What would you consider a new ATH? | Bitcointalksearch.org

takingthis4

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Quote from: JimboToronto on March 02, 2017, 03:28:28 PM

Quote from: d5000 on January 04, 2017, 03:28:52 PM

What would you consider a new ATH?

Today's high.

Then, hopefully tomorrow's.

Cheesy

hahahah yeah, no matter which one was the real previous high it is now broken and we set a new all time high, that's it guys that's the day we long waited since mtgox and it has finally arrived. Let's hope that the price is not going to stop here and that it will go up to at least 1500 dollars now.

Quote from: valta4065 on February 25, 2017, 08:29:54 AM

Don't worry, you'll never have to ask this question when BTC will reach 1350, destroying all previous ATH Cool

No reason for the rise to really stop. The small dump isn't going to do anything!

your guesses became the truth, to be honest most of the people 2 years ago told me that bitcoin is shit and it is never going to return to it's high prices, now I can laugh at them all I want...

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Quote from: d5000 on January 04, 2017, 03:28:52 PM

What would you consider a new ATH?

Today's high.

Then, hopefully tomorrow's.

Cheesy

d5000

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Well, now all major ATH's have been broken, Gold parity too. We can close this thread now Wink

(Oh wait: The CNY 8.888 ATH still holds Wink

But it is from 2017 not from 2013)

Post-ATH analysis:

There was less resistance at the MtGox high than I expected. So I think the majority of traders have considered the Bitstamp ATH of $1163 the most important one - we saw that in January there were successful shorts at this price mark. But at the end, the uptrend proved to be stronger than all resistance.

I think above all the ETF speculation should have paved the way to the new highs. It is very rational to think that an approval would mean at least a 30-40% increase over the ATH, and that a disapproval wouldn't lead to a crash that couldn't be recovered that year. (My prediction is: in the case of an approval, we will near the 2000 mark, and in case of a disapproval, a crash to 780-900. The only thing that could lead to a longer bear market is a continuation of the SegWit stalemate.)

uki

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Quote from: JimboToronto on February 24, 2017, 07:45:33 PM

I said it in the wall observer and I'll say it again here: I consider gold ounce parity to be the real ATH.

Fiat prices vary as we've seen, but gold was the original real money.

When we briefly passed the price of an ounce of gold in 2013, it was immediately dumped down and very soon after that China banned bitcoin use by its banks and the price plummeted.

We haven't touched it since.

That is a very nice observation, as the initial idea of Satoshi was actually to emulate the behaviour of real gold. Bitcoin very quickly went to the price of gold in 2013, and then there was a long correction, so most of people (myself included) forgot about going to the parity level. And now, out of the sudden, we are back at these level again. Gold in the meantime was held below $1300 level for four years. That only illustrates how humongous this current Bitcoin pump is. I doubt however we stay for longer at these levels.

d5000

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For now, MtGox's high seems to hold ... we're again at the levels of the Finex/Stamp highs and there was even a very small dump intent. We'll see on Monday if my prediction of "in 3 days it will be broken" is true Wink

JimboToronto also may be true that the resistance over 1220 may be due to the gold parity. Actually, the gold ounce price is at $1257. Gold is the standard speculation and saving vehicle in the finance industry, and also many Bitcoiners are sympathizing with Gold standards (above all, the Austrian School sympathizants, which are the majority of Bitcoin supporters) - so gold parity in my opinion is a relevant price mark.

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Don't worry, you'll never have to ask this question when BTC will reach 1350, destroying all previous ATH Cool

No reason for the rise to really stop. The small dump isn't going to do anything!

BitDane

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Record is record I think the new ATH should pass the price of Mt.Gox even though it was manipulated way back that year, the price touched $1242, and it was one of the biggest exchange platform back then. So for me the new ATH would be surpassing $1242 per Bitcoin.

Seansky

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Well for me the new all time high that I would consider is the all time high that was higher than any of the price listed on the poll thus I choose other / wtf / omg / moon choice. I won't say it is new all time high unless it is 1$ higher than MtGox ATH which was considered the highest price that we have seen on bitcoin since it started. If it won't reach that price which is 1243$ I wouldn't even consider it as a new all time high.

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Quote from: alani123 on February 24, 2017, 07:48:50 PM

Quote from: Silberman on February 24, 2017, 04:44:58 PM

This is a nice question OP since not everyone will have the same opinion but in a few weeks or months the question will be irrelevant and we will witness new ATH and the discussion will be over for good.

