Topic: What is the "Request Payment" button for? (Read 1061 times)

There are effectively an "infinite" number of addresses/keys associated with a seed mnemonic... the point of using that tool was just to check that it wasn't a "gap limit" issue. HD wallets will generally only look along the chain of addresses until it detects 20 or so "unused", then it stops assuming that there aren't likely to be addresses further down that chain that have been used. The exact number that it stops after is called the "Gap Limit". The tool simply generates as many addresses as you require, so you can manually look for addresses/coins.

However, at this point, I think we've established that you simply have the "wrong" seed mnemonic, so the tool is of no real use to you.



Short answer: How long is a piece of string?

Long answer: you'd need to ask the admins of the ICO... theoretically, it could all be a giant scam and they just run off with everyone's money... they appear to have a "beta" exchange up and running... although as far as I can tell, it has 0 volume. Their twitter/facebook was active 4 days ago... Facebook claims exchange listing in Jan 2018 (https://www.facebook.com/SolomonExICO/) getting listed on an exchange is purely up to the exchange in question, there is never any guarantee that any given exchange will accept any given coin (unless it's one of those pay 1 BTC to get listed type deals )

Previously, and I apologize because there is another thread that you kindly replied to, put you passed along information about a form - BIP 39 Mnemonic.
When I plugged in my backup phrase it generated over 1000 lines...I stopped looking at that point.  Could there potentially be thousands of lines and what again should I be doing with all of this?

Also, if you'll bear with me, I asked another question that no one ever answered, but if you have a one sentence answer I would be grateful.  I put some money in an ICO which ended on 9/28/17.  How long before before that goes public and the coins are on an exchange? That is, can they wait indefinitely or is there a standard length of time?  It's SMNX if you want to know. Yeah, it's shit.    Thanks HCP!              

3) [This is where I need some input] If I plug the BTC address into bitcoinwhoiswho for instance, the address also brings up a numerical "wallet name" - in this case 11687719a239aa23 - does this number identify a wallet like Jaxx?  In my uneducated mind, if this number does identify a particular wallet - one in which I'm claiming I sent the BTC to - then isn't that significant?

4) Now if "the record" of that transaction shows it parked there and unused/unspent then how could it belong to anyone else but me?  I sent it to __ address.  That is the last address you can see.  In other words, I didn't then send it to someone else because the transactions don't show that.

I think my argument probably shows a profound lack of understanding as to the blockchain itself.  My understanding was that, while decentralized, there is transparency in that you can follow the ball.  Therefore, I must have it have it wrong in that there no transparency and therefore you can't prove it's your ball without saying the magic words...                         

Firstly, sorry if I came across as a bit harsh... Cryptocurrency can be quite unforgiving when you get it wrong

Well, you can't shoot the messenger!  Unforgiving is definitely the word.

Honestly, I can't argue with your version of events, I wasn't there and I don't have access to your records/notes and wallets... so all I can tell you is based on what you're currently able to see.

It would appear that what Danny has theorised is most likely the case... that you somehow created TWO wallets on your Android (Jaxx issue?)... only wrote down the seed for the first one... but started using the second one... so the timeline would be something like this:

- Created AndroidWalletA, wrote down SeedA
- Created AndroidWalletB - Possible Jaxx error?
- Sent 1.0 BTC to addresses in AndroidWalletB
- Installed Jaxx on PC, entered SeedA... saw 0 BTC
- Sent money to addresses showing on PC (AndroidWalletA)... saw this amount show up on PC
- Reinstalled the wallet on Android using SeedA... 1.0 BTC disappears along with AndroidWalletB, small amount from AndroidWalletA shows up

That is a pretty shit situation to be honest... I've seen others get into trouble with Electrum on PC as well, when they forget they've used the program before... and start it up and there is an old wallet that the app uses by default and they start receiving funds to the addresses in it, not knowing what the wallet password was (as it only asks for password when you go to send etc)... and they end up with BTC stuck in a wallet that they can't send from

Without the ability to go back in time that version of possible events could have been the case.  I think the wildcard is the possible Jaxx error.   I watch their page on Reddit daily.  While there seems to be plenty of user errors their wallet just doesn't seem to be reliable from all the glitches that frequently arise.   

