What is best way to maintain your privacy sending payment with Electrum wallet?

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 05, 2024, 06:01:44 PM

Quote from: dzungmobile on February 04, 2024, 02:44:21 AM

Electrum is a SPV wallet and you have to connect to Electrum server to broadcast your transaction.

Even if you set up your own node it will still connect to Electrum server?

To be detailed, Electrum can't connect directly to Bitcoin node. You need to also run Electrum server (which obtain it's data from your node) and configure Electrum (the wallet) to only connect to your Electrum server.

Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 05, 2024, 06:01:44 PM

Quote from: satscraper on February 05, 2024, 08:38:56 AM

I think OP's concern is related to anonymity rather than privacy.

The distinction?

In short,
1. Privacy is about hiding your action
2. Anonymity is about hiding your identity.

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If you plan on setting up a node and connecting it over TOR network all by yourself OP, I highly advise you to read this[1] guide. You can stop in whatever step you like but I think that it is very well written and it actually guides any user in creating a safe environment regarding their node. By the end of it you will have a great setup and a great feeling of being able to built it all by yourself.

[1]https://kyc3.life/dojo-x86-bitcoin-node-guide/

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Quote from: satscraper on February 05, 2024, 08:38:56 AM

I think OP's concern is related to anonymity rather than privacy.

The distinction?

There is a lot of written stuff explaining distinction , just google.

However, in short and as applied to transactions. Transactions anonymity means everyone can see them but at the same time lacks the ability to identify their senders. On the contrary, privacy would signify that no one could see (and as a result) to trace transactions against the will of their senders.

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Quote from: nc50lc on February 05, 2024, 07:36:56 AM

Electrum's 'Receive' tab automatically manages your addresses in a way that an address issued by an unexpired invoice wont be issued in another invoice.

Something I noticed on threads elsewhere is the fixation on receiving but less so on sending when it comes to privacy/anonymity by members in general.

That's because your UTXO (coins) are the ones being tracked, not addresses in general.
It's not actually "from to address" but a UTXO spent to create another UTXO(s) that's why you can't see any mention of "do not reuse address to send from".

You cannot prevent a previously used address to receive to be shown as an input of a send transaction.
Because the UTXO that the receiving transaction is the one that you're spending, the address is just a wallet-representation of the script of that UTXO.

For the "fixation", receiving to different address is a precaution so each UTXO that you've received aren't automatically linked to a single identity (you).
Preserving privacy when sending is more complicated which requires manual coin control (e.g.: freezing dust attack coins, only using multiple coins that are okay to link, etc.)
When sending, as I mentioned, you do not want to link your UTXO together in one transaction by using only one per separate transaction.
Electrum's default behavior is to maximize privacy when selecting UTXO, but it's not perfect since it's automatic.

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 05, 2024, 06:01:44 PM

Quote from: dzungmobile on February 04, 2024, 02:44:21 AM

Electrum is a SPV wallet and you have to connect to Electrum server to broadcast your transaction.

Even if you set up your own node it will still connect to Electrum server?

In order to connect Electrum to your own node you will also need to run your own Electrum server. You can follow some online guides to show you how to install a server and connect to your node. If you follow the tutorials correctly then Electrum will only receive and send information through your node instead of using random public servers.

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Quote from: dzungmobile on February 04, 2024, 02:44:21 AM

Electrum is a SPV wallet and you have to connect to Electrum server to broadcast your transaction.

Even if you set up your own node it will still connect to Electrum server?

Quote from: _act_ on February 05, 2024, 01:32:24 PM

You do not necessary need to use Tails while using Electrum. If you enable the proxy, Electrum will not synchronize if you are using Internet service provider network because it will only work with Tor even on mobile Electrum.

Once tor option is enabled on Electrum it will go thru tor directly without any other 3rd party tool? The green circle turned blue and it said 'synchronizing' and finally showing my balance again at the end of it all.

Quote from: nc50lc on February 05, 2024, 07:36:56 AM

Electrum's 'Receive' tab automatically manages your addresses in a way that an address issued by an unexpired invoice wont be issued in another invoice.

