Topic: what's wrong with moderate drug use? (Read 3991 times)

Yeah I wasn't too sure about coke really, I had a feeling it might not be in the same group as heroin and morphine etc.

It was quite a long time ago when I used ecstasy and I was under the impression it was MDMA cut with speed (amphetamine).  My days of experimentation are about 30 years in the past and I worry about damaging my brain these days, but it's sound advice for anyone else wanting to experiment.

Moderate use is fine until they try to use Bliss

Because no one moderates

I've always thought that MDMA was simply MDMA, but that ecstasy was the pill form which usually got some filler. Since MDMA is a methamphetamine anyways it makes sense to cut the two together.

http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/whats-difference-between-molly-and-ecstasy

Yes, these are yahoo answers, but really there's no way to get actual citations. After all, it's up to the dealer, but in my experience if you ask for ecstasy you are asking for cut MDMA.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080620153209AA5hDy0

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130422171411AABiqcG

When did the definition of ecstasy become MDMA cut with meth? I mean, I know people mix stuff in basically to rip off their customers and I'll grant it's been 25 years since I touched the stuff so maybe the language has evolved since *ahem* my day. But having meth in your X never had a nickname other than "getting burned."

Well said.

The only issues I have with your post is that coke is not an opiate (cocaine comes from the Coca plant) and that you should be careful with Ecstasy. After all, ecstasy by definition is MDMA cut with meth. Most of the time you'll never know how much of the relatively harmless MDMA you're getting versus the more harmful methamphetamine, so it's good to be careful lest you develop an addiction.

Playboy has some great articles.  Some of the stories are ok too.

To me "Stink" tends to conjure up images of going down on a pussy and being greeted by the odour of wee.

Anyway, I was going to discuss drugs cos when I was still mis-spending my yoof I did try out quite a few at various times, with the exception of the opiates.

 At the time Cannabis resin, or dope, as it used to be called then, was cheap, available and pretty harmless in moderation and I viewed alcohol and cigarettes as much more harmful.  I never, ever experienced any kind of withdrawal or dependency on anything except cigarettes and amphetamines, and of course, the mother of all hangovers from cheap cider 

Amphetamines was a bit scary because of the horrible come down but I never felt that taking more would help because it was about fatigue from being awake for ages, as well as the strong feeling that it was fucking up my body fast.
I also sampled LSD, magic mushrooms and ecstasy and could only describe the experiences as profound, interesting and great fun. 

Some years later I got run down by a car and had months in a hospital bed with pelvic and spinal injuries.  I was administered morphine and I was just in a dream for some days.  About 2 weeks after, they abruptly stopped the morphine and I had a few really horrible days and nights.  That withdrawal period must have been a cakewalk compared with withdrawal from a long term dependency on on any opiate or alcohol but it was enough to reinforce the view that the way we understand and use drugs is wrong.

Specifically the language we use with them is very important in the sense that we refer to coffee, cigarettes and alcohol individually and the rest simply as drugs, when the effects and differences between them are profound and important to understand.  Clearly some people drink and develop issues with it while others can moderate their use and the same is true for the other drugs.

Existing laws, the war on drugs and the absurd political dialogue around them are wildly disconnected from rational and informed debate.  A strictly rational analysis of the issues brings me to conclusions which strongly suggest many of them should be legalised and regulated maybe like tobacco and alcohol, with revenues being used to assist public health and education.  The reduction in the cost of drug related crime, DEA activity, policing and prisons alone would be worth it, even before any tax and legitimate profits from the colossal revenue stream involved.

I remain of the view that the opiates, with the possible exception of coke, are addictive way beyond being very, very, very nice, which they are too.  I walk a mile away from them and I don't really know what's best with these.

I also have the view that cannabis resin and the milder forms of marijuana are harmless, fun and good for my creativity, apart from the damage from smoking it very occasionally.

Caffeine and nicotine are my staples, beer makes me fart.

