What no privacy means | Bitcointalksearch.org

owm123

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Quote from: evergrow on April 21, 2016, 07:18:40 AM

Quote from: Moneroman88 on April 21, 2016, 07:14:29 AM

Without Privacy (security of self) this is where we are heading: https://infowars.wikia.com/wiki/Society_of_Control. A cryptocurrency should be private by default and public voluntarily, not vice versa: https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero. The internet got privacy wrong, we should learn from that mistake.

Isn't Bitcoin private enough anyway?

Its private, but not anonymous: http://www.bitcoinisnotanonymous.com/

Nxtblg

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Quote from: generalizethis on April 23, 2016, 05:30:18 PM

I'd offer the same advice for anyone buying any coin. This is supposed to be early adopter friendly, not rope greater fools with promises of moon.

Got it: there's a reason why speculative investments are labeled "High Risk."

The saddening - or sobering - part of it all is that folks who treat altcoins as penny stocks fall naturally into the habit of expecting "management" (the devs) into doing all the work. I have to confess that I'm struggling with this bad habit myself. Undecided

It just goes to show you that "decentralized, peer-to-peer, permissionless" are not mere buzzwords: they're a new standard that's so disruptive that they require us to actually break a lot of habits - some of which we didn't even know we had.

generalizethis

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Quote from: Nxtblg on April 23, 2016, 05:20:11 PM

Quote from: generalizethis on April 23, 2016, 01:55:07 PM

Quote from: prettybuds on April 23, 2016, 01:38:43 PM

Quote from: evergrow on April 23, 2016, 10:13:32 AM

So should I be buying this Monero?

well... not an easy decision ........
no! don't Grin

I agree. If your asking someone other than your wife or financial advisor, then you probably haven't researched it enough.

And that was exactly the point behind that upthread-posted quote from smooth:

Quote from: smooth on April 15, 2016, 06:39:55 PM

It dangerous experimental technology. Unless you are an expert capable of evaluating everything carefully and an extreme speculator, and in all cases capable of securing your crypto coins properly, you shouldn't buy it. If you have a short term use, well you still need to be able to secure your crypto coins properly, and no that doesn't mean GUI.

I interpreted his words as a strongly-worded disclaimer. In bland form, "Don't buy any Monero unless you're very sure you know what you're buying. Unless you have technical chops or a desire to learn techy stuff, there's a good chance you will not know what you're buying."

I'd offer the same advice for anyone buying any coin. This is supposed to be early adopter friendly, not rope greater fools with promises of moon.

Nxtblg

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Quote from: generalizethis on April 23, 2016, 01:55:07 PM

Quote from: prettybuds on April 23, 2016, 01:38:43 PM

Quote from: evergrow on April 23, 2016, 10:13:32 AM

So should I be buying this Monero?

well... not an easy decision ........
no! don't Grin

I agree. If your asking someone other than your wife or financial advisor, then you probably haven't researched it enough.

And that was exactly the point behind that upthread-posted quote from smooth:

Quote from: smooth on April 15, 2016, 06:39:55 PM

It dangerous experimental technology. Unless you are an expert capable of evaluating everything carefully and an extreme speculator, and in all cases capable of securing your crypto coins properly, you shouldn't buy it. If you have a short term use, well you still need to be able to secure your crypto coins properly, and no that doesn't mean GUI.

I interpreted his words as a strongly-worded disclaimer. In bland form, "Don't buy any Monero unless you're very sure you know what you're buying. Unless you have technical chops or a desire to learn techy stuff, there's a good chance you will not know what you're buying."

ArticMine

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Monero Core Team

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on April 21, 2016, 12:27:34 PM

Cash is private. I pay for sex toys with $50 bills and no one has any idea who bought 'em. And the local sex shop doesn't take monero.

Cash works fine for in person transactions. What Monero does is bring privacy and more importantly fungibility to electronic transactions online, where cash is not an option.

generalizethis

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Quote from: prettybuds on April 23, 2016, 01:38:43 PM

Quote from: evergrow on April 23, 2016, 10:13:32 AM

So should I be buying this Monero?

well... not an easy decision ........
no! don't Grin

I agree. If your asking someone other than your wife or financial advisor, then you probably haven't researched it enough.

prettybuds

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Quote from: evergrow on April 23, 2016, 10:13:32 AM

So should I be buying this Monero?

well... not an easy decision ........
no! don't Grin

vincentvincent

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don't

evergrow

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So should I be buying this Monero?

generalizethis

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Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: barnaby47 on April 23, 2016, 12:44:23 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on April 22, 2016, 09:49:46 AM

Quote from: barnaby47 on April 22, 2016, 09:38:32 AM

The visibility of the transactions in the blockchain enables anyone and everyone to confirm the validity of the ledger. Cryptonote does not have this visibility, therefore the validity of the transactions cannot be confirmed, which means there is no independent way of verifying that the implementation or the protocol have not been broken.

It could be broken, we dont know and we have no way of showing that it is not being exploited right now.

That's not true. You can verify Monero's coinbase as you do in Bitcoin.

Yes, but not the rest of the chain unfortunately.

Not sure what you're talking about, even when CT is implemented, you can still validate the coin total.

"[–]fluffyponyzaXMR Core Team 3 points 2 months ago

So, having only the blockchain data, is it possible to mathematically prove that all blocks inside followed the rules?

