Topic: Where is the value reflected? (Read 579 times)

.

I think on the contrary, the more parties involved in bitcoin the concept of decentralization will work effectively, the price that occurs is natural because a large market cap is difficult to manipulate and of course this will make us more optimistic about the future of bitcoin.

right, the more bitcoin adoption, let alone legalized by the government, this will make bitcoin fluctuations not as big as they are today. but when that time comes, of course the price of bitcoin is very high compared to today. need extra power to manipulate the market when adoption is evenly distributed across the globe

Adoption of Bitcoin from user sides is enough. Does it matter if the merchant converts it to Fiat immediately? Any smart merchant would realize that he is much better off keeping part of his income in BTC rather than converting it all. The benefits of BTC are understood at an individual level first. So, even though boosting sales can be the motive, the fact that this makes merchants familiar with Bitcoin is itself a big positive.

I think the OP mentioned that his place doesn't have a lot of options to pay with BTC. If he is saying that he won't use it to buy items, maybe he means that he sees it as a safe personal store of income. A lot of people treat it that way. The real use-case of BTC for payments are not the traditional merchants and grocery stores, the real use case is things like streaming payments over LN. It shouldn't matter in the long run that merchants continue to use fiat.

I read this  like two times now and I'm struggling to understand the areas you are emphasising on, because from my perspective an investment is investment no matter what they adventure into and call it investment it's their own, I don't want to go further to refute this but let us to understand or comprehend your are of concentration, or your point to be understandable to others, but do not take this as an insult bro.

I believe we are overlooking the fact that the more these institutions become involved with cryptocurrencies, the more vulnerable they will become to manipulation. What we've learnt over the last six months is that cryptocurrencies require security from someone like Elon Musk, who manipulates the market through social media while walking around freely. I feel that stronger restrictions and better investing practices are required so that cryptocurrencies such as bitcoins do not become a tool.

In my own opinion cryptocurrency is one of the risky and unstable currencies, but in terms of value, why BTC is valuable is because the community accepts the consensus price and increases the price. The value of BTC goes up. so it is impossible to predict exactly what the price of BTC will be. It all depends on the market and the trading community, they buy and hold a lot of BTC will increase in value, they sell a lot and sell out BTC. se decreases in value, it's really hard to talk about this.

A reasonable option for most of them for now is to buy stablecoin as a mean of securing capital during bitcoin correction. It is normal when bitcoin experience a correction, the market capitalization of altcoin also experience a correction so that stablecoin become a temporary choice before starting to enter again to buy bitcoin. However, this strategy may not be for long-term holders and only for day or seasonal traders.

As I just wrote in this post, what you described has always been the case with bitcoin--very few people have ever wanted to spend it, including the old school bitcoin whales who were banking on it going to the moon.  Bitcoin certainly can be used as money at places that accept it as payment, but the insurmountable problem is its volatility.  When you have the chance to make a profit by holding bitcoin because it's always going up and down, why in the world would you want to spend it instead of fiat, which is never going to increase in value?

I disagree.  Unless bitcoin starts to plummet, people are still going to use it as a store of value--and that's only if altcoins don't plummet right along with it, which would most likely be the case.

Is that fair? Then why we want government and merchants to legalize and accept it as legal tender while we are just going to use it for our personal benefits.

But its their choice since bitcoin gives them complete deciding authority while if you do good things then it may come back to you because I heard Karma is real!

I will prefer to say the future of cryptocurrency is a great trend, not an inevitable event, but a high possibility event". And also hope is just for this main time that you won't use bitcoin as payment because I think has the holder of this coin it will be a great delight in my Country using this coin as payment of goods and services.

Certainly more and more merchants would accept crypto currency and as for it's regulation it's not in the hands of the developers, crypto still remains decentralized and as such it's everyone's duty to make it what we want of it. I wouldn't be surprised if by 2030 more than half of the world's populace adopt the use of crypto as means of carrying out than sections legally

This is where the worth of bitcoin will be felt by people. No one would adopt something which is difficult to use/understand and not beneficial in at least one means. Bitcoin got potential to be serving merchants as a versatile payment processor and as an investment opportunity if they opt to hold. The value of bitcoin to be realized once we start using it or adopting for whatever purposes which are suitable for an individual or a business.