Occasional use of LSD, Ecstasy and magic mushrooms, well,   

There is something special about her right after a workout. Someone should do a study on pheromone surging after strenuous physical activity.

Even the cleanest pussy is odiferous but those 4 or 5 vaginal microbiota make one of my favorite soups. I could eat it everyday. BTW: my dog likes that smell too. lol

Not even a little bit.


Figures - once bitten forever shy - you must be American yes?


You stink^*.

^*see how dumb this argument is 

You're just reading way too much into it, and being too sensitive about it, which, frankly, I'm kind of glad to see. Let's review:

Weed stinks. It really does. Now maybe you're a little self conscious about it. Which is fine with me. Because stinky habits are kind of gross.

As for neighbors, nope, I have no neighbors stinking up the neighborhood smoking weed. But there have been incidents in the past. Thankfully not now. Because...

It does stink.

I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying its no-fucking-business-of-mine what you do (and vice versa)^*.

There's plenty of other stinky shit you could single out that is doing way more damage to people and the environment.

I think in reality though you;
a) have a problem right now with the smell (your neighbors etc) or
b)have another unmentioned problem with cannabis and the smell of it is you 'channeling', maybe?

Anything you would like to share?



^*please dont assume im condoning murder or rape etc like that sock in the other thread

On the contrary. You seem to be assuming that because I proclaim smoking weed to be a stinky habit, and that it is a personal opinion of mine, that others don't hold such a view. Perhaps it is you who has, in your ardent admiration for the stuff, merely become desensitized to its stink, not unlike those who work in stinky environments, such as sewage plant workers, slaughterhouse workers, landfill workers, and so on.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question

I also have the personal opinion that bowel movements stink. Are you implying that my personal opinions are unique to me?

So you said....
Surely this is a matter of personal opinion though (as you can see from my prev posts  )

Sorry, but I don't keep a stash. I don't smoke weed. It stinks.

If you can smell it in the next room then you're wasting your stash. That's like flushing money down a toilet. I suggest you try one of these: http://buyvaporizersforsale.com/vaporizerhistory/reviews.htm

Or the next house over.

Yeaaaah... but you usually don't smell it three rooms away, and if you do... well... 

Well stop shitting up my neighborhood with yours then

I <3 the Silk Road. 

Spoken like true pot lovers. Nonetheless, your habit stinks.

So do SUVs and shitty perfume and cheap steaks your neighbors burn on the grill.


Best post on bitcointalk right now 

lawl. 

Pussy stinks too but I can live with it.

Pretty much anything will kill in large quantities. Marijuana sure does stink though. It's an unpleasant acrid odor that is just, well stinky and unpleasant. Much happiness to you for wanting to stink up your environment with your stinky habit.

I do not understand this statement.  Are you implying weed use leads to heroin use?  (This has been proven to be false, marijuana is NOT a gateway drug).  Or are you somehow suggesting weed and heroin are the same?


Of the 4 chemicals you've mentioned only one is safe to use.


Caffeine:
The median lethal dose (LD50) given orally, is 192 milligrams per kilogram in rats.

Heroin:
Even for a non-user, the LD50 can be placed above 350 mg though some sources give a figure of between 75 and 375 mg for a 75 kg person.

Sugar:
Table sugar is sucrose, whose LD50 is 29,700 mg/kg

Weed:
NONE.  There is no known dose of marijuana that will kill a mammal.  Marijuana is not poisonous.

I think it's fine to shoot up as long as it's no more than once or twice a week. I only do 8 balls on the weekend though. Here I am before I learned moderation.

Yeah I grew up recognizing the word "dope" to mean marijuana but later found out that its original meaning was heroin.
The term has multiple uses nowadays depending on the context it's being used it can mean weed, heroin or cool.

There's a difference between heroin and high fructose corn sizzurp? zomg!  

The problem is people think there is a difference between weed->heroin and coffee->corn_sugar

Nothing is wrong with moderate drug use. I'm particularly fond of opiates and opioids. I respect their power and am careful to use only in moderation, I think it improves my mood. 

