But what if Satoshi dies and the estate has to pay taxes. There can be deemed capital gains on death and / or estate taxes depending on the jurisdiction.
If he dies in the US then he would need to pay estate taxes on the entire value of the estate (including the bitcoin). It would not pay any taxes on the capital gains. His heirs would then have a cost basis of the value of the coins at the time he died. 
Topic: What happens if Satoshi has to pay taxes? (Read 2612 times)
Can you pay a capital gain tax if you didn't originally invest capital? I mean Satoshi literally invented bitcoins so you couldn't say that he invested X and calculate a gain from X. If X is 0, you get "undefined".
Yes, your cost basis would be 0 so 100% of your gains would be taxed at the appropriate rate.I don't know nothing about tax laws but allow me to ask you to confirm this: if I dig a piece of capital out of my mind and then sell it I have to pay capital gains taxes on the earnings?
In any case, the poster above who pointed out that Satoshi hasn't liquidated his bitcoin seems to have a good point.
Satoshi probably has a job
I think he/she/they are smarter than that.
But what if Satoshi dies and the estate has to pay taxes. There can be deemed capital gains on death and / or estate taxes depending on the jurisdiction.
Only if he sells them, in which case we'll have a lot more to worry about than whether or not he's paying taxes.
Well, thats the implication.Drawing 70 or even 140M dollars out of the exchanges is gonna bring the price down to low double or even single digits.
So he won't sell before the market is much, much larger.
But why would he sell in any case? If you are the creator of a currency, you want your currency to be worldwide accepted so you can buy things, the final goal and fundamental use of a successful currency. So why the hell would you sell (and selling is exchanging for other currency) BTC if the rest of currencies are basically enemies to your own currency? (in this term, your creation). It's by definition stupid. If I was Satoshi, I would never sell, and do all my buying and so on with BTC, live with 100% BTC off the FIAT system. If he sells a single BTC, it means he doesn't trust BTC himself, simple as that.
In future, he could mortgage those coins and get a loan and tax deduction for interest 
He would not need to pay taxes on his bitcoin until he either sells the bitcoin or trades them for some goods or services. Until either of these happen he will not owe anything.
Also his cost basis is likely very close to zero as this was the value of bitcoin when he mined the coins he mined
Also his cost basis is likely very close to zero as this was the value of bitcoin when he mined the coins he mined
Pretty much impossible for him to unload ALL his btc, at a good price currently. If he did that now, the price would plummet, not enough funds to fulfill all his orders, he couldn't get it out. He has bigger problems than taxes, how much would the taxes be anyways?
Satoshi will never mass dump his coins, just like central banks will never mass dump their gold reserve (which will most likely crash the gold price to double digits). It never hurts to hold lots of asset which do not have any use, as long as the life can be enjoyed
Quote
What happens if Satoshi has to pay taxes?
Satoshi probably has a job and pays taxes like everyone else? duh?lol 
Can you pay a capital gain tax if you didn't originally invest capital? I mean Satoshi literally invented bitcoins so you couldn't say that he invested X and calculate a gain from X. If X is 0, you get "undefined".
Yes, your cost basis would be 0 so 100% of your gains would be taxed at the appropriate rate.now we know the reason why satoshi wants to stay anon.
100% of nearly 1 million btc is alot of tax money.
Can you pay a capital gain tax if you didn't originally invest capital? I mean Satoshi literally invented bitcoins so you couldn't say that he invested X and calculate a gain from X. If X is 0, you get "undefined".
Yes, your cost basis would be 0 so 100% of your gains would be taxed at the appropriate rate. 
I always thought you only have to pay after you sell the property for cash.
It is obvious you cannot pay tax from unrealized gain. What if you forgot or lost password. ... maybe you will remember it some time, maybe not ... maybe hacker will stole it.
Can you pay a capital gain tax if you didn't originally invest capital? I mean Satoshi literally invented bitcoins so you couldn't say that he invested X and calculate a gain from X. If X is 0, you get "undefined".
