Topic: When traditional markets fall, alternative markets fall harder (Read 760 times)

It could be harder but that’s beneficial as this is both the best among us but the reason why governments are not allowing people to own both is because they are confused that maybe people will start adopting only the modern system and this will be a little dangerous for the traditional market. The modern the better it’s my opinion mate.

As long as you manage to distribute the blockchain equally in a p2p sense than you do not need crypto currencies to make blockchain decentralized. You just need other stuff, it could be tokens, it could be something else but you need to give the power to people instead of giving it to just one place. Aside from that blockchain could be centralized if its not about money to begin with.

Lets assume you are going to build a software for governments to keep track of a certain data, government could use blockchain software and be the sole user of that blockchain without giving out the power to anyone else. It will be centralized like hell but that is fine since the purpose is not to give power to anyone else anyway. Hence blockchain is looking like a bigger player than crypto right now and the adoption is much faster.

The problem is we think too much, we always associate what is happening now to the past.
Bitcoin is different, it's the first decentralized tech that was created in the space and it has a real purpose which is beneficial to the users.
Not all the time we follow the trend in the past so maybe this time we move on a different trend and we follow our old trend in crypto which is pump > correction, vise versa.

Thanks for sharing OP, but I have different views than your opinion, I'm bullish with crypto despite that we've been corrected hard last year.

There are a direct correlation between traditional markets and Crypto currency investments in my opinion. When the Stock markets takes a plunge, professional traders starts looking for safe investments and Bitcoin and Crypto currency investments are not one of them.

A few years ago Bitcoin was seen as a good store of value, but in 2018 the 70%+ drop in the Bitcoin price smashed that perception with the average investor. Bitcoin is now a high risk investment and when prices on stock market shares fall, Bitcoin takes a beating too, because investors pull investments from high risk investments. 

agree with this.

Because crypto is the most valuable digital currency compared to the alternative traditional market. We know that time to time this crypto market will have a mass adoption due to passive income when it comes trading or an investing. Bitcoin futures or Ethereum options in one of the largest markets for cryptocurrencies marks, these currencies are another setbacks for investors betting on institutional demand to help end a cause of brutal year-long sell-off.

When traditional markets fall, alternative markets fall harder but then crypto is a very different market compare to those traditional. If you take a look at the examples OP gave, the pattern is consistent being higher highs higher lows which means crypto is still in a bullish market. Unless it plunged to less than $200 and by then you can say its sloping.

We can't achieve a decentralized currency without a valuable token in it(Bitcoin). Indeed blockchain technology could survive without cryptocurrencies but it will end up to be centralized technology which it is useless to not maximalize the potential use cases of the blockchain.


The problem occurs is because there are still a lot of people that deceived by a useless project. Scammer won't keep recreating an altcoin and coming up with the same idea(no purpose and no real life usage) if the scam method isn't profitable.

You might be right with what you said but there's something which tradition in crypto market and they will always happen weather you and I want it or not.
Therefore, the crypto market will definitely increase in the future and the market will still face price manipulation with or no ETF and BAKKT.

We need all transaction kind between traditional and modern market, some time when we are getting many people still use payment by traditional market, we have allowed what they have did.

for a prediction, I think bitcoin will affect other altcoins. but indeed in its development the altcoin must have the potential to develop together. and that is only a prediction, there is no certainty in it

for now we certainly don't know yet, whether bitcoin and alt coin will later increase altcoin. because we cannot easily predict the situation in the future. so it takes time to find out, and when it happens we know it.

No gold is not good or meaningful investment as well as I think both traditional and alternative market has no connection. According to me the alternative market is about crypto which is different than the traditional both of them has no connection so it’s useless to  compare both.

right, with a decentralized system, cryptocurrency is formed from requests and offers that occur, although there is no connection with others, but because of their nature, the whales often play the market

Yes that do happen to stock markets and the rest of them, but I don’t think it happens to cryptocurrency market. Cryptocurrency has no connections to other markets and no one controls the cryptocurrency market, that’s why no one can close down the crypto market. Sometimes, forks can be a reason as to why prices fall. When a cryptocurrency is forked the price is affected heavily.

