Bitcoin Forum>Bitcoin>Mining>Hardware
Author

Topic: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical) (Read 13503 times)

Bogart
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 09, 2012, 02:08:38 PM
#34
Quote from: crazy_rabbit on October 09, 2012, 01:23:35 PM
Quote from: DobZombie on October 09, 2012, 11:04:24 AM
If it isn't hardware disabled, this could be something intelligence agencies (or bad guys) might like to get their hands on.

That's a new business niche for all the GPU farms that are going out of BTC business.

I understand there are already ppl doing this as a security auditing service for WPA keys and such.
crazy_rabbit
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 09, 2012, 01:23:35 PM
#33
Quote from: DobZombie on October 09, 2012, 11:04:24 AM
If it isn't hardware disabled, this could be something intelligence agencies (or bad guys) might like to get their hands on.

That's a new business niche for all the GPU farms that are going out of BTC business.
DobZombie
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 532
Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 09, 2012, 11:04:24 AM
#32
If it isn't hardware disabled, this could be something intelligence agencies (or bad guys) might like to get their hands on.
ice_chill
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 09, 2012, 09:52:04 AM
#31
There was once a mention by BFL that the ASIC can also do some type of password cracking, but they disabled it so as to not run into any export restrictions.
But no mention whether it is hardware disabled or firmware disabled.
DobZombie
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 532
Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 09, 2012, 08:28:17 AM
#30
Quote from: memvola on October 09, 2012, 07:44:13 AM

Theoretically, you could invent a problem that is almost identical to Bitcoin block hashing, but it's unrealistic to expect to find an existing problem that fits that criterion.


Cheers Smiley

This was the kinda back 'n' forth I was looking for.  Information and discussion.  Not these twats that just jump on and yell IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!

Thanks bud!   Grin
memvola
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 09, 2012, 07:44:13 AM
#29
Quote from: DobZombie on October 09, 2012, 07:29:21 AM
Quote from: -ck on October 08, 2012, 05:22:31 PM

I guess you're forgetting these ASICs will take a fixed length hex word describing a bitcoin block header and they output a nonce. They do not try to solve random length passwords or anything like that...

what's a nonce?

That's the number you are trying to find, it's what mining is all about. You try to find a number (nonce) that will make the block hash value lower than the target value.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Nonce

I would read the related articles as well.

Theoretically, you could invent a problem that is almost identical to Bitcoin block hashing, but it's unrealistic to expect to find an existing problem that fits that criterion.
DobZombie
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 532
Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 09, 2012, 07:29:21 AM
#28
Quote from: -ck on October 08, 2012, 05:22:31 PM

I guess you're forgetting these ASICs will take a fixed length hex word describing a bitcoin block header and they output a nonce. They do not try to solve random length passwords or anything like that...

what's a nonce?
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 08, 2012, 05:22:31 PM
#27
Quote from: Blazr on October 08, 2012, 07:58:28 AM
Quote from: -ck on October 08, 2012, 07:41:20 AM
Quote from: DobZombie on October 08, 2012, 07:21:09 AM
Is there anything else out there that uses DBL SHA-256?
Just once more for good measure: NO

Not true, double sha-256 is actually used for many things. There is plenty of software/websites that use it to store passwords in databases, such as:

http://www.clipperz.com/security_privacy/crypto_algorithms
I guess you're forgetting these ASICs will take a fixed length hex word describing a bitcoin block header and they output a nonce. They do not try to solve random length passwords or anything like that...
ice_chill
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 08, 2012, 11:10:59 AM
#26
I guess the only real answer: we will find out once the ASIC becomes obsolete for Bitcoin mining.
DobZombie
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 532
Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 08, 2012, 10:12:30 AM
#25
Quote from: Morblias on October 08, 2012, 09:43:15 AM
How much would it cost per day to run it at 1.21 Gigawatts?

I believe you mean jiggawatts Tongue
Morblias
hero member
Activity: 576
Merit: 500
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 08, 2012, 09:43:15 AM
#24
Quote from: Graet on October 07, 2012, 10:43:07 AM
Theoretically by adding a flux capacitor and a delorean it could become a time machine
But in reality - it has a single purpose - crunching double sha256

How much would it cost per day to run it at 1.21 Gigawatts?
Blazr
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 1006
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 08, 2012, 08:44:41 AM
#23
Quote from: scrybe on October 08, 2012, 08:16:09 AM
Wow, your website needs 60 Billion encryptions per second? Or even 4.5? You must be bigger than google.