Nothing to excess, everything in moderation.

Nothing is wrong with moderate usage. That's why it's called "moderate."

That said, it's a slippery slope. More or less depending on your substance and your own temperament, of course. As you say, you can make rational decisions about limiting dosages and intervals. But mind- and mood-altering drugs affect and alter the instrument with which you make those rational decisions, often causing people to err on the side of excess. Those errors may be small but over time can accumulate until your own best judgment is telling you something totally different from your original plan.

It's not necessarily about self-control but about the reorientation of goals attached to your nervous system's risk/reward systems. If the feeling of well-being previously associated with accomplishments can be short-circuited so that you get it by ingesting a substance, why go to the effort of accomplishing anything? Because you have such a high sense of self? If your self learns that it feels more successful by ingesting substances than by the messy process of actually trying to get something worthwhile done.

Slippery slope is really an apt metaphor. It's certainly possible to control one's use of nearly any drug, but it's very easy to underestimate the difficulty and precision it takes to have that control. And it may require such a high level of discipline to enjoy safely that it is no longer enjoyable. And for some people, if it isn't dangerous, it just isn't any fun anyhow.

If you think you can handle it, remember that that is what everyone that learned that they can't handle it thought too. I don't mean that to frighten you, but in my experience part of having self-discipline includes giving myself a safe margin of error. I'm not always right about everything so if there are too many variables I like to give myself room to make mistakes and still survive. Anyone who can walk a balance beam six inches off the ground probably has the skill to walk a tightrope 500 feet off the ground but the decision to walk the tightrope shouldn't be made as lightly as the decision to walk the balance beam.

First off I didn't ignore you. I just said that I could see why you get ignored so often.

Second, I posted a link that calls weed "dope", so I can handle the truth. I guess I'll admit that the truth is that both are called dope. But one is deadly. One isn't. It does not make sense to refer to both as dope. Should we call weed smack? Should we call it ice?

Thirdly, what does being young have to do with anything? How many times have you done heroin?

Edit:

"Go watch Reefer Madness"

You just lost all credibility, sorry. I'm not pressing ignore but I am going to ignore you in this thread.

People who ignore me can't handle the truth.  It would not surprise me if you chose to ignore me because you are clearly full of yourself thinking that a few links on the internet will reveal some great truth.  You are young and naive.




Edit:

Go watch reefer madness for the original popular use.

Reefer Madness (Tell Your Children) (Doped Youth) (1936)

The problem with modern culture is that kids think the internet holds the only answer.  Even when you saw that dope = weed you still want to fight because you have a preconceived notion.  Admit your error and move forward like a man.  Or ignore me like a cowardly child.

No wonder your ignore button is bright yellow.

What does being under 20 have to do with it? Last time I checked there's no minimum age to do either drug. I have never heard anyone who actually smokes weed call it dope unless it was in jest. Quite simply, because if you ask for "dope" you are asking for heroin.

See terminology: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/heroin/heroin_basics.shtml

To be fair, the marijuana page does list "dope" as a terminology.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_basics.shtml

However, since one drug is potentially lethal and the other is harmless, it makes 0 sense to call weed "dope".

Jeez, we must be talking to a connoisseur here. :/

lol, whatever dude.  Dope = Weed in about 90% of the continental USA.  Unless you are under 20.

Search google images for the words

smoke dope


and see what you find.  90% of the images are weed smokers.


http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/smoke-dope


And just so we are clear, here is an ad from a marijuana dispensary:




Is that heroin they are selling?   

Marijuana is only called dope by people who don't know what they're talking about. It doesn't matter if you're white, black, or purple.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dope

http://www.internetslang.com/DOPE-meaning-definition.asp

Think about it. If someone's "doped up" (like before an operation) are they given marijuana or an opiate/painkiller?

If you ask someone for dope, you are asking for heroin.

Weed IS dope, you are wrong.  It's a slang term used all over the US by white people (like me) to refer specifically to marijuana.

There is nothing wrong with moderate alcohol or marijuana use.

Dope? Or weed? Dope is not weed; dope is heroin. If you smoke black tar for most of your life you'll be dead.

I know a very fit, healthy, upstanding 60+ year old business owner, who's regularly smoked dope for most of his life.
Doesn't seem to have done him much harm.

Nothing is wrong with taking drugs in moderation, so long as you know the effects and dosage.

The only drug which is horrible to take even once I think is Krokodil, but that's a serious drug. Heroin and meth are put to shame by that.

With moderate doses tolerance doesn't build up to the point of "can't feel it anymore".
(e.g. lots of people get by on their constant daily allowance of methylphenidate)

These are my sentiments also. You are taking drugs everyday whether you realize it or not (the only difference being the Goverment is allowing you to ingest it).

I see no issue with moderate use so long as you can keep it under control. If you drop out of work to smoke weed then to be honest you probably weren't ever going to be hugely successful in the first place.

This has to be a level.

If not please think before posting. I'm sure when everyone started smoking cigarettes they thought they could stop whenever they wanted, until that day came and they realized how physically dependent they became.

I can tell you are young and have a lot to learn about life. I hope you don't have to learn the hard way. 

When you do drugs people tend to build a tolerance... eventually you can't even feel the effects of the drug any longer so people up the dosage to feel the effects of the drugs again... this is how most people become addicts and such. 

Certain drugs are more dangerous than others; and some of them due to their (side)effects can impair your judgement to the point of making you do things you wouldn't think you would do. So there can't be a general statement about the feasibility of safely using all drugs; the safety needs to be evaluated in a case by case basis.

Nothing is inherently wrong with it there are just people who believe that and decide they have to push their ideologies onto other people and get governments to enforce it for them, in fact, I'm pretty sure that's how almost every law is made currently. As for using drugs moderately? We do it all the time without realising it, you've got caffeine in coffee, there's tobacco in cigarettes ( until recently it was perfectly legal and even normal in society to smoke ) then there's paracetamol which could kill you if you took enough but they freely sell them in supermarkets.

I personally drink coffee each day ( though I make sure to hard limit myself to two cups now, I just need it to wake up better in the morning and I enjoy the taste ) and I use Piriteze and Nasel spray regularly in the summer all of these things are drugs yet because I researched it carefully and kept a check on my dosage they actually really benefit me, particularly the Piriteze and Nasel spray. If you told me to stop taking those I'd swiftly tell you to fuck off because they make summer more bearable, I just wish I could get air conditioning now.

The problem is, if you have self control in the first place, you will not get started with "moderate" drug usage.   Avoid them altogether.

then don't increase your dosage. is self control not here?

The problem is you get more and more "moderate" and start increasing your dosage without you even noticing and before you know it, you are a hard core addict.  Why take the risk?  What's wrong with no drug usage?

Watch the trailer to this wonderful film, and read the subtitles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOOr4nuWFqU

Watch the movie too.

Agreed, and betas are beta, with or without peer pressure*

*not the only reason people get into drugs, but I'm sure it'd be a significant proportion.

You're right, doesn't mean it's not hard to moderate. Sick people are sick with or without drugs

I guess it'd depend on which drug we're talking about -though obviously, I don't give a shit what you do. Go ahead and break out the moderately-sized case of needles.

I'd be surprised if there were any cases of people regularly altering their mood/mind with drugs who didn't have severe internal conflict, though. I'd guess the real concern, if it were a party I'm concerned with, would be whether or not they're happy, since regularly altering their mood would seem to indicate they aren't. It'd be particularly concerning if it were an addictive drug where a tolerance can be built up with "moderate" use.

I'm sure addicts had similar thoughts.

It's not hard to moderate dosage and frequency when it comes to drugs. With all the info of the internet

That sounds like an uneducated comment.

These people were messed up to begin with. Or uneducated (ie taking too much)

I'm sure every drug addict never decided to be an addict to begin with.

Moderation is not that hard, unless you have personal issues. What's wrong with this?