What will change in bitcoin If permitted by Sataoshi Nakamoto?

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Wenbing on May 06, 2020, 07:55:50 AM

Here is what's Sotoshi Nakamoto want to achieve with a fixed bitcoin supply of 21m. He want become to be scarce asset.

Here's what Satoshi actually said on the matter:

Quote from: satoshi on February 06, 2010, 07:25:53 PM

Eventually at most only 21 million coins for 6.8 billion people in the world if it really gets huge.

But don't worry, there are another 6 decimal places that aren't shown, for a total of 8 decimal places internally. It shows 1.00 but internally it's 1.00000000. If there's massive deflation in the future, the software could show more decimal places.

Even if bitcoin became a global currency, he was in favor of sticking to the 21 million cap, and potentially forking to show more decimal places. As I said above, the Lightning Network already deals with milli-satoshi.

Quote from: Wenbing on May 06, 2020, 07:55:50 AM

1.21m of bitcoin in circulation can be termed as extreme scarcity.
2.30m of bitcoin in circulation can be termed as relative scarcity.

Says who? 21 million divided among 8 billion people is 0.002625 per person. 30 million divided among 8 billion people is 0.00375. It is impossible to say one is "extremely scarce" and the other is "relatively scarce".

Wenbing

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There is gold in volatility..

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on May 06, 2020, 04:30:08 AM

Quote from: Wenbing on May 06, 2020, 02:10:38 AM

The reason is simple. I feel the supply of Bitcoin at pegged 21m will be too limited for the global economy.

There is around $37 trillion in narrow money.
There is around $73 trillion in all stock markets combined.
There is around $90 trillion in broad money.
There is around $0.5 - 1 quadrillion in derivatives.

If we ever reached the point of 1 sat = 1 dollar, then 21 million bitcoin would be worth 2.1 quadrillion dollars, more than enough to cover every market in the world and then some. If you still think 21 million isn't enough, then a far better option to increasing the market cap is to subdivide it further. Lightning Network already works in milli-satoshi.

Fine analysis indeed.

But let me continue with your manner of economic analysis.

Here is what's Sotoshi Nakamoto want to achieve with a fixed bitcoin supply of 21m. He want become to be scarce asset.

Its based on the theory of Relative Scarcity of money.

Let me show your by example the difference between relative scarcity and extreme scarcity.

1.21m of bitcoin in circulation can be termed as extreme scarcity.
2.30m of bitcoin in circulation can be termed as relative scarcity.

While the former is too hard to make the latter is hard to make.

I feel bitcoin is better when its hard to make and not too hard to make.

avikz

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I understand it's a fun thread. But there are certain things I think, that will make bitcoin even better.

1. Fixed transaction fees - the current transaction fees is really dynamic and depends on a lot of factors. That's why whenever we see higher colume of transactions, the fees also goes higher. We have faced in back in late 2017. So if a fixed fees mechanism can be derived, that will be great and probably encourage a lot of merchants to adopt bitcoin as a payment method.

2. Increase the halving time by at least 8 years - we all know that bitcoin mining is a very costly affair nowadays. A person investing heavily on mining equipments, needs to see profit to continue operations. Increasing halving time will immensely benefit the miners who are mainly the backbone of the network. The current mining ROI is not enough to sustain an operation for a long time. Increasing halving time may help the miners.

Otherwise all are good at this moment!

Wenbing

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There is gold in volatility..

Quote from: Darker45 on May 06, 2020, 04:31:42 AM

What's with the 9 million, anyway? And how is that relevant to the global economy? Is that magical 9 million the exact quantity for Bitcoin to finally become perfect for the global economy? What is it with the global economy that specifically needs that 9 million additional supply?

The reason why I'm proposing an additional 9m Increase in supply of bitcoin is because with increase in adoption of bitcoin, I feel it may not be enough in global circulation.
Secondly it may be too scarce to get with increase in adoption and usage.

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Why not 9 or 10 years instead? Why does it have to be 8. Or 7 would be better I guess; that's a lucky number.

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The reason why I make it 8 years is based on the halving principle of 50% decrease in miners reward every four years. Let's make it 100% increase in the number of years before 50% halving of the reward of miners and bitcoin being mined.

Darker45

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Quote from: Wenbing on May 06, 2020, 02:10:38 AM

1. I'll increase the Bitcoin supply to be pegged at possibly 30million and the date for the last mining will still be 2140.

The reason is simple. I feel the supply of Bitcoin at pegged 21m will be too limited for the global economy.

What's with the 9 million, anyway? And how is that relevant to the global economy? Is that magical 9 million the exact quantity for Bitcoin to finally become perfect for the global economy? What is it with the global economy that specifically needs that 9 million additional supply?

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2. Adjusting the Bitcoin Halving. The Bitcoin Halving is currently in every four years were the reward of miners is halved. I'll now adjust make it every 8years.

The reason is this. The Bitcoin blockchain is working and running effectively because miners are working to maintain the ledger. Therefore, I want their reward to be sustained for a long time before the era of payment of transaction fee.

Why not 9 or 10 years instead? Why does it have to be 8. Or 7 would be better I guess; that's a lucky number.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Wenbing on May 06, 2020, 02:10:38 AM

The reason is simple. I feel the supply of Bitcoin at pegged 21m will be too limited for the global economy.

There is around $37 trillion in narrow money.
There is around $73 trillion in all stock markets combined.
There is around $90 trillion in broad money.
There is around $0.5 - 1 quadrillion in derivatives.

