Which wallets support 32 word seed phrases

nc50lc

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on January 31, 2024, 10:40:35 AM

Quote from: EL MOHA on January 30, 2024, 05:54:02 PM

You know the 128 bits of entropy in 12 seed phrases is same thing as the 128 bits of security in private key which is same for both 24 words seed phrase. So technically anything that can brute force that 128 bit’s security of private key will definitely render a 24 seed phrase vulnerable.

Please correct me if I am wrong, the entropy of a bitcoin's address is 256 bits as they are generated using elliptic curve cryptography (ECDSA) with the secp256k1 curve.

Not a correction but he must be talking about the security level of a Bitcoin Private key which is 128-bit in terms of ECDLP (Elliptic Curve Discrete Logarithm Problem)
which would only require that much work to calculate the private key from the public key.

Although, I can't agree with his reply about the entropy of a 24-word seed phrase which is 256 bits, is only 128bits in security,
because BIP39's entropy is not susceptible to ECDLP unlike an ECDSA Private key.
But I agree with the next statement that it comes down to bruteforcing the words (with leaked words) instead of the entropy. And 128bits is very secure.

Kelward

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Quote from: Mia Chloe on January 29, 2024, 05:18:49 PM

You can do that on Electrum when you create a wallet there is an option to add custom words of your choice.
However most seed phrases like other users mentioned are usually 12, 18 , or 24 words. However most wallets usually make use of 12 as a default number of words for the seed phrase when you create a wallet.
I recommend you make use of electrum if you want to add your custom words as electrum is safe and open source.
Don't forget to keep your keys safe.

This is an interesting thread for me to really increase my knowledge about extended wallet seed phrase, like most crypto users I never thought anything beyond 24 seed phrases exist, thanks to your comment that helped the OP to start to unlock this puzzle, I never thought about the 12 default numbers, I really hope that he'll be able to figure out how to access the uncle's wallet, so that the coins in it will not be a waste.

igor72

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on January 29, 2024, 04:22:37 PM

32 words can not make a valid seed phrase. Seed phrase will be 12,15,18, 21 or 24 words long.

Yes, 32 words can not make a valid BIP39 seed phrase. But it is possible to create such a seed phrase in Electrum. Here's an example: mountain grain quiz empty dinosaur venue brave trick juice fold short start father noise angle pave saddle kit alert circle insane inject hire bean chunk milk fresh minor wrong soul collect zebra.

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: EL MOHA on January 30, 2024, 05:54:02 PM

Quote from: jrrsparkles on January 30, 2024, 10:53:27 AM

Technically, entropy of 24 words recovery seeds is higher than entropy of 12 words recovery seeds.

12*128= 1536 bits while 24*128= 3072 bits

So if someone tries to brutefoce the recovery seeds, then higher the entropy then they need a longer time with more computational power. But this none applies if seeds are leaked/accessed by someone.

You know the 128 bits of entropy in 12 seed phrases is same thing as the 128 bits of security in private key which is same for both 24 words seed phrase. So technically anything that can brute force that 128 bit’s security of private key will definitely render a 24 seed phrase vulnerable.

Although a 24 seed phrase has higher bits of entropy and is considered a better option according to bip32 but the brute force depends on the number of words available. If 23 words out of the 24 words seed phrase is known then it is easier to brute force it than the 11 words of a 12 seed phrase. Because according to calculations I once saw in this forum it is just an 8 possibilities for the missing word in 24 seed phrase but 128 possibilities for a 12 seed phrase. But if it is the entire words missing then 24 seed phrase precedes the 12 word.

The best thing though is adding a passphrase as a second layer security,

Please correct me if I am wrong, the entropy of a bitcoin's address is 256 bits as they are generated using elliptic curve cryptography (ECDSA) with the secp256k1 curve.

But brute-forcing an address can only reveal the funds from that address while brute-forcing seeds will lead to access funds from all the addresses generated using the seeds, so it is always better to have higher entropy but you are right even though the entropy of 12 words seeds looks small still it is impossible to brute force.

nc50lc

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Quote from: anotherblocker on January 30, 2024, 10:59:39 PM

It seems the link only supports version 2 words and not version 3, or there is some way to indicate to it that is a version3 mnemonic that I am unaware of.
Or maybe there is another URL for version3 recovery. I will keep looking though.

AFAIK, "/recover-wallet" and "/forgot-password" the only legacy recovery page that they have, do not put your seed in any other site that you can find.
The other is for the latest version 12-word BIP39 compatible recovery phrase.
If it's not accepted in the legacy version, it may not be an old Blockchain.info account recovery phrase.

