What does the Chinese market now consist of?

andrei56

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Quote from: bitcad4u on December 16, 2017, 01:32:15 PM

Quote from: ladydark on December 16, 2017, 12:57:00 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on December 03, 2017, 07:44:33 AM

They're still mining like mad, there must be many thousands of people who hold some BTC still.

How are they trading? Is there masses of OTC and P2P? Is it possible for them to get on Korean and Japanese exchanges?

Many predicted that after their big fat congress they'd reinstate some sort of exchange functionality. That doesn't appear to have happened.

Will they go for a full clamp down including attempting to squash non centralised trading?

Chinese people have shifted their trading activities to countersales.They do P2P trading and they use telegram chats for such trading activities.Since telegram chat seems to be encrypted,they find it safe to use it.

All the people not give up making fortune just because some law passed and China where making a lot of money with bitcoin and they are not going and going with out a fight and when you take into account what is happened in Japan.Many people in china involved in trading by unknowing to the government.

Yeah it would be dumb to give up, the Chinese have been making a fortune with bitcoin for a lot of time and they are not going to simply accept the decision from their government, as long as there is money to be made people are going to find a way around the rules.

stompix

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Quote from: magneto on December 12, 2017, 02:11:27 AM

Quote from: gentlemand on December 03, 2017, 07:44:33 AM

They're still mining like mad, there must be many thousands of people who hold some BTC still.

How are they trading? Is there masses of OTC and P2P? Is it possible for them to get on Korean and Japanese exchanges?

Many predicted that after their big fat congress they'd reinstate some sort of exchange functionality. That doesn't appear to have happened.

Will they go for a full clamp down including attempting to squash non centralised trading?

Looking at the amount of trade offers on localbitcoins that involves the payment method fo eiher wechat pay, chinese national bank transfer, or alipay, it is clear to me that a lot of people in china has moved to p2p trading.

Also wouldn't be surprising at all if people now had wechat groups that specialise in selling/buying of bitcoin.

Of course, if they have connections they can use the other asian exchanges as well in Japan/Korea. But to my knowledge that is not a big trend. So i would say that majority of volume has simply gone p2p, and china is still with us "invisibly".

https://coin.dance/volume/localbitcoins/CNY/BTC
Sorry but I don't see that volume, there was a quick rise to 4000 btc from 1000 but it is slowly back to normal levels.
Also the largest volume was in March so there is no correlation with the ban.

My theory is that the big whales have either move their trading accounts abroad or they just quit, they will not risk their fortune in China.
Moving millions via national bank transfers in China? That is asking to be part in a one of their stadium mass "corrections".
The small ones are just doing playing pennies on wechat and shaking in fear from knocks at the door.

But I doubt that trading right now in all of China comes to even 1% of the numbers Huobi and the rest were lying to the world with.

bitcad4u

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Quote from: nl247 on December 05, 2017, 06:16:09 AM

Quote from: dead_m92 on December 03, 2017, 09:46:52 AM

Chineses are like the whole population of bitcoin, and that is it, i am not wrong about it.

I read a chart in where it said that China has more than 35% of the total miners that are mining our blocks and our transactions at the moment.

That is why bitcoin crashed a lot during the mess with bitcoin cash, because they all switched to mine that coin.-

Without them, we are almost dead, because the other 65% of the hashrate is not enough to process all the other transactions/blocks smoothly.

Sure, China has some of the largest rigs when it comes to mining even more than the percentage you stated, but trust bro, they do not have any hold on bitcoin and even when they thought they did, I guess the market really proved them wrong. The citizens are doing well for themselves and I am sure even the traders have been able to find solace in the Japanese market which is why I am sure it is booming as the highest trading volume right now. However, contrary to what you have said, without them we are not dead, and worst that would ever happen is the difficulty level of bitcoin dropping which is a good thing to me.

Will they go for a full clamp down including attempting to squash non centralised trading?
Chinese people have shifted their trading activities to countersales. They do P2P trading and they use telegram chats for such trading activities.Since telegram chat seems to be encrypted,they find it safe to use it.

bitcad4u

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Quote from: ladydark on December 16, 2017, 12:57:00 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on December 03, 2017, 07:44:33 AM

They're still mining like mad, there must be many thousands of people who hold some BTC still.

