When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with enforced tax

Abiky

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Quote from: Blitzboy on September 06, 2023, 09:03:17 AM

In fact, Bitcoin's basic design represents a trend toward decentralization and self-sovereignty. But the debate is not just about Bitcoin versus Fiat; it also concerns the fundamental philosophy of blockchain technology. It could be compared to the monetary system shedding its old shell to show a more robust and transparent financial exoskeleton.

Although you pointed out that fees in Bitcoin are frequently perceived as needless, they are actually crucial to maintaining the security and stability of the system. That cost? It serves as a barrier against dangers from without as well as a means of payment.

Fiat's centralized structure has repeatedly demonstrated to us that it is vulnerable to fraud, inflation, and corruption. The paradigm that Bitcoin challenges forces us to consider a more egalitarian financial future. Bitcoin has the potential to displace traditional currencies as we go farther into the digital era. When rather than if is the question.

Bitcoin can replace traditional currencies (Fiat), but that will never happen. That's because governments won't allow something decentralized to dominate the mainstream economy. It will be less power for the government, and more control for the people. Despite Bitcoin's inability to replace Fiat, it's still the best thing around to protect your financial freedom. BTC can't be debased, confiscated, or frozen at will.

The fees are the only price you're paying to enjoy the benefits of decentralization and censorship-resistance. This is a lot better than having to use a heavily-manipulated currency (Fiat) that can lose its value anytime. The more people join the Bitcoin train, the faster Fiat will lose its dominance in the mainstream world. Some countries are beginning to adopt BTC as legal tender, so expect the unexpected. Who knows what the future lies for the cryptocurrency? Just my thoughts Grin

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Maybe you're just viewing bitcoin from afar and yet to know what it's all about, how can you be comparing a digital decentralized currency to that of a centralized fiat currency as being thesame, obviously his only indicates that probably you also don't have a good understanding of what bitcoin is and so on, bitcoin transaction is not like fiat, you can know and modify your transaction fee with bitcoin to your best of interest, but in fiat you dare not tries it at all.

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Quote from: pinggoki on September 09, 2023, 05:00:59 AM

Dude was such a troll, leaving such a controversial topic and then not replying for days and people are still mad about and tries to explain it to OP, as if he/she cares. Don't waste your energy putting scathing comments on this post because it will fall on deaf ears. Besides, it's just words, we know what bitcoin is and what isn't so we should be better Grin

.

I think op is not really serious to check the post he created and who knows if he ever login since he drop this post. He might have checked several times and still not really any single person because he/she knows that the post would attract a lot of controversial comments and he still doesn't care. Bitcoin is self sufficient as one of the major currency I'm the market right that determine the direction of thousands of coins. Open if op will look further because there are lot to gain from the crypto space.

The Cryptovator

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Don't compare tax with transaction fees. Tax given from your earnings to the government. Transaction fees are given to miners since they confirm your transaction. Miners working behind the scenes and earning There is nothing to be learned about taxes here. If you don't want to pay fees, then your transaction won't be confirmed anyway, or a lower fee transaction would cause dust on the Bitcoin network.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Have you learned more about Bitcoin? You have to read the Bitcoin whitepaper very carefully so that your mind will be open because Bitcoin is not fiat and the fee charged for each Bitcoin transaction is not tax.

Quote

“Fiat” is a term used in economics and finance to refer to currency that is issued by the government of a country and has no intrinsic value. This means that fiat currency is not guaranteed by physical value such as gold or silver, but its value is assigned by government authorities and accepted by society as a legal medium of exchange.

[1] GOOGLE

Quote

"Taxes" are mandatory payments that individuals, businesses, or legal entities must pay to the government as a source of revenue to finance government spending and provide public services. Taxes are used by governments to fund a variety of programs and projects, including infrastructure, education, health care, defense, and various other public services.

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In essence, fiat and tax are products and programs issued by the government, but bitcoin is not a product issued by the government so bitcoin is not worthy of being called fiat, while the fee charged for each bitcoin transaction is wages for miners because they have processed each transaction which happened, i hope you understand.

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Quote from: dzungmobile on September 09, 2023, 04:23:16 AM

Quote from: jossiel on September 09, 2023, 04:11:36 AM

The tax that will be implemented is based on how much you've earned from it upon selling. Just as the stocks, there's always the capital gains and it's also applicable to real estate.

Can not generalize things like this. Taxation depends on each nation, each government and their policies.

Like in may nation, sometimes they charge you personal tax even the year has yet ended. At the end, you must to make report, document and get your pre-tax fee back. I guess it is very different from developed countries where laws and taxation are clearer as they have spent many years to adjust their laws and taxation. In nations where there are separation of powers, citizens have better laws and taxation is clearer for them but they must be frankly and precisely with tax reports.

[Tutorial] Crypto taxes for beginners

Yeah, it varies from country to country and there are countries that don't have taxation for gains like this. But the point is that, the source where you've made money will still be having a tax based on the majority countries that we know that have such laws.

But with the example I have given, it is what OP is pointing out about Bitcoin is just another fiat with forceful tax.

So by having that comparison, it seems that it's what he's really pointing out.

pinggoki

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Dude was such a troll, leaving such a controversial topic and then not replying for days and people are still mad about and tries to explain it to OP, as if he/she cares. Don't waste your energy putting scathing comments on this post because it will fall on deaf ears. Besides, it's just words, we know what bitcoin is and what isn't so we should be better Grin

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I don’t think you know what you are talking about mate. Bitcoin is a decentralized payment system. The network fee has nothing to do with the government so it is not a tax. Governments can tax the businesses that do business with crypto but they cannot tax p2p transactions and that is where bitcoin works wonders. Bitcoin has s freedom. Have you ever found yourself in a position where you need to send money to your friend who lives in another continent? Bitcoin solves this. Banks are too troublesome. F em

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Quote from: bayu7adi on September 09, 2023, 03:48:24 AM

Quote from: Nrcewker on September 09, 2023, 03:27:55 AM

Bitcoins are more of a goods than money. People buy Bitcoins and very less people treat it as money.