The latest price rise, (whilst more global and seemingly organic within the now larger bitcoin economy compared to the previous one), could very well be a product of price manipulation. If that's the case, support for such high prices wouldn't be sustainable for long. IMO, it's not too likely for the price to keep breaking all time highs on the following weeks, although that'd be nice.

It is a product of a manipulation, no doubt about it. If we look at the last, say, nine months, when price was below $500, not much has changed on the fundamental side. At least I don't see development increasing significantly the adoption that would justify more than twofold increase.

blockcha1n

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Anything above the old mt.gox ath would be a good enough for me.
What was it at $1242. So set it at $1250 just to be sure about it and no more quams about it from anyone when it comes up again.
Mmm.. okaaay? Cheesy

alani123

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Quote from: Silberman on February 24, 2017, 04:44:58 PM

This is a nice question OP since not everyone will have the same opinion but in a few weeks or months the question will be irrelevant and we will witness new ATH and the discussion will be over for good.

The latest price rise, (whilst more global and seemingly organic within the now larger bitcoin economy compared to the previous one), could very well be a product of price manipulation. If that's the case, support for such high prices wouldn't be sustainable for long. IMO, it's not too likely for the price to keep breaking all time highs on the following weeks, although that'd be nice.

JimboToronto

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You're never too old to think young.

I said it in the wall observer and I'll say it again here: I consider gold ounce parity to be the real ATH.

Fiat prices vary as we've seen, but gold was the original real money.

When we briefly passed the price of an ounce of gold in 2013, it was immediately dumped down and very soon after that China banned bitcoin use by its banks and the price plummeted.

We haven't touched it since.

Silberman

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This is a nice question OP since not everyone will have the same opinion but in a few weeks or months the question will be irrelevant and we will witness new ATH and the discussion will be over for good.

uki

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Quote from: BitHodler on February 24, 2017, 06:44:38 AM

Quote from: uki on February 24, 2017, 06:15:01 AM

Quote from: digaran on February 24, 2017, 05:31:52 AM

Here is the thing, bitcoin has no ATH and shouldn't have at all, if you think price will rise even more than $1200 then you should go for it with all you've got. have you ever thought about the last year? when price was at $400 ranges, what stops you from buying now?
How much bitcoin really worth to you? are you just waiting for others to risk their money to push the price towards the ATH?

Buying right now is very risky if you ask me. Have a look at the technical indicators and how much space do they have to the upside. Of course we can continue to rise for a while longer, but risk/reward is a bit too big for me to consider buying at these price levels.

Buying at current prices for short term purposes is a gamble since the price can literally move into any direction at this point.

But if you just plan to hodl your coins for at least a year, (preferably longer of course) then you can still enter at these prices. It all depends on your intentions.

Tell that people who entered for hodling next to the Mt. Gox top. I guess many sold below $500.
It is not my risk/reward game to enter at these levels. Even short term, it is not worth playing. Not any more.

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Quote from: Apraksin on February 24, 2017, 04:54:31 AM

Gox ATH is the psychological point regardless of all the fuzz that went on there at the time. I will not consider ATH broken before we pass 1242 $.

The price evolution seems to confirm this after the 1220->1090 dump. There seems to be much more resistance at this point than at the Bitstamp/Finex highs. But price is rapidly increasing again and I expect the next attack to $1220-1240 range in the next 24 hours.

It would be good to consolidate first (let's say a sideways market between 1160 and 1200) to break through in a sustainable way, but traders are not rational beings in front of a rally Grin

@TimoY: You are obvously right ... but the people that got out their money in December were still smarter than the believers that stayed there until the end ... that were not so few (I was among the lucky people who smelled the shit late but still got their BTC out, although I never had large funds in MtGox).

BitHodler

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Quote from: uki on February 24, 2017, 06:15:01 AM

Quote from: digaran on February 24, 2017, 05:31:52 AM

Here is the thing, bitcoin has no ATH and shouldn't have at all, if you think price will rise even more than $1200 then you should go for it with all you've got. have you ever thought about the last year? when price was at $400 ranges, what stops you from buying now?
How much bitcoin really worth to you? are you just waiting for others to risk their money to push the price towards the ATH?

Buying right now is very risky if you ask me. Have a look at the technical indicators and how much space do they have to the upside. Of course we can continue to rise for a while longer, but risk/reward is a bit too big for me to consider buying at these price levels.

Buying at current prices for short term purposes is a gamble since the price can literally move into any direction at this point.

But if you just plan to hodl your coins for at least a year, (preferably longer of course) then you can still enter at these prices. It all depends on your intentions.

Apraksin

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Moon?