If you read again, you'll notice the question I was answering was:

Quote from: DobZombie on October 08, 2012, 07:21:09 AM
Is there anything else out there that uses DBL SHA-256?

Anyways, to answer your question, no, I don't think there is any website/software/business out there that would need an ASIC just to do password hashing, but a hacker trying to brute-force a password database would need something like 60 billion hashes a sec.
DobZombie
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 532
Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 08, 2012, 08:32:27 AM
#22
Quote from: Blazr on October 08, 2012, 07:58:28 AM

Not true, double sha-256 is actually used for many things. There is plenty of software/websites that use it to store passwords in databases, such as:

http://www.clipperz.com/security_privacy/crypto_algorithms

Cool!

I knew bitcoin wasn't the only thing on the planet to use this type of 11 year CIA encryption Smiley


This is pretty interesting...
http://www.clipperz.com/security_privacy/crypto_algorithms/sha_2_secure_hash_algorithms

scrybe
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 08, 2012, 08:16:09 AM
#21
Quote from: Blazr on October 08, 2012, 07:58:28 AM
Quote from: -ck on October 08, 2012, 07:41:20 AM
Quote from: DobZombie on October 08, 2012, 07:21:09 AM
Is there anything else out there that uses DBL SHA-256?
Just once more for good measure: NO

Not true, double sha-256 is actually used for many things. There is plenty of software/websites that use it to store passwords in databases, such as:

http://www.clipperz.com/security_privacy/crypto_algorithms
Wow, your website needs 60 Billion encryptions per second? Or even 4.5? You must be bigger than google.

The problem to most uses of double SHA-256 is the scale difference. Nobody is going to spend $1300 on some thing that they can do with a CPU without noticing the load.

The only workload being built today that can leverage the ASICs in the pipeline today is AltCoins. Some like PPCoin are even avoiding merged mining, which means that you should be able to follow an optimal difficulty path if you really want to have alternatives.
Blazr
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 1006
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 08, 2012, 07:58:28 AM
#20
Quote from: -ck on October 08, 2012, 07:41:20 AM
Quote from: DobZombie on October 08, 2012, 07:21:09 AM
Is there anything else out there that uses DBL SHA-256?
Just once more for good measure: NO

Not true, double sha-256 is actually used for many things. There is plenty of software/websites that use it to store passwords in databases, such as:

http://www.clipperz.com/security_privacy/crypto_algorithms
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 08, 2012, 07:41:20 AM
#19
Quote from: DobZombie on October 08, 2012, 07:21:09 AM
Is there anything else out there that uses DBL SHA-256?
Just once more for good measure: NO
DobZombie
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 532
Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 08, 2012, 07:21:09 AM
#18
Quote from: aqrulesms on October 07, 2012, 06:00:21 PM
Application specific means it can only be used for bitcoin mining, nothing else.

This has been said time and time again.

And you absolutely had to say it again.

If anyone else wants to jump on and say it's impossible, don't bother.  We've already heard that. Cuz I can guarantee you, if there is a powerful device out there that becomes obsolete and may be destined to sit around, SOMEBODY will figure out a way to repurpose it.

I'm only interested in learning more, and getting ideas.

Quote from: ice_chill on October 08, 2012, 05:50:49 AM

It depends if the application is a custom build from the ground up, or if it uses existing standards that are used by other applications.
Bitcoin mining uses SHA256 processing, so it can processes SHA256 of other applications where the work is similar.
However BFL locks their firmware Bitstream, and they would have to open-source it before anyone can try to do anything else with the ASIC.

Awesome, some useful information with a point.  So what you're saying is until these devices are released, and/or the source becomes open, no one could really know.

Is there anything else out there that uses DBL SHA-256?

What if somebody built a tech AROUND the ASIC devices? Possible or not?
ice_chill
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 08, 2012, 05:50:49 AM
#17
Quote from: aqrulesms on October 07, 2012, 06:00:21 PM
Application specific means it can only be used for bitcoin mining, nothing else.

This has been said time and time again.

It depends if the application is a custom build from the ground up, or if it uses existing standards that are used by other applications.
Bitcoin mining uses SHA256 processing, so it can processes SHA256 of other applications where the work is similar.
However BFL locks their firmware Bitstream, and they would have to open-source it before anyone can try to do anything else with the ASIC.
aqrulesms
sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 250
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 06:00:21 PM
#16
Application specific means it can only be used for bitcoin mining, nothing else.

This has been said time and time again.
Zeek_W
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 05:45:39 PM
#15
Quote from: squeept on October 07, 2012, 10:39:23 AM
Quote from: DobZombie on October 07, 2012, 10:30:52 AM
Quote from: squeept on October 07, 2012, 09:31:01 AM
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC!!!!!