The primary purpose of Bitcoin was originally envisioned as an alternative to FIAT currency, allowing individuals to transfer money in a peer-to-peer manner. Perhaps the widespread profit generation from Bitcoin trading has led to the fading of Bitcoin's essence as a currency. Many of us have started using Bitcoin as an investment asset, capitalizing on its price volatility. While this is not discouraged, Bitcoin has indeed lost the function originally formulated by Satoshi Nakamoto.

However, Bitcoin stands in stark contrast to FIAT currencies. This means that for anyone who grows weary of unfavorable banking policies, there's no harm in holding Bitcoin and attempting to use it as a more liberating means of payment.

Bitcoin's creator, Satoshi Nakamoto, wanted a decentralized digital money. A new perspective on financial freedom. But due of its volatility and media attention, the focus has switched to how to earn money with it.

Bitcoin is sometimes referred to as "digital gold," but its technology is the same. Blockchain allows peer-to-peer transfers, eliminating middlemen. Some owners' talk about profits overshadows this. Bitcoin may be a money and an investment, demonstrating its versatility.

However, its instability must be considered if you utilize it as your main currency. Bitcoin offers a solution for those who dislike traditional institutions, but it also introduces new issues. Because it can be used as a money and an investment, crypto experts debate and research it.

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Quote from: jossiel on September 09, 2023, 04:11:36 AM

The tax that will be implemented is based on how much you've earned from it upon selling. Just as the stocks, there's always the capital gains and it's also applicable to real estate.

Can not generalize things like this. Taxation depends on each nation, each government and their policies.

Like in may nation, sometimes they charge you personal tax even the year has yet ended. At the end, you must to make report, document and get your pre-tax fee back. I guess it is very different from developed countries where laws and taxation are clearer as they have spent many years to adjust their laws and taxation. In nations where there are separation of powers, citizens have better laws and taxation is clearer for them but they must be frankly and precisely with tax reports.

[Tutorial] Crypto taxes for beginners

jossiel

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

The tax that will be implemented is based on how much you've earned from it upon selling. Just as the stocks, there's always the capital gains and it's also applicable to real estate.

So, if we're going to compare real estate as an asset just as Bitcoin, that means that real estate properties are also fiat?

Network fee is normal just as the banks are asking for processing fees.

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Quote from: Nrcewker on September 09, 2023, 03:27:55 AM

Bitcoins are more of a goods than money. People buy Bitcoins and very less people treat it as money.

The primary purpose of Bitcoin was originally envisioned as an alternative to FIAT currency, allowing individuals to transfer money in a peer-to-peer manner. Perhaps the widespread profit generation from Bitcoin trading has led to the fading of Bitcoin's essence as a currency. Many of us have started using Bitcoin as an investment asset, capitalizing on its price volatility. While this is not discouraged, Bitcoin has indeed lost the function originally formulated by Satoshi Nakamoto.

However, Bitcoin stands in stark contrast to FIAT currencies. This means that for anyone who grows weary of unfavorable banking policies, there's no harm in holding Bitcoin and attempting to use it as a more liberating means of payment.

Nrcewker

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

How are you telling Bitcoins are equivalent to fiat? Bitcoins are limited in numbers, whereas fiat has unlimited supply as long as the government wants. Bitcoins are more of a goods than money. People buy Bitcoins and very less people treat it as money. Regarding the fees, then these are not tax at all, these are just the fees for the transaction to set the speed of the transfer. In all the aspects you are wrong OP.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

This is a wrong view of the crypto community, it would be more fitting to say that nothing is for free in life. Taxes are paid to the government of the country you live, your transaction fee is not going to the government but rather the system processing your transaction. Why shouldn't they get money? It's their computers and electricity that keeps the infrastructure alive. Also you need to compare to the alternative which is using the bank infrastructure to transfer money, here you also have to pay fees. Either by regular monthly fees of your bank account, or by giving your money cheaply to the bank so that they can invest it and make a profit with it. Every system involves cost that need to be covered somehow. I find transaction cost transparent and we know beforehand what will the cost be.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Should I believe this was just an idea that suddenly popped into your head and you decided to put it here? But you are absolutely wrong—very, very wrong.

Do you even know that Bitcoin is a proof-of-work coin? Do you know that there are miners who are helping to process every transaction that we sign, and those fees we spend while carrying out Bitcoin transactions are being received by those miners?

Do you also know that if you are a miner, you can broadcast your transaction yourself and receive the fee?

Let's take an example: in the bank, you are being charged for an SMS fee, debit and credit card fees, and levy fees, and you still pay tax. All those fees you are paying are used by the bank to also pay their staff, maintain the bank, and pay other stuff they have to pay to the government and the central banks.

But in a Bitcoin transaction, you don't have to pay for any debit or credit card; you don't have to pay for levy or deposit SmS alart because Bitcoin is not centralized like Fiat. When referring to fiat, you pay a lot of charges in those financial institutions, but with Bitcoin, through p2p, you will only need to pay for the withdrawal fee.

Common man, where is your mind for drawing that kind of conclusion?

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Quote from: Abiky on September 05, 2023, 10:23:38 PM

Quote from: laris2 on August 31, 2023, 08:10:43 AM

I'd say never, because Bitcoin is not fiat with enforced tax. You pay tax on your profits, tell me when is your fiat generating profit for you?

Fiat is slavery. Bitcoin is not. With Fiat, you're subject to the rules of the government and the central bank itself. They enforce taxes on nearly anything you could imagine. With Bitcoin, that's not the case (although you're required by law to pay taxes on your crypto income). What's only deducted from your balance is a network fee that is used to support the miners. There's no such thing as "free lunch", anyways.