Something I noticed on threads elsewhere is the fixation on receiving but less so on sending when it comes to privacy/anonymity by members in general. [/list]

Quote from: satscraper on February 05, 2024, 08:38:56 AM

I think OP's concern is related to anonymity rather than privacy.

The distinction?

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 05, 2024, 05:15:54 PM

I looked under Electrum's preferences tab but didn't see proxy option, which tab to enable proxy?

If you are on the desktop version, click on the circle located at bottom right corner of the window. In the new window, go to "Proxy" tab.
If you are on the mobile version, tap on the circle located at top right corner of the screen. Go to "Network" and after that tap on "Proxy settings".

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Aside from all the mentioned above about privacy, its also worth mentioning that running your own bitcoin node also be able to help the bitcoin network become more secured and more decentralized. You can also make profit of it when you set it as Lightning node and charges routing fees as payments that go will through your channels.

But take note it needs resources (finance) to create one.

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Quote from: _act_ on February 05, 2024, 01:32:24 PM

If you enable the proxy, Electrum will not synchronize if you are using Internet service provider network because it will only work with Tor even on mobile Electrum.

I looked under Electrum's preferences tab but didn't see proxy option, which tab to enable proxy?

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on February 05, 2024, 01:21:29 PM

The best way is by connecting to your own node, no doubt. The second best, is by using Tails. It comes with Electrum pre-installed and does not allow you to sync without going through the Tor network. However, note that by doing that, all of your addresses can be linked from the Electrum server that you use to request information.

Using your own node is the only way that I know. But if you can not use your own node is when you can look for anonymity with those light client wallets.

You do not necessary need to use Tails while using Electrum. If you enable the proxy, Electrum will not synchronize if you are using Internet service provider network because it will only work with Tor even on mobile Electrum.

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The best way is by connecting to your own node, no doubt. The second best, is by using Tails. It comes with Electrum pre-installed and does not allow you to sync without going through the Tor network. However, note that by doing that, all of your addresses can be linked from the Electrum server that you use to request information.

Quote from: Z-tight on February 04, 2024, 05:53:04 AM

You must not connect to a third party server when using electrum, and you must not use a full node wallet for better privacy, you can use your Electrum wallet and connect to your own Electrum server, without exposing your ip addresses and BTC addresses to any third party server.

The only way to not expose IP and Bitcoin addresses to a third party is by running a full node, so I presume you've mistyped.

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I think OP's concern is related to anonymity rather than privacy. It would be privacy relevant if OP could have the ability to choose who can really see his payment but due to bitcoin design it is practically impossible task.

As to improving anonymity (i.e. decreasing the traceability of payment) there are plenty of ways (including those already described in this thread) to do this, but some times, at appropriate and adequate obstinacy of investigators, all of them may fail.

Good reading on this matter - "How a 27-year-old busted the myth of Bitcoin’s anonymity".

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Quote from: nc50lc on February 05, 2024, 07:36:56 AM

The article is talking about the possible "upload" bandwidth because a full node may also send its blockchain to its peers that are in IBD.

Which also means more data are required, especially if your node is active 😳

Although, I was referring to what I quoted. It was a typo from me. I meant 20 gigabyte monthly of download, and not 200 gigabyte.

Quote

Download usage is around 20 gigabytes a month, plus around an additional 340 gigabytes the first time you start your node.

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on February 05, 2024, 06:52:20 AM

When the full blockchain download was still around 340 gigabytes, the monthly download usage specified in the article was 200 gigabyte or more monthly.

The article is talking about the possible "upload" bandwidth because a full node may also send its blockchain to its peers that are in IBD.

Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 04, 2024, 12:46:47 AM

What is best way to maintain your privacy sending btc payment with Electrum wallet?

As suggested by the majority, using your own server and connecting to Tor is the best solution.
That requires a full node so if you ever consider using the full node's wallet as is, just use Bitcoin Core for simplicity of the setup.

If setting-up a server or full node isn't an option, you could select a server that "claimed" that they do not keep logs (like Blockstream's server)
But since it's only their words, it involves trust, trust that they wouldn't map your IP to your Bitcoin addresses.

