Which one's better Wasabi or Sparrow

arabspaceship123

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 23, 2023, 02:28:54 AM

Yeah. As I said to you in another post, the wait time for remixing is by far the biggest downside to Whirlpool. Getting unlimited free remixes for an output is obviously very attractive, but much less so when you can be waiting weeks for a single remix.

Thanks you've been helpful giving advice. Unlimited free mixes isn't the only attractive element Sparrow's presenting. If you've patience waiting for whirlpool mixes you're fine. If you can't wait for completion mixes you shouldn't use it.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 23, 2023, 02:28:54 AM

If you don't need your coins mixed quickly and can leave your node and wallet running 24/7, then you can just leave them there and forget about them. They will get remixed eventually. But if you need them remixed quickly, then you need to look at either JoinMarket (but this will cost you to pay for 5+ remixes) or a mixer such as Whirlwind.

I've tested Sparrow on windows computer it was grim experience waiting for mixes. If Sparrow doesn't mix inside guaranteed times parameters I won't use it 24/7 if I found suitable RPi4. If Whirlwind & JoinMarket's something I'm able to test I'll post reviews.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 23, 2023, 02:28:54 AM

And yeah, I wouldn't even bother downloading and testing Wasabi. It doesn't matter what their software is like when they are actively colluding with blockchain analysis behind the scenes.

I won't use Wasabi wallet. Their reputation's over their customers aren't stupid they'll use alternatives.

Quote from: hugeblack on June 21, 2023, 10:30:29 AM

What is the point of comparison you want? I think you are talking about which is better in terms of privacy.

Wasabi's blockchain analysis collaborations stopped privacy comparisons so privacy aside which ones's thought to be better?

Quote from: DireWolfM14 on June 21, 2023, 12:11:49 PM

I haven't used coinjoin wallets at all, I prefer to launder my bitcoin through p2p exchanges and Monero, for various reasons. Not that I don't trust coinjoin, but it's worth noting that coinjoin coordinators are centralized services, and there are expenses that can be avoided by using my preferred methods. I'm rarely in a hurry to break links to my bitcoin, which is good because my methods can take some time. I don't mind hodling XMR, which is also good because patience is required.

I don't know how XMR works so I've downloaded Monero light wallet for tests today. In first impressions it's similarity to Electrum can't be missed. If it's giving reasonable privacy without paying mixing fees it's worth testing.

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I have given a try to both of them and I must way that Sparrow worked the best in my opinion.
It worked perfectly when used with hardware wallets and also find very useful how they give you the option to calculate your fees either based on blocks or on the classical method of looking at the mempool.

It is also quite lightweight in comparison to other wallets and synchronizes quite fast.

When I tried Wasabi, it gave me problems of synchronization and could not take a look at my transaction history, so I ended up deleting it off my PC.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Bureau on June 23, 2023, 07:00:26 AM

Both have their pros and cons. The main difference between these two wallets is that one is privacy focused, I am referring to the wasabi wallet.

It used to be in the past, but not anymore. You can't say you are pro-privacy, and at the same time make a partnership with a company whose objective is to spy and deanonymize UTXOs and their users. Imagine someone saying they are fighting for the rights of gays by forming a union with a party whose future objective is to fire gays and lesbians from civil services.

Bureau

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Both have their pros and cons. The main difference between these two wallets is that one is privacy focused, I am referring to the wasabi wallet. The other is feature rich. Compare both features and you know the major difference between the two wallets. My opinion is that it all depends on your need to choose a wallet for storing Bitcoin.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: arabspaceship123 on June 22, 2023, 05:16:47 PM

There's positive options in Sparrow but I wasn't persuaded by long periods waiting for whirlpool mixes.

Yeah. As I said to you in another post, the wait time for remixing is by far the biggest downside to Whirlpool. Getting unlimited free remixes for an output is obviously very attractive, but much less so when you can be waiting weeks for a single remix.

If you don't need your coins mixed quickly and can leave your node and wallet running 24/7, then you can just leave them there and forget about them. They will get remixed eventually. But if you need them remixed quickly, then you need to look at either JoinMarket (but this will cost you to pay for 5+ remixes) or a mixer.

And yeah, I wouldn't even bother downloading and testing Wasabi. It doesn't matter what their software is like when they are actively colluding with blockchain analysis behind the scenes.

arabspaceship123

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I wasn't expecting high activity so thanks everybody

There hasn't been vouches for Wasabi. They're partnered with a blockchain company to study UTXO's. Spying for granting or denying coinjoins hasn't been received with community open arms. Wasabi's much timelier to mix 100% privacy level against Sparrow's mixes. All the same you're saying Wasabi can't be trusted for reasons you've given so that's noted.