Quote from: digaran on February 24, 2017, 05:31:52 AM

are you just waiting for others to risk their money to push the price towards the ATH?

Yes

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Quote from: digaran on February 24, 2017, 05:31:52 AM

Here is the thing, bitcoin has no ATH and shouldn't have at all, if you think price will rise even more than $1200 then you should go for it with all you've got. have you ever thought about the last year? when price was at $400 ranges, what stops you from buying now?
How much bitcoin really worth to you? are you just waiting for others to risk their money to push the price towards the ATH?

Buying right now is very risky if you ask me. Have a look at the technical indicators and how much space do they have to the upside. Of course we can continue to rise for a while longer, but risk/reward is a bit too big for me to consider buying at these price levels.

digaran

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🖤😏

Here is the thing, bitcoin has no ATH and shouldn't have at all, if you think price will rise even more than $1200 then you should go for it with all you've got. have you ever thought about the last year? when price was at $400 ranges, what stops you from buying now?
How much bitcoin really worth to you? are you just waiting for others to risk their money to push the price towards the ATH?

uki

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Quote from: afbitcoins on January 04, 2017, 04:40:51 PM

Gox was the biggest exchange at the time and the place everyone used as a proxy for bitcoin price so I go with the GOX price (at least for in US$ )

I agree. You have to take the context from these days into account. Back then it was Mt. Gox and pretty much only Mt. Gox. Therefore, and despite the price manipulation scheme, their result should be considered as the ATH value. Still, this discussion is not really important as these are just chartists tricks to paint the chart - one off transaction bears much less meaning than price at volume information.

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Moon?

Gox ATH is the psychological point regardless of all the fuzz that went on there at the time. I will not consider ATH broken before we pass 1242 $.

1Referee

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Quote from: d5000 on February 23, 2017, 10:42:27 PM

Now the third step is the MtGox ATH of $1242. Due to the fast breakthrough at $1163 and $1175, I estimate there could be a little bit more of resistance. Also it has taken the lead in the poll. But I don't think that it could stop the rally train for more than 1-2 days. As all "Bitcoin veterans" know it was a fake ATH because cashing out fiat out of MtGox at this time was still possible but the bank wires needed more than three weeks - so there was a lot of uncertainty and smart people already tried to get their BTC out of there.

It will create a great feeling of relief once we smash the Gox ATH to pieces. I think Mark is still looking proudly at the charts that the price has still not broken through *his* artificially created ATH.

Quote from: TimoY on February 24, 2017, 04:05:31 AM

Smart people already tried to get their BTC out of mtgox in the summer of 2014. All the warning signs that there was something seriously wrong with mtgox were already loud and clear by then. If you waited for as long as December 2014 to get your BTC out, you were not smart.

Even at the time frame you're referring to it was still difficult for people to cash out funds (cashing out BTC was next to impossibe). In that regard it should have been clear far earlier that this exchange should have been avoided. MtGox was releasing funds every now and then to keep the impression alive that they do process cashouts, while in fact it was utterly difficult. Those that MtGox let cash out are the lucky ones.

talkbitcoin

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All I know is that I know nothing.

i disagree with even talking about a "Bubble Price". because such price has been fake and should be ignored. so all the prices during 2013 bubble should be ignored and the prices that we saw so far were each ATH.

the newest one was $1166 on bitfinex and now it has been broken since we are above $1200

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Quote from: d5000 on February 23, 2017, 10:42:27 PM

smart people already tried to get their BTC out of there.

Smart people already tried to get their BTC out of mtgox in the summer of 2014. All the warning signs that there was something seriously wrong with mtgox were already loud and clear by then. If you waited for as long as December 2014 to get your BTC out, you were not smart.

d5000

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The Bitstamp and Bitfinex ATH's didn't show much resistance. I wouldn't have predicted such a fast break-through. But I'm personally OK with it Grin

- and as the upswing was slower than in other occasions it was also more sustainable.

Now the third step is the MtGox ATH of $1242. Due to the fast breakthrough at $1163 and $1175, I estimate there could be a little bit more of resistance. Also it has taken the lead in the poll. But I don't think that it could stop the rally train for more than 1-2 days. As all "Bitcoin veterans" know it was a fake ATH because cashing out fiat out of MtGox at this time was still possible but the bank wires needed more than three weeks - so there was a lot of uncertainty and smart people already tried to get their BTC out of there.

Text

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I consider the highest ATH which is the 1200+, it is more challenging if we know we are wanting to break the highest value. I also believe that this is the time, this year we will break the ATH and I don't doubt it. The bitcoin trends very smoothly.

tn211

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If the bitcoin ETH goes through really the sky is the limit. A lot of investment firms will join this revolution.