As for bets... I would also bet 1.0 BTC that Jaxx will deny all liability if they even respond to any of your support requests...  

The are responding to some extent but I agree 100% that they will deny liability.  Which on their part is easy to do knowing the apparent impossibility in proving a case against them.  I am a lawyer by the way so I won't rule it out but you have to be able to prove your case.   

Which brings me to my "case" as it were.  And this is where I just don't get the lack of "proof" because it makes sense to me and the lay people I've explained it to.

1) I fund my account [bank deposit goes to Coinbase in order to allow me to buy BTC]

2) I send BTC to Coinbase.  If I were in court I could physically log into that account which would should the address I sent from, the precise time, amount and address I sent the BTC to.

3) [This is where I need some input] If I plug the BTC address into bitcoinwhoiswho for instance, the address also brings up a numerical "wallet name" - in this case 11687719a239aa23 - does this number identify a wallet like Jaxx?  In my uneducated mind, if this number does identify a particular wallet - one in which I'm claiming I sent the BTC to - then isn't that significant?

4) Now if "the record" of that transaction shows it parked there and unused/unspent then how could it belong to anyone else but me?  I sent it to __ address.  That is the last address you can see.  In other words, I didn't then send it to someone else because the transactions don't show that.

I think my argument probably shows a profound lack of understanding as to the blockchain itself.  My understanding was that, while decentralized, there is transparency in that you can follow the ball.  Therefore, I must have it have it wrong in that there no transparency and therefore you can't prove it's your ball without saying the magic words...                         

     

I get the tough love HCP, and I could accept that if that's actually what happened.  But that is not what happened.
I first installed the Android and copied the seed key.  When I later added the pc version all I tried to do was pair the wallets, not open a new one.  So I used the seed key I had.  There was only one key and I have it.
What happened next is anyone's guess.  Jaxx updated the app the day after I installed it.  They also had a problem with their Chrome extension.  Who knows? 
One thing is for sure since I can't "prove anything."  The money I'm talking about will be sitting in limbo forever...and I'll bet you 1 BTC on that!          

Your problem is that you cannot "prove" that that money is yours, as you do not have access to the private keys that control the coins. Without the private keys to prove ownership, how can the system know that the account is yours? because you say so? because you can show that you sent money from another account you own to their current location?

Regardless of any "papertrail", it just isn't relevant as far as the Bitcoin system is concerned... none of that is evidence or proof that the coins are "yours"... Essentially, it's proof that the coins "were" yours at some point... but has no relevance now.

The only "proof" the Bitcoin system will accept is a properly signed transaction using the appropriate private keys... and I'd say it is also highly likely that in a similar situation, no bank would be willing to grant you ownership without similar proof.

There is a reason why you'll see the phrase "If you don't have the private keys, you don't have the coins" repeated so often in Cryptocurrency circles.

This is what makes no sense about this ecosystem.  I can track the transactions (deposits) to the Jaxx wallet (From Coinbase and ABRA) because there is a history there.  Yet, for some reason all of that is totally irrelevant.  I would submit that it is relevant.  It's my damn money but there doesn't appear to be anything I can do about it.  As long as this kind of insanity is going on mainstream will never join up because this wouldn't be tolerated.  As much as I dislike banks I would have recourse with them.  Not so here.             

It's starting to sound like the Jaxx wallet gave you the wrong seed phrase when you first installed it. Then it synchronized that wrong seed phrase to your PC, and then later synchronized that wrong seed phrase back to the Android overwriting and erasing the actual seed phrase that the Android wallet was originally using.

If that's what actually happened, then the Jaxx wallet is a piece of crap and I wouldn't trust it with ANYTHING of value in the future.  If the wallet gave you the wrong seed phrase, then it might not be possible to figure out what seed phrase the original installation was actually using.  In that case, those bitcoins will be stuck unspendable forever.