But, I feel that there cannot be any difficult to use BTC as a base unit for my spending. Moreover, USDT is a centralized one which may go bankrupted at any time soon. So, just being suitable for payment alone will not be enough criteria for adopting it.

It has been proven that USDT is much more suitable for payments, since people get used to use USD as base unit of value. Mortgage BTC and get USDT loans would also remove the difficulty in calculating capital gain/loss tax

That, in reality, such incredible news, more organizations taking on cryptocurrency transaction, then, at that point, it will be more prominent for digital currency to be utilized as cash, not only a theory apparatus.
The reception of bitcoin as a method for installment is one of the help for the utilization and capacity of bitcoin as cash. This pattern will likely turn out to be more well-known whether the guideline is changed to be amicable toward utilizing bitcoin as money. Up until now, numerous nations permit the utilization of bitcoin as a method for installment, this builds requests so that somehow or another it can influence the cost.

The situation with the use of bitcoin as a means of payment is indeed a big problem for cryptocurrency users. Bitcoin is now bought mainly as a store of value, hoping that due to the rise in its price, it will be profitable. Therefore, it makes no sense to buy goods and services for it, because the transaction time and transaction costs are large compared to other cryptocurrencies.
At the same time, if bitcoin stops growing in value at its current rate, people will switch to another cryptocurrency unless bitcoin fixes problems with low scalability and high transaction costs. There is a problem and it needs to be solved.

It is fantastic news that the Philipp Plein clothing brand is starting to accept bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. Take a look at your account on Instagram and I found this image allusive to the coins they accept: bitcoin, bitcoincash, bnb, bitcoin sv, dogecoin, ethereum, litecoin, paxos, qtum, tron, trueusd, usdcoin, nano, OMG, tether.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSH4r09nBbr/?utm_medium=copy_link

Important for bitcoin without a doubt every time we see any business accepting cryptocurrencies we feel very excited.

Because we have chosen this path in search of freedom to support our money and when we meet more defenders of our ideas we feel that we are more.

The biggest community that loves bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are on Twitter and the latest tweets from Philipp Plein the clothing brand have no new tweets. They need to improve their social media marketing strategies and strengthen their Twitter network.

https://twitter.com/philipp_plein?s=09

In terms of regulation, I don’t think that it is going to be easy to regulate cryptocurrency, especially bitcoin. Maybe in future it will, but right now I am not seeing the possibility of that happening, except that maybe through centralized exchanges. But not every transaction goes through centralized exchanges, there are many that are being carried out on decentralized exchanges. So, a full regulation is not going to be that possible.

As for companies accepting bitcoin as a payment method, we will get to see more of them doing this particular in time to come. But I am not the type that likes spending my bitcoins for any reason at all, I simply prefer to hold it as an investment, and sometimes I send and receive from people. The only thing I have not done is to use it in buying something online.

Value is determined by agreement of the buyer and seller. Of course, at different times the value changes. The value of Bitcoin is very clear, there are many people buying and selling daily with high transaction volume. Although the payout in Bitcoin is not as large as we see it, it is the transaction that creates value for Bitcoin. People buy and sell for profit, so stop talking about value. They are only relative.

Of course the reversal of the value of anything is in practical use, but we are still very far from this yet because we are still very far from full regulation of cryptocurrencies, of course a lot of flaws can appear during the practical use of Bitcoin but global acceptance and speed in regulation will help Solve these problems early.
The German move may encourage more countries to start regulating Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, and now several countries have started to officially accept Bitcoin as a currency, such as El Salvador and Argentina, and this will help speed the spread of Crypto and find convenient solutions to problems that can appear on the ground, Crypto is still in its infancy and we are need a lot of time and collective cooperation to overcome all the problems that may arise but I am sure that this will happen soon.

I think we should also factor the price where people are willing to pay cryptocurrencies. Just like gold, its price is derived from: (1) its scarcity and non-renewability; and (2) demand and supply. Just like in cryptocurrencies, as long as people are willing to purchase it at a certain amount, then its price would continue to rise.

