Topic: What's the justification for this? (Read 325 times)

This is a very sad and heartbreaking incident. The most serious thing in the world is that people do not get services even in such a critical situation. Such policies should be withdrawn because people's lives are above all. If a person is a criminal ‍and his life is in danger he should be cleared first and brought to justice. It is an act against humanity.

apart from not knowing whose life you're jocking with, do they even put themselves in the victims shoe and imagine that if for instance they 're at someone's Mercy but the person refused helping out because he was even unconscious to speak out for himself?  You see the passage of the Bible that says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you., if only we abide by a fraction of that, then the world will be far more better in many ways.

For the part of refusal to treat victim before payment is being made, the excuse has always been that they've treated people in the past that ended up not paying for thier treatments, as a medical person, if you aren't ready to sacrifice some little things for the lives of the people you've signed to save, then you've not started your medical journey at all.

In some or major aspects, it's money that talks but rarely do they need a police report if you were gunned but the bottom line there is, lives should be put first before all these. You may not know whose life you were playing with just because you are trying to follow due process.
Seriously the health sector in my country is whack. Even some so-called government owned hospitals are nothing to write about.

Nothing to hold as a reasonable statement as to why victim of any incidents or accidents are not giving medical attention first before requesting for official statement or financial deposits. Yes, it might have been the case here but some months back, all of these has been reviewed by the government that any victim should first be admitted and given medical attention before any further investigation or compliance.

If the victim has a bullet injury which reflects having illegal stories behind then after giving full medications, the hospital can contact the police for further investigation while the person is still undergoing treatment, it's better to apprehend the victim than letting him die.

This is a law in some countries but not applicable in all countries, however I really don't see anything good in letting someone with a gun wound die because of police report, I think the right thing to do is to treat the person and in the process of treatment inform the police and let them come before the patient releaser.
There are some laws that are not good and should be amended as soon as possible, because this laws is inhuman and will cause more harm than good to the society in general.

I like this statement of yours here because regardless of any crime an individual may commit, we all have the right to live. Even if a person wounded by gunshots was to be a criminal, they can have information that are sensitive if they are caught alive instead of allowing them to be helpless when being taken to the hospital all in the name of demanding for police report. If the government actually wants a criminal to die then they have a way of doing it either by sentencing them to life imprisonment or by a firing squad after being convicted and found guilty of committing a crime so the government should rather abolish such laws of hospitals not attending to patients wounded by gunshots except a police report is issued.

However, it's really very sad to hear that some countries still engage in this kind of wicked act against her people, such situations like this are very rare in western countries.

I have never heard of such a case in my country and I think perhaps each country has different regulations. I also have several neighbors who are doctors and nurses. According to them, hospitalization and treatment will not be possible if someone cannot pay the hospital fees. If the patient and the patient's family do not have money but the doctor persists in treatment, the hospital fees will be transferred to that doctor. Meanwhile, doctors' salaries are not too high, so most doctors in my country will refuse treatment if they don't have money for hospital fees. I don't blame the doctors because they still have families and lives, I'm just sad because the government's policy towards the health sector is not satisfactory.

Morally this is not good and there’s no justification for this. Every life matters and the most important thing is to save a life first before digging up on how to settle the bills or find out more on what really happens to have caused that injury sustained by the victim. In a country where the medical system is top notch and also free to access to all citizens, I don’t think much inquiry is needed before going ahead to treat the person to save his or her life. Only in countries that their medical facilities is not free and citizens have to pay or make a deposit will enforce such on accident victims. In my country, it use to be so, but I read in one of the local news that it has been lifted and they can be treated before further investigating into the matter. I just hope it comes to live, because saying is one thing and taking action towards that is another thing.

It is unethical for a medical practitioner to refuse treatment of a an injured person or a sick person in emergency situations especially when he is capable of handling such situation. I won't really blame any hospital that refuses treatment of an injured person simply because no police report was provided, the government should be blamed for imposing such an inhumane law that has no regards for the life of it's citizens. A wanted person will still face the law after treatment.

Every citizen of a country whether a criminal or not has right to life. If at any point a citizen loses his life because of his inability to provide a statement from the police, then thesame  government who gave the citizens this right to enjoy has deprived him of such right.

This is really a very bad situation I must say because even if a wounded person as a result of gun shot was to be a criminal don't the government or whosoever that enact such laws know that that criminal can be helpful if they are treated and are alive and instead of not attending to such a wounded patient it will be preferable to treat the patient then call the police to verify if the victim is a criminal. Very sad to hear some nasty laws that the government imposes that are very unfair, regardless of whosoever that is wounded as a result of gun shot they should receive treatments first before any form of interrogation or whatsoever.

Even in some government hospitals they still demand for deposits before administering to an accident victim and not only in private hospitals, some government hospitals doesn't even have enough facilities to administer to patients not to talk of accident victims. But for private hospitals, you can't blame them because some of the experiences losses if the patients or the family of the accident victims are unable to pay for the hospital bills. I have heard of a private hospital not allowing a patient to be discharged because his family was unable to settle his hospital bills. But for me the work of the medical practitioners and doctors is to save lives without minding the aftermath after the patient must have been treated.