No, I'm having enough services to invest into cryptos with my local fiats and I'm not completely depending on USD hence it means I'm not depending on US economy with the respect to crypto investments at least.

Again you are wrong, when there will be a crash in US, then there will be more money flow into crypto but you're stating people will cut. Because, people will not invest into US based stocks but they will look for other investment opportunities.

Those lowcap markets are not fluctuating due to various reasons, one of them must be due to lack of new investors but it is very loosely tied but the downfall of crypto market as you have mentioned. There are altccoins which are performing well even entire crypto market was falling down, good example in recent times is waves.

for the token market circulation that you might focus on may depend on the trading volume of the token, as long as the token has a trading volume then the exchange will still provide an opportunity to remain registered at the exchange, but if the trading volume is not there at all maybe it will make the token a delete list from the exchange.

because the exchange will only continue to provide a list of tokens that have a high trading volume to remain in the exchange.

You could be right that real market is not going to fall ever it will maintain good price value and it will never end at all. This only changes to give us better opportunities but never get down to make the alternatives down. The other basic thing we really need to know is that apparently both the alternative market has no connection with traditional market both are totally changed.

It may change as well on some occasions so it really depends about the current economic situation of the world.Now the stocks are getting low with the crypto currencies but investment like gold still at the same range.

This because most of the crypto are just altcoins for bitcoin. This is the reason why all of the crypto in the market will be influence by bitcoin market price movement. What you say is really true about the fall of this altcoins but mind you that altcoins also could go a good market price increase than bitcoin.

Stop dreaming bro. No one can ascertain that the crypto market is somehow attached to the movement of the stock market and even if it is, you think machines are the ones controlling the market? You and I as well as every other humans including the whales and institutions are, and in this case, if the stock market is going down, the next phase for most people is to look for where to hedge their funds for more increase. The crypto space looks blown out already to me, so I wonder where you are seeing your own death from?

I somewhat agree to this one, but partially. Bitcoin is not dependent to real world stuff perfectly because it’s decentralsied and regardless of other changes in Fortune 500 companies (example) it doesn’t matter to bitcoin at all. Bitcoin is also not controlled by whales now a days as its use is more conventional now than before. So yup I do agree to you that it somehow independent of those X markets out there.

You may right but actually, it is very impossible for bitcoin/cryptocurrencies to be dead, it is still young and there are still lots of things cryptocurrency can be developed. There were lots of people told that the bitcoin would go dead when it was in its very low amounts when it went high, the people say it will die, and then now that it is in its neutral price, people also, tell that it will die. It is very pointless though there will always be some people who are not an optimist we will see what will happen and let's just be ready.

it seems that it will not be possible and the traditional market will still remain because not everyone who understands cryptocurrency or other digital currencies so that until the end of this earth revolves, there will still be traditional exchange places in various countries.

when the crypto market falls down alternative market like cryptocurrencies and commodities market to face the heat mostly technology related assets or shares are badly efforted we can expect the bounce back once the market recovers

This drop in bitcoin didn't started out when the markets fell, that is what people are missing. I mean october was the time nasdaq started to fall whereas bitcoin was already at around 6500 or so by summer, after october the only fall happened after Craig and Jihan all sold their coins to fuel their war on bitcoin cash and that had nothing to do with the markets.

Basically there is no relation between alternative markets and traditional markets, there is nothing that combines them or ties them together. Hence, they can go up together, they can go down together, one can go up while the other goes down, anything could happen and we can't be really surprised because they have no connection, no matter what happens all would be just coincidence. Until markets open up for crypto of course, if nasdaq lists bitcoin than there could be a connection.

we do not see an indication that everything is manipulation. but in fact when the bitcoin as the number 1 coin in crypto falls, the altcoin below falls even deeper. it is a fact in the market and we cannot deny it.

I haven't seen that, could you point me to an example where a fiat currency crashed and Bitcoin actually went up as result of that? If you refer to what's happening in Venezuela and Turkey, then I have to disagree.

The volumes there are so low, that there is no way they can even remotely affect the price in any shape or form. People assume it affects Bitcoin because news outlets make it seem like that, but it's not true.