Yes - read gmaxwell's write-up on CT and you'll see that amounts can still be verified.

To illustrate it as simply as I can: imagine if every transaction input was 1000 XMR. But, using ring signatures, you mix your real input of 55 XMR with a bunch of other ones that adds up to 1000 XMR. Analysing the blockchain we can still verify that it adds up to 1000 XMR, but we can't tell which value is yours."

barnaby47

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Quote from: generalizethis on April 22, 2016, 09:49:46 AM

Quote from: barnaby47 on April 22, 2016, 09:38:32 AM

The visibility of the transactions in the blockchain enables anyone and everyone to confirm the validity of the ledger. Cryptonote does not have this visibility, therefore the validity of the transactions cannot be confirmed, which means there is no independent way of verifying that the implementation or the protocol have not been broken.

It could be broken, we dont know and we have no way of showing that it is not being exploited right now.

That's not true. You can verify Monero's coinbase as you do in Bitcoin.

Yes, but not the rest of the chain unfortunately.

generalizethis

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Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: barnaby47 on April 22, 2016, 09:38:32 AM

The visibility of the transactions in the blockchain enables anyone and everyone to confirm the validity of the ledger. Cryptonote does not have this visibility, therefore the validity of the transactions cannot be confirmed, which means there is no independent way of verifying that the implementation or the protocol have not been broken.

It could be broken, we dont know and we have no way of showing that it is not being exploited right now.

That's not true. You can verify Monero's coinbase as you do in Bitcoin.

barnaby47

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Quote from: J1mb0 on April 22, 2016, 07:37:15 AM

As for Cryptonote - it has been around long enough and disperate teams have been peer reviewing it long enough

yes ...

Quote from: J1mb0 on April 22, 2016, 07:37:15 AM

to be as trustworthy as any other cryptocurrency around.

but no. This is not a logical consequence of the statement above.

Bitcoin is trustworthy because:

Quote from: J1mb0 on April 22, 2016, 07:37:15 AM

In fact BitCoin transactions are meant to be available for scrutiny to anyone running core anywhere on the network.

The visibility of the transactions in the blockchain enables anyone and everyone to confirm the validity of the ledger. Cryptonote does not have this visibility, therefore the validity of the transactions cannot be confirmed, which means there is no independent way of verifying that the implementation or the protocol have not been broken.

It could be broken, we dont know and we have no way of showing that it is not being exploited right now.

J1mb0

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People shouldn't equate distributed with anonymity or privacy. In fact BitCoin transactions are meant to be available for scrutiny to anyone running core anywhere on the network.

As for Cryptonote - it has been around long enough and disperate teams have been peer reviewing it long enough to be as trustworthy as any other cryptocurrency around.

Dassi

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Quote from: Dink on April 21, 2016, 07:46:17 AM

Bitcoin is private to a point, but that privacy is mostly lost through the internet. Yes it seems we did get it wrong.

Unless your computer got hacked into, or you have a virus there, bitcoin is as private as it can be especially if you are using a paper wallet.

barnaby47

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Yup, privacy is more and more important in this age of mass surveillance.

But Monero? ... seriously?

Quote from Monero core dev about Monero:

Quote from: smooth on April 15, 2016, 06:39:55 PM

It dangerous experimental technology. Unless you are an expert capable of evaluating everything carefully and an extreme speculator, and in all cases capable of securing your crypto coins properly, you shouldn't buy it. If you have a short term use, well you still need to be able to secure your crypto coins properly, and no that doesn't mean GUI.

evergrow

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I understand there's a need for privacy. There certainly is. I don't know about Cryptonote and Monero though.

Probably I'm clueless Huh

evergrow

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I don't understand why this privacy advocated by Monero is so important. Bitcoin's privacy capabilities seem to be enough, right?

generalizethis

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on April 21, 2016, 02:36:53 PM

Quote from: shyliar on April 21, 2016, 01:09:13 PM

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on April 21, 2016, 12:27:34 PM

Cash is private. I pay for sex toys with $50 bills and no one has any idea who bought 'em. And the local sex shop doesn't take monero.

It's the security camera you need to be worried about.

Yes I agree with you 100%. Even with serial numbers, there isn't a way for the cops to determine that I bought my PCP with a certain $20 bill--unless it's a setup of course. It's those goddamn cameras and people filming everything with their cell phones.

I remember on Bill Maher's roundtable show that Marilyn Manson made one of the most astute observations about modern privacy I've encountered: that it isn't one Big Brother that is monitoring you, it's a whole bunch of Little Brothers.

Though, after the Snowden revelations, it's hard to argue that it isn't both working in conjunction to limit privacy at every turn. This may be motivated by the desire to control the desire that we deem abhorrent in ourselves through the control of others. What should frighten people most isn't that one person is capable of atrocities it's that when we give the state too much power over our lives that those atrocities are manifested through the state and carried out a million times over.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: shyliar on April 21, 2016, 01:09:13 PM

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on April 21, 2016, 12:27:34 PM

Cash is private. I pay for sex toys with $50 bills and no one has any idea who bought 'em. And the local sex shop doesn't take monero.

It's the security camera you need to be worried about.

Yes I agree with you 100%. Even with serial numbers, there isn't a way for the cops to determine that I bought my PCP with a certain $20 bill--unless it's a setup of course. It's those goddamn cameras and people filming everything with their cell phones.

Topic: What no privacy means (Read 1519 times)