If we ever reached the point of 1 sat = 1 dollar, then 21 million bitcoin would be worth 2.1 quadrillion dollars, more than enough to cover every market in the world and then some. If you still think 21 million isn't enough, then a far better option to increasing the market cap is to subdivide it further. Lightning Network already works in milli-satoshi.

mk4

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Your first point has been refuted countless of times already in the past already, and in multiple communities too. Bitcoin is highly highly divisible, hence we have the satoshi denomination or "sats".

The only positive thing I could think of with a higher supply cap, is for bitcoin to have a lower price per unit. Unit bias is a real thing, there's a reason why a lot of people have been buying XRP in the past. With them thinking that their XRP will be worth the same as bitcoin in the future; which is definitely stupid. But regardless how stupid, I'd rather them putting their money on the real deal rather than some fidget spinner coin.

Janation

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Quote from: Wenbing on May 06, 2020, 02:10:38 AM

1. I'll increase the Bitcoin supply to be pegged at possibly 30million and the date for the last mining will still be 2140.

I think 21M is just enough.

It is not really at 21M right now since there are some bitcoins that are lost or stuck in a wallet that no one knows the code is to be moved. The lower the amount is, the better for its value and I think that is enough.

Quote from: Wenbing on May 06, 2020, 02:10:38 AM

2. Adjusting the Bitcoin Halving. The Bitcoin Halving is currently in every four years were the reward of miners is halved. I'll now adjust make it every 8years.

I think that would make it worse.

You are making the gap of these halving longer means more miners will be able to get Bitcoin before the next halving. Despite the additional 9 million, I don't think that would really help there. Satoshi Nakamoto is a genius, just think of it, no one really knows if people will really use it but despite that, he made it better so it would be programmed to be used until the future, the devs might misunderstand but I am talking about the halving.

Ucy

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The increase has to be accepted by the community via vote or something. Besides, the limited supply was meant to keep Bitcoin safe from inflation... The community has to analyze your proposal to make sure that implementating it doesn't keep Bitcoin price stunted short or long-term, which will violate its the deflationary principle.
I prefer a change that lessens extreme Bitcoin price volatility. In my opinion, the price should go up steadily and moderately... And down moderately and less steadily or something

joniboini

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Quote from: Wenbing on May 06, 2020, 02:10:38 AM

The reason is simple. I feel the supply of Bitcoin at pegged 21m will be too limited for the global economy.

What makes you believe that 9 million changes in supply are enough for the global economy? Why the current number is not enough anyway? Any calculation whatsoever or this is just another gut-feeling?

Quote from: Paycoinzzz on May 06, 2020, 02:38:49 AM

Actually , I believe that Nakatomo Satoshi is one of the powerful manipulated whales in this market. he's just hiding his identity to control this market and make lots of money. If he wanted to be good for bitcoin, he would have upgraded bitcoin before and wouldn't let bitcoin be as slow as it is now. From the beginning, he wanted to create a genuine Defi, not a place to invest in technology.

Your conspiracy theory is interesting. I never knew satoshi was such a powerful man.

Paycoinzzz

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Actually , I believe that Nakatomo Satoshi is one of the powerful manipulated whales in this market. he's just hiding his identity to control this market and make lots of money. If he wanted to be good for bitcoin, he would have upgraded bitcoin before and wouldn't let bitcoin be as slow as it is now. From the beginning, he wanted to create a genuine Defi, not a place to invest in technology.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: Wenbing on May 06, 2020, 02:10:38 AM

If I'm given the permission by Staoshi Nakamoto to innovate or change something in bitcoin. Here are the two things I'll do and the reason why I'll do them.

1. I'll increase the Bitcoin supply to be pegged at possibly 30million and the date for the last mining will still be 2140.
2. Adjusting the Bitcoin Halving. The Bitcoin Halving is currently in every four years were the reward of miners is halved. I'll now adjust make it every 8years.

You don't need permission. Just fork the repo. Make your changes. Start mining the new block chain. I recommend that you call it something other than "Bitcoin", though.

1. Why? Can you explain why you think that 2100000000000000 satoshis is limiting, and why changing it to 3000000000000000 satoshis is so much better?

2. In the long run, the amount that any individual miner earns depends more on their operational efficiency than the size of the block reward. That may seem counter-intuitive, but that's how the economics of mining work. If anything, the halvings should be more frequent so that they are less of a shock on the economy.

Wenbing

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There is gold in volatility..

I have studied the Bitcoin's white paper which is generally and fashionably called the Bible of bitcoin.

Well, I've been thinking lately about some of the fundamental principles of Bitcoin as stated on the Bitcoin bible authored by Satoshi Nakamoto.

If I'm given the permission by Staoshi Nakamoto to innovate or change something in bitcoin. Here are the two things I'll do and the reason why I'll do them.

1. I'll increase the Bitcoin supply to be pegged at possibly 30million and the date for the last mining will still be 2140.

The reason is simple. I feel the supply of Bitcoin at pegged 21m will be too limited for the global economy.

2. Adjusting the Bitcoin Halving. The Bitcoin Halving is currently in every four years were the reward of miners is halved. I'll now adjust make it every 8years.

That means after 2020 halving the next one will be in 2028.
.
The reason is this. The Bitcoin blockchain is working and running effectively because miners are working to maintain the ledger. Therefore, I want their reward to be sustained for a long time before the era of payment of transaction fee.

What do you think will be the effects of the Proposed changes to the bitcoin ecosystem?

What'll like to change in bitcoin fundamental principles if permitted by Sataoshi Nakamoto?

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