Additionally, it's a matter of handling your addresses and UTXOs.
As I suggested in the other thread, use your addresses only once to receive and do not link your UTXOs by using more than one in a single transactions.
Electrum already has a quite good features aimed for privacy (only in terms of address/coins usage):

Electrum's coin-selection algorithm already does the above as long as the amount to send requires only one UTXO.
So when receiving, if possible, prioritize higher amounts than multiple small amounts so that your transactions wont be needing two or more to send large amounts.
If it requires manual coin-control, it also has an option to freeze or select coin: coin-control instructions (requires good knowledge about privacy).
Electrum's 'Receive' tab automatically manages your addresses in a way that an address issued by an unexpired invoice wont be issued in another invoice.
So, if unsure, use your receive tab to get new unused address and use only one invoice per transaction. Do not set an expiration if you're not sure when the payer will send or the address will be reissued once the invoice has expired.

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on February 05, 2024, 06:52:20 AM

Quote from: ABCbits on February 05, 2024, 06:39:00 AM

It should be "every month" rather than "everyday".

I am not a node runner, but I think it was weekly that I saw when I went through an article 2 years ago about it. Likely 5 gigabyte or more every week was what that I saw.

I went through this article just now: https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#minimum-requirements

When the full blockchain download was still around 340 gigabytes, the monthly download usage specified in the article was 200 gigabyte or more monthly.

Quote

Download usage is around 20 gigabytes a month, plus around an additional 340 gigabytes the first time you start your node.

I see. I initially thought you talk about bare-minimum requirement to download all new blocks. Number you mentioned is correct if OP or other reader intent to use Bitcoin Core as full node rather than only as wallet.

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Quote from: ABCbits on February 05, 2024, 06:39:00 AM

It should be "every month" rather than "everyday".

I am not a node runner, but I think it was weekly that I saw when I went through an article 2 years ago about it. Likely 5 gigabyte or more every week was what that I saw.

I went through this article just now: https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#minimum-requirements

When the full blockchain download was still around 340 gigabytes, the monthly download usage specified in the article was 200 gigabyte or more monthly.

Quote

Download usage is around 20 gigabytes a month, plus around an additional 340 gigabytes the first time you start your node.

ABCbits

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I don't know why some member mention mixer when OP mainly ask about wallet. But OP and reader should take note that not all mixers are equally good and usually mixed coin can't be deposited into centralized exchange.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on February 04, 2024, 03:11:43 AM

Quote from: Zaguru12 on February 04, 2024, 01:20:58 AM

Mind you running a bitcoin node plus this personal electrum server requires you to have enough storage space.

It is worth knowing that downloading the full blockchain requires over 500 gigabyte of blockchain download. Also that you will need like 5 to 10 gigabyte (if it is not more now) of data to keep downloading the lastest blocks everyday.

It should be "every month" rather than "everyday".

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Quote from: Z-tight on February 04, 2024, 05:53:04 AM

You must run your own node for better privacy, just using Tor alone is not enough if you are going to connect to a third

I agree with you that having your own node can provide much better privacy then just using Tor but the ones who really don't care much if others can see their addresses then those users can benefit by using tor. The ones who really want high levels of privacy should run their own node if they have a separate system and also use tor.

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Quote from: SamReomo on February 04, 2024, 04:09:36 AM

Use Tor for the privacy as that's going to be easy and helpful at the same time. It would be difficult for you to run your own personal node but that's also a good option.

You must run your own node for better privacy, just using Tor alone is not enough if you are going to connect to a third party server that can see your BTC addresses.

Quote from: dzungmobile on February 04, 2024, 02:44:21 AM

Electrum is a SPV wallet and you have to connect to Electrum server to broadcast your transaction. You can increase your privacy a little bit by using Tor with Electrum wallet but it is not a best solution.

You must not connect to a third party server when using electrum, and you must not use a full node wallet for better privacy, you can use your Electrum wallet and connect to your own Electrum server, without exposing your ip addresses and BTC addresses to any third party server.

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 04, 2024, 12:46:47 AM

What is best way to maintain your privacy sending btc payment with Electrum wallet?
Is there another wallet that will offer more privacy sending btc?