And yes, the v3 words from the archive of their old site seem different from the words that their old recovery page supports,
looks like from an unused version: github.com/blockchain/unused-My-Wallet/blob/master/mnemonic_words_v3.html
But does each of your words has a match there?
Because if it is, it may be from that version, contacting their support and directly request for technical support may help. (it'll be slow though)
If not, it may be from a different wallet entirely.

anotherblocker

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Quote from: nc50lc on January 30, 2024, 02:48:01 AM

Quote from: anotherblocker on January 30, 2024, 01:34:57 AM

Only matching 8 words makes it seem like a lost cause though, since in that case the extended word list would have to be huge. I will ask his other family, maybe somebody helped him set this up and he forgot to add their name. Otherwise let me know if there are other words lists I can try.

Go to this word list and check if each of those 32 words has a match in this list; old Blockchain.info word list: archive.org

If matched, it's an old "Blockchain.info" wallet 'walletid and password' recovery phrase which can be restored here: login.blockchain.com/wallet/recover-wallet
However, you'll also need to have access to the email address associated with the account for login authentication and recovery purposes.

I started testing the recover wallet link you sent to see if it would be able to recover the wallet id. I did check 10 times to make sure the certificate of the website looked valid etc..and only typed the first two or three words. The first two words were recognised..but the third word was not. I tested with other words from the version 2 of the dictionary and they also worked. It seems the link only supports version 2 words and not version 3, or there is some way to indicate to it that is a version3 mnemonic that I am unaware of.
Or maybe there is another URL for version3 recovery. I will keep looking though.

We have gotten access to his Gmail email address since he wrote down the password. But that wasn't the one used for his blockchain account. So now we are trying to get access to an iCloud email. But will have to reset that password. I must say apple password reset is a monster.

EL MOHA

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on January 30, 2024, 10:53:27 AM

Technically, entropy of 24 words recovery seeds is higher than entropy of 12 words recovery seeds.

12*128= 1536 bits while 24*128= 3072 bits

So if someone tries to brutefoce the recovery seeds, then higher the entropy then they need a longer time with more computational power. But this none applies if seeds are leaked/accessed by someone.

You know the 128 bits of entropy in 12 seed phrases is same thing as the 128 bits of security in private key which is same for both 24 words seed phrase. So technically anything that can brute force that 128 bit’s security of private key will definitely render a 24 seed phrase vulnerable.

Although a 24 seed phrase has higher bits of entropy and is considered a better option according to bip32 but the brute force depends on the number of words available. If 23 words out of the 24 words seed phrase is known then it is easier to brute force it than the 11 words of a 12 seed phrase. Because according to calculations I once saw in this forum it is just an 8 possibilities for the missing word in 24 seed phrase but 128 possibilities for a 12 seed phrase. But if it is the entire words missing then 24 seed phrase precedes the 12 word.

The best thing though is adding a passphrase as a second layer security,

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: KiaKia on January 30, 2024, 05:13:08 AM

I don't always buy this idea of having more words in your seed phrases to add more security layer, nah, because even if your recovery seed is in 100 different words, once it get leaked its over.

Worry more about keeping the 12 seed phrases safe first, avoid all the possible ways of mistakenly or stupidly leaking the phrases yourself, the problem isn't the numbers of the words but how people keep the recovery phrases safe and secured.

Technically, entropy of 24 words recovery seeds is higher than entropy of 12 words recovery seeds.

12*128= 1536 bits while 24*128= 3072 bits

So if someone tries to brutefoce the recovery seeds, then higher the entropy then they need a longer time with more computational power. But this none applies if seeds are leaked/accessed by someone.

hd49728

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You will need wallet ID reminder https://login.blockchain.com/#/reminder
Try to brute force with guide from this video Brute-force your online blockchain.info wallet with btcrecover

At the end, if you fail to do it by yourself, try https://walletrecoveryservices.com/

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I don't always buy this idea of having more words in your seed phrases to add more security layer, nah, because even if your recovery seed is in 100 different words, once it get leaked its over.

Worry more about keeping the 12 seed phrases safe first, avoid all the possible ways of mistakenly or stupidly leaking the phrases yourself, the problem isn't the numbers of the words but how people keep the recovery phrases safe and secured.