I always thought you only have to pay after you sell the property for cash.
1) if you exchange 1000 Zimbabwe dollars(ZD) for $10 USD and then suddenly ZD crash to 100,000 ZD = $10 USD
Do you have to pay tax from capital gain 99,000 ZD ?
2) you buy a plot for $100 and then you find out there is oil / gold ...
Now this plot is worth $1,000,000
Do you have to pay tax from capital gain if you did not sell oil, gold nor property ?
Do you have to pay tax from capital gain 99,000 ZD ?
2) you buy a plot for $100 and then you find out there is oil / gold ...
Now this plot is worth $1,000,000
Do you have to pay tax from capital gain if you did not sell oil, gold nor property ?
What I know, you don't need to give long term Capital Gain Taxes till you sell.
So it's notional profit for him, till he is holding, when he will going to sell then he need to give long term Capital Gain Taxes.
So it's notional profit for him, till he is holding, when he will going to sell then he need to give long term Capital Gain Taxes.
Chuck Norris is Satoshi. any questions?
Nope ...
You might want to double check that. Bitcoin is treated as a currency in quite a couple of countries.
Any of those countries also do have US IRS? Right, they do not. If Satoshi is a very unlucky person to live in such an imaginary country where both bitcoin is treated as a currency and tax laws are as idiotic as in US, then well, he could easily move, paying well under a million dollars for a citizenship of one of numerous tax haven countries. Problem solved.
And ok, you seem to assume it cant be a problem, so yes, you can ignore the "if" if you want to.
And yes, you can also assume you can retroactivly ignore taxes by switching citizenship if you want to. In that case you dont even have to further contribute to this thread.
How many people have signed up to Cryptocrypt, and how do you get an invite?
Why do we entertain this sort of nonsense?
The end game of this forum began when they removed the newbie restrictions and stopped moderating out garbage posts and banning shills/FUD's/manipulators etc.
Basically all the intelligent conversation and posters have moved over to the other forum now.
I still come here daily to check up in case there was a rare interesting post....usually by the time I leave I need a beer just to wash away the painful stupidity.
"the other forum?" am i just being a dolt, or did i miss the part about what the other forum is?
Cryptocrypt....it is invitation only though.
If you are an intelligent experienced crypto enthusiast with something constructive to add, or a means to help build the community you can get an invite easy enough. If you are one of the multitude of assholes here that have nothing better than to be destructive and negative, and have nothing intelligent to add to the conversations...well those people already know who they are so they shouldn't bother trying.
He could buy his own island and move there to avoid taxes.
You might want to double check that. Bitcoin is treated as a currency in quite a couple of countries.
Any of those countries also do have US IRS? Right, they do not. If Satoshi is a very unlucky person to live in such an imaginary country where both bitcoin is treated as a currency and tax laws are as idiotic as in US, then well, he could easily move, paying well under a million dollars for a citizenship of one of numerous tax haven countries. Problem solved.
Why do we entertain this sort of nonsense?
The end game of this forum began when they removed the newbie restrictions and stopped moderating out garbage posts and banning shills/FUD's/manipulators etc.
Basically all the intelligent conversation and posters have moved over to the other forum now.
I still come here daily to check up in case there was a rare interesting post....usually by the time I leave I need a beer just to wash away the painful stupidity.
"the other forum?" am i just being a dolt, or did i miss the part about what the other forum is?
there is only one forum mentioned on bitcoin.org beside reddit:
https://bitcoin.org/en/community
From experience, you don't pay taxes on virtual unrealized gains.
/thread
/thread
What happens if/when it officially becomes a currency though? Still no need to tax?
Why do we entertain this sort of nonsense?
The end game of this forum began when they removed the newbie restrictions and stopped moderating out garbage posts and banning shills/FUD's/manipulators etc.
Basically all the intelligent conversation and posters have moved over to the other forum now.
