, you cant get exchanged.



I think this is just about the auto switching doing proper maths. Obviously there is no point in switching to a pool, where there is little to no chance of getting a payout unless you mine it for a very long time. But there is where p2 pool is good. Even if we point a very little mining power on a coin like bitcoin, we will get a payout relative to the hashes we solved. But you can be sure that we will be testing this and not wasting mining power on something that gives no payout.


We are working hard on reaching all the goals you mention here.

About not letting people know what we are mining, I don't know if I fully agree, but I do think you have a valid point and we will consider it. Thank you for your feedback.

What is needed for coin-switching pools is to take SERIOUSLY, what is mentioned on the middlecoin FAQ.

Pool operators that cater for newbie miners (like me still) or who loves statistics and cute websites do otherwise. Meanwhile they destroy coins, the value and the mining scene. They offer profits to someone else's trading bots, instead of to miners. The ones that are into such mining scene for more than a few weeks, get this crystal clear.

Besides what impacts profit, I don't want anything. Basically what is required for having:
- Nearby stable low latency pool
- No connection loss on coin switching
- Low rate of rejects/orphans/discarded
- Good choice of coin
- Very good trading bot/algo

Everything else is a waste of your time and effort. For me, you don't even need a website.

Edit: if you want to offer transparency, you can show on the website the coins you mined in the past, no need to show what you're mining NOW.

Sure. My experience with one of the multi mining pools i used to mine on SHA256. Pool calculates current most profitable coin and switch all users to mine the coin. But at some point the most profitable coin is bitcoin, which is impossible to find a block with a current number of miners. Or PPC coin, which has quite big difficulty and very low chance finding a block. I don't see any reason to spend 30 minutes digging bitcoin or PPC with no chance to find a single block, instead of doing DEM or UNO meanwhile.

  Middlecoin is where I mine most of the time (my rigs are pointed there right now).  I like almost everything about it.  If it seemed like I was targeting anything or attempting to put down  a service that was unintentional.  I was only pointing out that I would like to have the option of having all the benefits of middlecoin but be able to choose which coins I want not autotraded.  I realize that this can be done on Multipool, however doing this on multipool still requires me to do all the trading of the coins I want exchanged, and the auto-sell feature on cryptsy is never as profitable as middlecoin.

That is excellent advice. I have been mining on middlecoin myself for some time now, and I have been following that forum closely.

Middlecoin is obviously your main target here.

So if i was you, i'd read their forum and glean as much information from all the complains and praise on there aswell.

 

  This is pretty much what I meant yes.  I like having my coins exchanged to BTC each day (middlecoin) however right now I am also mining doge to hold onto on another pool.  It would be good to only have to mine at one pool and select which coins are auto-exchanged and which are not.  So for instance middlecoin is mining doge,LTC,LOT, and a couple other basically right now.  I would like to have autoexchange done for everything accept doge, and just get the doge coins my shares have earned. To do with as I please.  

  Make sense?  This is not really possible right now, so I am load balancing 2 pools.

  Phad

Thanks, yes we will have a twitter feed for sure.

About constant changes, it's something that we will take in to consideration when building the coin switching routines. It's all about what is most profitable for the miners as a group.


Ok. Can you share why you don't want to mine some specific coins? Are they "political" reasons, or because you personally don't think they are profitable. Or do you have some coins that your miners do poorly on, and if so, why do you think that is?


I may be reading you wrong, but is that not what multipool does? You can chose what to mine and how you wan't it out. (except they can't exchange to btc)

Also, when you say "payout would include non exchanged coins?", what you are saying is that you would want whatever was exchanged, out in BTC, and if you chose not to exchange say doge coins, you would just get those coins out as doge coins?

Thanks.

The option to  hold a certain coin when the user thinks it may be beneficial to do so.  For instance right now I may want to choose to hold my doge and not sell.  This could be done by the pool or better yet have the option to mine but not exchange certain coins, and then the dailt payout would include BTC for exchanged coins and the non exchanged coins.

  Phad.

List of altcoins available for a switch mining should be editable by user. Say i don't want to mine ASC or PPC even thou it is most profitable right now.
Making a custom list of favorite coins to mine would be the best option for me.

Not having the coin switch every couple of mins.

Being paid in BTC is nice, the other coins isnt so high on the list.

Being told whats going on with the pool the whole time. so twitter updates and web updates.

Hi. I have a company and we are working on a coin switching scrypt/sha profit focused auto coin switching mining pool.

All the the bellow information can be subject to change, but this is the plan for now (in this very early stage).


We use p2 for now.

There will be full transparency. We will show what we mine and why, what we hold at what exchange and what we trade it for and everything like that will be publicly available on the site. There will be a forum and a troll box. The company and the people behind it will also be made public. Expect full transparency.

Auto payouts will be once a day, and manual payout will be optional (for a small fee or free if you donate).

There will be no fee for automatic payouts (except for the exchange fee that the exchange will take). We plan to make it so donating unlocks features, like free manual payouts, payouts in other coins, more statistics, sms /mail alerts and updates and much more.

Payouts will be in BTC and LTC at first. (other coins will be added for donating users)

We will work intensely on maximizing the bitcoins per mhash ratio. We wan't to be the most profitable coin switching pool. This is a top priority.

Security and stability will be a top priority as well. DDOS protection, SSL (https), cloudflare, load balancing and so on.

We have plans to mine multiple different coins at the same time, and pay everyone the same, based on mhash supplied, and not by what specific coin they mined. We hope and think this will allow us to be more profitable than pools like middlecoin and multipool, that only mine 1 coin, and then flood the market with that coin (as we see it). This does however present some problems, as some may get a higher mhash on some coins, than on others, and we are very curious to find a fair solution for this, that will work in everyone's favor.

We hope to be able to implement payout in old world money, but this has proven top be a bit challenging. But we are working on it.

We will have mining servers in the US and EU for starters.

We are very curious to know what people want from a coin switching profit pool, besides max profit and lots of statistics, stability and security.

Please write any suggestions or comments or advice. We have very skilled programmers, so nothing is impossible. Any advice, ideas, warnings and hints will be very much appreciated.