I think it depends on the doctor that is in charge of the hospital because some doctors are very stubborn and heartless, some doctors might decide to treat you when you pay the hospital bills but some very stubborn doctors will want to know what happens and get evidence before you get treated, some doctors follow their rules that they will not attend to a accident that concerns criminal issues, I have seen a doctor who refused to attend to a patient because he was injured and it was a fight, so some doctors are not going to treat a patient if they know that the cause of the accident is a serious issue, I’m just saying from what I’ve seen before, some doctors are very stubborn and heartless.

We have to change this system, it doesn't fit in any system, because when a person comes to the hospital with an injury, the doctor's first duty is to treat him, there is no need for the doctor to see who he is, why he is injured, whether he is a thief or not. , someone comes to the hospital injured, just treat him, do what you do. If he's a thief there's a police to watch, then you'll be a cop at that time? And ignore him for his entire history instead of treatment?

just change this system.

being shot is not a crime in of itself. so dont fear getting arrested just for being shot, and dont avoid hospital. if you are shot you would usually be treated as the victim, so go to hospital. they wont refuse service/medical care due to gun shot. they will treat you and you might have to give witness statement as a victim once conscious/stable

doctors can and do treat patients with gun wounds..
.. what the doctors have to do firstly is treat the patient and secondarily try to preserve evidence.

they do have to have their administration/reception team inform the police of a patient with gunshot wounds, but this does not mean avoid treating the patient until police arrive. it does not mean treating the patient as a perpetrator/criminal

seems some people think that watching TV where they think they will get arrested if they go to hospital and instead (tv drama) seek medical attention from a buddy or a animal care facility. .. but thats tv drama

reality is when you go to hospital your injuries are dealt with and separately via the hospital management, the police are informed and attend and yes if conscious the police will ask for a statement and decide if the gunshot is related to being a victim or if its due to a mutual harm between criminals or being shot by someone else who was defending themself

---

as for people again watching TV, it seems people think that people wont be treated unless they pre-pay.. this is only true for elective/cosmetic treatment. but when it comes to emergency care. treatment comes first, and arrangements for hospitals funding is handled afterwards(many countries even the US actually do have public hospitals that do tax payer(publicly) funded emergency care. but thats something the accountants handle after the treatment
and no ambulances do not act as taxies, wanting the fare paid upfront before driving to hospital

This is the sad reality in my country and people have been calling for a ban on this wicked law where people with gunshot wounds are denied treatments in the hospitals. I've heard about many cases where people with gunshot wounds are left to die without getting treatment because they can not provide a police report that they're not thieves. You'll wonder how an innocent person that is shot will first go to a police station to obtain a report before going to the hospital for treatment, many people sees this law as very senseless. Although I've heard that our legislatures are looking into changing it but I don't how far they've gone about it.

About leaving accident victims to die if they don't have money to make deposits first in the hospitals, this depends on the hospital. I know that some will give first aid and wait for deposits to be made to them before proceeding to give any major treatments. I believe this practice is mainly in private hospitals, I believe that government hospitals will admit the accident victims and give treatment before asking for money.

What country is this the the doctors let patients die until they get payment?

it's 💯 real life experience I have seen, heard, read and known in my locality. I lot of people have lost thier lives in the process because they were refused treatment because the source of the gun wound were yet to be identified and there are dozens of cases that are verifiable where accidents victim were refused treatment and in some cases after the initial treatment that's more of a first aid treatment and money is not being paid on time, the victim get neglected to the point of death.
for the country, my local board clearly spells it out but I had earlier thought it's part of a medical principle to get treat fun would patient differently from any other patient and for the case of accident victims, i guess most of the hospitals are yet to come to term with service to humanity as opposed to doing Business. Most of them would rather have someone die in Thier hands if he's unable to pay for his bills than treat the person for free.

Is this based on an actual news story?   What country are you in?  I'd love to know where doctors will let people die due to politics.

There is one guy who's a former neurosurgeon that went viral with his video explaining why he left his medical practice and chose to leave in the mountains.

I Was An MIT Educated Neurosurgeon Now I'm Unemployed And Alone In The Mountains How Did I Get Here?

And the summary of it is that, he's said that hospitals are for the business. It's simple as that and I was also in that situation before that we have to deposit before the admission and it's a terrible ruling by these hospitals. They used to save lives before although many of them still does, but the majority of them are for the profit and business. It's a sad truth that the medical industry is ran by profiteers.

I am pretty sure this violates something in the oath they took. Their duty is different from the duty of police officers and lawyers. They all took oaths to serve the people but in different ways. Medical professionals made an oath to cure and treat everyone equally as much as they can.

No matter how good or bad of a person they are treating, they have to give all their best and treat that person like how they will treat any other patient. It is not their duty to serve justice.

Post history has local posts in Nigeria, so i am guessing this is a thing in there, because i've never heard anything like this. It could be related to some rules about aiding criminals or financial issue, because i am guessing if someone has to pay the treatment, and based on what has happened, it depends who covers the medical bills.