I still come here daily to check up in case there was a rare interesting post....usually by the time I leave I need a beer just to wash away the painful stupidity.
"the other forum?" am i just being a dolt, or did i miss the part about what the other forum is?
Why do we entertain this sort of nonsense?
The end game of this forum began when they removed the newbie restrictions and stopped moderating out garbage posts and banning shills/FUD's/manipulators etc.
Basically all the intelligent conversation and posters have moved over to the other forum now.
I still come here daily to check up in case there was a rare interesting post....usually by the time I leave I need a beer just to wash away the painful stupidity.
Chuck Norris is Satoshi. any questions?
He just withdraw enough to buy a nationality from denmark then sell all he wants there. Or ir other place where Bitcoin is tax free. Or maybe open some business there and them donate the coins for that business, and make them withdraw in his name.
Problem solved, beatch
Problem solved, beatch
Satoshi isn't a real person but an imaginary one, so he can't pay taxes.
Hey, don't confuse the issue with facts.
Satoshi isn't a real person but an imaginary one, so he can't pay taxes.
Why do we entertain this sort of nonsense?
Who are "we" and what sort of nonsense?
Taxation of capital gains?
Why do we entertain this sort of nonsense?
If Satoshi wanted to sell, he should move to Germany. Iirc they don't tax bitcoins held over one year
From experience, you don't pay taxes on virtual unrealized gains.
/thread
/thread
Quote from: bitcoin.it
If instead they are treated as a currency or debt, the full gain could be taxed based on market value at the end of each tax year.
bitcoin.itYou might want to double check that. Bitcoin is treated as a currency in quite a couple of countries.
But well, if you know where Satashi lives ...
From experience, you don't pay taxes on virtual unrealized gains.
/thread
/thread
Well, thats the implication.
Drawing 70 or even 140M dollars out of the exchanges is gonna bring the price down to low double or even single digits.
Drawing 70 or even 140M dollars out of the exchanges is gonna bring the price down to low double or even single digits.
So he won't sell before the market is much, much larger.
And, from experience, you think that telling the tax office "Oh, how about you wait for another year or two..." works?
Drawing 70 or even 140M dollars out of the exchanges is gonna bring the price down
Exchanges?
I doubt Satoshi would have to stoop to using exchanges.
Only if he sells them, in which case we'll have a lot more to worry about than whether or not he's paying taxes.
Well, thats the implication.Drawing 70 or even 140M dollars out of the exchanges is gonna bring the price down to low double or even single digits.
So he won't sell before the market is much, much larger.
Only if he sells them, in which case we'll have a lot more to worry about than whether or not he's paying taxes.
Well, thats the implication.Drawing 70 or even 140M dollars out of the exchanges is gonna bring the price down to low double or even single digits.
Only if he sells them, in which case we'll have a lot more to worry about than whether or not he's paying taxes.
Lol.
They hack his email and still we don't know who he is. Taxes, what taxes?
They hack his email and still we don't know who he is. Taxes, what taxes?
In a lot of jurisdictions profit from bitcoin holding will be considered something like capital gains. And those are taxable.
In 2013 BTC started out with a value of $13 and the year ended with a value of $720.
Since it is assumed Satoshi holds around 1M BTC that would be a taxable capital gain of ~$707M.
Even assuming a fairly low tax of like 10% that would amount to like $70M, and, assuming Satoshi couldnt pay that amount anyway else, would have to sell a lot of BTC just to cover those taxes.
This may result in some fairly amusing affairs if his bitcoins ever move.
In 2013 BTC started out with a value of $13 and the year ended with a value of $720.
Since it is assumed Satoshi holds around 1M BTC that would be a taxable capital gain of ~$707M.
Even assuming a fairly low tax of like 10% that would amount to like $70M, and, assuming Satoshi couldnt pay that amount anyway else, would have to sell a lot of BTC just to cover those taxes.
This may result in some fairly amusing affairs if his bitcoins ever move.
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