Else we may see bitcoin rise to 1500 dollars this year. But beating the last ATH will happen, i've thought about it and yes now is the time.

poloniexwhale

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The previous ATH were broken because bitcoin is so huge market, and it will bull for a long time, I hope we can hit 10000 usd for a new and impressive ATH.

Pearls Before Swine

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I chose the Bitfinex value, because Mt. Gox in 2013 was just schizophrenically out of touch with all known measures of reality. That can't be our ATH whenever we reach it.

Related to this, I do think we're going to be approaching it fairly shortly, just by momentum alone. We've been flatlined at $1050 for a bit, and I'm anticipating a shot up to $1100.

d5000

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OK, we're approaching the ATH again - $1100 were touched this evening by Bitfinex. So this thread gets relevant again and I think we'll test again the levels of the December/January rally.

The recovery was a bit strange this time - much slower - and more sustainable - than in similar "dumps after highs" in 2013. So it's definitively possible that we'll also test the MtGox high. But first we'll see if the Bitstamp ATH still is regarded valid by the trader community. My guess is that there will be much resistance again at that level ($1140-63).

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Quote from: Le Happy Merchant on January 05, 2017, 03:33:20 AM

I remember Mt. Gox going to $1250.

1242 USD is correct according to http://bitcoinity.org/markets/mtgox/USD. Also bitcoincharts.com shows that BTC on MtGox never reached $1250, nor on the first top on November 29, 2013 nor on the second on December 4/5 of the same year.

Well, we've seen now: Traders have agreed that the Bitstamp ATH is at least a major resistance. Let's see how this plays out Wink

(I'm still bullish, although a sideways or bearish market would be better for Bitcoin now until SegWit is enabled.)

Le Happy Merchant

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I remember Mt. Gox going to $1250.

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Quote from: Amph on January 05, 2017, 03:01:27 AM

2k? but a real ath should be 10x time higher, of the previous stable value

if we consider the previous stable one $700, then you need to reach $7k, which is highly improbable

one would think that passing above 1200 would be the new ath, but it is not even 2x the recent stable value($700), so i would just view it as a regular increase

uhm... ATH means all time high. so if the price is even 1 cent higher than the old ath it is a new ATH by definition. hence the discussion what is the ath at the moment. But i would not be surprised to see an end to this discussion very soon because btc established a new ath on all exchanges.

Amph

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2k? but a real ath should be 10x time higher, of the previous stable value

if we consider the previous stable one $700, then you need to reach $7k, which is highly improbable

one would think that passing above 1200 would be the new ath, but it is not even 2x the recent stable value($700), so i would just view it as a regular increase

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Quote from: Lauda on January 04, 2017, 08:03:57 PM

The Mt.Gox ATH was likely caused solely by that Willy bot that was absurdly pumping the price. The exchange was likely insolvent long before the ATH even occured. I don't see why anyone would use that as the ATH.

The Bitstamp ATH should be the one that everyone uses for the USD ATH, BTCC for CNY ATH.

^^^ absolutely correct. MTGox was already insolvent prior.

log2exp

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Mt.Gox ATH + 5% inflation over the years is the true new ATH.

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I consider $1300 the new ATH. The price is different on all exchanges, so no point in celebrating if it's just barely passed the previous ATH.

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China has magnitudes more volume than any US exchange. 20-40m compared to 2-4b, it's not even close. It's there, "ATH" is purely a formality at this stage, but may form barriers to price.

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Quote from: European Central Bank on January 04, 2017, 08:02:19 PM

Quote from: eddie13 on January 04, 2017, 08:01:08 PM

Well, if you account for the inflation of USD since the gox ATH then the new real ATH should be 1286 IMO..

don't forget that there were several million fewer coins around too.

Touche' ..
I did make a thread and was pretty excited when we broke ATH marketcap.. Maybe we should be looking at ATH markeycap adjusted for inflation?

Would be about $14.5 billion
We've smoked it by $4B

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Terminated.

The Mt.Gox ATH was likely caused solely by that Willy bot that was absurdly pumping the price. The exchange was likely insolvent long before the ATH even occured. I don't see why anyone would use that as the ATH.

The Bitstamp ATH should be the one that everyone uses for the USD ATH, BTCC for CNY ATH.

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Honestly don't mind with the target listed at the poll. Once able to break all price targets there then that was the new ATH.

Besides the only based rates that I have been following is our local exchange rates since this exchange is the only one who can convert our bitcoin into fiat currency of ours with decent rates.

