What if There's a Bug No One Has Seen in Bitcoin?

doomloop

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Quote from: ranochigo on July 29, 2024, 07:29:40 PM

Major overhaul takes months or years to materialize. The different improvements that you see in the protocol often comes in the form of a proposal (BIP) first before it gets tested and merged. This is a slow process because we cannot force everyone to upgrade and we would have to ensure that its implementation makes sense in the grand scheme of things.

Between releases, optimizations and bug fixes forms the majority of the changes. You would be able to find these in the changelog. I personally am against a fast tracked development scheme unless it is mandatory.

Major haul says it all. They can be a bunch of really good updates or improvements, so let's expect that they will take a long time for them to get deployed in the system but all waiting is definitely going to be worth it. Even though an upgrade sounds innovative, indeed that there are still people who like the old school or traditional stuffs and it might take a long time for us to convinced these people to join the revolution but if they do so, at least they change their minds and that's fine that if there are no unity in the community.

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The different improvements that you see in the protocol often comes in the form of a proposal (BIP) first before it gets tested and merged.

Apart from what I've said earlier, this is another factor on why we can expect a long delay. Bitcoin is truly interesting isn't it? Bitcoin is a form of money, so it's important that things will get polished because we don't want to lose our funds easily.

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I personally am against a fast tracked development scheme unless it is mandatory.

Fast or slow, we can't do much anything about it but the decision will still depend on the project owners, though that's true that mandatory updates are always going to be instant. They don't need to ask for a second opinion anymore from the public because if they will wait any longer, that can cause more damage in the project. I'm sure we don't want that to happen too if we are also supporting them.

ranochigo

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Quote from: mpoletiek on July 26, 2024, 11:56:26 AM

Do we really see continuous improvement in BTC?

Feels like updates are few and far between.

Major overhaul takes months or years to materialize. The different improvements that you see in the protocol often comes in the form of a proposal (BIP) first before it gets tested and merged. This is a slow process because we cannot force everyone to upgrade and we would have to ensure that its implementation makes sense in the grand scheme of things.

Between releases, optimizations and bug fixes forms the majority of the changes. You would be able to find these in the changelog. I personally am against a fast tracked development scheme unless it is mandatory.

Z-tight

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Quote from: mpoletiek on July 29, 2024, 01:38:22 PM

Wake me up when most of the TX's are non-custodial again.

What do you mean by 'non-custodial tx's'? People use custodial wallets, but that is not the fault of the network, it is free and anyone can do what they like, even if it is not recommended. If you use a self custodial wallet, you create the tx yourself, manually set its fee rate and broadcast it to the network, for nodes to validate it and miners to confirm it in a block, and that is what many bitcoiners do.

mpoletiek

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Wake me up when most of the TX's are non-custodial again.

tread93

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down? Is it really impossible? Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

The only bugs in bitcoin are the people buggin for bitcoin! HA! Every year they come up with new ways to increase the network security and functionality through new protocols such as tap root, ordinals, etc. It is definitely striving for perfection! I wouldn't say perfect tho.

mpoletiek

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Quote from: crptm on July 26, 2024, 05:16:33 AM

While Bitcoin and blockchain technology are often touted as secure and reliable, claiming they are completely fool proof would be an overstatement. No system, no matter how well designed, is perfect. The technology behind Bitcoin uses some complex security methods which make it really strong. However, there’s always a chance that something might go wrong that we haven’t seen yet. The technology is robust, but the Bitcoin community remains vigilant, continuously improving and adapting the system to address potential vulnerabilities as they arise.

Well, I personally feel Bitcoin is impressive, but it’s not flawless. It’s still being improved over time, just like any other technology.

Do we really see continuous improvement in BTC?

Feels like updates are few and far between.

crptm

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While Bitcoin and blockchain technology are often touted as secure and reliable, claiming they are completely fool proof would be an overstatement. No system, no matter how well designed, is perfect. The technology behind Bitcoin uses some complex security methods which make it really strong. However, there’s always a chance that something might go wrong that we haven’t seen yet. The technology is robust, but the Bitcoin community remains vigilant, continuously improving and adapting the system to address potential vulnerabilities as they arise.

Well, I personally feel Bitcoin is impressive, but it’s not flawless. It’s still being improved over time, just like any other technology.

franky1

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already a bug
nodes bypass verifying every byte which lets arbitrary data to bloat a block
this bug has been known since 2016 even before it became active(2017)
many have noted the error and how it negatively could affect the bloockchain and negatively impact things like transaction counts per block and fee and congestion.. yet devs were sponsored to force it into being active as it helps the sponsors promote that bitcoiners should avoid using bitcoin and instead move to other networks to transact

goldkingcoiner

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down? Is it really impossible? Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

What if tomorrow a virus breaks out and kills all of humanity before we can discover a vaccine or a cure?

Anything is possible, is what I mean to say. But is it probable? No.

Same goes for Bitcoin. At this point, the probability of somebody finding a critical flaw in Bitcoin is almost non-existent. So there is no point in worrying about it.

ABCbits

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down?