Your mum was application specific too, and I was still able to get her to do other things.

Ya unhelpful knob

It can do double SHA256 while on your desk.
It can also do double SHA256 while on a shelf.
The engineers have also taken great care to make sure that it can do double SHA256 while you eat a sandwich.

With enough modifications, it could serve as a doorstop or a paperweight, but I fear the warranty may be voided.


I would not like them here or there.
I would not like them anywhere.
I do not like non-application specific tasks and mods.
I do not like them ASIC I Am.

 Cool

Hmm doesnt quite flow well :/
Cablez
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1000
I owe my soul to the Bitcoin code...
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 01:09:10 PM
#14
The answer for all intents and purposes is no, if you want a flexible device then use an FPGA.
Bogart
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 12:35:00 PM
#13
Quote from: DobZombie on October 07, 2012, 10:44:02 AM
I'm asking if other systems be changed to fit with the way bitcoin ASICs process things?  
Do they have SoC?

Can SHA256 be used for anything else?  Or can anything else use SHA256?

Squeept.  Sorry for snappin at ya. just looking for ideas, info, etc.

Single SHA256 is probably useful for a number of other, uh, uses.

Double SHA256 is probably not useful for much besides bitcoin mining.

If they are designing these chips for maximum mining efficiency, they probably will have designed them to perform double SHA256 and nothing else.  They may well have put even more of the mining logic into the ASIC, such as returning only hash results with difficulty > 1 or some other target that makes sense.
squeept
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 10:49:05 AM
#12
My understanding / educated guess of this problem would be that IF it were possible, it would require such a ridiculous amount of pre-processing on a host computer, that you might as well just be using the computer.
DobZombie
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 532
Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 10:44:59 AM
#11
Quote from: ice_chill on October 07, 2012, 10:33:53 AM
Woman is FPGA, can be programmed to do many tasks Smiley

Not without asking nicely Tongue
DobZombie
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 532
Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 10:44:02 AM
#10
I'm asking if other systems be changed to fit with the way bitcoin ASICs process things?  
Do they have SoC?

Can SHA256 be used for anything else?  Or can anything else use SHA256?

Squeept.  Sorry for snappin at ya. just looking for ideas, info, etc.
Graet
vip
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 10:43:07 AM
#9
Theoretically by adding a flux capacitor and a delorean it could become a time machine
But in reality - it has a single purpose - crunching double sha256
squeept
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 10:39:23 AM
#8
Quote from: DobZombie on October 07, 2012, 10:30:52 AM
Quote from: squeept on October 07, 2012, 09:31:01 AM
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC!!!!!

Your mum was application specific too, and I was still able to get her to do other things.

Ya unhelpful knob

It can do double SHA256 while on your desk.
It can also do double SHA256 while on a shelf.
The engineers have also taken great care to make sure that it can do double SHA256 while you eat a sandwich.

With enough modifications, it could serve as a doorstop or a paperweight, but I fear the warranty may be voided.
ice_chill
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 10:33:53 AM
#7
Woman is FPGA, can be programmed to do many tasks Smiley
DobZombie
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 532
Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 10:30:52 AM
#6
Quote from: squeept on October 07, 2012, 09:31:01 AM
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC!!!!!

Your mum was application specific too, and I was still able to get her to do other things.

Ya unhelpful knob
squeept
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 09:31:01 AM
#5
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC!!!!!
DobZombie
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 532
Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 09:23:31 AM
#4
What about converting a processing problem into something that the mining ASICs could solve?
pieppiep
hero member
Activity: 1596
Merit: 502
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 09:05:32 AM
#3
If the chip is removable from the device you can maybe change it for another asic with the same pin-layout so it can hash faster or use a different algorithm, but I wouldn't count on it.
purelithium
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 09:03:43 AM
#2
Application Specific Integrated Circuit. That's what ASIC stands for. They are made specifically for one thing in mind, Bitcoin mining.
DobZombie
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 532
Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum
Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical)
October 07, 2012, 08:59:27 AM
#1


The thing I really want to know, is it at all possible to use any of the soon to be released ASIC devices for other another heavy processing tasks?

Is it feasible?

Is it theoretically possible?

Could they be converted/Hacked?

I know the consensus right now in NO, but there has got to be something!  

I'm just thinking ahead.

Thoughts?

(Also, pic relevant)
Bitcoin Forum>Bitcoin>Mining>Hardware
Jump to: