where is profit? | Bitcointalksearch.org

devimon

newbie

Activity: 3

Merit: 0

Quote from: HeRetiK on October 24, 2017, 10:11:28 AM

Quote from: audaciousbeing on October 24, 2017, 07:09:39 AM

What happen here if everything you said is to go by is that sometimes the margin between buying and selling is always high for example you might buy some coins for say $4800 and when you want to sell on that same platform could be $4730 which means there is a $70 margin loss there if you want to sell couple with another reduction you will face because of the implicit fee.

So, the small increment in the price of altcoins is not enough to cover for the margin described above and the fee attached to eventually give a profit and you have to either wait more for the Altcoin to appreciate more or btc to go lower.

There is no certainty that its going to turn profit on bittrex because even though the margin on buying and selling might be lower, the implicit fee might be higher than where you are currently trading. You are actually making profit but not enough to cover those costs.

This margin as you describe it is commonly known as "spread"

OP, did you make a market order or a limit order?

Market orders execute instantly, at the premium of you paying the spread. Limit orders become part of the order book, are not guarantueed execute, but are cheaper in that your counterparty (ie. the buyer / seller that makes a market order) pays the spread.

I assume you made a market order, as that's usually the default price your are offered when entering a sell or buy order, which could account for the price difference you are seeing.

Quote from: devimon on October 24, 2017, 09:33:57 AM

So what is the proper way to make profit from such speculations? Wait when alts which I bought will rise in price more? Or how?

Yes, and that's the tricky part Wink

Yes, it was market order. Now I understand, where is the profit. I assume shapeshift is not the best way to speculate with crypto.

So guys correct me if I am wrong: if I want to buy/sell altcoins from time to time I need to store some amount at bittrex or similar site, for better rate and lower fees?

Getcoinsite

sr. member

Activity: 714

Merit: 260

Quote from: Ctn on October 24, 2017, 09:10:43 AM

I’m afraid but I don’t think you saw the conversion values properly. I mean you exactly how exchangers work right..? The exchanger value can be altered by you and other people using that service. If you put lower value for another pair then exchanger will wait until the prices drop to that value and then it will execute your order. Same thing happens if you put the values more and same story again. It might be the case you sold them at lower rates than the market value. I’m just speculating one of the reason for your loss. Always refresh the trade window while making new orders otherwise your trade might get executed on old values.

yeah thats true,you should have wait for the value to go up than the value u bought it,thats why before going into transaction,u must know all sides of dealing when talking about profiteering here in abitcoin world.

mobnepal

legendary

Activity: 1218

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First thing is that exodus uses shapeshift api to provide inbuilt exchange feature in their wallet so you should only use them as wallet not as exchange.
Usually shapeshift take huge % fee + fixed fee on every exchange which cut off all the profit you could get when you will sell alts for small profit like in your example.

Bittrex like trading platform will only take 0.2% as trading fee so if you will sell alts when its price will rise by more than 0.2% than you will get profit from selling them, profit will be increase in price - 0.2% of the total amount you will trade.

HeRetiK

legendary

Activity: 3108

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Quote from: audaciousbeing on October 24, 2017, 07:09:39 AM

What happen here if everything you said is to go by is that sometimes the margin between buying and selling is always high for example you might buy some coins for say $4800 and when you want to sell on that same platform could be $4730 which means there is a $70 margin loss there if you want to sell couple with another reduction you will face because of the implicit fee.

So, the small increment in the price of altcoins is not enough to cover for the margin described above and the fee attached to eventually give a profit and you have to either wait more for the Altcoin to appreciate more or btc to go lower.

There is no certainty that its going to turn profit on bittrex because even though the margin on buying and selling might be lower, the implicit fee might be higher than where you are currently trading. You are actually making profit but not enough to cover those costs.

This margin as you describe it is commonly known as "spread"

OP, did you make a market order or a limit order?

Market orders execute instantly, at the premium of you paying the spread. Limit orders become part of the order book, are not guarantueed execute, but are cheaper in that your counterparty (ie. the buyer / seller that makes a market order) pays the spread.

I assume you made a market order, as that's usually the default price your are offered when entering a sell or buy order, which could account for the price difference you are seeing.