Even if you have a hardware wallet you need to do the same thing, I have a hardware wallet and I use the 24 words but I also used this 24 words in a old compromised wallet years ago, how stupidly I handled the recovery phrases was why it got compromised, so it doesn't matter, be this serious with how to secured the recovery phrases.

anotherblocker

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Quote from: nc50lc on January 30, 2024, 02:48:01 AM

Quote from: anotherblocker on January 30, 2024, 01:34:57 AM

Only matching 8 words makes it seem like a lost cause though, since in that case the extended word list would have to be huge. I will ask his other family, maybe somebody helped him set this up and he forgot to add their name. Otherwise let me know if there are other words lists I can try.

Go to this word list and check if each of those 32 words has a match in this list; old Blockchain.info word list: archive.org

If matched, it's an old "Blockchain.info" wallet 'walletid and password' recovery phrase which can be restored here: login.blockchain.com/wallet/recover-wallet
However, you'll also need to have access to the email address associated with the account for login authentication and recovery purposes.

All the words match perfectly! Thanks for the suggestion, I would not have found this on my own. The fact that it is on wayback machine... makes it especially hard. So thanks for the suggestion! Wow, it's a wordlist of 65591 words that is very intimidating. The one word I couldnt check of course is the one illegible word (or I should really say missing word).
Thanks this at least seems to be the right direction! I will have to find out if my aunt still has access to his email addresses. But it might not even matter, since the one missing word could matter if we need to reset the account.

nc50lc

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Quote from: anotherblocker on January 30, 2024, 01:34:57 AM

Only matching 8 words makes it seem like a lost cause though, since in that case the extended word list would have to be huge. I will ask his other family, maybe somebody helped him set this up and he forgot to add their name. Otherwise let me know if there are other words lists I can try.

Go to this word list and check if each of those 32 words has a match in this list; old Blockchain.info word list: archive.org

If matched, it's an old "Blockchain.info" wallet 'walletid and password' recovery phrase which can be restored here: login.blockchain.com/wallet/recover-wallet
However, you'll also need to have access to the email address associated with the account for login authentication and recovery purposes.

anotherblocker

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Thanks for the help everyone. I've tried looking up the words on the BIP39 word list and only 8 out of the 32 words match the words on the word list.

However, there are definitely clues that he didn't add the words just on the paper since he wrote it in the form:

In order:
1. word1
2. word2
...
20. ~~word21~~ word20
21. word21
...
32. word32

So at least that signals to me that these words were displayed to him in order and he accidentally skipped the one and had to correct it. So I agree an extended word list would the most likely ... However, the fact that so few of the words are in the words list is worrying. I can see a common theme in many of the other words though. They often seem to be biblical words like Heaven (made up example)... about 12 of the words have a biblical theme.

Only matching 8 words makes it seem like a lost cause though, since in that case the extended word list would have to be huge. I will ask his other family, maybe somebody helped him set this up and he forgot to add their name. Otherwise let me know if there are other words lists I can try.

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Quote from: anotherblocker on January 29, 2024, 04:20:04 PM

Hi there. I inherited a Bitcoin wallet seed phrase from my uncle, but he didn't capture all the details. It's a list of 32 words. However all the wallets I tried so far only use 12,18 and 24 words. The words also seem a bit different to the typical words I remember seeing in my own wallet phrases. Lastly the one word is hard to make out, but will cross that bridge once I know what type of wallet this is. Any help would be appreciated. Let me know if you need more detail.

Hmm, what an interesting case! First of all, I'm sorry for your loss of your uncle. Second, it would probably be much help if you could explain all of the details since you seem to indicate that you have other details to be kept (not the sensitive and prohibited details, though). I tried to Google it too, but I couldn't find any significant information.

Quote from: Zaguru12 on January 29, 2024, 04:56:24 PM

It’s definitely an added word by the owner of the seed phrase, right now you need to find how to gets those words and since you said some words are not familiar they might not be from BIP39 seed phrase. You can check the list here, maybe you can filter those words out that are not here. Then you might be facing a problem of whether the wallet is passphrase or not which is another problem aside the right arrangement of the words if gotten (although can be solved by bitarecover tool).

With the assumption that current wallets are using Bip39, you may consider Zaguru12's advice to check the dictionary list and eliminate the words that aren't suitable, then re-arrange the order using the tools he recommends. Or probably try the Electrum wallet, like most of our fellows recommend here.

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Quote from: anotherblocker on January 29, 2024, 04:20:04 PM

Hi there. I inherited a Bitcoin wallet seed phrase from my uncle, but he didn't capture all the details. It's a list of 32 words. However all the wallets I tried so far only use 12,18 and 24 words. The words also seem a bit different to the typical words I remember seeing in my own wallet phrases. Lastly the one word is hard to make out, but will cross that bridge once I know what type of wallet this is. Any help would be appreciated. Let me know if you need more detail.