Without fees, BTC would be highly-vulnerable against spam attacks. If the OP takes a "deep dive" into Bitcoin, he will realize it's more than just a currency. It's revolution. The tech underpinning Bitcoin will radically transform our society in ways that were never imagined. It will enable a future of self-sovereignity, privacy, and decentralization. Who knows if BTC ends up beating Fiat as the predominant currency in the world? Just my thoughts Grin

In fact, Bitcoin's basic design represents a trend toward decentralization and self-sovereignty. But the debate is not just about Bitcoin versus Fiat; it also concerns the fundamental philosophy of blockchain technology. It could be compared to the monetary system shedding its old shell to show a more robust and transparent financial exoskeleton.

Although you pointed out that fees in Bitcoin are frequently perceived as needless, they are actually crucial to maintaining the security and stability of the system. That cost? It serves as a barrier against dangers from without as well as a means of payment.

Fiat's centralized structure has repeatedly demonstrated to us that it is vulnerable to fraud, inflation, and corruption. The paradigm that Bitcoin challenges forces us to consider a more egalitarian financial future. Bitcoin has the potential to displace traditional currencies as we go farther into the digital era. When rather than if is the question.

ancafe

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Try a little harder to understand bitcoin so that the diction in the placement of language and words when you make posts will be much more educational to discuss. Networking fees are not referred to as applicable taxes and you should understand that before jumping into postings.

Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Logically taxes must be paid even if you don't run or use them, for example to better understand what taxes and transaction fees are. You buy a car and even though you haven't used the car for several years, it is your obligation to pay taxes, while you will pay transaction fees if a transaction occurs, simple and not so difficult to distinguish between the two. When you store bitcoin anywhere and never engage in transaction activities, you don't need to incur transaction fees.

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on September 05, 2023, 11:19:33 PM

Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Its been 2 whole years you joined this forum, and if after 2 whole years of being here, you still lack the basic knowledge and understanding of bitcoin, then I personally do not think you deserve to still be here, lack of education is a disease my friend, try as much as possible to get some Bitcoin education or do you need a total overhaul of your brain before you can understand?

Seeing bitcoin as fiat is the most ridiculous thing I've heard or seen someone say on this forum, even with every other features embedded in bitcoin which clearly defines its total separation, you didn't see those, but only saw the transaction fees associated with bitcoin transfers as an enforced tax, how more ridiculous can someone be Grin

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If I remember correctly, another thread created by the OP was also a thread spreading negative things about bitcoin. I think the issue lies not in the OP's lack of bitcoin-related knowledge, but rather in his deep-rooted aversion towards bitcoin. His motive seems to revolve around tarnishing bitcoin's reputation to dissuade individuals from engaging with it. He tries to survive on the forum with the purpose of sabotaging us, not with any good purpose. But one thing he got wrong is that everyone here is not as naive as he thought, everyone is completely knowledgeable about bitcoin and fully aware of what they are doing.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Some people believe that Bitcoin is a decentralized currency that is not subject to government control, while others believe that it is a form of fiat currency that is subject to government regulation and taxation.

There are a few key differences between Bitcoin and traditional fiat currencies. First, Bitcoin is not issued by a central bank. Instead, it is created through a process called mining, which involves solving complex mathematical problems. Second, Bitcoin is not backed by any government or asset. Its value is derived from its scarcity and its use as a medium of exchange.

However, there are also some similarities between Bitcoin and traditional fiat currencies. For example, both Bitcoin and fiat currencies can be used to purchase goods and services. Both can also be subject to government regulation and taxation.

Ultimately, whether Bitcoin is just fiat with enforced tax is a matter of opinion. There are valid arguments to be made on both sides of the issue.
Only time will tell whether Bitcoin will become a widely accepted currency or whether it will remain a niche asset. However, it is clear that Bitcoin is a complex and controversial topic, and there are valid arguments to be made on both sides of the issue.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Its been 2 whole years you joined this forum, and if after 2 whole years of being here, you still lack the basic knowledge and understanding of bitcoin, then I personally do not think you deserve to still be here, lack of education is a disease my friend, try as much as possible to get some Bitcoin education or do you need a total overhaul of your brain before you can understand?

Seeing bitcoin as fiat is the most ridiculous thing I've heard or seen someone say on this forum, even with every other features embedded in bitcoin which clearly defines its total separation, you didn't see those, but only saw the transaction fees associated with bitcoin transfers as an enforced tax, how more ridiculous can someone be Grin

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Abiky

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Quote from: laris2 on August 31, 2023, 08:10:43 AM

I'd say never, because Bitcoin is not fiat with enforced tax. You pay tax on your profits, tell me when is your fiat generating profit for you?

Fiat is slavery. Bitcoin is not. With Fiat, you're subject to the rules of the government and the central bank itself. They enforce taxes on nearly anything you could imagine. With Bitcoin, that's not the case (although you're required by law to pay taxes on your crypto income). What's only deducted from your balance is a network fee that is used to support the miners. There's no such thing as "free lunch", anyways.

Without fees, BTC would be highly-vulnerable against spam attacks. If the OP takes a "deep dive" into Bitcoin, he will realize it's more than just a currency. It's revolution. The tech underpinning Bitcoin will radically transform our society in ways that were never imagined. It will enable a future of self-sovereignity, privacy, and decentralization. Who knows if BTC ends up beating Fiat as the predominant currency in the world? Just my thoughts Grin

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

It is so if we want to abstract the subject, but you cannot come to this conclusion in isolation from the rest of the factors. If we make a simple comparison between Bitcoin (according to your definition) and any fiat money, there is no similarity between them. The process of sending fiat money takes place through a third-party intermediary who will charge a fee for his service, in addition to a complete lack of privacy, which imposes taxes in all cases. While the process of sending bitcoin does not require the presence of a third party, since bitcoin is a payment system just as it is a currency, and it can be used in all privacy without the authorities noticing that, and we do not have to apply taxes.
Your view of the subject is very limited and lacks objectivity.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee.

Do you know what tax is? Network and tax costs are two different things and have nothing to do with each other. I realized one thing when making a transaction and when converting Bitcoin to Fiat, the tax will be deducted directly by the centralized exchange. Try to learn more about how Bitcoin works in the White Book and I do not intend to explain further the difference between taxes and network costs because you should try to straighten the understanding independently.

Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Even though my country does not legalize bitcoin as a transaction tool, I still have to pay taxes when making transactions on centralized exchanges. Network fees are a service because anyone is free to send wherever they want and misunderstandings regarding taxes and network fees need to be relearned by you.

bayu7adi

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If you're hesitant about owning Bitcoin due to your country's tax policies, it might be a good idea to empathize with the sentiments of individuals in certain nations where cryptocurrencies are, in fact, deemed illegal.

Each person has their own distinct goals in holding onto crypto, and the most prevalent among these objectives is profit-seeking. In my view, this remains equitable, as long as fees and taxes remain within the bounds of tolerance, and everyone can still reap benefits from it.

Taxes do tend to make a lot of people feel somewhat aggrieved, but with the incorporation of taxes on cryptocurrencies, at the very least, you can possess cryptocurrency without the apprehension of potential apprehension by law enforcement. This also amounts to a privilege, doesn't it?

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I'd say never, because Bitcoin is not fiat with enforced tax. You pay tax on your profits, tell me when is your fiat generating profit for you?

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You must know the difference between taxes and fees because they are two different things. If you are a good citizen then you need to pay taxes as a contribution to the country, while fees are one thing you need to pay when using a service. You may not pay taxes, perhaps because you are reluctant to pay them, but you cannot not pay fees because they are used for services that you use directly. So when you equate fees with forced taxes, that is wrong, because the fees you pay directly benefit you, whereas taxes do not.

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Quote from: Sim_card on August 30, 2023, 02:29:45 AM

OP, you need to take your time to study and DYOR so that you will get the proper understanding between fiat and bitcion,transaction fee and tax. When using bitcoin for transaction, there are miners who help add this transaction to the blockchain which is the fee that you pay for them to help you make your transaction successful. Who will render a service for free,then how will be feed. I don't want what job that you are doing,do you tell that at the end of the week or month that you don't need the pay,that you did it voluntarily? I doubt,this is the same with the tx fee. @Charles-Tim has stated the difference between fiat and bitcion, so check it out for yourself.

You're right. No one for "thank you" will not work. Miners should be paid a fee for providing some kind of service, and there should be payment for the services. They would at least cover the cost of equipment and electricity. Recently, something completely shocked me the prices for these components. Payback takes an incredibly long time.
This is the reason why all this commission is charged. For miners, it is natural that the larger it is, the better. But even for a transaction, a high commission guarantees that it will be executed much faster.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

When will Fiat Banking trolls realize that network fees are not taxes, but merely a cheaper transaction fee than what Fiat Banking customers are paying at Banks.

These trolls obviously do not use the Bitcoin Lightning Network, so they do not know what we are talking about. I think the competition are getting desperate and they are paying the trolls to spam Bitcoin forums like this with worthless FUD. Roll Eyes

The Capital gains taxes that are paid are forced by the Fiat supported government, because Banks are crying and bitching with them to protect their money maker. (Banks charge ridiculous tx fees and high interest rates on Fiat financial services... and the governments protect them with taxpayers tax bailouts) Roll Eyes

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Quote from: dimonstration on August 27, 2023, 08:45:42 AM

Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Bitcoin has limited supply and most importantly its decentralized unlike Fiat that has unlimited supply and government has full control over it. Bitcoin in general doesn’t work like you are suggesting. The government is just controlling the people to treat as fiat but Bitcoin itself doesn’t have tax and network fee is just a transaction fee.

Bitcoin is far better than Fiat because it doesn’t have inflation due to its limited supply.

If just incase this will happen for sure Government is already owned Bitcoin like they are the one controlling but unfortunately it is not happening or it will not happen because Bitcoin built as different, it is built to be decentralized and have only limited supply only.

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Bitcoin enthusiasts have differing views on its nature, but some argue that it's not equivalent to fiat currency due to its decentralized and limited supply nature. Perspectives vary and may continue to evolve over time.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

I get your point but you’re leaving out something pretty massive in your ridiculous rant. Fiat currencies can be printed until they’re worthless and that has been some time and time again throughout history. Bitcoin cannot be printed endlessly by an individual, since its rules are engrained into the network. So it’s supply is set.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Well, your entitled to your opinion and that doesn't make you right!

I would have liked to have a good read on what your trying to imply on the Canada theory to it. If you just might provide a written document or link that sides the message your trying to relay with Canada, it would be nice.

Meanwhile, bitcoin has got nothing yo do with fiat or having it been involved in any for of taxation. On like tax where you get to pay a certain amount based in what you earn, you pay nothing for earning bitcoin and the only time you get to be charged a fee is when your transacting.
Still, it doenst count as tax as they both come by different definitions.
Fees on taking up a transaction varies based on the mempool congestion and as such, a particular mount could have more or less fee but, it ain't the same with tax. It's always the same everytime.

It's okay with you having your thought and contradictory opinion but, hope you get exposed to lots of information here and actually make sense out of them.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

The main difference between bitcoin and fiat in this matter is that when you hold fiat you're taxed for the coins stored every single year. The network fee doesn't "tax" you for storing bitcoin, only for moving it around. This means that in 10 years, with the average 5% yearly inflation, you'll have 50% less purchasing power, while bitcoin, even if its growth stops completely (I don't think it will) you'll have the same purchasing power, minus a small network fee which is just ridiculous compared to banking fees.

To give you a perspective, PayPal charges 3% per transaction, so if you want to buy a phone for 1k, you have to pay $30 in fees. Sending the same amount with bitcoin is going to cost you less than $2.

What's with the "such wow"? Are you a dogecoiner?

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

When will you realize that you understand nothing about Bitcoin and instead, sit your ass down and learn first? you are a newbie and your point is so invalid, you can see tons of replies proving that you are completely wrong.

Forget everything that you think you know about Bitcoin, you know nothing.

Fiat is different from Bitcoin, and transaction fee is different from tax.

There is no Tax on holding your Bitcoin in your wallet, that's why it's advisable not to keep your Bitcoin on centralized platforms that could rip you off, either through higher transaction fees or using authority since you are not in control of your Bitcoin anymore.