Quote from: devimon on October 24, 2017, 09:33:57 AM

So what is the proper way to make profit from such speculations? Wait when alts which I bought will rise in price more? Or how?

Yes, and that's the tricky part Wink

devimon

newbie

Activity: 3

Merit: 0

So what is the proper way to make profit from such speculations? Wait when alts which I bought will rise in price more? Or how?

Quote from: Ctn on October 24, 2017, 09:10:43 AM

I’m afraid but I don’t think you saw the conversion values properly. I mean you exactly how exchangers work right..? The exchanger value can be altered by you and other people using that service. If you put lower value for another pair then exchanger will wait until the prices drop to that value and then it will execute your order. Same thing happens if you put the values more and same story again. It might be the case you sold them at lower rates than the market value. I’m just speculating one of the reason for your loss. Always refresh the trade window while making new orders otherwise your trade might get executed on old values.

The amount of OMG and ETH which I will receive was shown from the beginning and BTC amout which will be taken also was shown, so in the end nothing changed in those numbers. I received excatly the amunt I was promised.

Ctn

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 259

I’m afraid but I don’t think you saw the conversion values properly. I mean you exactly how exchangers work right..? The exchanger value can be altered by you and other people using that service. If you put lower value for another pair then exchanger will wait until the prices drop to that value and then it will execute your order. Same thing happens if you put the values more and same story again. It might be the case you sold them at lower rates than the market value. I’m just speculating one of the reason for your loss. Always refresh the trade window while making new orders otherwise your trade might get executed on old values.

audaciousbeing

hero member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 569

Quote from: devimon on October 24, 2017, 06:44:27 AM

Hi guys. Another newbie here. Here is what I am confused about. Yesterday before the fork when BTC whas high I thought go on the sale on alt market and bought some ETH and OMG.
So here are conversions (don't tell me about small amounts):
0.004 BTC for 3.04323051 OMG
0.00482 BTC for 0.10009339 ETH

Today, when BTC dropped a little and alts rised a little, by my newbie logic, well if I would sell the same amount of alts I bought I will have smaaaaaal profit (I didn't wanted to sell tho, just was curious). So I went to exchange:
entereted 3.04323051 OMG and it showed me 0.00380365 (the amount in EUR was 22.46 vs 18.56)
There was the same with 0.10009339 ETH, both BTC and EUR amount where smaller.

I don't know is it worth to mention that yesterday when I exchange those I used built in exchange in Exodus, so small fees where charged.
So my question is where is the profit? Or it is just exodus who shows conversion with fees already included. Will there be profit with such example on bittrex? Or I am just misunderstanding something?

What happen here if everything you said is to go by is that sometimes the margin between buying and selling is always high for example you might buy some coins for say $4800 and when you want to sell on that same platform could be $4730 which means there is a $70 margin loss there if you want to sell couple with another reduction you will face because of the implicit fee.

So, the small increment in the price of altcoins is not enough to cover for the margin described above and the fee attached to eventually give a profit and you have to either wait more for the Altcoin to appreciate more or btc to go lower.

There is no certainty that its going to turn profit on bittrex because even though the margin on buying and selling might be lower, the implicit fee might be higher than where you are currently trading. You are actually making profit but not enough to cover those costs.

devimon

newbie

Activity: 3

Merit: 0

Hi guys. Another newbie here. Here is what I am confused about. Yesterday before the fork when BTC whas high I thought go on the sale on alt market and bought some ETH and OMG.
So here are conversions (don't tell me about small amounts):
0.004 BTC for 3.04323051 OMG
0.00482 BTC for 0.10009339 ETH

Today, when BTC dropped a little and alts rised a little, by my newbie logic, well if I would sell the same amount of alts I bought I will have smaaaaaal profit (I didn't wanted to sell tho, just was curious). So I went to exchange:
entereted 3.04323051 OMG and it showed me 0.00380365 (the amount in EUR was 22.46 vs 18.56)
There was the same with 0.10009339 ETH, both BTC and EUR amount where smaller.

I don't know is it worth to mention that yesterday when I exchange those I used built in exchange in Exodus, so small fees where charged.
So my question is where is the profit? Or it is just exodus who shows conversion with fees already included. Will there be profit with such example on bittrex? Or I am just misunderstanding something?

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