What kind of software should beginners know?

crwth

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Thank you for the replies. I guess I can summarize in some way the replies here.

Some suggested installing open-source stuff and that's how we can truly assess its trustworthiness
For paid services, I think the most reputable ones would be the best.
Using TOR (This would be hard when the user is non-tech-savvy
Usage of uBlock Origin
Use of open-source 2FA like Aegis (Android) or Tofu (iOS)

Basically, learning about possible stupidity on the internet that could cause you financial/mental harm.

Quote from: ?? on ??

~snip

Thank you for the additional links to resources. This would be helpful for those who are interested in reading it and why good security practice is important.

Quote from: mk4 on March 17, 2022, 06:40:11 AM

Screw software to begin with — what you need at the start is education. You can have a hardware wallet and the most secure devices in the world but you'd still end up screwed if you know what you're doing. If the person understands security risks a decent amount already, he/she would know the important software needed.

This in turn would make beginners or non-tech-savvy users into tech users etc. Like the importance of it etc. Basically, not making it basic but learning how to do it is the approach.

Quote from: tranthidung on March 17, 2022, 09:35:39 PM

~snip

Thank you for the links. This would be helpful for newbies and interested people.

Quote from: electronicash on March 18, 2022, 01:07:24 AM

why not just TOR and wallet like electrum. that's just it. some users just don't want to complicate things on their computer. i have some suspicions about those password manager, i'd rather just save them on a txt file or just remember it.

That's kind of hard just saving them on a .txt file because it's easily accessible. Can you encrypt something like this? I think it would make it complicated even more if you try to let a newbie do this kind of thing.

Quote from: LoyceV on March 18, 2022, 07:39:53 AM

I think we have a different idea of what "non-tech savvy" means: I know people who after 10 or more years still can barely open a word processor or copy a file. They click around without reading anything, and that's how they go from "content consumption" to "content consumption".
For those people, a simple Android wallet on a non-rooted phone could be safer than installing stuff on their PC (which might be filled with virusses already).

I think it's almost the same though, like someone who is not technologically capable of operating a piece of tech. That's sad that they cannot operate the computer very well. Maybe they are too old for it and can't remember how they did it the last time? Probably they are just into watching Netflix or something. Maybe they can watch a documentary about privacy and security with anything tech-savvy related.

AakZaki

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Software such as Antivirus will secure your device from malware and some phishing websites so that there will be protection that continues to monitor your device. But it should be understood, the antivirus that is used is better, a premium antivirus with several security features that will help. Free antivirus is also not a problem, but when the free limit is up, many features will be reduced.

In addition, the use of Two-Factor Authentication is very helpful for securing login to accounts such as email and Exchange.

I don't use a VPN or password manager, because some VPN use cases are dangerous when using a free VPN.

BernyJB

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Quote from: mk4 on March 17, 2022, 06:40:11 AM

Screw software to begin with — what you need at the start is education.

I absolutely agree with this statement. The best security practice (on and offline) is to trust only yourself, and not to rely on software from companies/people that may have "ulterior motives" for offering that perceived security. In my opinion, short of being a security expert, there are simple enough steps you can take to add an acceptable level of security to your life, from being (very!) careful what you click on, to having a dedicated OS (on a pendrive/external drive, or a separate computer if you can afford it) for your crypto.
2FA and other security methods work, and will keep on working for a while, until somebody (a bad guy) cracks them, or a good guy realizes there's money to be made off of them. Best security method is for nobody to even know you have crypto to begin with.

hugeblack

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The most important thing is to learn, using the application will not enhance your privacy if you do not know how it works or at least have basic knowledge of it.
Most of the people download a random VPN application and thus give these companies their data, which they may sell later to parties that use it to track them.

We do not forget that with minimal errors, your identity will be revealed, and therefore you must be careful and constantly learn to ensure a high level of privacy.

Antivirus software is a waste of money and does not add any extra protection.
Also, you must use Two-Factor Authentication in a phone that is not connected to the Internet.

LoyceV

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Quote from: mk4 on March 17, 2022, 06:40:11 AM

Screw software to begin with — what you need at the start is education. You can have a hardware wallet and the most secure devices in the world but you'd still end up screwed if you know what you're doing.

True!

Quote from: decodx on March 17, 2022, 07:46:24 AM

When in doubt, don't click!

Also true! But even experienced users make mistakes with this. Especially Google makes it very hard not to click on a phishing link: both their Search Engine and Gmail love to track every click you make, so instead of showing the real URL, it shows something encoded with google.com in there.

Quote from: crwth on March 17, 2022, 04:58:22 AM

The software that I think would be useful for beginners/non-tech savvy users

VPN
Password Manager
Anti-virus software
Two-Factor Authentication app

I think we have a different idea of what "non-tech savvy" means: I know people who after 10 or more years still can barely open a word processor or copy a file. They click around without reading anything, and that's how they go from "content consumption" to "content consumption".
For those people, a simple Android wallet on a non-rooted phone could be safer than installing stuff on their PC (which might be filled with virusses already).