Transaction fee is necessary, it's what adopters pay to miners to get your transaction in the blockchain, and it also keeps it safe.

Why the Bitcoin transaction fee is important

1. Process transactions.
2. For Miners to maintain the Network.
3. Keep the Network flowing.
4. Keeps the Network Safe.

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Quote from: Blitzboy on August 30, 2023, 09:20:27 AM

the fee is not an "enforced tax," as you say. You're right; its a contribution. Fees stabilize the system, prevent spam, and keep the network running like a well-oiled machine. Yeah, I agree with your point, miners need to eat too, and these fees keep their servers humming. Its the invisible hand of economics showing its genius again, but in a digital landscape.

Transaction fees are income for miners who find blocks and confirm transactions. They spend resources to mine Bitcoin blocks and confirm transactions and they spend money for such resources. So they must gain something that includes Block rewards and transation fees. Without income, miners will stop mining and the network will be dead.

Quote

Converting BTC to XMR is an option, but its also an extra step that veers off the straightforward path Bitcoin promises.

You have to use exchange for conversion and it is risky. With Bitcoin if you are careful, you can have good privacy and don't have to use Monero.

[Guide] Decent mixing methods

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

I don't think bitcoiners are scared of paying taxes, we're law abiding citizen therefore we're required to pay our taxes and we'll do just that. Bitcoin is very different from fiats and one of the ways is how the network is been handled. Fiats is centralized and our transaction are been highly monitored by the government. When using fiat we didn't have the freedom to do with our money want we want as there are limits to transaction done daily from our accounts.

But when you're operating using bitcoin and not keeping your coin on a centralized exchange or wallet, you're free to access your money whenever you want and spent them as it pleases you without having to verify your identity like the banks request to monitor you.

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Quote from: Abiky on August 29, 2023, 11:09:11 PM

Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

There's no such thing as "free lunch". You'd need to pay a fee for your transaction to go through the Blockchain. Otherwise, the network would be extremely-vulnerable against spam attacks. It would result in higher network congestion to a point where BTC will become unusable. Fees are just a way to protect the network from attackers while supporting the miners. I wouldn't call them an "enforced tax" mechanism, but rather a contribution to the network itself. Everyone benefits in the process. Miners will profit, while you get to enjoy financial freedom.

What's disturbing is how every transaction is visible on the public BTC blockchain. You don't want prying eyes knowing your utmost sensitive info. Fortunately, we have both custodial and non-custodial mixers to use Bitcoin in a private and anonymous way. If that's not enough, you could simply convert BTC to XMR for complete peace of mind. Who knows if BTC becomes a part of our daily life in the future? Just my thoughts Grin

the fee is not an "enforced tax," as you say. You're right; its a contribution. Fees stabilize the system, prevent spam, and keep the network running like a well-oiled machine. Yeah, I agree with your point, miners need to eat too, and these fees keep their servers humming. Its the invisible hand of economics showing its genius again, but in a digital landscape.

However, on the issue of privacy, I find it bothersome. A public ledger? Transparency can be double-edged. On one hand, its the epitome of decentralized ideology; on the other hand, its a privacy nightmare. Sure, you have mixers, but isnt that like putting a band-aid on a bullet hole? Converting BTC to XMR is an option, but its also an extra step that veers off the straightforward path Bitcoin promises.

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OP, you need to take your time to study and DYOR so that you will get the proper understanding between fiat and bitcion,transaction fee and tax. When using bitcoin for transaction, there are miners who help add this transaction to the blockchain which is the fee that you pay for them to help you make your transaction successful. Who will render a service for free,then how will be feed. I don't want what job that you are doing,do you tell that at the end of the week or month that you don't need the pay,that you did it voluntarily? I doubt,this is the same with the tx fee. @Charles-Tim has stated the difference between fiat and bitcion, so check it out for yourself.

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The most basic difference is, As I quote from one of the economic websites: difference-between-tax-and-fees

Quote

In the first place, a tax is a compulsory contribution made by a taxpayer. A fee, by definition, is a voluntary payment. Secondly, as far as tax is concerned, there is no direct give-and-take relationship between the taxpayer and the tax-levying authority.

So, if you say Bitcoin has a tax, it means that Bitcoin has a fixed value, whereas as we already know, the fee required for each transaction varies between fast or slow depending on how much fee we will issue.
What makes BTC different too is that BTC is decentralized whereas taxes are centralized. BTC has a fixed supply whereas FIAT is currently no longer pegged to gold.

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A fiat currency is a currency with no asset base behind it. Bitcoin is a crypto medium of echange with a vitual asset backing that has real value. In fact it is the only crypto that has a hard asset value to back it up. I keep tryting to think of a way to create an alternative, but so far i haven't mamaged. Any alternative is likely to be hit by a 51% attack before it got off the ground.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Well, what kind of nonsense are you writing about levying tax (commissions) on transactions in cryptocurrency, as with fiat transactions? As many have already written to you in the answers, then familiarize yourself with how the network functions. Then many technical points and more will become clear to you. Why ask such questions when all the answers have long been given to them? Use the forum search. Start with the beginners section. Everything is there.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

There's no such thing as "free lunch". You'd need to pay a fee for your transaction to go through the Blockchain. Otherwise, the network would be extremely-vulnerable against spam attacks. It would result in higher network congestion to a point where BTC will become unusable. Fees are just a way to protect the network from attackers while supporting the miners. I wouldn't call them an "enforced tax" mechanism, but rather a contribution to the network itself. Everyone benefits in the process. Miners will profit, while you get to enjoy financial freedom.