I've completed Sparrow Wallet testing. If they don't release big updates I won't be repeat testing Sparrow wallet. There's positive options in Sparrow but I wasn't persuaded by long periods waiting for whirlpool mixes. I'll write another post to explain.

Quote from: DaveF on June 21, 2023, 06:13:10 AM

Sparrow by far.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 21, 2023, 08:07:44 AM

Sparrow is the best choice by far.

Quote from: Pmalek on June 21, 2023, 10:43:29 AM

I have not used either, but if I needed to use one, it wouldn't be Wasabi.

Quote from: dkbit98 on June 21, 2023, 04:44:29 PM

Sparrow is way better Bitcoin wallet than Wasabi

dkbit98

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 22, 2023, 03:54:50 AM

It's not difficult, just time consuming to let your node sync for the first time. If your node and Sparrow are on the same device, then Sparrow will connect to your node with a couple of clicks, and connecting to the Whirlpool coordinator via Tor is a simple as having Tor running in the background and Sparrow does the rest.

You don't have to explain this to me, I was putting myself in place of newbies who know only to click and open wallet, everything else is complicated for them.
People like comfort and ease of use, and most people already showed how much they ^(don't)care about privacy....
Samurai wallet is controversial at best, and I don't really trust them so much to use it for this purpose.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: dkbit98 on June 21, 2023, 04:44:29 PM

You can't use Sparrow for mixing coins until you run your own node and connect it with Samourai, that is not exactly user friendly for most newbies.

It's not difficult, just time consuming to let your node sync for the first time. If your node and Sparrow are on the same device, then Sparrow will connect to your node with a couple of clicks, and connecting to the Whirlpool coordinator via Tor is a simple as having Tor running in the background and Sparrow does the rest.

If you are serious about your privacy, then you should be running your own node anyway. There's not much point coinjoining if you are then going to link all your coins together again by relying on an Electrum server (for example) which is run by the NSA.

dkbit98

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Quote from: arabspaceship123 on June 21, 2023, 05:24:05 AM

If you've used Wasabi or Sparrow please share your knowledge. What's the best & worst experience using them? What advice would you offer friends about these mixing wallets?

Sparrow is way better Bitcoin wallet than Wasabi, it has better use interface but I wouldn't say any of them is better for mixing Bitcoin.
You can't use Sparrow for mixing coins until you run your own node and connect it with Samourai, that is not exactly user friendly for most newbies.
Wasabi on the other hand is using controversial coinjoin feature with coordinator, but it's very easy to use it out of the box, even for newbies.
But if I had to exclude mixing part than I would have to say that Sparrow is better overall Bitcoin wallet.

DireWolfM14

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I haven't used coinjoin wallets at all, I prefer to launder my bitcoin through p2p exchanges and Monero, for various reasons. Not that I don't trust coinjoin, but it's worth noting that coinjoin coordinators are centralized services, and there are expenses that can be avoided by using my preferred methods. I'm rarely in a hurry to break links to my bitcoin, which is good because my methods can take some time. I don't mind hodling XMR, which is also good because patience is required.

Having said that, I would never use Wasabi after their Chain Analysis announcement from last year. That leaves only Sparrow and Samourai wallets which use the Whirlpool coinjoin coordinator. I've played around with Sparrow, and find it to be a very good piece of software. It has a lot of great features, including some privacy features that are hard to find in other wallets. Since I'm versed at using other privacy enhancement methods, and I self-host several services that work better than features Sparrow offers, Sparrow hasn't been able to win me over from Electrum as my main wallet software. If it wasn't for all that I would be using Sparrow.

BlackHatCoiner

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Before Wasabi team implemented blacklists, I had found it pretty neat. After that happened, everything went downfall. I found out the developers are outright liars, the coinjoin software is caught to reusing addresses, their admin is attacking their competitor through bad means, and all the other things noted in the Wasabi thread that made me wanna stay away from them.

I don't know much about the Sparrow whirlpool, beyond that it's using Samurai's whirlpool. I've tried it once, but due to the fact that I'm genuinely concerned about the entire Samurai and Wasabi conflict, I'd go with JoinMarket and sleep easy.

Pmalek

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I have not used either, but if I needed to use one, it wouldn't be Wasabi. The reasons are self-explanatory. They are supposed to be a privacy tool. Yet, they see no issues in partnering with those that spy on your transactions to determine if you are allowed to have privacy or not. Instead of abandoning that stupid idea or at least staying quite, their response involved throwing dirt and deanonymize other services and its developers. No thanks!

hugeblack

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What is the point of comparison you want? I think you are talking about which is better in terms of privacy. If so, Sparrow provides many privacy features that you can use to enhance and break the link between your addresses, while Wasabi provides dubious privacy because it generates addresses for CoinJoin transactions that can be identified by currency tracking services^[1]. This happened when Twitter was hacked^[2] for the last time.