I installed the Mycellium wallet on Android.  Added my backup phrase and have the same amount that is in the Jaxx wallets. 

In reviewing my notes I see that I installed the Android on 7/28/17 [Notably, the updated version of their Android app came out the very next day]  Then I see the backup phrase.  Then I see my notes that on 8/4/17 I had 0.319 BTC in that wallet - which is more than I have now.  I've made nothing but deposits to that wallet totaling just over 1 BTC.   I'm convinced the problem is on their end.  Proving it is quite another thing.  Open to any and all suggestions!  Thanks Danny.

Ok, if your memory is accurate and you really did write that seed phrase down when you first installed the Android, then it sounds like Jaxx has a bug.  I would recommend that you NOT use Jaxx anymore.

In the meantime, I believe that Mycelium has an Android wallet, and that the Mycelium seed phrase is compatible with the Jaxx seed phrase:
https://wallet.mycelium.com/contact.html

I would recommend that you install Mycelium on your android, and then recover using the Jaxx seed phrase.  See how many (if any) bitcoins the Mycelium wallet displays.

It is the same phrase I wrote down when I originally installed the Android and is now the backup phrase for both devices.

That is what I expected.

Now...

You said:


Do you still have the phrase that you wrote down back then?

Is THAT phrase the same as the one that you see right now on both PC and Android?  Or is THAT phrase different than the one that you see right now on both PC and Android?

Same as each other right now.  I have only 1 seed phrase for both wallets.  Does that make sense?  When I display them inside Jaxx on either pc or Android they are one and the same.

1) Installed Jaxx wallet on Android.
2) Wrote down seed phrase

I suspect so, but it's possible that there is information that is missing in your description, and you don't realize it and therefore don't know what to supply.


Same as what?

Same as each other right now?  Or same as the phrase that you wrote down when you first installed the Android wallet?

You should have TWO phrases right now.

1. The phrase that you wrote down when you first installed the Android wallet.
2. The phrase that you recovered from either your PC or your Android wallet right now using the instructions from the link I provided earlier.

Those two seed phrases should NOT be the same as each other if you have correctly described what happened.

You should be able to use seed phrase number one (the one you wrote down when you first installed your wallet) to recover the bitcoins that were sent to your Android wallet from Coinbase and ABRA.
You should be able to use seed phrase number two (the one you just got now from you PC wallet) to recover the bitcoins that were sent to your PC wallet from the crypto newsletter.


Same as each other right now.  I have only 1 seed phrase for both wallets.  Does that make sense?  When I display them inside Jaxx on either pc or Android they are one and the same.

am I the one not seeing the picture?  Thanks buddy....           

I followed your instructions.  The seed phrase is the SAME on both Android and PC.

You say you have the seed phrase from the Android.

You say you lost the bitcoins that were sent to the Android.

I tell you that you can use the Android seed phrase to recover the bitcoins that were sent to the Android, and you decide you are SOL?

Either you didn't pay attention to what I said, you you didn't explain the situation properly.





I explain to you how to get the seed phrase from the PC, and instead of following the instructions you just tell me that you didn't follow them and that you don't have the seed phrase?

If you want to have the seed phrase, then why didn't you follow the instructions at those links?  If you don't want to have the seed phrase, then why are you intentionally risking the bitcoins that you can currently access on the PC?


If you choose not to ever backup your PC seed phrase and you eventually lose access to that wallet, or you choose not to ever try and recover your Android wallet with your Android seed phrase?

Then the bitcoins just stay where they are right now forever.  You are the only one that can spend them. If you choose not to, then they just remain unspent forever.



It's not that you are not "able to do a darn thing about it".  It's that you have decided not to follow the instructions I've provided.  You are choosing not to spend the bitcoins.  I don't know why you wouldn't recover them with your seed phrase, but that's your choice to make.

So it looks like I'm SOL.

No, I only have the seed for the Android.  I'm pretty anal about everything I do and I do not recall getting a seed for the pc wallet.  If I did I would have written it down.

Just curious - what happens to these "missing" funds?