How are they trading? Is there masses of OTC and P2P? Is it possible for them to get on Korean and Japanese exchanges?

Many predicted that after their big fat congress they'd reinstate some sort of exchange functionality. That doesn't appear to have happened.

Will they go for a full clamp down including attempting to squash non centralised trading?

Chinese people have shifted their trading activities to countersales.They do P2P trading and they use telegram chats for such trading activities.Since telegram chat seems to be encrypted,they find it safe to use it.

All the people not give up making fortune just because some law passed and China where making a lot of money with bitcoin and they are not going and going with out a fight and when you take into account what is happened in Japan.Many people in china involved in trading by unknowing to the government.

ladydark

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Quote from: gentlemand on December 03, 2017, 07:44:33 AM

They're still mining like mad, there must be many thousands of people who hold some BTC still.

How are they trading? Is there masses of OTC and P2P? Is it possible for them to get on Korean and Japanese exchanges?

Many predicted that after their big fat congress they'd reinstate some sort of exchange functionality. That doesn't appear to have happened.

Will they go for a full clamp down including attempting to squash non centralised trading?

Chinese people have shifted their trading activities to countersales.They do P2P trading and they use telegram chats for such trading activities.Since telegram chat seems to be encrypted,they find it safe to use it.They are not ready to give up.The only change happened is that the miners find it difficult to sell their mined bitcoins in the market since exchanges have been shut down.

andrei56

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Quote from: redsun114 on December 09, 2017, 03:13:18 PM

Pretty sure the JPY market that has boomed recently with crypto trading is as a result of Chinese traders moving to the bitcoin market. Sure, I believe it is going to be easy for them since they are in the same region and they can just get themselves running without any issue. If they are so scared that bitcoin would be a problem for their currency, then that is really their palaver and I really see how they want to keep up doing that.

That is probably what happened after all people are not going to give up making a fortune just because some laws were passed, the Chinese were making a lot of money with bitcoin and they are not going to go down without a fight, and when you take into account what has happened in japan it is not really a mystery why the price of bitcoin is so high.

magneto

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Quote from: gentlemand on December 03, 2017, 07:44:33 AM

They're still mining like mad, there must be many thousands of people who hold some BTC still.

How are they trading? Is there masses of OTC and P2P? Is it possible for them to get on Korean and Japanese exchanges?

Many predicted that after their big fat congress they'd reinstate some sort of exchange functionality. That doesn't appear to have happened.

Will they go for a full clamp down including attempting to squash non centralised trading?

Looking at the amount of trade offers on localbitcoins that involves the payment method fo eiher wechat pay, chinese national bank transfer, or alipay, it is clear to me that a lot of people in china has moved to p2p trading.

Also wouldn't be surprising at all if people now had wechat groups that specialise in selling/buying of bitcoin.

Of course, if they have connections they can use the other asian exchanges as well in Japan/Korea. But to my knowledge that is not a big trend. So i would say that majority of volume has simply gone p2p, and china is still with us "invisibly".

andrei56

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Quote from: gentlemand on December 03, 2017, 07:44:33 AM

They're still mining like mad, there must be many thousands of people who hold some BTC still.

How are they trading? Is there masses of OTC and P2P? Is it possible for them to get on Korean and Japanese exchanges?

Many predicted that after their big fat congress they'd reinstate some sort of exchange functionality. That doesn't appear to have happened.

Will they go for a full clamp down including attempting to squash non centralised trading?

It is difficult to know but I suppose that those holding crypto in china do not really need their bitcoin right now, so in a way they are forced to hold their bitcoin until the situation in their country changes or they decide to go around the law and maybe sell their bitcoin for a discount in other countries.

1Referee

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Quote from: wuvdoll on December 11, 2017, 10:55:13 AM

I am sure most of the traders ended up moving to neighboring markets which I am sure is the reason why BTC-JPY market is on top now.