There are multiple software which can be used to run full node, so it's hard to imagine all of them have same overlooked flaw. Even if soemone manage to exploit bug on Bitcoin Core (most popular full node), i don't expect whole Bitcoin network crash or going down. I expect there'll some node and miner remain running, where i expect some congestion and many services going down for a while.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down? Is it really impossible? Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

As others pointed out, the strength of trust in Bitcoin is largely because it's open-source. Anyone who wants to check the code and understands the code can do it and report bugs if they are found. Bitcoin exists for a while and has a big community of people. Not to mention that there are of course plenty of people who'd want to exploit a bug in Bitcoin. So with that in mind, it's very unlikely that there is some sort of critical bug that nobody noticed before. There were times when serious bugs got reported, but they were caught early, so to speak, without being successfully exploited AFAIK.

Dave1

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down? Is it really impossible? Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

No it's not perfect and there are a lot of bugs have been found throughout it's existence. Here is the record,

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures

And here is one of the latest critical bugs discovered: Critical Bug Found in Bitcoin Core Invokes the Multiple Client Argument.

There is no perfect system, even when Bill Gates was developing some of Microsoft's early software, there's a lot of bugs found. The good thing is that before Satoshi left, Bitcoin was already up and running seamlessly with few bugs found.

Odohu

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I believe that nothing is perfect, that is why there is room for improvement. If a bug is found in Bitcoin, it will just be like the Ordinal attack which impacted Bitcoin but gradually or should I day have been resolved. People are constantly looking for loopholes in Bitcoin and other great innovations and that is normal because without those loopholes being identified, there will not be room for improvement. We just hope there will be no bug that is beyond redemption or that will cause serious damage to the Bitcoin protocol.

Apocollapse

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Who said Bitcoin is perfect? it's open source, so anyone can check the code at anytime and any condition https://github.com/bitcoin

We're the reason why Bitcoin can survive till now, we can give contribution to the project by purchasing the coin, run full node, making the network secure, propose new feature,
find or fixing the bug.

The github is active everyday, means there's always someone trying to learn about Bitcoin and contribute the technical thing https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls

pinggoki

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With so many tech people that's so embroiled in bitcoin, I don't think that we're ever going to miss out on bugs because there's no way that you'd miss out on a bug that's got millions of eyes looking at it 24/7, plus bitcoin is an open source project so I don't see how it's developers can miss out when thousands of them are working on it.

BlackBoss_

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down? Is it really impossible?

In 2009 and next couple of years, there was more fear about bug, collapse of Bitcoin network, 51% attacks than now, 15 years after the Genesis block birthday.

With 15 years, Bitcoin blockchain has been testing many times and it is more secured, more safer to use now. 15 years later in 2039, the same question will be asked but if I will say the same in 2039, it is safer than in 2024 or in 2009, 2010.

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Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

It's not perfect as other things, no perfection.

Silberman

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down? Is it really impossible? Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

Bitcoin is a piece of software, so bugs have been found on the past and it is likely this will happen on the future too, but just like any other software, once a bug or vulnerability is found, the developers will make an effort to fix it as quickly as possible, and if the consequences of the bug are too big to ignore a hard fork could take place, could such an event bring down the price of bitcoin if it happened now? Yes, but there is no reason to think the price could not eventually recover, what I do not know is where do you got this idea that the world thinks bitcoin is foolproof or anything close to that, as I do not remember Satoshi or any of the developers making those wild claims.

Reatim

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There are so many of us out here. Sure not all of us are developers but many developers have checked and are still constantly trying to see where bitcoin can improve.

The thing is no one has seen a bug that’s probably because the bug has not taken effect yet. Bitcoin is not perfect so are people and we can’t see some things sometimes until it’s too late. Right now bitcoin has a lot of issues still that developers are trying to solve so better to focus on existing problems than create new ones.

Upgrade00

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof.

Because it is constantly under attack and any vulnerability would be exploited. Your bitcoins are safe in your wallet as long as you protect the keys and no one can force their way in through any means.

Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down?

In the hypothetical situation of a seriously debilitating flaw, it doesn't mean the network will crash. Bitcoin (as a community) can always recover from it long term and patch up at loose ends.

Faisal2202

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down? Is it really impossible? Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

Nah, I don't think it's possible that no one till now has not seen the bug if there is any. I once saw a video on IG where the dude asked the other dude that did CIA made the BTC, he said they found some loopholes in the codes (IDK remember the exact term) but then he also mentioned that out of all the codes, Satoshi has made that one part of code not vulnerable to any hack. So it means no one can really get there hands on your BTC.

Plus, we all know that Blockchain is made of chain of blocks and a small change in some 12 block, while you are at block 19 or whatever, the whole chain of blocks has to bee validated again from all the validators and miners as well. Which is not an easy thing. So I would say there is nothing to be worried about. Our funds are save, we are not using CBDC's assets. But still quantum computing is being introduced now and many people say the encryptions of BTC are vulnerable to these computers. Which I think it is not.