News outlets have been spreading nonsense around Bitcoin adoption in various countries while there isn't much happening on that front at all. Most people have no way to verify what news outlets publish so they believe it.

It is a nice theory but you failed to prove that there is any correlation between the stock market and the market of cryptocurrencies, you are forgetting something very important cryptocurrencies are not assets but currencies, so a better example could be a comparison between currencies and bitcoin and we have seen that whenever a currency crashes the price of bitcoin in that country begins to go up because the demand increases.

This is not always true and solely depends on region.

Take for example Venezuela or other problematic regions. When their economics are collapsing, the Bitcoin price is bulling and the 'local' Bitcoin price is skyrocketing. I think if we see another 2008 like crisis, the Bitcoin will hit new AHT very very quickly.

I don't think that this inevitable death you are talking about will happen to Bitcoin just because we are somehow in a recession with other markets. Market cycles like this are bound to happen and the cryptocurrency market being a much weaker market compared to the stock market is just merely coincidental brought to us by the crazy price jump we had last December 2017 which causes us a massive sell-off waiting to happen. The cryptocurrency market is already a established market and I just don't see the whole market going down because the stock market is bearish right now.

Bitcoin has experienced several bear markets including ones that last for over a year. In fact the one we just suffered from and are still suffering from has been for longer than a year. There is a slight correlation between the two so hopefully when the s&p makes a comeback so will bitcoin

Something that we have basically heard over and over again all these years and we will never stop hearing possibly until maybe we start seeing bitcoin being used in real life. Like you said, it is just human behavior and a normal thing for people to drift and make assumptions based on the conditions of a market.

The crypto market was already on huge correction while the stock market was still growing until recently, and I see no way the two are connected unless by just basic assumptions of someone who just want to come up with another reason to experience a crypto market death and even if they are connected, I really would not see how at this stage, investors would not be looking for where next to feed on and this looks like a pretty good market for that course. While people are thinking of a dead market, this might just be a long year of accumulation.

Agreed that we never have seen a bearish stock market condition yet, so I think it's quite wrong to assume that the alternative markets--in this case the cryptomarket--would fall so hard than its stock counterpaarts. Experts are actually clinging on the assumption that bitcoin and crypto would excel when traditional assets fail to push forward, as cryptoassets would be seen as hedges should there be another financial crisis in the making.

I read some article that bitcoin was died 10 or 30 times since it was created,the word dead denotes how many times the prices fell too bearish not considerable time so when this happen the people will start to say bitcoin is died but later when the prices increase they will forget about it and start predicting the prices for the next months and year this is just human behaviour so don't get much of it which can confuse us.

It would be something of a start, the crypto market doesn't need to be separated from the stock market, that is already largely the case, it needs to be separated from FIAT. Paying employees is a start but having places they can actually spend their funds and it be beneficial for them is when real adoption will come.

Theres no such market that would able to retain for bearish runs. There would be always price reversals or bull run.I don't see a reason why stocks and crypto would be compared nor connected.
Each market do have its cycle but same as being said there are still people who do make money on crypto market since they do saw that earning percentage and opportunities is way better than on stocks.

I'm not surprised by other people's judgments, when the bitcoin price drops sharply then the bitcoin's said to be dead, but when the bitcoin growth signal comes with a better price, they argue that bitcoin is alive again. So the death of bitcoin's never permanent, and this only applies temporarily just the same as the decline that is happening at the moment, it's only temporary.

Bitcoin has been steadily dropping for most of 2018, amd the stock crash was just reported very recently.

And there is a very credible explanation for the recent large dip in the bitcoin market, and this was due to loss in miners.
The stock crash could have an effect, but it's not the principal factors and there is no basis to claim BTC may not rise again.


I read about a football club, which opted to pay its employees using cryptocurrency, if this could be adopted by more organizations. It would boost adoption and would also separate the stock and cryptocurrency market.

Are we really sure about this ? I mean stocks fell as hard as they have in over 10 years but we see crypto market at the same time which has been quite steady even increased recently. Of course in 2018, there was a huge drop in price but most of it was at the time when stock markets were stable and not falling, if we are only taking the part where stock markets started dropping than since that day to this day stock markets clearly fell a lot harder than stocks.