Correct. It's the most logical step for people there to follow considering how open and nearby Japan is. Also, Huobi is cooperating with a Japanese firm to launch YEN nominated exchanges, which again confirms that Chinese players are shifting to Japan, and from there eventually spread out further over the Asian continent. I am sure that Japan and other countries in the Asian continent will look happily forward to this, considering that it potentially means more job opportunities and capital being invested in there. China is just tackling itself instead of keeping a potential threat to their economy outside. People will always have their ways of investing and using Bitcoin - nothing can take that privilege away from them.

wuvdoll

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Quote from: ImHash on December 03, 2017, 07:57:15 AM

They are trying to stop their people from cashing out in local currency, Cashing out Yuan will cause inflation for them, People now are trying to cash out in other countries to get dollar in exchange, They are in a war with the west. War of the coins Cheesy

I really want to see how it won't end up causing inflation still for them. China is just one controlling freaks and they have always been known to always come up with strict policies and I really do not know what they really want to drive at with them trying to make themselves feel good with their currency.

I am sure most of the traders ended up moving to neighboring markets which I am sure is the reason why BTC-JPY market is on top now.

redsun114

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Pretty sure the JPY market that has boomed recently with crypto trading is as a result of Chinese traders moving to the bitcoin market. Sure, I believe it is going to be easy for them since they are in the same region and they can just get themselves running without any issue. If they are so scared that bitcoin would be a problem for their currency, then that is really their palaver and I really see how they want to keep up doing that.

Whosdaddy

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Quote from: HasHe on December 03, 2017, 09:23:57 AM

Quote from: gentlemand on December 03, 2017, 07:44:33 AM

They're still mining like mad, there must be many thousands of people who hold some BTC still.

How are they trading? Is there masses of OTC and P2P? Is it possible for them to get on Korean and Japanese exchanges?

Many predicted that after their big fat congress they'd reinstate some sort of exchange functionality. That doesn't appear to have happened.

Will they go for a full clamp down including attempting to squash non centralised trading?

Chinese are not mad.Even though,bitcoin has been laid severe restrictions in china,chinese investors and miners know very well the value of bitcoin in the outer world.Now,at present,they are selling in counter sales P2P and also traders use telegram for communication.They have not given up.They hope that the present situation in their country would soon change.I think that china could not crash non centralized trading.

Obviously! These are some smart guys that will always find a way for them-selves. China cannot ban bitcoin and they really wish they can but their hands are tied and the only thing they can do is to restrict the activities. That is not really making any impact still and now they got served what they deserve.

If they like, they should keep on and I was reading on the news few days ago on how they feel bitcoin will not last. This is not their first and won't be their last. If they feel bitcoin is a threat to them, it is obvious their citizens like you said, are not dumb enough to miss a chance for themselves and if it means to relocate, they will.

nl247

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Quote from: dead_m92 on December 03, 2017, 09:46:52 AM

Chineses are like the whole population of bitcoin, and that is it, i am not wrong about it.

I read a chart in where it said that China has more than 35% of the total miners that are mining our blocks and our transactions at the moment.

That is why bitcoin crashed a lot during the mess with bitcoin cash, because they all switched to mine that coin.-

Without them, we are almost dead, because the other 65% of the hashrate is not enough to process all the other transactions/blocks smoothly.

Sure, China has some of the largest rigs when it comes to mining even more than the percentage you stated, but trust bro, they do not have any hold on bitcoin and even when they thought they did, I guess the market really proved them wrong. The citizens are doing well for themselves and I am sure even the traders have been able to find solace in the Japanese market which is why I am sure it is booming as the highest trading volume right now. However, contrary to what you have said, without them we are not dead, and worst that would ever happen is the difficulty level of bitcoin dropping which is a good thing to me.

atjiat

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Quote from: jagster on December 04, 2017, 01:32:14 PM

Quote from: ImHash on December 03, 2017, 07:57:15 AM

War of the coins Cheesy

*Continuously screams like Datoka Fanning*

I bet a lot of Chinese citizens don't care and will continue on. Can't stop this party.

It's definitely about wealth control. The US keeps accusing them of currency manipulation. Crypto-currency manipulation should be right up their alley.

I am also surprised by the Chinese market and Chinese citizens. After the Chinese government has made a problem, the Chinese market is still very good and promising.