Therefore, in terms of privacy and the possibility of linking the wallet to hardware wallets, Sparrow is the best.

[1] Elliptic Identifies Likely Use of Wasabi Wallet Service to Launder Twitter Hack Bitcoins
[2] https://www.coindesk.com/business/2020/07/15/everything-we-know-about-the-bitcoin-scam-rocking-twitters-most-prominent-accounts/

NotATether

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I have used Sparrow (once). I have not used Wasabi Wallet, not even before their coordinator started censoring transactions so I cannot tell you anything about it from a functional point of view.

In Sparrow, you can connect to Electrum servers and full nodes - whichever one you fancy. Although last time I tried connecting with a full node I couldn't quite get the connection working.

DaveF

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Sorry, talk -> text -> remote connection from phone to PC -> Posting and what I was trying to say came out as something entirely else with about 75% of the post mising....
Leaving it up for now but

As of now Whirlpool that sparrow uses is the same as Wasabi but it has support to move to others.
Followed by the comments of using a service with known issues is not the same as creating and setting it up that way.
Followed by since you can connect to your own node servers easily there are more ways to get privacy.

More or less what o_e_l_e_o posted.

-Dave

o_e_l_e_o

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Sparrow does indeed use Samourai's Whirlpool.

Agree completely with DaveF above. Sparrow is the best choice by far. The most important thing with Sparrow is to ensure it is pointed at your own node and connecting to the Whirlpool coordinator via Tor, but this is all very easy to set up (literally a couple of clicks).

Wasabi use the fees you pay them to actively fund blockchain analysis and pay the company Coinfirm to analyze your UTXOs, spy on your transactions, and decide whether or not you are even allowed to use their coinjoin implementation at all. Here's some fun code from Wasabi (https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi/blob/795496595fae2f52730e1556bb6cafd2c649bb97/WalletWasabi.Tests/UnitTests/WabiSabi/Backend/CoinVerifierTests.cs#L133-L142):

Code:

ScheduleVerifications(coinVerifier, generatedCoins);
foreach (var item in await coinVerifier.VerifyCoinsAsync(generatedCoins, CancellationToken.None))
{
if (item.ShouldBan)
{
naughtyCoins.Add(item.Coin);
}
}

Assert.Empty(naughtyCoins); // Empty, so we won't kick out anyone from the CJ round.

Are your coins "naughty"? Once Wasabi have spied on them and made that decision, then you will be banned from coinjoining them with Wasabi. Roll Eyes

Add in the fact that they suffer from endemic address reuse (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.61220171, https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5286821), and I would steer well clear of ever using Wasabi.

mk4

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Quote from: DaveF on June 21, 2023, 06:21:11 AM

They were asking about Sparrow not Samourai

Not sure if I get it — but doesn't Sparrow share the same pool as Samourai's? Like with them just basically implementing Samourai's whirlpool in their UI?

https://sparrowwallet.com/features/

DaveF

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Quote from: mk4 on June 21, 2023, 06:14:34 AM

There have been a lot of debates between Wasabi vs Samourai mixers that I don't really understand which one is superior. But based on what I've been seeing — Wasabi is apparently superior than Samourai. I couldn't fully understand it so I just picked the one with better public sentiment. (P.S. this is besides the Wasabi chain analysis thing.)

They were asking about Sparrow not Samourai

But if you look into it Whirlpool (what Sparrow uses) seems to be getting more and more support. Can't tell if it's because of the Wasabi backlash or just in general more people are using it. There really is no way to tell why since outside of a few people here I don't think a lot of people are going to come out and say why they are using a particular wallet or service.

-Dave

mk4

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There have been a lot of debates between Wasabi vs Samourai mixers that I don't really understand which one is superior. But based on what I've been seeing — Wasabi is apparently superior than Samourai. I couldn't fully understand it so I just picked the one with better public sentiment. (P.S. this is besides the Wasabi chain analysis thing.)

DaveF

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Sparrow by far.

Read the last 10 pages or so in the Wasabi thread. They are censoring transactions that the coin analysis firm they deal with do not approve of.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5286821.580

Sparrow also has a lot more privacy features and can do a few other things that you may or may not care about.
i.e. tracing coins back to when they were mined is neat, but how many times are you going to need it.

The only person really supporting Wasabi at the moment here is someone who is a contributor to them. Where as just about everyone else is running away.

-Dave

arabspaceship123

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If you've used Wasabi or Sparrow please share your knowledge. What's the best & worst experience using them? What advice would you offer friends about these mixing wallets?

I'll post Wasabi & Sparrow reviews when I've finished testing

Topic: Which one's better Wasabi or Sparrow (Read 319 times)