Pools could sell block space well into the future to companies who expect to need a lot of block space in the future. This will allow both the pool and the consumer of block space to have a more predictable revenue and expenses.
This could be a risk to the mining pool: when they sell block space above market value, more miners will join their pool. But when fees go up and their long-term contract forces them to sell transactions under market value, miners will move to other pools.
Topic: What is the lowest (non-zero) transaction fee you have ever used or seen? (Read 288 times)
October 29, 2022, 04:10:30 AM
October 29, 2022, 04:01:19 AM
Pools could sell block space well into the future to companies who expect to need a lot of block space in the future. This will allow both the pool and the consumer of block space to have a more predictable revenue and expenses.
This could be a risk to the mining pool: when they sell block space above market value, more miners will join their pool. But when fees go up and their long-term contract forces them to sell transactions under market value, miners will move to other pools. October 21, 2022, 06:44:02 AM
There are 18,161 transactions which have paid a fee of exactly 1 sat: https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transactions?q=fee(1)
October 21, 2022, 01:49:12 AM
I think pools will eventually start selling their block space (off chain) to large consumers of blocks space (for example to exchanges) via long term deals. Today, pools sell their block space (off chain) to retail consumers, often at a huge markup, however the required tx fee is currently so low, that most likely, few need to do this.
This makes no financial sense at all. For both the mining pool and the buyers.If the pool is selling the space at a higher price that means the buyer is basically paying a higher fee. In other words they could just pay a higher on-chain fee in first place. If they are selling it at a lower price that means they are losing revenue which again makes no sense.
There is no shortage of demand for the block space either for the pools to need to do some marketing and ensure their revenue.
Pools could sell block space well into the future to companies who expect to need a lot of block space in the future. This will allow both the pool and the consumer of block space to have a more predictable revenue and expenses. Today, transaction fees to get transactions confirmed, even on a next-block basis is very close to zero, but this will not always be the case.
October 20, 2022, 11:53:01 PM
I think pools will eventually start selling their block space (off chain) to large consumers of blocks space (for example to exchanges) via long term deals. Today, pools sell their block space (off chain) to retail consumers, often at a huge markup, however the required tx fee is currently so low, that most likely, few need to do this.
This makes no financial sense at all. For both the mining pool and the buyers.If the pool is selling the space at a higher price that means the buyer is basically paying a higher fee. In other words they could just pay a higher on-chain fee in first place. If they are selling it at a lower price that means they are losing revenue which again makes no sense.
There is no shortage of demand for the block space either for the pools to need to do some marketing and ensure their revenue.
October 20, 2022, 11:04:16 PM
Most clients will only allow users to set a fee rate when crafting a transaction, however, it is possible to craft a transaction with a 'flat' fee, for example, x sats. Or in the case of what j2002ba2 found, 1 sat.
Regardless of what nodes will relay, as long as the transaction is valid, if a pool is willing to include said transaction in its found block, it has the potential to be confirmed, if the pool is aware of the transaction. Most of the time, this will involve either the pool receiving compensation for including said transaction(s) off-chain, or the pool including its own transaction(s) in its found blocks.
Regardless of what nodes will relay, as long as the transaction is valid, if a pool is willing to include said transaction in its found block, it has the potential to be confirmed, if the pool is aware of the transaction. Most of the time, this will involve either the pool receiving compensation for including said transaction(s) off-chain, or the pool including its own transaction(s) in its found blocks.
You are correct and since OP didn't ask more clearly, it is a very good answer.
However, unless one has his own pool, this doesn't worth the hassle, so it has only an "academic value". Still, nice catch!
October 20, 2022, 12:43:15 AM
Most clients will only allow users to set a fee rate when crafting a transaction, however, it is possible to craft a transaction with a 'flat' fee, for example, x sats. Or in the case of what j2002ba2 found, 1 sat.
Regardless of what nodes will relay, as long as the transaction is valid, if a pool is willing to include said transaction in its found block, it has the potential to be confirmed, if the pool is aware of the transaction. Most of the time, this will involve either the pool receiving compensation for including said transaction(s) off-chain, or the pool including its own transaction(s) in its found blocks.
Regardless of what nodes will relay, as long as the transaction is valid, if a pool is willing to include said transaction in its found block, it has the potential to be confirmed, if the pool is aware of the transaction. Most of the time, this will involve either the pool receiving compensation for including said transaction(s) off-chain, or the pool including its own transaction(s) in its found blocks.
You are correct and since OP didn't ask more clearly, it is a very good answer.
However, unless one has his own pool, this doesn't worth the hassle, so it has only an "academic value". Still, nice catch!
October 19, 2022, 05:14:10 PM
The lowest fee rate you can set for your transaction is 1 sat/vbyte. That's the current minimum relay fee rate and any transaction with lower fee rate would be rejected by the nodes.
As said, in 2022 the lowest fee you can set is 1 sat/vByte.
Technically lowest fee is zero.
Practically it is 1 satoshi/vbyte so the total depends on the tx virtual size.
Most clients will only allow users to set a fee rate when crafting a transaction, however, it is possible to craft a transaction with a 'flat' fee, for example, x sats. Or in the case of what j2002ba2 found, 1 sat. Practically it is 1 satoshi/vbyte so the total depends on the tx virtual size.