The factors including payment for goods and services, etc. are only one of the many things that contribute to its price. But, we should always consider that the gem is on the blockchain technology- where we can transfer payments without the need for any third-party intermediaries. That is why, I do see the price of BTCs increasing over the next following years.

The benefits of cryptocurrencies should be felt more by the public.  With so many positive news about crypto, it indicates that people are starting to accept its presence so that it is reflected in everyday life.  ranging from payments, news and Blockchain development innovation.  when that happens, maybe this world will change for the better

The fact that cryptocurrency is accepted for payment for goods and services is certainly very good, since this is what increases the value of cryptocurrencies, but there is one but. For the mass adoption of crypto and increase in value, it is necessary that the cryptocurrency can be used in all stores in the world, especially grocery stores, as well as in cafes and restaurants. The fact is that if, for example, you can buy a Tesla car for BTC, then this is only a small part of people who will take advantage of this opportunity, but if you could come to the supermarket for BTC and buy food, then this probably increased the value of BTC immediately several times. But no matter how it was, let's hope that all this will happen in the near future.

Even though in my country, payments using bitcoin have started to bloom, but until now there is no intention for me to transact and buy a product or item using my assets.
this is not a question of being afraid of the government or being considered cool or not, this is a personal matter with my principles because I think I love my bitcoin assets too much so I prefer to pay using real money or fiat to buy something.

I am not entirely sure if that’s true. I do agree that getting bitcoin accepted for clothes is a good thing, that's how bitcoin will grow all around the world, clothes is an example but if all the online business' in the world start accepting bitcoin then we are definitely going to see a lot of changes in the world, however that also means that we are going to end up with a lot of buys and sells and some people may end up selling whatever they get from their sales. Whereas in the investment world I have seen people holding stuff for 50+ years, if they are making profit from it, then why sell it?

You and I may end up selling to use that for something, but these are billionaires who only care about how much they have on paper, not like they need to sell it and pay the bills, they already have millions upon millions in liquid cash for their expenses, this is just a way for them to buy and hold and increase their number on paper, same goes with stocks, Warren Buffet has been holding coca cola stocks for decades now, do you think he ever plans to sell it for profit? No way.

Maybe out there there are still many small shops that we have not exposed to the public where they are learning to implement a payment system using Bitcoin. If the government has played an active role in supporting payments with crypto as in the countries you have mentioned. I think they should further expand their store sector in the form of circular information and be equipped with special guidelines for carrying out crypto transactions. This of course must refer to several selected goods, well-known brands, and the durability of aesthetic values both in terms of quality and quantity of an item.

there is a lot of positive news on cryptocurrencies that this is increasing the upward trend in crypto, and it is undeniable that investing in crypto will be very profitable in the future, but not everyone dares to do it, even though they actually know it. many of them already love investing in conventional fields, and they are calm about doing it

The growing community makes bitcoin continue to shine, moreover more and more large companies are investing in bitcoin so that the demand in the market continues to increase and this makes us worthy of making bitcoin the first choice in investment.

Institutional investments in Bitcoin, where it's viewed as an asset, are one thing, and accepting BTC as payment for clothes is another. I think we need more of the latter than the former because the in case of the former, the only thing people care about is profit, and they'll ditch Bitcoin easily because they don't care what it offers and represents. In case of payments, however, we're talking about making Bitcoin more available as money, and that's oriented on people who actually view it as a type of money and are willing to spend it.
Why would you like to see more crypto-friendly merchants if you won't use it for payment?

I am very happy to see more and more people adopt it every day. I remember this brand. I logged into their brand's official website. They accept 15 cryptocurrency payment methods. As a luxury brand, I think their approach is Driving the trend of cryptocurrency, because clothing is a must-have for people and there are a wide range of customers. As they gradually learn about Bitcoin, the demand for Bitcoin will continue to increase.

I guess she just wants to see the merchant's number will rise by accepting crypto, but she will not try to use crypto for payment. If that so, he only want to use crypto as her investment and not using for the payment system or she only wants to make money from crypto. That will be okay because we know that crypto can use for the payment method and the investment method and that will depend on people themselves which one they will use. All of us will have our reason for using the crypto and nobody can force us to use crypto to be the payment system.