Z-tight

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down? Is it really impossible? Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

Nobody ever said it is foolproof, the BTC network has no central authority in control, all it has is its community, so it is up to us all to fight against threats, identify bugs and to propose improvements on the network. You cannot ask 'what if there is this or that', you check if there is, it is all open source and you can verify everything yourself, if you don't have the knowledge, support those who have it, anyhow you can.

re-start

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Quote from: Churchillvv on June 24, 2024, 11:59:32 AM

Did you find any bug?

Bitcoin is an open source project that is totally free, you can check if there is any bug yourself!

From 2008 -2009 till date that bitcoin has existed there have been lots of reviews but no bug exist till now, there have been some other vulnerabilities/bugs which you can check here but has been fixed 100%

For the record, nobody said bitcoin is the almighty and perfect project. With the way you sound from the beginning you seem antagonistic to bitcoin so you should know better if it's a perfect system.

We have discussed this many times in this forum and there are many topics about it. As you can see, the OP is a newbie and I think this topic was created only to increase the activity of the OP.

But about the Bitcoin bug. Bitcoin has been launched for more than 10 years and has evolved a lot over the years. But so far no one has been able to create/find a vulnerability in the Bitcoin system. Is more than 10 years not enough time?

seoincorporation

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down? Is it really impossible? Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

If there is a bug that could crash the full system, there is always the chance to make a hardfork. And bring back the blockchain to the point where the bug hasn't been exploited, and with the correct patch for the bug before running again.

It already happened in the past, remember there was a bug that allowed a user to generate 184M bitcoin, and the developers including satoshi, had to fix the bug and make a hard fork. So, if it happens again, there will be a solution, it doesn't mean the end of bitcoin.

bitmover

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down? Is it really impossible? Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

There was a bug in 2010, which made 184 billion BTC to be created out of nothing

Quote from: satoshi on August 15, 2010, 08:12:05 PM

Quote from: GoldRush on August 15, 2010, 08:02:35 PM

Most people running clients are not reading this message thread. So... Silly questions:

1) How will this continue to affect version 3.8.1 (pre-catastrophe) clients with bad block chain?
2) How will this affect clients that upgrade to 3.8.10 but don't remove their block chain files?

1) Once more than 50% of the node power is upgraded and the good chain overtakes the bad, the 0.3.10 nodes will make it hard for any bad transactions to get any confirmations.
2) If you didn't remove your blk*.dat files, you're not helping to contribute to that 50%, and you'll still show bad transactions until the good chain overtakes the bad chain.

Doan9269

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down? Is it really impossible? Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

Bug? is that what you mean, if you have discovered one then tell us, but am sure that you can never discover for any, instead, you have to read more better on the bitcoin network, block chain protocols and the bitcoin nodes, these among others are enough to tell you that bitcoin is a perfect solution to the current financial economy challenge we have, its all about transparencies, trust, consistencies, immutability, if there have been any bug on the network, then all the developers across the world were wrong, which is merely impossible, government also make use of blockchain, if any bug have been seen in bitcoin network, it would have been announced over 14 years ago.

letteredhub

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down?

I think the assurance is derived in it's open source nature from the blockchain. Nothing seem to be hidden from any body and that transparency alone gives users rest.

If there was any critical flaw as we speak right now the antagonists of bitcoin won't waste a secomd to alarm it just to creat fear that would lead to it's downfall. So since there has not been such alarm even now then there's no such flaw. However we ain't saying bitcoin is perfect.

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Is it really impossible? Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

just as I said above, nothing of human invention is perfect but when a development is working smoothly we've got to appreciate it for what it is.

Nwada001

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down? Is it really impossible? Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

I don't believe anything in this life is perfectly built or developed; there are always some errors and things that people won't like about it, or, as I would put it, there will always be a tinny or minor problem that should be there.

When you talk about bugs, I believe the developers have been doing so well in fixing some of the minor bugs on the network, and so far I don't even allow myself to be worried about what is perfect and what's not. At least for the main time, bitcoin has proven worthy of trust, which makes most of us feel relaxed having it as our point of investment.

_act_

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Quote from: Article4tip on June 24, 2024, 11:38:30 AM

Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down? Is it really impossible? Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

What will crash down bitcoin will be able to generate enough hashrates that can reverse many transactions back in a 51% attack. But with the hashrates bitcoin is having, that is not possible. Anyone that wants to do that will only waste time and resources and yet still fail. That is where I see vulnerability can come but which is very hard to do.

Churchillvv

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Did you find any bug?

Bitcoin is an open source project that is totally free, you can check if there is any bug yourself!

From 2008 -2009 till date that bitcoin has existed there have been lots of reviews but no bug exist till now, there have been some other vulnerabilities/bugs which you can check here but has been fixed 100%

For the record, nobody said bitcoin is the almighty and perfect project. With the way you sound from the beginning you seem antagonistic to bitcoin so you should know better if it's a perfect system.

mpoletiek

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I think at this point we can just point to the trilemma and say it's not scalable?

Article4tip

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Why is the world so sure that Bitcoin and blockchain is foolproof. What if there's a critical flaw that everyone has overlooked or not noticed and the whole system crashes down? Is it really impossible? Is Bitcoin a perfect machine or system?

Topic: What if There's a Bug No One Has Seen in Bitcoin? (Read 381 times)