Im currently trading @bitstamp so even I get a decent USD value from there, once I transferred it in our local exchanger still not a fair value I will received.

European Central Bank

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Quote from: eddie13 on January 04, 2017, 08:01:08 PM

Well, if you account for the inflation of USD since the gox ATH then the new real ATH should be 1286 IMO..

don't forget that there were several million fewer coins around too.

eddie13

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Well, if you account for the inflation of USD since the gox ATH then the new real ATH should be 1286 IMO..

European Central Bank

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Quote from: afbitcoins on January 04, 2017, 07:52:20 PM

My understanding is that that happened after the all time high not before. I never used GOX myself but did refer to its charts. Towards the end it was unreliable as a price indicator but at the time of the all time high it was still legit

it was happening for several months before, i think from mid 2013 it had become borderline impossible. in theory you could but hardly anything was going through.

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Quote from: European Central Bank on January 04, 2017, 04:51:44 PM

Quote from: afbitcoins on January 04, 2017, 04:40:51 PM

Gox was the biggest exchange at the time and the place everyone used as a proxy for bitcoin price so I go with the GOX price (at least for in US$ )

but the only reason for the premium was that you couldn't get dollars out of it. that doesn't exactly do a bunch for its credibility as a price setter.

My understanding is that that happened after the all time high not before. I never used GOX myself but did refer to its charts. Towards the end it was unreliable as a price indicator but at the time of the all time high it was still legit

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Now that some have already voted (pretty close between Bitstamp and Gox), my 5 satoshis:

I think the Bitstamp ATH would be the most "correct" because MtGox's price was distorted to the upside and actually we don't have a "Gox price" to compare with. But at the other hand, I think MtGox's 2013 high is well-known among traders.

So I would agree to European Central Bank and others: The new ATH is _really_ in when all three marks have been sustainably broken. That would be a major buying signal and in my opinion we can safely say that in this case we'll see at least (conservatively said) $1400 or $1500.

oblomov

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Printing a 1,3xx handle would erase all doubt.

Although MtGox was the largest exchange at the time, the price was being artificially juiced there.

xDan

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for completeness we may as well break them all Wink

European Central Bank

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Quote from: afbitcoins on January 04, 2017, 04:40:51 PM

Gox was the biggest exchange at the time and the place everyone used as a proxy for bitcoin price so I go with the GOX price (at least for in US$ )

but the only reason for the premium was that you couldn't get dollars out of it. that doesn't exactly do a bunch for its credibility as a price setter.

afbitcoins

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Gox was the biggest exchange at the time and the place everyone used as a proxy for bitcoin price so I go with the GOX price (at least for in US$ )

AmDD

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I only look at it in USD, other countries monies dont mean much to me.

The average between the three is $1193 but I also agree that I'll celebrate when all are broken. $1200 here we come!

European Central Bank

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definitely, definitely not gox. i'll go for bitfinex's ath on bitstamp. then we'll know we're rolling properly.

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Quote from: d5000 on January 04, 2017, 03:28:52 PM

What price mark can be considered the valid USD ATH until now?

BTC has already broken the Chinese ATH of ~7500 Yuan. The same can be said for the Euro ATH in the ~900 area. But both currencies now have lower values respect to the USD than in 2013. And there are multiple USD ATH's to be considered.

So which one do you consider the right one? When will you post rocket and fireworks pics?

The MtGox ATH was the highest and on the most popular exchange, but at this moment were already problems with fiat withdrawals, so MtGox regularly had higher prices than the other exchanges.
The Bitstamp ATH or Bitfinex ATH are pretty close one to the other and can be compared to today, but these exchanges were small in 2013.
Or would you consider the Chinese or even the Euro ATH more important than the USD one?

When they are ALL broken.

d5000

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What price mark can be considered the valid USD ATH (all time price high) until now?

BTC has already broken the Chinese ATH of ~7500 Yuan. The same can be said for the Euro ATH in the ~900 area. But both currencies now have lower values respect to the USD than in 2013. And there are multiple USD ATH's to be considered.

So which one do you consider the right one? When will you post rocket and fireworks pics?

The MtGox ATH was the highest and on the most popular exchange, but at this moment were already problems with fiat withdrawals, so MtGox regularly had higher prices than the other exchanges.
The Bitstamp ATH or Bitfinex ATH are pretty close one to the other and can be compared to today, but these exchanges were small in 2013.
Or would you consider the Chinese or even the Euro ATH more important than the USD one?

Topic: What would you consider a new ATH? (Read 2706 times)