In crypto-friendly countries, crypto-currency payments are in high demand.  you are afraid to use cryptocurrency as payment, surely because your country prohibits making payments with cryptocurrency.  i really like making payments with cryptocurrency because it is more efficient, easy and cool.

Between customers and businesses, businesses can change their business models based on the types of customer needs or the aspects that customers are interested in. Merchants allow cryptocurrency payments, and those who have this need or are interested in crypto payments are their users. I think this attitude is open, and encryption enthusiasts are free to choose. No one stipulates that coins must be used for investment, and there is no stipulation that they must be paid for by daily consumption.
Shouldn't this depend on your own thoughts? I am just explaining my own method. I am not trying to give advice to others. I will not give them such advice.

I don't understand this, why do you want merchants to accept bitcoin when you are not ready to spend it to buy their products?

If you simply want them to adopt because the prices are going to be increased when it happens then at some point the bubble will burst.  Anyhow when companies starts accepting then majority will spend on it then it will help the adoption not you buddy!

I do think we are forgetting the fact that, the more these institutes starts engaging themselves in cryptocurrencies the more it will be liable to manipulations. What we have learned from the past few months is that cryptocurrencies needs *security* from people like Elon Musk, who manipulates the market using social media and still walks freely. I do believe we need stricter laws and better investment policies, so that they don't make cryptocurrencies like bitcoins a tool.

Other than that it's an amazing news, I am familiar with the brand myself. It's really great to see people finally getting a hang of it. This is inevitable that more merchants will follow. The price will rise for sure.

How many people can be affected, how much capital can be leveraged, how many companies can be helped to develop, and how much development will be made to the economy.

And this is why it will never happen for a long time.
You want to see more merchants having the option to accept cryptocurrencies as payment but yet you as a customer will not use it.
So why? If I am a merchant why should I even take the effort to open a different payment option? I'll just use cash and credit cards instead then I won't have any problem with risk and volatility.

Both ends have a problem. Merchants and customers. You don't want to spend it, merchants don't want to risk it. Who will take the huge step for adoption?

It makes a lot of sense for retirement funds to be investing in cryptocurrencies, and for regulators to be open for that.

Short term speculation is probably the killer of bitcoin adoption, and something that regulators should disincentivise through taxation policies. Long term holding of cryptocurrencies as a store of value should be encouraged.

In my country, there is a 50% Capital Gains Tax discount available if you hold BTC for more than 12 months - I know the U.S. has the same. Retirement funds essentially lock in these investments for even longer periods and there should be special tax treatment to them too.

It means that you have plans to use bitcoin as an investment alone? If so, you are not alone. I am the one who never prefer to spend bitcoins for day-today life but want to save bitcoins for my retirements or for my grandchilren.

I do not think so; a centralized thing never needs regulation. As we got practiced to centralized services, we are always imagine that regulated are better and problem free but when considered to privacy and security related benefits, then we all need decentralized ones which may not bind to regulations.

Crypto has not yet become legal in all countries if crypto is allowed by the governments of all countries, then everyone will be able to transact with bitcoin like paper notes then bitcoin will be considered as a currency instead of money. In many countries of the world transactions and payments are done with bitcoin will become more popular all over the world if the price is high.

There are many reasons for this idea, including Bitcoin's volatility. I personally think that cryptocurrency payments are more troublesome. Just like I often like to buy a cup of coffee in the morning, paying with Bitcoin feels like I have to pay a courier fee when I buy a cup of coffee. I personally don't like this feeling. Everyone has different ideas, values and consumption concepts.
Bitcoin's crypto volatility and appreciation space are greater than most commodities on the market. When my daily expenses are within my abilities, I think I can keep Bitcoin.
When I saw these good news about accepting Bitcoin, I think it has increased the popularity of Bitcoin. People in luxury goods or other fields can understand and know Bitcoin. This is naturally a good thing for the encryption field. I do not influence the ideas of others. Not all suggestions in this market must be accepted.

That 415 billion was a talking point over a month ago and I have said the same thing back then and I will say the same thing now, it is the "maximum" amount that can be reached, doesn't mean it will be reached, not even 10% of that will be reached. That is only if everyone who can invest into this will end up invest into it and not like people were lining up to buy bitcoin in billions before this, so they will not do it after this neither.