TERA2

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jagster

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Quote from: ImHash on December 03, 2017, 07:57:15 AM

War of the coins Cheesy

*Continuously screams like Datoka Fanning*

I bet a lot of Chinese citizens don't care and will continue on. Can't stop this party.

It's definitely about wealth control. The US keeps accusing them of currency manipulation. Crypto-currency manipulation should be right up their alley.

DustyRah

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The goal of Chinese government is to bring wealth into the country but not allow it leave. Mining brings in wealth. Allowing users to buy Bitcoins with RMB has a huge risk of that Bitcoin leaving the country and getting converted to another currency, basically money leaving the country.

They are on top of everything including the mining activity and they are quite happy with the Bitcoins being generated in China.

They do have unofficial channels to buy and sell Bitcoins so its not an issue for miners to sell the coins for RMB.

Lieldoryn

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I'm sure that even if Chinese miners are not to process transactions and mine coins that won't be a problem for bitcoin. The price of production will go up dramatically and there are many who take on their power. At the big desire always it is possible to increase the block size. Bitcoin blackmail will not work.

thecodebear

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Quote from: dead_m92 on December 03, 2017, 09:46:52 AM

Chineses are like the whole population of bitcoin, and that is it, i am not wrong about it.

I read a chart in where it said that China has more than 35% of the total miners that are mining our blocks and our transactions at the moment.

That is why bitcoin crashed a lot during the mess with bitcoin cash, because they all switched to mine that coin.-

Without them, we are almost dead, because the other 65% of the hashrate is not enough to process all the other transactions/blocks smoothly.

It seems you don't understand how Bitcoin works. Block mining would only slow down until the next difficulty change. The hashrate is not required to process the actual transactions, only one miner ever actually processes each block - meaning that one miner could run the whole network by themselves, the hashrate has to do with keeping the block time to about 10 minutes, that's all.

littlebill16

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Quote from: Kronos21 on December 03, 2017, 09:57:13 AM

Quote from: littlebill16 on December 03, 2017, 09:37:50 AM

I think that many are trading using VPNs to access sites in different countries or even just selling to other whales directly who then sell on another foreign exchange, given bitcoins anonymity there must be many ways for them to get around it.

VPN is a weak defense. If you wish, you can always discover. For example in Russia all the services that offer VPN services are required to provide information about these users. It seems to me that you are too trusting. Online safety is a myth. You need to be able to defend their interests openly.

I don't personally do it as I'm not based in China but it wouldn't surprise me, not to mention that people could probably create their own VPN if they wanted to. It's not something I'd risk but for many in China bitcoin is probably a huge amount of their wealth given the relatively low incomes.

BrewMaster

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that is the question that i also had in mind ever since price went past $10k. people seem to be interested only in the ban and how that affected bitcoin (calling i the end of bitcoin, even topics asking "is bitcoin finished"!!!).

when they closed the exchanges, foreign ones from Korea and Japan and also the localbitcoins volume had a big increase so my guess is, most of the traders migrated elsewhere.

additionally i saw their exchanges still are operational but moved their servers and domains outside of China. BTCC,... they may be handling a big part of the volume too.

Torque

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China PBoC allows the miners to continue, as long as the sell/give bitcoin OTC directly to their oligarchs. In return they are allowed to mine using cheap electricity. Win win.

They don't want the Chinese people to benefit from Bitcoin, only their state wealthy elite. They allow the people to have WeChat Pay for digital direct payments and believe that will suffice.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

gentlemand

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Quote from: dead_m92 on December 03, 2017, 09:46:52 AM

Chineses are like the whole population of bitcoin, and that is it, i am not wrong about it.

I read a chart in where it said that China has more than 35% of the total miners that are mining our blocks and our transactions at the moment.

That is why bitcoin crashed a lot during the mess with bitcoin cash, because they all switched to mine that coin.-

Without them, we are almost dead, because the other 65% of the hashrate is not enough to process all the other transactions/blocks smoothly.

It's probably 60-70% and Bitcoin would survive just fine if they all buggered off permanently. It would slow down for a few weeks and then adjust until all the lost miners were made up for.

Kronos21

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Quote from: littlebill16 on December 03, 2017, 09:37:50 AM

I think that many are trading using VPNs to access sites in different countries or even just selling to other whales directly who then sell on another foreign exchange, given bitcoins anonymity there must be many ways for them to get around it.