I didn't use myself. but I heard that Wassabi and Samurai Wallets are best for privacy purposes.
Another Option is using Bitcoin Mixers, they work pretty well. but you must choose a reputable mixer for that. I can't name any mixer here because this forum does not allow posting any links of mixers but you can find good mixers list at AltcoinsTalks Forum: https://altcoinstalks.com/
All the Best.

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Quote from: Ruttoshi on February 04, 2024, 03:54:20 AM

OP can simply connect his electrum wallet to Tor for privacy, if he cannot run a full node as stated by posters above.

With using TOR connection, you can hide your IP address, but you would still rely on a third party for getting transactions data and broadcasting transactions. The server you are connected to can link all your generated addresses with each other.

Quote from: Ruttoshi on February 04, 2024, 03:54:20 AM

It is important to know that when you are using an electrum wallet using one same address to send and receive funds over and over again is not idea when it comes to your privacy because you can easily get hacked.

Your security depends on the security of the your device, how you generated your wallet and how you keep you keys. When it comes to security, it doesn't matter whether you reuse addresses or not.

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 04, 2024, 12:46:47 AM

What is best way to maintain your privacy sending btc payment with Electrum wallet?

Use Tor for the privacy as that's going to be easy and helpful at the same time. It would be difficult for you to run your own personal node but that's also a good option. I would suggest you to follow the instructions of the Zaguru12 as he has mentioned the best ways to avail full privacy while using Electrum wallet. I wouldn't suggest you another wallet but if you really want to use one then you should opt for the open-source wallets only.

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Quote from: nakamura12 on February 04, 2024, 03:40:31 AM

Quote from: SmartGold01 on February 04, 2024, 03:06:09 AM

I am using Electrum wallet and is safe for me even though i didn't enable change address while receiving and sending out payments i still finds it cool because especially here this forum my previous address has been signed over here and for any attack or lost I could only used the first address to restore my account back.
But for privacy purpose you can use change of address where your transaction would be very hard to trace.

signing wallet address is only used for recovering lost or hacked account and does nothing to keep your privacy. It will only serve as a proof that you are the owner of the said wallet address. The best choice for OP increasing his privacy is to use different wallet address in every transaction either as a receiver or sender. It also doesn't need downloading huge amount of data if OP is planning to run a full node which again requires huge space for the data to be downloaded.

OP can simply connect his electrum wallet to Tor for privacy, if he cannot run a full node as stated by posters above. It is important to know that when you are using an electrum wallet using one same address to send and receive funds over and over again is not idea when it comes to your privacy because you can easily get hacked.

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Quote from: SmartGold01 on February 04, 2024, 03:06:09 AM

I am using Electrum wallet and is safe for me even though i didn't enable change address while receiving and sending out payments i still finds it cool because especially here this forum my previous address has been signed over here and for any attack or lost I could only used the first address to restore my account back.
But for privacy purpose you can use change of address where your transaction would be very hard to trace.

signing wallet address is only used for recovering lost or hacked account and does nothing to keep your privacy. It will only serve as a proof that you are the owner of the said wallet address. The best choice for OP increasing his privacy is to use different wallet address in every transaction either as a receiver or sender. It also doesn't need downloading huge amount of data if OP is planning to run a full node which again requires huge space for the data to be downloaded.

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Remember privacy isn't only about when you want to make a transaction, it start from the privacy in your life, the hardware and the operating system you use.

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Quote from: Zaguru12 on February 04, 2024, 12:48:37 AM

The best way to maintain privacy is by running your own full node and also using different address for different transactions. If you run your own node and then point electrum server towards it then your privacy might be protected and you won’t depend on other nodes for information and also you can use Tor or VPN to hide your IP too if you’re connected to other nodes

It is worth mentioning also that running your own node or personal electrum server should be connected with Tor for privacy reason. Connecting it with IP is not private enough as your Internet network provider can still see some information about you and that you are using Bitcoin Core.

Quote from: blckhawk on February 04, 2024, 12:51:52 AM

what's the many benefits of running your own full node because that seems to be an interesting thing to do for me, I really don't have much to do when it comes to passing the time and I don't even have a lot of hobbies so this could be a good one for me, I just wish that this doesn't cost a lot of money to do though.