Can't tell you how utterly frustrating it is to be able to follow the money trail and see it sitting there and not being able to do a darn thing about it.        

If you still have the seed phrase from that wallet, then any bitcoins that were sent to it can be recovered with that seed phrase.  Have you tried to do that yet?


Sounds like the PC got set up as a new wallet instead of a paired wallet.  In theory the PC wallet should have it's own seed phrase. However, as long as you can still access the bitcoins that were sent to the PC wallet, you don't need that seed phrase right now.


That's VERY odd.  If the PC overrode the Android, then ONLY the bitcoins that were sent to the PC wallet should be visible on the Android now. I'm not sure why the Android show NO bitcoins.  Perhaps it isn't properly synchronized.


If that is true, then you should be able to use that seed phrase to recover any bitcoins that were sent to that wallet.


Have you tried either of these on both the PC and the Android?
https://decentral.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/217877198-How-can-I-see-my-wallet-s-Backup-Phrase-and-how-can-I-verify-that-I-have-an-accurate-copy-
https://decentral.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000809413-How-can-I-get-my-12-word-Backup-Phrase-

That should tell you what the current seed phrase is on each of them.

If you are certain that you have the correct seed phrases for both the original Android wallet (where you received the bitcoins from Coinbase and ABRA) AND the PC wallet (where you received the bitcoins from the crypto newsletter), then you should be able to restore either of those wallets from their respective seed phrases.

No, I only have the seed for the Android.  I'm pretty anal about everything I do and I do not recall getting a seed for the pc wallet.  If I did I would have written it down.

So it looks like I'm SOL.  Just curious - what happens to these "missing" funds? 

Can't tell you how utterly frustrating it is to be able to follow the money trail and see it sitting there and not being able to do a darn thing about it.         

Okay, here's the story as simply as I can describe it.

1) Installed Jaxx wallet on Android.
2) Wrote down seed phrase
3) Sent various amounts to that wallet from Coinbase and ABRA.  All showed fine.

4) Installed pc version of Jaxx and tried to pair wallets.  Didn't work for some reason so I just let it be since the Android worked fine.
5) Was given a small amount of BTC by joining a crypto newsletter.  Tried sending that to the pc wallet and it worked.

6) Then tried again to pair the wallets.
7) Result: ALL BTC disappeared from the Android.  Only the small amount was left on the pc version.

I'm 100% positive that the seed phrase I wrote down is the same seed phrase I received when opening the Android wallet.

There you have it.         

That depends on what you did.


The link won't help you recover anything.

The link is just a way to ask for a payment.

If you have a Jaxx wallet, and the Jaxx wallet has bitcoins, then you can send them without the link. Just enter into the Jaxx wallet the amount of bitcoins that you want to send, and the address that you want to send them to.

If you don't have a Jaxx wallet, or your Jaxx wallet doesn't have bitcoins, then the link isn't going to magically put bitcoins into the Jaxx wallet for it to send to you.

You haven't explained yet how you "lost" the bitcoins, so it isn't possible to explain to you if you can recover them or how.

Thank you Danny.

So If I have this right it may be possible to recover these amounts.

Do you know if the Jaxx wallet is able to understand a payment request link like this?

It builds a web URL that can be used given to others to request a payment from them to that address.

So, for example, if the address 19DDGqeyWhXNegTLPtqgv4F5WzpA92kVSL was an address from your wallet, you could view that address on the blockchain.info website and click the "request payment" button.

Then you could fill out the form that pops up.

If you enter 0.01 into the BTC field to request a payment of 0.01 BTC, and "Demonstration" into the Description field, then it will generate the following URL (link) for you:

https://blockchain.info/payment_request?address=19DDGqeyWhXNegTLPtqgv4F5WzpA92kVSL&message=Demonstration&amount=0.01

Wallets that are able to understand payment request links will then create a transaction sending 0.01 BTC to 19DDGqeyWhXNegTLPtqgv4F5WzpA92kVSL whenever anyone clicks on that link.

There is also a button called "request payment".  
What are the uses of that button?