All we may get is few billion at best, and that should be something we should be happy about but that's about it, nothing more. I personally really like the current situation, let's not grow huge and get ahead of ourselves, maybe we do not have to have that much investor coming in, because if they do then the price will skyrocket but that is all the money we could make, after that there won't ever be same chance again.

It feels good that the adoption of Bitcoin is rising. And it feels even better that the growth is seen in the different treatments of Bitcoin. It is exciting to see some kind of balance. Here we have Bitcoin's growing adoption both as an emerging asset and as a currency or a mode of payment, both as something you can invest on and as something you can pay with.

Others may not appreciate it that much, but I guess it is enough to start with that a certain brand is accepting crypto payment. Whether crypto payments would be instantly converted into fiat, or prices are still fiat-denominated, or their books would still reflect everything in fiat, and so on, I guess it is still adoption and it is worth appreciating that a brand acknowledges crypto as an alternative form of payment. Way to go.

Retailers can expect to boost sales through the addition of cryptocurrency support. A 20% increase in sales (I think that would be a reasonable number) through bitcoin adoption is a non trivial gain. While implementing bitcoin support by contrast would be affordable and trivial.

A few years ago, there were US stocks that significantly boosted their value simply by announcing plans for blockchain projects. Kodak, atari and many others saw significant stock gains through making blockchain proposals.

Retailers offering crypto support could be similar. Perhaps not on the stock side, but on the consumer side, sales could definitely trend upwards through giving consumers more options and tools.

Cryptocurrency is a vulnerable asset, so it’s difficult to set people's mind about buy any physical product by crypto-currencies, because it’s can be rising in future then present so everyone wants to hold their cryptos then how can be cryptocurrency use against paper money?

Why you shouldn't use crypto for payments? that's they are intended for. You can keep the biggest part but don't stop yourself from using it for payments so that you're also part of those contributors with its adoption.

I think it's odd that we want more merchants, more institutions, more businesses and other establishments to adopt and accept crypto for payments. While us, we don't want to be part of the bigger thing and use a portion of our assets for payments.

It won't hurt to pay a little with the portfolio that you hold. But I guess that's just me that's thinking of it and we all have different visions and thoughts towards this matter.

Any particular reason why?
You seem to favor the idea of Bitcoin adoption, so why not facilitate this process?

You may think that your own refusal to make a purchase won’t matter, but it will, it’s how it works. If you don’t do it - your friends and the friends of your friends, etc. might be less inclined to use Bitcoin as well in the future. If everyone starts acting like it, then Bitcoin will simply become an asset for whales and will lose its meaning as a currency.

I’m not trying to push you to it or something, it’s just that it seems to me that many people have a similar vision and I’m interested in the reasons behind it.

The value of bitcoin reflect every time we use it in different ways like payments method or as an asset and investment. The growing adoption of bitcoin shows how valuable it is that even those different institution are now adopting and investing in cryptocurrency which is  a good news because the demand for bitcoin will continue to increase.

What you seem to forget is despite the fact we can see more and more shops starting to accept Bitcoin as a payment mean (at a low rate speed to me). Only a few of them actually keep the amount in crypto. Surely less than 10%. All others convert the coins to their national currency (and it's often done automatically).
To increase their sales is the only true motivation they have, it's not because they believe in the market. If a day Bitcoin goes down to 10 bucks and people abandon it, they will abandon it too, and even surely faster than the bitcoiners themselves.

I concur with @adzino's comment also. I suppose when you say you're happy to see shops accepting BTC but don't want to use, it's because you bet on the bitcoin's price to be higher in the future. Which mean basically you're mainly interested to speculate but that's not really how the ecosystem can evolve. If nobody wants to pay in BTC then nothing will change and we will get stuck where we are today.

It will go to that point in the future, we just have to wait for it to happen, the government of many countries are just trying to feel the water to see if everything's fine and an extensive study might be able to help their decisions. I don't really like the use of bitcoin as a currency but I do welcome it from happening.