What's disturbing is how every transaction is visible on the public BTC blockchain. You don't want prying eyes knowing your utmost sensitive info. Fortunately, we have both custodial and non-custodial mixers to use Bitcoin in a private and anonymous way. If that's not enough, you could simply convert BTC to XMR for complete peace of mind. Who knows if BTC becomes a part of our daily life in the future? Just my thoughts Grin

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Actually it's true, there is only one difference: the overall amount of crypto is limited, and after some time (even after reaching 21M) the overall amount will be decreasing due to accounts getting lost continuously. So cryptocurencies are protected from inflation due to overproduction of money. However, they are vulnerable to inflation in a different way: some hodlers can accumulate so much cryptomoney that the amount will be nearly endless in comparison with an average person, so they can become crypto tycoons (just like now we have global banking system: several rich people rule everything). So cryptotycoons will be able to launch inflation if they wish so, in the same way as worlds richest banks and tycoons do it now.

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Quote from: usekevin on August 27, 2023, 03:33:37 PM

Since we are earning from the crypto community,we can pay some tax to our country.Because our little tax may help the government to create a better scheme for our people.If your country is more poor,you need to contribute some money to the country development.The traders are maximum income tax payers and they need to pay 1% TDS on every trading.The one percent may not seems high,but when the trader made the trade.He also need to pay the exchange fee on every trade.

Totally agreed, We should pay tax as by paying tax the condition of one country might improve as there will be more funds in reserves. The transactions fee of exchanges you are talking about are too less I mean I do not even care about them but the transaction fee on BTC blockchain or ETH blockchain are high and due to this reasons many people avoid using both in there shops or business for payment purposes.

And the 1% TDS is really not that much but it do matter when the amount is big. Sometimes ago I read a topic here about India accepted crypto but put huge tax on the users and I think that's also good at least that tax will help people as well as governments in many ways.

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Quote from: Raflesia on August 27, 2023, 04:29:24 PM

Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Firstly, you must be able to distinguish between taxes and fees because in the end it will be very different in terms of meaning and function.
Do you think transaction fees will ultimately be used by someone to regulate bitcoin to be more accepted like when we pay taxes that are converted to infrastructure?

But in the end providing more understanding will also be useless because it seems that since your account was created your job is only to find loopholes and create an opinion that bitcoin is something bad so in this case I will not argue with you because it is useless.

Although it's sad that you were trapped in the storm, it also serves as a valuable lesson. Its simple to get carried away when the market is optimistic and everyone is talking about exponential growth. Even seasoned investors fall into that psychological trap; if you like, you can call it "collective enthusiasm".

Never, however, should the foundations be disregarded. No matter how alluring Bitcoin may seem or how compelling the rumors may be, they are not a replacement for a carefully thought-out investment plan. Discipline is just as crucial in bullish times as it is in bearish ones. Dont let skyrocketing prices fool you; plan your getaway instead. In that regard, keeping an eye on various price points and being abreast of market alterations are essential to not passing up chances to make money. Finding the right balance between ambition and caution is crucial.

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on August 26, 2023, 06:30:50 PM

Bitcoin transaction fee is not an enforced tax.

Quote from: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/taxes.asp#:~:text=Taxes%20are%20mandatory%20contributions%20levied,as%20Social%20Security%20and%20Medicare.

Taxes are mandatory contributions levied on individuals or corporations by a government entity

This is different from the money paid as fee in wire transfer and some other means of fiat payment.

Fiat and bitcoin are completely different. Fiat has no fixed supply, it is centralized, not censorship resistant and it is an inflationary asset which is just the opposite of bitcoin which has limited supply, it is decentralized, censorship resistant and it is a deflationary asset in long term if compared with fiat.

I highly agree and Bitcoin is not a fiat currency since it has no backing of any government since it is not issued by the government and is not even backed by the person who created it although has an open market that dictates it value the reason for its volatility.

Quote

Fiat Money
Fiat money is the money we all know and are familiar with.

The most straightforward definition of this term comes straight from Investopedia: “Fiat money is government-issued currency that is not backed by a physical commodity, such as gold or silver, but rather by the government that issued it. The value of fiat money is derived from the relationship between supply and demand and the stability of the issuing government, rather than the worth of a commodity backing it as is the case for commodity money. Most modern paper currencies are fiat currencies, including the U.S. dollar, the euro, and other major global currencies.”

I believe @OP needs to read this article to know the difference between fiat money and Bitcoin: https://empireflippers.com/bitcoin-and-our-marketplace/

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Firstly, you must be able to distinguish between taxes and fees because in the end it will be very different in terms of meaning and function.
Do you think transaction fees will ultimately be used by someone to regulate bitcoin to be more accepted like when we pay taxes that are converted to infrastructure?

But in the end providing more understanding will also be useless because it seems that since your account was created your job is only to find loopholes and create an opinion that bitcoin is something bad so in this case I will not argue with you because it is useless.

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Quote from: Faisal2202 on August 27, 2023, 02:58:36 PM

Then what's wrong with paying tax on the crypto we have instead, just like in fiat or any other investment on which we have to pay annually or any time-specific tax, but on crypto or BTC we only have to pay tax at the time of deposit and withdrawal, and that's for only that time when one is making transactions?

Many people are still facing the issue of tax and want to save themselves from huge taxes. That is something everyone wants to save themselves from, but think for a second: those who have huge amounts of Bitcoin will pay tax for it. I do not think that's why, somewhere in the world, they have resources too. They will keep that territory under their control and will not legalize crypto there for the sake of tax, and besides Canada, there are many other countries in the world where people do not have to pay tax on their transactions.

Since we are earning from the crypto community,we can pay some tax to our country.Because our little tax may help the government to create a better scheme for our people.If your country is more poor,you need to contribute some money to the country development.The traders are maximum income tax payers and they need to pay 1% TDS on every trading.The one percent may not seems high,but when the trader made the trade.He also need to pay the exchange fee on every trade.

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Then what's wrong with paying tax on the crypto we have instead, just like in fiat or any other investment on which we have to pay annually or any time-specific tax, but on crypto or BTC we only have to pay tax at the time of deposit and withdrawal, and that's for only that time when one is making transactions?

Many people are still facing the issue of tax and want to save themselves from huge taxes. That is something everyone wants to save themselves from, but think for a second: those who have huge amounts of Bitcoin will pay tax for it. I do not think that's why, somewhere in the world, they have resources too. They will keep that territory under their control and will not legalize crypto there for the sake of tax, and besides Canada, there are many other countries in the world where people do not have to pay tax on their transactions.