Natalim

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Two-Factor Authentication app is enough and understanding how to protect your password and other important files on your computer is very important. I don't know about anti-virus, I read somewhere that it's not recommended, instead, just avoid downloading files or visiting an unsecured website.

Further, you can also protect your privacy or prevent hacks if you use another computer for your daily activities (non-accessing of crypto assets), as the other computer is dedicated to crypto transactions only. My recommendation works for me, hopefully this helps.

Chikito

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Quote from: jerry0 on March 17, 2022, 04:53:19 PM

Do virtual machines protect you from malware and keyloggers?

for wallet? that bad idea. it also depends on what OS you want to install. if also windows, better undo it.
If only have 1 device, I've suggested you create the dual boot. just shrink your Hardisk to about 10 GB and create Linux beside windows.
if you don't want to bother, use tails OS on a stick.

Quote from: tranthidung on March 18, 2022, 07:22:13 AM

Quote from: electronicash on March 18, 2022, 01:07:24 AM

why not just TOR and wallet like electrum.

Electrum is not good for your anonymity and privacy. If you want a better wallet, let's use Wasabi wallet.

Electrum can connect through tor for privacy.

https://driftwoodpalace.github.io/Hodl-Guide/hodl-guide_66_electrum-tor.html#setup-electrum

tranthidung

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Quote from: electronicash on March 18, 2022, 01:07:24 AM

why not just TOR and wallet like electrum.

Electrum is not good for your anonymity and privacy. If you want a better wallet, let's use Wasabi wallet.

Electrum is more easily to use, lighter in storage and in my opinion, it is good enough for simple people who only need to make Bitcoin transactions. That wallet has changed addresses to use as well. However, if you are serious with anonymity and privacy, Electrum wallet is not for you: no Tor, no Coinjoin transactions.

If use Electrum, remember to verify it before using

[GUIDE] How to Safely Download and Verify Electrum

electronicash

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why not just TOR and wallet like electrum. that's just it. some users just don't want to complicate things on their computer. i have some suspicions about those password manager, i'd rather just save them on a txt file or just remember it.

i don't even use TOR because the exchange might see a security breach, i don't want them to notice my account anymore and go thru all the troubles again of verifying. i only use it if i really need to go to a .onion site.

Cookdata

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Quote from: crwth on March 17, 2022, 04:58:22 AM

.....

Security and Privacy are what I have to share with a newbie, it is possible that a new person may learn all that you have listed above but may hardly know the difference between privacy and security. For example, to achieve privacy, you can use a VPN but not all VPNs are that secured especially the few ones you see around are most of the free server locations they provide are all US and the US is prohibited in some countries. If they learned that two, any software wouldn't be a problem especially when it comes to know the difference between open source and close source.

mk4

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Quote from: jerry0 on March 17, 2022, 04:53:19 PM

Do virtual machines protect you from malware and keyloggers?

Quote from: jerry0 on March 17, 2022, 04:53:19 PM

The thing is if you click on a link that might be dangerous, does the VM protect it or not?

Virtual machines help in a way that you have a contained environment to do stuff that you'd deem risky; hence you can infect that VM with as much malware as you want and there's a great chance that your main OS won't be harmed.

Quote from: jerry0 on March 17, 2022, 04:53:19 PM

What about linux?

Linux isn't necessarily more secure, but the fact is — most malware is made for Windows devices.

Quote from: jerry0 on March 17, 2022, 04:53:19 PM

What about paid anti virus like kaspersky or norton etc if you use windows?

They can help in some instances, but security mostly depends on the user, and far less about the anti-malware.

P.S. I've seen you post questions quite a bit, and most of the time your posts can be quite annoying to respond to because you have like 4-8 questions in every post. Maybe calm down a bit lol.

tranthidung

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Quote from: crwth on March 17, 2022, 04:58:22 AM

VPN
Password Manager
Two-Factor Authentication app

I have some links to support your post

VPNs

Password managers

Two-factor Authentication app

Aegis Authenticator, a decent alternative to Google Authenticator and Authy

Despairo

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Mentioning isn't enough, you need to explain how to use it safely and not go wrong side.

Quote from: crwth on March 17, 2022, 04:58:22 AM

VPN

There are 2 type VPNs, paid and free VPN. Both free and paid are worked, but free VPN is bad for your privacy. Not all paid VPNs are good, the good one is NordVPN.

Quote

Password Manager

When you use Chrome, the password manager is from Google which is very bad privacy for you. Don't forget Google is spying your history and browser, so use other browser offer good privacy e.g. TOR, Mozilla and good password manager e.g. Keepass, Yubikey

Quote

Anti-virus software

Beware of installing unknown anti virus, many anti virus software are weight, uBlock is lighter.