Privacy is the benefit. You will not have to depend on other nodes/servers. If your wallet is synchronizing with the blockchain using the nodes/servers, the nodes/servers will know your wallet addresses and also your IP address. If your IP address can be known, your real identity can be known through your Internet service provider.

Quote from: Zaguru12 on February 04, 2024, 01:20:58 AM

Mind you running a bitcoin node plus this personal electrum server requires you to have enough storage space.

It is worth knowing that downloading the full blockchain requires over 500 gigabyte of blockchain download. Also that you will need like 20 gigabyte of data to keep downloading the lastest blocks monthly.

Quote from: Nrcewker on February 04, 2024, 02:44:03 AM

If you are beginner and want to maintain full privacy, then it’s better to use newly generated addresses for each transaction that you do in the blockchain. Electrum wallet has the facility of generating new and unlimited addresses. Hence each time you send or receive the coins, use new addresses. People can easily track the activity done of a particular Bitcoin address, hence in order to become completely anonymous use different address.

This is part of it. But there are times you will also need coin control for this while sending coins and not only while receiving. Also to have full privacy, you will needs mixers or converting to monero at times. You can run Electrum with Tor for anonymity. But for privacy, you need to run your own node with Tor.

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I am using Electrum wallet and is safe for me even though i didn't enable change address while receiving and sending out payments i still finds it cool because especially here this forum my previous address has been signed over here and for any attack or lost I could only used the first address to restore my account back.
But for privacy purpose you can use change of address where your transaction would be very hard to trace.

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 04, 2024, 12:46:47 AM

What is best way to maintain your privacy sending btc payment with Electrum wallet?
Is there another wallet that will offer more privacy sending btc?

Electrum is a SPV wallet and you have to connect to Electrum server to broadcast your transaction. You can increase your privacy a little bit by using Tor with Electrum wallet but it is not a best solution.

The best is using wallet like Bitcoin Core, run your full node, use Tor and broadcast your transaction from your full node.

Using Electrum through Tor.
List of Active .onion servers.

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 04, 2024, 12:46:47 AM

What is best way to maintain your privacy sending btc payment with Electrum wallet?
Is there another wallet that will offer more privacy sending btc?

If you are beginner and want to maintain full privacy, then it’s better to use newly generated addresses for each transaction that you do in the blockchain. Electrum wallet has the facility of generating new and unlimited addresses. Hence each time you send or receive the coins, use new addresses. People can easily track the activity done of a particular Bitcoin address, hence in order to become completely anonymous use different address.

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Quote from: Ever-young on February 04, 2024, 01:43:26 AM

If I’m not using my own node and am conducting transaction on electrum wallet either using the mobile or the desktop wallet is my location exposed to which ever node that’s it’s connected to since am not running my own node?, I’m asking because I can’t recall ever using any VPN to access my wallet and I don’t know how say that is, well I don’t have much to even be afraid of as I don’t hold much and their is not point of me being afraid of privacy breach.

Yes your location is exposed, if you’re only concerned about IP then use Tor and not VPN because with VPN you’re still trusting a third party and they can still get your IP. As for running your own node it is for best for anonymity sake this way you don’t need to depend on other other nodes for blockchain information as the public node you’re connected to might be feeding you with wrong information. Another reason why you should run a bitcoin node is because you’re helping the network to be more decentralized: more node runners more decentralization we have.

It is also worth mentioning that running your own bitcoin node doesn’t mean your wallet is automatically save it is far from that, your wallet safety depends on how safe or secure your seed phrase or private key is. That’s why the best form of storage is cold storage where the seed phrase never comes online.

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Quote from: Zaguru12 on February 04, 2024, 12:48:37 AM

The best way to maintain privacy is by running your own full node and also using different address for different transactions. If you run your own node and then point electrum server towards it then your privacy might be protected and you won’t depend on other nodes for information and also you can use Tor or VPN to hide your IP too if you’re connected to other nodes

If I’m not using my own node and am conducting transaction on electrum wallet either using the mobile or the desktop wallet is my location exposed to which ever node that’s it’s connected to since am not running my own node?, I’m asking because I can’t recall ever using any VPN to access my wallet and I don’t know how say that is, well I don’t have much to even be afraid of as I don’t hold much and their is not point of me being afraid of privacy breach.