VPN is a weak defense. If you wish, you can always discover. For example in Russia all the services that offer VPN services are required to provide information about these users. It seems to me that you are too trusting. Online safety is a myth. You need to be able to defend their interests openly.

dead_m92

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Chineses are like the whole population of bitcoin, and that is it, i am not wrong about it.

I read a chart in where it said that China has more than 35% of the total miners that are mining our blocks and our transactions at the moment.

That is why bitcoin crashed a lot during the mess with bitcoin cash, because they all switched to mine that coin.-

Without them, we are almost dead, because the other 65% of the hashrate is not enough to process all the other transactions/blocks smoothly.

littlebill16

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I think that many are trading using VPNs to access sites in different countries or even just selling to other whales directly who then sell on another foreign exchange, given bitcoins anonymity there must be many ways for them to get around it.

HasHe

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Quote from: gentlemand on December 03, 2017, 07:44:33 AM

They're still mining like mad, there must be many thousands of people who hold some BTC still.

How are they trading? Is there masses of OTC and P2P? Is it possible for them to get on Korean and Japanese exchanges?

Many predicted that after their big fat congress they'd reinstate some sort of exchange functionality. That doesn't appear to have happened.

Will they go for a full clamp down including attempting to squash non centralised trading?

Chinese are not mad.Even though,bitcoin has been laid severe restrictions in china,chinese investors and miners know very well the value of bitcoin in the outer world.Now,at present,they are selling in counter sales P2P and also traders use telegram for communication.They have not given up.They hope that the present situation in their country would soon change.I think that china could not crash non centralized trading.

Chris!

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I've been wondering this too. They must either be so well off at this point that they're just waiting it out or they just really don't need fiat because Bitcoin is popular enough. I'm asking they just have fiat to live off of though.

gentlemand

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Quote from: davis196 on December 03, 2017, 08:10:38 AM

The situation in China is absurd,because the government and PBOC banned cryptocurrency trading,but didn`t ban mining.The chinese government has two options to choose from:
1.Ban cryptocurrency mining.
2.Allow cryptocurrency trading and the ICOs.
Anyway,i think that the worldwide crypto market is in a better shape without the chinese exchange platforms,because they were manipulating their trading volumes and were trying to manipulate the prices.

Yes, I think we wouldn't be anywhere near where we are now if the zero fee exchanges had carried on as they were.

Allowing mining in theory means that their useless electricity is being exchanged for foreign currency so there's less incentive to murder it. It's the average citizen having full control over their own money that's the biggest problem to them.

Miners will have to be more creative in finding buyers but potentially they might be selling abroad.

davis196

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Quote from: gentlemand on December 03, 2017, 07:44:33 AM

They're still mining like mad, there must be many thousands of people who hold some BTC still.

How are they trading? Is there masses of OTC and P2P? Is it possible for them to get on Korean and Japanese exchanges?

Many predicted that after their big fat congress they'd reinstate some sort of exchange functionality. That doesn't appear to have happened.

Will they go for a full clamp down including attempting to squash non centralised trading?

The situation in China is absurd,because the government and PBOC banned cryptocurrency trading,but didn`t ban mining.The chinese government has two options to choose from:
1.Ban cryptocurrency mining.
2.Allow cryptocurrency trading and the ICOs.
Anyway,i think that the worldwide crypto market is in a better shape without the chinese exchange platforms,because they were manipulating their trading volumes and were trying to manipulate the prices.

ImHash

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They are trying to stop their people from cashing out in local currency, Cashing out Yuan will cause inflation for them, People now are trying to cash out in other countries to get dollar in exchange, They are in a war with the west. War of the coins Cheesy

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

They're still mining like mad, there must be many thousands of people who hold some BTC still.

How are they trading? Is there masses of OTC and P2P? Is it possible for them to get on Korean and Japanese exchanges?

Many predicted that after their big fat congress they'd reinstate some sort of exchange functionality. That doesn't appear to have happened.

Will they go for a full clamp down including attempting to squash non centralised trading?

Topic: What does the Chinese market now consist of? (Read 593 times)