This tells us clearly that when stocks fall it doesn't affect crypto at all, not in a good way nor not in a bad way. Just becomes irrelevant after a point. Also consider the fact that bitcoin and crypto has become quite global and not just some american investment type so nasdaq could drop or not but it doesn't change anything in the world of crypto since it is more global.

Your assumption will only be true if and only if the stock market won't never be back to being bullish again which I doubt will happen. All this phases including the 10 year bull run of the stock market are just cycles that is bound to happen again, market phases like this are only happening in a long period but it doesn't mean we are stuck in a bearish market for all eternity. Just so you know even if we are in the bear market the gains this cryptocurrencies are yielding are all outperforming stocks in the market making it more appealing to be traded that is why prices are so volatile as a lot of people are taking profit out from it.

Bitcoin isn't just any tech,its a well laid down one that survived even when other cryptocurrencies prior to it couldn't,yeah it's volatile and we all know it,sometimes it's volatility could take it to rock bottom but it tends to spring up one more time
Relating it to the stocks with no evidence seems untrue to me, bitcoins have had previous bears and according to you the stocks were bullish then,if they usually went hand in hand then the bitcoin and the stocks ought to be experiencing the same market situation since the bitcoin came on scene,the only relationship between the bitcoin and the stocks this year is that in general this year has been bad for all investors market.

The blockchain technology definitely is going to be adopted worldwide and is here to stay just like you said, but it's doing so with the bitcoin

ten years crypto survives that is still young for a product, there is still a lot of potential that can be produced, so you are wrong if you say that cripto is outdated, it really feels very difficult bitcoin prices can reach the highest price again like in late 2017, I am sure that bitcoin can survive, it is incomplete if blockchain technology is separate from crypto, both of which will still exist because both of them can still fulfill what is needed by today's society

The previous btc price crashes were due to the crypto market being very small and very manipulated.
Now the market is still manipulated,but it's way harder than before.Bitcoin isn't old and rusty.BTC transactions aren't that expensive.All the comparisons between bitcoin and myspace,shitty dot-com companies and tulips are nonsense.Bitcoin will recover,because the crypto whales will pump it again.  

The main issue in this regard with the crypto market is that the only channel to investing is through FIAT such as USD. If there's an economic crash in the US and people try to cut their investments then there will be less dollars to flow in to crypto. Within crypto there would likely be no the same struggles, that's why low cap alts that only seem to trade BTC/alt don't have too much fluctuation in times like this.

If you compare the dow jones, or the S&P 500 to the bitcoin chart you can notice that the stock's have been in a rally since 2009 right when bitcoin was just created, this means that the crypto currency space has never experienced a stock bear market, because stocks have been bullish since 2009 and right now they are starting to fall and I believe there will be a bigger crash than the one that happened in 2008-2009, based on this we can say that all the thousand's of bitcoin "deaths" where just mere corrections, like when bitcoin went from 30$ to 2$ when it went from 1200$ to 200$ and now from 20k to 3k all of the previous corrections where with a bullish stock market, but now the stock market for the first time since 2009 is beginning to plunge and is taking cryptos down with it, something that hasn't happened in the previous btc "deaths"

This makes me believe that this time crypto may never come back at all, like when tulips crashed in the 1600's or when the thousand of .com stocks never recovered (like pets.com) etc this means that this time bitcoin and other crypto currencies may NEVER come back to a ATH like it has happened before, what we learnt from previous bubbles caused by a new emerging technology eg the .com bubble with the rise of the internet is that the majority of companies (this time coins) die off and I believe right now bitcoin is so old, rusty with high tx times and high fees that it is possible it may become the MySpace of crypto, having said this it is also really posible that cryptos stop existing at all, because there are coins that really don't need a blockchain and are just pump ICO'S that have no real purpose, the only thing that its left is the blockchain technology by itself that dosnt really need to have a token with value attached to work, the world could adopt the blockchain technology without the need to have a pump token attached to it.

this is my opinion right now, I think blockchain technology is here to stay but I put into a debate if crypto tokens will be here to stay.