Morally speaking this is messed up. I wonder if rules change if you pay up before the treatment, or if it's a technicality that must be followed blindly.

True professionalism entails that we understand the place of exceptional cases to whatever we hold as what our profession spells out for us. You can't tell me you're following up on what's the role of practice as a medical doctor or an health personal and you sit back and watch someone die under your watch without rendering an helping hands. If that's even clearly written down as a law that every health personnel has to abide by, you have to at least treat the person and maybe handcuff him untill it's confirmed that the source of the gun wound isn't related to an arm rubbery or killing case.

It's purely inhumane and wicked to openly watch a fellow human being die under your watch when you have what it takes to prevent such from happening and your excuse will be that you want to follow due process. And these same people will alter their stand the moment most of the are offered some money or called by an higher authority. Well, I don't even need to ask the country this happens because from all indication, this can happen in a third world country where the laws are made to make life more miserable for the poor and less previledged.

Is it true that the doctors are waiting for the police's decision or that the victim and the victim's family do not have money to pay hospital fees? Because if he was the only witness to some crime, I think they would need to rescue him immediately without waiting for a decision. Or like the accident you witnessed, so I think the problem here is money.

What I see is that health policies in third world countries are not as good as in other developed countries. Similar to my country, if you are hospitalized in critical condition but do not have enough hospital fees to complete the hospitalization procedures, you will not be treated promptly. It's a shame when it comes to the ethics of my country's medical industry, but we can't do anything else.

And what country are you talking about?

 There's no justification if you ask me because I see no reason why you will be invested in either asking for a deposit first before attending to someone at death's door or demand a police report if the person was shot by a gunshot. Heck, at that moment, they are helpless and need all the helping they can get but some hospitals will tell you they are following protocols. Yes I know you'd want to get careful after you've been burned once or twice, but in my country, they don't seem to care. If anything, the hospitals lack the empathy for such people as to them, everyone will die.
 Lots of money is being channeled into the health sector yet you will find out that they are no adequate equipments in some of the hospitals you go to.

Those are one of the reasons I do not like how healthcare works in many of the country in development around the world, mine included...
Even if the person seeking for medical assistance was a suspect of criminal activity, they should not be denied healthcare, because it would be the equivalent to impose a death sentence on someone without going to trial... It is very disturbing if you think about it.
Healthcare professionals are supposed to serve those in need, regardless of the situation and economical status, that is their job and part of the oath they took when they started to work as professionals.

Here one is likely to be attention without having to present some law enforcement paperwork, but still we are very far from getting good quality medical attention we deserve.
These are very disturbing and sad topics to touch.

That is the law some government has set up to guide their hospitals based on what they have experienced in the past from some thieves that was fire by the force men to escape to near by hospital for treatment to recover, which is the reason governments made it compulsory to all doctors to take permission from force men before treatment in some countries of the world.

I don't think the law is general, but the law is very common in the Africa hospitals which I have experienced such thing from one of the popular hospital in my society and the doctors in the hospital must take permission from the police force before treatment will take place in such patients health which the people in the society are use to. And it has made many innocent patients to lose their life in some hospitals in the society because it will take sometimes before the hospital will take the permission letter from the police.

It is unsettling to hear that in your country, hospitals may refuse treatment to dying people in critical condition.  That goes against everything I thought healthcare was about - helping those in need, no matter what and  I mean sure, there could be rare exceptions if the person poses an active security threat.  But broadly denying care based on circumstances? It comes across as an unethical inhumane policy decision. 

I wish I understood the rationale behind such a callous rule.  Are bean-counting administrators prioritizing profits over their duty to save lives? Have they become so hardened that they forgot their principles? It makes me wonder if healthcare has lost its moral compass in your nation.  Those in power should remember that a system that abandons its most vulnerable patients has utterly failed.  Doctors take an oath to preserve life when possible.  To instead deny lifesaving measures, allowing preventable deaths - I cant wrap my head around it. 

Maybe Im being harsh, but I have trouble picturing any reasonable justification for letting critical patients die without making every effort to stabilize them first.  Thats a gross violation of human rights.

This is a complex issue which triangulates between medical ethics (e.g. oaths taken by doctors and medical professionals), law enforcement, and economic inequality.
One cannot look at the problem in isolation, and in my opinion, any long-term solution requires a holistic approach.
These problems are directly linked to the overall development of a nation (developing countries encounter more of these problems). The only solution is to strengthen institutions and enable harmonious interconnectedness. 

I don't know if this is only applicable in my country but this has bothered me a lot

A situation where someone comes to an hospital with a gun wound that's severe and life threatening and the doctors would refuse him treatment untill an official statement from the police is brought.

Even when the person is almost giving up, the doctors and nurses would have zero pity on him and would watch you die if he's not able to get a statement from the police.

I've witnessed similar case that's not even a gun wound but a situation where deposits are requested from an accident victim that was rushed in by strangers and some doctors would even refuse offering treatment till in some unfortunate cases, the person gives up the ghost.

What's your take on this? Is thier a medical, moral or security justification to this?