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Bitcoin is digital money firstly before even considering it as fiat which expressly sums up to legal tender of a country. What distinguishes BTC from a countries fiat is that it is a universal currency. Irrespective of the country one is in or region they are from, BTC is BTC and the network fee is same as long as an exchange or P2P system is used to process payments and trade.
It is clear also that any financial processor one uses to facilitate any transactions nowadays is charged or taxed, be it for fiat or BTC a fee is always paid to complete the transaction.

The control one also has over their BTC is not same as compared to fiat wherein every transaction details and reference is just there for anyone to see. The anonymity is the catch, except for these days where regulators are changing the decentralized game to a more centralized one inorder to have better control over it.

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In many cases, network fees do not exceed 10% of the transaction value, and if you know more details about how Bitcoin works, you will always pay low fees on average. Taxes vary from one country to another, but in general, the tax is applied only to transactions in which profits were made, such as buying 1 Bitcoin at a price of $26,000 and selling it at a value of $26,000,000.
If you make a loss, you don't have to pay tax.

So, in all cases, given the historical data of Bitcoin, a loss is rarely achieved if Bitcoin is considered a long-term investment with a length of more than the average of 5 years.

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Dimon69

Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Bitcoin has limited supply and most importantly its decentralized unlike Fiat that has unlimited supply and government has full control over it. Bitcoin in general doesn’t work like you are suggesting. The government is just controlling the people to treat as fiat but Bitcoin itself doesn’t have tax and network fee is just a transaction fee.

Bitcoin is far better than Fiat because it doesn’t have inflation due to its limited supply.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

When you pay the network fee where does it go? It goes to the miners and who are the miners? Well as far as I know they are not the government so I think we can safely say that we are not paying the taxes. Now if you are trading Bitcoin on an exchanger that has done your KYC and they are sharing your financial records with the authority and if you are asked to pay the taxes on that “income” then that’s actual tax on your crypto mate.

As long as you are in the peer to peer economy I hardly think that it’s gonna be a tax issue. Simpel nobody know a you have bitcoin if you don’t go through any KYC channel.

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Quote from: Lida93 on August 27, 2023, 06:55:38 AM

Quote from: yudi09 on August 27, 2023, 05:56:02 AM

-snip-

OP lacks an understanding of the difference between tax and fees and that's why he can ignorantly come up with this type of information about bitcoin. He needs to go back to the drawing board and strategize more and more because this just propaganda didn't hit as he had expected but a failed mission to mislead newbies about bitcoin and fiat difference.
Apart from all other explanations established by members about why the fees are attached to bitcoin mining and transactions, we call all attest that factors like inflation , centrality and control by government that's known to fiat are not associated with bitcoin.

Yes, right. Bitcoin has nothing to do with things being controlled by the government.

Apart from not understanding the OP in terms of the difference in bitcoin fees and taxes, Governments can benefit from transactions in bitcoin and other crypto assets traded by exchanges that are located and operate in certain country licensing areas. The exchange belongs to a private company and of course there is an obligation for the company to pay taxes with the terms and conditions that have been decided.

Of course a legal exchange that can operate even if the country defines crypto as a commodity asset like in my country.
Because investors or traders in countries that do not legalize crypto as a legal means of payment must convert it into fiat.

This may be of use to the OP and I won't continue this discussion unless there is something interesting to discuss.

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Quote from: yudi09 on August 27, 2023, 05:56:02 AM

Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee.

Taxes with fees are different by definition.
It's probably only now that we're hearing bitcoins are just fiat with taxes imposed after you leave those opinions here.

Taxes are paid to the state by citizens who are domiciled in that country. There are taxes that are mandatory, personal, income tax like me living in Indonesia. Tax paid by citizens to because they have used state facilities.
Bitcoin in transactions and mining are not taxes, they are called fees.

OP lacks an understanding of the difference between tax and fees and that's why he can ignorantly come up with this type of information about bitcoin. He needs to go back to the drawing board and strategize more and more because this just propaganda didn't hit as he had expected but a failed mission to mislead newbies about bitcoin and fiat difference.
Apart from all other explanations established by members about why the fees are attached to bitcoin mining and transactions, we call all attest that factors like inflation , centrality and control by government that's known to fiat are not associated with bitcoin.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 16, 2023, 07:25:44 PM

People have been killed for it and tortured (sure this happens with fiat but the blood is on your hands now).

Do not expect a sensible argument from someone who types this as a negative of Bitcoin.

And do not feed the troll, just add the user to your ignore list.

- Jay -

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You got it all wrong, and not just a little bit; like, REALLY wrong. First of all, calling Bitcoin fiat is like calling the internet a fad; they're both game-changers, but not in the way you're thinking! Fiat currency is backed by the government, and guess what? Governments can print as much of it as they like. Bitcoin, on the other hand, has a cap. There will only be 21 million Bitcoins, ever. It's scarcity at its finest.

And taxes? Taxes are a societal construct to support infrastructure, welfare, etc. Network fees? Those are part of the blockchain protocol to incentivize miners to keep the system going. They're not the same, buddy. And when it comes to extra taxes for legalization? That’s like saying I shouldn't use my credit card because of transaction fees. Come on, get real.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee.

Taxes with fees are different by definition.
It's probably only now that we're hearing bitcoins are just fiat with taxes imposed after you leave those opinions here.

Taxes are paid to the state by citizens who are domiciled in that country. There are taxes that are mandatory, personal, income tax like me living in Indonesia. Tax paid by citizens to because they have used state facilities.
Bitcoin in transactions and mining are not taxes, they are called fees.