Quote

Two-Factor Authentication app

2FA need to be installed on another device, many people installed 2FA in the same device. It's not 2FA anymore and you kill the purpose of 2FA, it's prevent from malware can't access your 2FA since you have separate device. Google 2FA isn't good for privacy, better go with Aegis.

vapourminer

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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?

Quote from: PrivacyG on March 17, 2022, 06:09:34 AM

But I would like an input from someone who knows more and better than I do. Is an anti virus truly safe? Do they not scan computer files? If yes, does my wallet.dat file not get scanned in the process? Sure, you can add the Bitcoin folder to the list of exceptions. But still, the popular and best anti viruses are closed source. I do not trust them.

i use AV, but i do go through the settings and disable stuff that sends questionable files/data to their servers for analysis as i dont want parts of private files being sent off yonder. so no cloud based stuff. check all settings.

definitely exclude your drive/folder that has the blockchain as the blockchain has had snippets of viruses uploaded in the past. the AV will "fix" the blockchain invalidating it if it actually scans every file in the drive/folder (some AV may only scan .exe etc so might be OK). been a while but i seem to remember that being an issue.

the other day i sent a bitcoin addy via email to myself and my AV deleted it in microsoft outlook before my eyes. as in i saw it and then watched it get deleted in a second. i was NOT impressed. some update enabled email scanning and once i found the setting and disabled it the email went through.. with a modified subject field that said "spam.. extortion protection" or some such as it said it found a crypto address.

WTF

this was paid bitdefender btw

PX-Z

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Quote from: jerry0 on March 17, 2022, 04:53:19 PM

Do virtual machines protect you from malware and keyloggers? What about linux?

The thing is if you click on a link that might be dangerous, does the VM protect it or not? What about paid anti virus like kaspersky or norton etc if you use windows?

Most virus format or compatibility is for windows OS, so its good to say that it won't affect and linux os is safe for most of the known virus.

Clicking url is not enough, the url page should be accessed before the browser and anti virus react to it if.

Mostly if you installed an ad blocker, which url domains are whitelisted or blocked it react immediately just by clicking the url imo.

jerry0

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Do virtual machines protect you from malware and keyloggers? What about linux?

The thing is if you click on a link that might be dangerous, does the VM protect it or not? What about paid anti virus like kaspersky or norton etc if you use windows?

PrivacyG

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One thing I did not think about when writing my last post. The first and most important move may be learning about Linux. This is the first thing you should do if you care about transparency, security and privacy. Furthermore, you can install a clean Linux distro on an old computer of yours and use that ONLY for Bitcoin transactions. No need to use anti virus when you do not even access anything besides your Bitcoin wallet on that computer.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on March 17, 2022, 06:19:51 AM

They do scan files; some scan only known executable files, for some you can set only certain extensions, or set folders to not be scanned, some will scan all. And most will also sell all the data they can.
It's one of the reasons I use hardware wallet.

Oh God, you can only imagine how much data Microsoft collects and sells through their default anti virus that seems like impossible to disable or kill. It is almost like it never truly stops scanning even when disabled, I wonder why Roll Eyes

just eerie.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on March 17, 2022, 06:19:51 AM

last time I've used it it also had TOR by default iirc.

Tails does have system wide TOR enabled by default.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

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Newbie and privacy? Do you really believe in it? What is needed for this? Take a young man who first learned about the Internet, and first tell him and explain all the risks of disclosing his identity on the network. Today, children from the age of 5 sit on the Internet, post photos, talk about themselves, and when they grow up, they try to delete their information, which is simply impossible to destroy.
We must talk about privacy from the cradle, otherwise, everything else is nonsense. Whatever you do today, your footprint is already on the internet. It remains only to spread it as little as possible.

decodx

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The first line of defense for non-tech savvy people against online threats is to use common sense and avoid doing anything that could harm their online security. There is no software that can fully protect us from human stupidity.

We may (and should) use antivirus software in our computers, but this doesn’t change the fact that our computers are still managed by the same human beings who do stupid things. Antivirus software doesn’t protect us from social engineering. Attackers can infiltrate systems with simple e-mails, phishing scams or social engineering phone calls, to name a few, that fool users into giving away their credentials.
The only way to avoid dangerous situations in cyberspace is by being very vigilant. Users should be aware of how to protect themselves from potential dangers and refrain from clicking on suspicious e-mails or clicking on malicious links in messages.

When in doubt, don't click!