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Quote from: Zaguru12 on February 04, 2024, 01:20:58 AM

Quote from: blckhawk on February 04, 2024, 12:51:52 AM

~

There are many benefits of running a full bitcoin node which the major reason is privacy, with full node you will not need to connect to any other public nodes since you’re running your own this basically the main reason for bitcoin core wallet. But let’s assume you want to use an SPV wallet like electrum or sparrow you can be able to switch servers this way it is possible to set up your own electrum server like electraX and then connects it to your own full node. This way you can even use cold wallets like hardware wallets with your own electrum server which is basically your own node.

Here is a thread by n0nce how to do that https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/guide-full-node-opensuse-153-bitcoind-electrs-c-lightning-rtl-5366854

Mind you running a bitcoin node plus this personal electrum server requires you to have enough storage space. Some people opt for pruned node but with prune node you can’t sync a new wallet or even a new address that wasn’t there before the pruned node because it might have to redownload the entire blockchain again ( since prune node doesn’t store all blocks)

Thanks for the guide and I'm not really a technical specialist or an expert in crypto stuff so it's going to take me awhile to fully understand the guide because there's a lot of things that I don't understand on just the surface, I might just go for it and start experimenting right away and then ask the questions along the way when the problems arises. I'll also take a gander at that pruned node, seems like a good cost cutting method to run one.

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Quote

What is best way to maintain your privacy sending btc payment with Electrum wallet?
Is there another wallet that will offer more privacy sending btc?

There are many ways to increase transaction confidentiality:
1. Use more anonymous wallets than Electrum to send payments. For example, Wasabi or Samourai. You can also use Bitcoin mixers as an alternative. However, it has become unsafe to talk in detail on this forum, so I will limit myself to just mentioning them.
2. Do not use the same address more than 1 time. To hide metadata, you can use TOR technology.
3. Often this is not enough, because the person himself helps his addressees establish a connection between the address and his personal information. For example, a person may provide their social media handles along with their Bitcoin address information. Social media searches allow you to identify additional personal information and associate it with your Bitcoin address.

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Quote from: blckhawk on February 04, 2024, 12:51:52 AM

Is there like a tutorial here for that and what's the many benefits of running your own full node because that seems to be an interesting thing to do for me, I really don't have much to do when it comes to passing the time and I don't even have a lot of hobbies so this could be a good one for me, I just wish that this doesn't cost a lot of money to do though.

There are many benefits of running a full bitcoin node which the major reason is privacy, with full node you will not need to connect to any other public nodes since you’re running your own this basically the main reason for bitcoin core wallet. But let’s assume you want to use an SPV wallet like electrum or sparrow you can be able to switch servers this way it is possible to set up your own electrum server like electraX and then connects it to your own full node. This way you can even use cold wallets like hardware wallets with your own electrum server which is basically your own node.

Here is a thread by n0nce how to do that https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/guide-full-node-opensuse-153-bitcoind-electrs-c-lightning-rtl-5366854

Mind you running a bitcoin node plus this personal electrum server requires you to have enough storage space. Some people opt for pruned node but with prune node you can’t sync a new wallet or even a new address that wasn’t there before the pruned node because it might have to redownload the entire blockchain again ( since prune node doesn’t store all blocks)

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Quote from: Zaguru12 on February 04, 2024, 12:48:37 AM

The best way to maintain privacy is by running your own full node and also using different address for different transactions

Is there like a tutorial here for that and what's the many benefits of running your own full node because that seems to be an interesting thing to do for me, I really don't have much to do when it comes to passing the time and I don't even have a lot of hobbies so this could be a good one for me, I just wish that this doesn't cost a lot of money to do though.

Zaguru12

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 952

The best way to maintain privacy is by running your own full node and also using different address for different transactions. If you run your own node and then point electrum server towards it then your privacy might be protected and you won’t depend on other nodes for information and also you can use Tor or VPN to hide your IP too if you’re connected to other nodes

bitcoin talk

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Activity: 267

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What is best way to maintain your privacy sending btc payment with Electrum wallet?
Is there another wallet that will offer more privacy sending btc?

Topic: What is best way to maintain your privacy sending payment with Electrum wallet? (Read 424 times)