Regardless of what nodes will relay, as long as the transaction is valid, if a pool is willing to include said transaction in its found block, it has the potential to be confirmed, if the pool is aware of the transaction. Most of the time, this will involve either the pool receiving compensation for including said transaction(s) off-chain, or the pool including its own transaction(s) in its found blocks.
October 19, 2022, 04:52:44 PM
Great informative responses, thanks everyone 
October 19, 2022, 01:45:53 PM
The lowest possible value is 0, but there are very few nodes that will relay such transaction. You can communicate with a mining pool, though, and have it included into their mempool.
Or if you have your own mining pool, no more headaches and you can have it completely free:
https://mempool.space/tx/5a19c18e1cf2fc57626a6814854c3315d9d072aeabfa287afc6cdfc987e127b8
F2pool consolidating in one of its owned mined blocks.
I've just seen the below tx go through with a 191 sat fee. I don't remember seeing such a low fee in a confirmed transaction lately.
Nothing new, it has been going like this for months:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.60272306
October 19, 2022, 01:30:54 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but the lowest fee a standard transaction can have is one that spends one SegWit input and creates one SegWit output. I've done it quite frequently, and paid 121 sats.
As far as I know, the size of a transaction with 1 native segwit input and 1 native segwit output should be around 110 vbyte.Assuming the fee rate used for such a transaction is 1 sat/vbyte, the total fee should be 110 satoshi.
Click here to see a transaction paying 110 satoshi as fee.
October 19, 2022, 01:02:53 PM
Anyone aware of lower fee examples (in 2022)?
Here is a transaction with fee exactly 1 sat from September 2022https://mempool.space/tx/5d1c002042d56dd856870de97349b5995cd258d42be0c0a3a104ed8f2be047c0
October 19, 2022, 12:58:49 PM
The lowest possible value is 0, but there are very few nodes that will relay such transaction. You can communicate with a mining pool, though, and have it included into their mempool.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the lowest fee a standard transaction can have is one that spends one SegWit input and creates one SegWit output. I've done it quite frequently, and paid 121 sats.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the lowest fee a standard transaction can have is one that spends one SegWit input and creates one SegWit output. I've done it quite frequently, and paid 121 sats.
October 19, 2022, 08:41:04 AM
Technically lowest fee is zero.
Practically it is 1 satoshi/vbyte so the total depends on the tx virtual size.
Since that total fee depends on the transaction size theoretically the lowest fee should be around 60 satoshis since that is the smallest transaction possible which would be non-standard. A transaction that has no signature (empty script) and no locking script (empty).
version(4)+inputcount(1)+outpoint(32+4)+sequence(4)+script(1)+outputcount(1)+amount(8)+script(1)+locktime(4)=60 bytes => 60 satoshi.
Practically it is 1 satoshi/vbyte so the total depends on the tx virtual size.
Since that total fee depends on the transaction size theoretically the lowest fee should be around 60 satoshis since that is the smallest transaction possible which would be non-standard. A transaction that has no signature (empty script) and no locking script (empty).
version(4)+inputcount(1)+outpoint(32+4)+sequence(4)+script(1)+outputcount(1)+amount(8)+script(1)+locktime(4)=60 bytes => 60 satoshi.
October 19, 2022, 08:32:45 AM
The lowest I've seen was 0. But that was many years ago.
As said, in 2022 the lowest fee you can set is 1 sat/vByte. And as you can see we discuss about fee per vByte, not per total.
So the total fee depends on addresses used and the size (in vBytes) of the transaction.
If you want to have very low fee you have to:
* use pure segwit address for both input and output
* use only one input
* have only one output (i.e. no change, i.e. entirely spend the input for the output + tx fee)
As you can see, this kind of transactions don't really have many use cases (apart of sending to self and maybe donations).
As said, in 2022 the lowest fee you can set is 1 sat/vByte. And as you can see we discuss about fee per vByte, not per total.
So the total fee depends on addresses used and the size (in vBytes) of the transaction.
If you want to have very low fee you have to:
* use pure segwit address for both input and output
* use only one input
* have only one output (i.e. no change, i.e. entirely spend the input for the output + tx fee)
As you can see, this kind of transactions don't really have many use cases (apart of sending to self and maybe donations).
October 19, 2022, 08:26:21 AM
The lowest fee rate you can set for your transaction is 1 sat/vbyte. That's the current minimum relay fee rate and any transaction with lower fee rate would be rejected by the nodes.
If your transaction is segwit and it includes 1 input and 1 output, its size would be around 110 vbyte. So, the lowest possible fee is around 110 satoshi.
If your transaction is segwit and it includes 1 input and 1 output, its size would be around 110 vbyte. So, the lowest possible fee is around 110 satoshi.
October 19, 2022, 08:21:01 AM
I've just seen the below tx go through with a 191 sat fee. I don't remember seeing such a low fee in a confirmed transaction lately.
https://mempool.space/tx/507402f95a07511bb8ba3d5fecfa65bb1d9e44367aef42d38cfa8238c243f54b
Anyone aware of lower fee examples (in 2022)?
EDIT: I assume fees can be even lower with segwit, right?
https://mempool.space/tx/507402f95a07511bb8ba3d5fecfa65bb1d9e44367aef42d38cfa8238c243f54b
Anyone aware of lower fee examples (in 2022)?
EDIT: I assume fees can be even lower with segwit, right?
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