You want to see more merchants accepting cryptocurrencies, but you won't be using it for making payments. Then wouldn't that just put off merchants from wanting to adopt/accept the cryptocurrencies? It's totally understandable as to why you don't want to use bitcoin to make payments, but the more the people use it, the more the world will be accepting towards cryptocurrencies. As people become more accepting, we will be see rapid development where solutions to the current problems with crypto currencies can be found. And with this, we will see the true value of crypto currencies reflect.

We do not want Bitcoin to be a trend, because trends come and go... we want Bitcoin to become a "legal" currency, that can be used widely at different merchants offering products and services.

You remember the days when you were a child and you went through the different "trends" ..like playing with YoYo's and the next month it was, Rubik's Cubes etc... well, we do not want Bitcoin to be the trend for a month or two.. and then it is gone and forgotten.     (Let's make it a long-term Brand for alternative currencies.... The Coca~Cola of currencies) 

Interesting. Depends on what they do with the investments. I think a cryptocurrency will benefit more from investors that use more of such investment within the cryptocurrency economy, rather than for purposes that would make price movements very risky or volatile.

The kind of circulatory regulation isn't suppose to be for cryptocurrency but for fiat through the financial body. That is why bitcoin is far more integrated with the blockchain. The circulation is not controlled unlike fiat. Many regulatory measures have started opening up in the cryptocurrency space but that is in the exchange confines and I don't think a total regulation of cryptocurrency will have a big possibility.

That actually such a great news, more companies adopting cryptocurrency payments, then it will be more great for cryptocurrency to be used as a currency, not merely a speculation tool. Especially if it's for clothes, that i believe most people will need and buy, it has a wide range of customers and i hope many people will be delighted with this too. Who knows that the sellers will be lucky too if the price of the cryptocurrency went up, so they can gain additional profit from it. I'm excited to see how the future will be, maybe in the future, this kind of news won't surprise us anymore since it's becoming too normal already, cryptocurrency payment is so common that everyone knows and use it already.

The adoption of bitcoin as a mean of payment is one of the support for the use and function of bitcoin as a currency. This trend will probably become more popular if the regulation are changed to be friendly toward using bitcoin as a currency. So far, many countries allow the use of bitcoin as a mean of payment, this increases demand so that in some ways it can affect the price.

What is the value essence and value support of luxury goods? Diamonds are forever, and one is always passed on. So what is the nature of diamonds?

Many people have never understood why it is valuable, let alone why Bitcoin is more than 100,000 U.S. dollars. The most incomprehensible thing is that one coin one villa is often said in the currency circle. If you don’t understand the value of Bitcoin, then you are It is never possible to hold Bitcoin for a long time.

I also bought this company's clothes, the quality seems to be bad.
Big bucks entering crypto are always good news。
These are better news,everyone see the advantages of Bitcoin.I am very happy to see good news things every day,

Germany allows certain institutional funds to invest in cryptocurrencies, and institutional investors can invest up to 20% of their holdings in Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
https://zycrypto.com/german-law-that-could-potentially-see-415-billion-flowing-into-cryptocurrencies-becomes-effective-next-monday/
This means that more institutions will enter the market and raise the price of the currency. For example, Bitcoin can further preserve its value and achieve the purpose of anti-inflation.

German luxury Philipp Plein accepts cryptocurrency payments.
https://www.drapersonline.com/news/philipp-plein-to-accept-cryptocurrency-in-fashion-first
Many friends may not be very familiar with this brand. Before I went to the mall to buy their clothes, so for me, I was shocked by the news. I never thought they would accept cryptocurrency as the official payment method.
Therefore, I think that the future of cryptocurrency is a big trend, not an inevitable event, but a high probability event.
Philipp Plein's acceptance of cryptocurrency is also subject to risk assessment, because capitalists consider profit maximization. If they are optimistic about the market, then accepting cryptocurrency is actually a win-win situation.

• More merchants will endorse the acceptance of cryptocurrency.
• Merchants can earn profits from rising cryptocurrencies.

For me, I would like to see more merchants willing to accept cryptocurrency payments, but I will not use cryptocurrency for payment.
The technology of cryptocurrency has become more and more mature, and what still needs to be strengthened is the regulatory level. From the perspective of circulation, we can see whether the future of cryptocurrency is valuable.