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: crwth on March 17, 2022, 04:58:22 AM

The software that I think would be useful for beginners/non-tech savvy users

VPN
Password Manager
Anti-virus software
Two-Factor Authentication app

But beginners can bring more risk to themselves if they do not use the right ones. Example is using a free VPN that can result to more ways that malware can be downloaded and installed on their device and leading to hackers compromising wallet device and wallet to steal coins, or their data sold by the free VPN providers to third party.

Also I will recommend beginners to know the difference between Tor and VPN and to know how Tor is better, especially while maintaining privacy or anonymity on noncustododial wallets. Privacy and anonymity are better on decentralized Tor servers than a most likely single server operated by VPN providers.

Antivirus (anti-malware) can be of help but I will recommend ublock origin too as ETFbitcoin recommend it, for blocking ads.

Use of 2FA that are close source is not recommended if there are open source ones like Aegis and Tofu. Also beginners must know they should not have their 2FA app on the same device they have their wallet or what they used the 2FA for. I do not recommend 2FA that makes use of online cloud for backups, I prefer the offline ones.

mk4

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Screw software to begin with — what you need at the start is education. You can have a hardware wallet and the most secure devices in the world but you'd still end up screwed if you know what you're doing. If the person understands security risks a decent amount already, he/she would know the important software needed.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: PrivacyG on March 17, 2022, 06:09:34 AM

There was this list of VPN's that sell your data. It included VPN's that supposedly do not. Many of the popular ones collect, analyze and sell your data. I would not use VPN's because it seems like a false impression of having privacy. Maybe the only situation in which I see them useful is for local websites that deny access to Tor nodes. But otherwise, Tor all the way.

I know that, although I don't know the list of them (not that it would matter much yet). I've used TOR, I didn't use VPN. I don't see real benefits in using VPN, but I may be missing something and that's why I'd like more info in this.

Quote from: PrivacyG on March 17, 2022, 06:09:34 AM

Is an anti virus truly safe? Do they not scan computer files? If yes, does my wallet.dat file not get scanned in the process? Sure, you can add the Bitcoin folder to the list of exceptions. But still, the popular and best anti viruses are closed source. I do not trust them.

They do scan files; some scan only known executable files, for some you can set only certain extensions, or set folders to not be scanned, some will scan all. And most will also sell all the data they can.
It's one of the reasons I use hardware wallet.

Quote from: PrivacyG on March 17, 2022, 06:09:34 AM

You can also use Tails for broadcasting transactions.

You can indeed use Tails. Imho a better use for Tails would be for cold storage (obviously offline) and keep a watch only wallet on your main online PC (and broadcast from there).
But setting up persistence in Tails is not for everybody; also some don't trust Electrum that comes bundled into Tails because you cannot really verify it. But overall I do like to have a Tails stick around; last time I've used it it also had TOR by default iirc.

PrivacyG

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on March 17, 2022, 05:20:10 AM

In the context of anti-virus, also the possible benefit of having a separate Linux (partition, VM or WSL) only for transactions could be part of discussion.

You can also use Tails for broadcasting transactions. But I would like an input from someone who knows more and better than I do. Is an anti virus truly safe? Do they not scan computer files? If yes, does my wallet.dat file not get scanned in the process? Sure, you can add the Bitcoin folder to the list of exceptions. But still, the popular and best anti viruses are closed source. I do not trust them.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on March 17, 2022, 05:20:10 AM

And I would also like to see a discussion about VPN - which worth using and why - and a comparison(?) between VPN, TOR and use of proxies (free/hacked or not).

There was this list of VPN's that sell your data. It included VPN's that supposedly do not. Many of the popular ones collect, analyze and sell your data. I would not use VPN's because it seems like a false impression of having privacy. Maybe the only situation in which I see them useful is for local websites that deny access to Tor nodes. But otherwise, Tor all the way.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: crwth on March 17, 2022, 04:58:22 AM

VPN
Anti-virus software

While these are not directly Bitcoin related, I do see benefits in telling more about them (or at least some of them) to the world. However, please do some research on the forum to avoid duplication; because there were discussions at least about Password managers and 2FA apps, but I don't know if a proper presentation/comparison was done.

In the context of anti-virus, also the possible benefit of having a separate Linux (partition, VM or WSL) only for transactions could be part of discussion.
And I would also like to see a discussion about VPN - which worth using and why - and a comparison(?) between VPN, TOR and use of proxies (free/hacked or not).

crwth

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If you have met with someone who is not tech-savvy and is having a hard time in the cryptocurrency space and all the cold wallet/hot wallet and private critical stuff that everyone will encounter. What is the software that will help protect from hacks, privacy, clean, and many more, that would be useful for non-tech savvy users and somewhat "teachable" stuff to them?

The software that I think would be useful for beginners/non-tech savvy users

VPN
Password Manager
Anti-virus software
Two-Factor Authentication app

I'm not really sure but maybe this could help some other people or something.

Topic: What kind of software should beginners know? (Read 354 times)