I don't think a 32 word seed phrase can make any sense. Just like @Charles Tim said that 32word phrase can not make a valid seed phrase. And I have not heard of such.

alastantiger

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Quote from: anotherblocker on January 29, 2024, 04:20:04 PM

Hi there. I inherited a Bitcoin wallet seed phrase from my uncle, but he didn't capture all the details. It's a list of 32 words.

You have gotten very helpful and useful replies.

I do not mean to sound insensitive but this is to the fellow bitcoiners in our community. If you have the intention of passing down your wallets someone, please keep the process simple and make it easy for them. Imagine if the OP didn't have some knowledge about bitcoin and naively added the 32 word list here. Or receiving a PM from a scammer offering to help sort out the words if he sends them to him.

It is essential to make it simple and easy for anyone who will want to inherit our wallets when we are gone so there will be no hassles. Have in mind that your goals are accessibility for the heirs and security of your assets. The overall suggestions is to write down the seed phrase along with any associated information that might be needed for wallet recovery. Then storing them in steel plate. Additionally, you may also choose to inform a trusted member of the family or involve legal professionals to ensure a clear and legally binding process.

hd49728

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You only can make a wallet with 12, 15, 18, 21 or 24 words for a wallet seed phrase.

https://bitaps.com/mnemonic
[overview] Recover Bitcoin from any old storage format
The FinderOuter, a bitcoin recovery tool (v0.19.1 2024-01-24). Use it offline.

BitMaxz

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Why not try to import that 32-word seed phrase into Electrum just enable bip39 and extended words to make this seed phrase valid and let's see if you can find the wallet with funds.

Or maybe the seed phrase that you have from your uncle is SLIP39 seed with missing one word?
Better check the device where your uncle generated this seed phrase you can may be able to find some idea under his browser history.

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Quote from: anotherblocker on January 29, 2024, 04:20:04 PM

Hi there. I inherited a Bitcoin wallet seed phrase from my uncle, but he didn't capture all the details. It's a list of 32 words. However all the wallets I tried so far only use 12,18 and 24 words.

How sure are you that it's not either of the numbers seed phrase tiure referring to, at least if something is relevant as that, I don't think there should be an omission on the words that make up the complete seeds, maybe what you're referring to as incomplete is not part of what constitutes the seed phrase.

Quote from: anotherblocker on January 29, 2024, 04:20:04 PM

The words also seem a bit different to the typical words I remember seeing in my own wallet phrases. Lastly the one word is hard to make out, but will cross that bridge once I know what type of wallet this is. Any help would be appreciated. Let me know if you need more detail.

Anything can comes up as a seed phrase words, it doesn't have to be something that relates to your personal wallet, maybe other experience members will share their own idea on this aspect.

Mia Chloe

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You can do that on Electrum when you create a wallet there is an option to add custom words of your choice.
However most seed phrases like other users mentioned are usually 12, 18 , or 24 words. However most wallets usually make use of 12 as a default number of words for the seed phrase when you create a wallet.
I recommend you make use of electrum if you want to add your custom words as electrum is safe and open source.
Don't forget to keep your keys safe.

Zaguru12

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It’s definitely an added word by the owner of the seed phrase, right now you need to find how to gets those words and since you said some words are not familiar they might not be from BIP39 seed phrase. You can check the list here, maybe you can filter those words out that are not here. Then you might be facing a problem of whether the wallet is passphrase or not which is another problem aside the right arrangement of the words if gotten (although can be solved by bitarecover tool).

Coyster

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I think your uncle added more words himself. People invent their own method of security and either back up their seed phrase in the wrong order or add extra words to it, they do this thinking it will protect them from attackers, but on the other hand what it does is make open a possibility of you losing access to your funds, because you forgot how you obscured things.

Knight Hider

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Maybe he added words to make it harder for thieves.

Charles-Tim

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32 words can not make a valid seed phrase. Seed phrase will be 12,15,18, 21 or 24 words long.

anotherblocker

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Hi there. I inherited a Bitcoin wallet seed phrase from my uncle, but he didn't capture all the details. It's a list of 32 words. However all the wallets I tried so far only use 12,18 and 24 words. The words also seem a bit different to the typical words I remember seeing in my own wallet phrases. Lastly the one word is hard to make out, but will cross that bridge once I know what type of wallet this is. Any help would be appreciated. Let me know if you need more detail.

Topic: Which wallets support 32 word seed phrases (Read 278 times)