Maybe you have other intentions that you want to know by making this topic. Please write clearly so you can get the appropriate answer.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Be frank, did you try to google 'Why does bitcoin fees exist"? I bet you haven't even done any research to answer your question angrily opened thread here. Bitcoin uses the Proof Of Work consensus mechanism to generate bitcoins. On average, one block is generated every ten minutes and this one block is capable to include 3500 transactions (more or less). If there was no transaction fee, one would be able to create millions of transactions with 0 fee and clog the mempool. In order to prevent that, transaction fees were implemented in Bitcoin ecosystem. Also, what's the fair way to prioritize transactions? The higher fee you pay, the quickly your transaction will get processed. And with the help of Lighting Network and some other changes, things will settle down in near future and fees will remain low.

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The fees you pay in Bitcoin are not the taxes you give to the state. It's different. The fee you pay from a Bitcoin transaction is a service fee for the network to keep operating.

But when you use Bitcoin on an exchange, the government can request financial statements from the exchange, and then the government determines how much tax you have to pay. Or you submit a report of the exchange to the government so that the government can determine the range of taxes you must pay.

I don't know what happened in Canada so you have to pay network fees and taxes. You could tell in more detail about what happened there so there is no misunderstanding.

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Let's not forget with monthly bank fee, fee for transferring money to different bank, monthly credit card fee, frozen funds, legal process etc that related with banks. Wow you've spend monthly fee and wasting your time to meet the bank requirement.

The thing is, nothing force you to transfer small amount of Bitcoin if you can't afford to pay the fee. After all you can still use fiat for small transaction and use Bitcoin for big transaction, as long as the government not remove fiat as legal tender.

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A tax is a mandatory fee, so If you view taxes and fees to be the same, fine. I think you're mistaken but I see the logic. What would you consider to be a built in inflation rate of 2% minimum by the central banks on every single major fiat currency? That's under good conditions, the actual rate of inflation is often higher than 2%.

By virtue of that alone, the so called "tax rate" of Bitcoin is is already lower.

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What's the problem with fees for bitcoin transactions? Do you not pay the fees when you do the banking transactions in addition to paying the tax? In all financial services you have to pay fees and taxes. Can any service continue without the fee?

Fees are perfectly healthy because they are necessary for miners to stay in their centers and also necessary for the network to continue working and its security, this is nonsense because no one complains about fees because everyone knows they are necessary. Complaining only happens about congestion and when fees go up.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee.

You don't understand what tax means.

With your interpretation, fee you pay with bank transfer will be considered as tax too but in fact it is not. It is simply one of fees you pay to use a service that is similar with on-chain transaction fee when you use Bitcoin network and bitcoin to move your fund from one address to another one.

Darker45

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You seem to have gotten everything wrong. Take a closer look at Bitcoin and fiat once again and you will realize they're extreme opposites. You've mentioned about a transparent ledger. That itself is enough for you to consider Bitcoin as a different currency. Does fiat have one?

Comparing network fee and enforced tax is also wrong. From the word itself, a network fee is a fee for those who process your transactions in the network. You can't have it for free; it's a task that takes a lot of energy and computation.

Whether a nation legalizes it or not, a network fee is always required. Whether a tax is required on top of it or not, it's not anymore on Bitcoin. It's on the government that legalizes it.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

I don't think it was a problem because what the tax mean if all countries in the world implemented Bitcoin as payment, The holder definitely rich, right? because Bitcoin price is not like today, maybe over a million, and maybe we just pay a few taxes to make it happen. So, tax is the 1st step for legalization, if a country implements for the assest, in the next time the people would believe that asset is legit.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

You don't seem to have any knowledge of bitcoin and fiat, you can't even tell the difference between them, we really have nothing to discuss here. Do you see any decentralized national currencies? Is there any currency that gives us freedom? Bitcoin really brings a lot of benefits to us, but it is difficult to understand many people still stupidly reject it and still love fiat. Through fiat, the government is controlling you, you are losing free, and you want to be someone else's puppet, you don't want to be free? If you don't like bitcoin, then ignore it, don't post to let people know your stupidity.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee.

Network fee is a service.

You are paying to have the freedom to send money to whomever you want, wherever you want, without asking for authorization for it.

You also have more privacy.

panganib999

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When will people realize that it's not cause we don't like fiat that we chose to side with bitcoin?

We chose to side with bitcoin cause here, profits are decentralized. Anyone could make it or succeed without being beaten by nepo babies, people who have privileges, or whatever the fuck's going on that gives some people unfair advantages and opportunities against other people. Bitcoin is chosen by millions of people because at the very least, in this industry we have the chance to succeed and earn money that we otherwise wouldn't have gotten if we remained your 9-5 sleeper agents. So fuck off with the "bitcoiners are stupid hurr durr it's just fiat with taxes" hell yeah it is. But at the very least when bitcoin pumps we reap the profits. When bitcoin opens opportunities for people to flourish in their careers they do. Has that happened to fiat?

mk4

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That's like saying that paying with physical cash money has enforced tax because you have to go commute or use gas on a car to meet someone.

You do realize that bitcoin without fees would potentially cause it to get spammed with useless transactions right? It isn't even that complicated to figure out. But I guess you need to have new criticisms to throw. Try harder.

Bitcoin_Arena

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It seems to me that you need a lot to learn about how the Bitcoin network functions. Here... start with the white paper - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

The so-called enforced tax you are talking about is the mining/transaction fee. People who confirm blocks invest in a lot of resources to do so (investing in mining hardware, paying electricity bills, maintenance costs). The Mining rewards and transactions fees are an incentive to keep them running their mining hardware, otherwise the network would collapse or become less decentralized if there were not enough miners

Educate yourself before you make such opinions.

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Bitcoin transaction fee is not an enforced tax.

Quote from: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/taxes.asp#:~:text=Taxes%20are%20mandatory%20contributions%20levied,as%20Social%20Security%20and%20Medicare.

Taxes are mandatory contributions levied on individuals or corporations by a government entity

This is different from the money paid as fee in wire transfer and some other means of fiat payment.

Fiat and bitcoin are completely different. Fiat has no fixed supply, it is centralized, not censorship resistant and it is an inflationary asset which is just the opposite of bitcoin which has limited supply, it is decentralized, censorship resistant and it is a deflationary asset in long term if compared with fiat.

hsdjkahskjdh

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When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

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