Who is behind the flash crash? | Bitcointalksearch.org

wasserman99

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Quote from: kerafym on August 28, 2014, 11:01:33 AM

Quote from: Coinfan on August 24, 2014, 11:10:13 PM

Even on regulated markets it's very common to find people explaining their loses on manipulation from whales or inside informers, without any evidence.

The responsibility is never ours, there is always an obscure reason to explain our debacles.

Flash clash has to be caused by whale, since they are the only group that hold that many bitcoins and can dump that much on the market.

It was caused by there being less amounts of credit available on the exchange for people to borrow money to buy bitcoin on margin. When the first people were forced to sell, this caused the prices to drop, which caused others to have to sell because of margin calls, and the effect cascaded. This is why the price was generally lower on exchanges that offered margin.

Ayers

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the dead of hal finley is, also, because apparently he sold a large quantity for his hibernation

yunkie

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Vitalik cashing out for some lambos Roll Eyes

Coinfan

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Even if whales were the main driver of flash crashes, that wouldn't mean it was any kind of manipulative conspiracy. Sometimes people forget that whales have much bigger headaches than small fish, because it isn't easy to sell their holdings.

Whales also make mistakes, trade in panic and when they lose, they really lose.

Think on Soros. He has much more trouble sleeping than most of us. We can have the money in a bank and have a public insurance on the deposit. He can't. He has too much money for that. If he bets on the wrong bank, he is screwed.

But a breach of a support line can also trigger crashes. Many traders start selling and you have a crash.

Anyway, as I wrote, the chinese are leading the market. Therefore, our whales have no other choice than dump their coins when the chinese decided it was time to sell. Conspiracies? Not from westerns, we are the puppets.

ahoenk

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IMO There is someone who hold a lot of BTC, and the man who hold it get the BTC from illegal way ( Scam/fraud/something like that ) and that man only want a cash fiat, thats why he sold it at very low price...

kerafym

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THE GAME OF CHANCE. CHANGED.

Quote from: Coinfan on August 24, 2014, 11:10:13 PM

Even on regulated markets it's very common to find people explaining their loses on manipulation from whales or inside informers, without any evidence.

The responsibility is never ours, there is always an obscure reason to explain our debacles.

Flash clash has to be caused by whale, since they are the only group that hold that many bitcoins and can dump that much on the market.

catlinhappy

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Quote from: Kluge on August 18, 2014, 11:24:20 PM

Most likely, this is Satoshi. We have turned our backs on His ideals and now He is punishing us. If we do not correct and turn to the way of Our Lord, He will shake hands so harshly, only the purist of Idealoshis will stay in.

I strongly believe so too.Otherwise what other explanation can be given to the unexpected turn around in the price of BTC if not a ''taste of the rout of Satoshi''.

Coinfan

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Even on regulated markets it's very common to find people explaining their loses on manipulation from whales or inside informers, without any evidence.

The responsibility is never ours, there is always an obscure reason to explain our debacles.

wasserman99

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Quote from: Coinfan on August 24, 2014, 07:14:19 PM

It's human nature: people always try to explain their loses on some kind of conspiracy or scam.

But bearish trends do exist naturally, even in bitcoin. Many of those dumpers were people about to be liquidated on Bitfinex and Btc-e because of margin long positions and that needed to unload.

I would disagree with this. I think people will claim manipulation because a market is unregulated. For example few people were claiming that the market was being manipulated when the stock market crashed in 2008/2009. At least they were not saying it was being manipulated to be falling, the government was openly trying to manipulate it so it would not fall as much or would recover, however the point remains.

I think the conspiracy theories derive from the fact that bitcoin exchanges and the overall bitcoin economy is barely regulated. Most markets are much more heavily regulated then the bitcoin market is. IMO these conspiracy theorists are essentially begging for Bitcoin to be more regulated, but also kicking and screaming when the government tries to implement even small amounts of regulation.

Coinfan

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It's human nature: people always try to explain their loses on some kind of conspiracy or scam.

But bearish trends do exist naturally, even in bitcoin. Many of those dumpers were people about to be liquidated on Bitfinex and Btc-e because of margin long positions and that needed to unload.

They are no conspirator or scammers, they are just people that lost their shirts because of wrong trades.

Shore, people do try to manipulate the market, but that doesn't mean they are successful on their attempts. Or that they can move even the chinese exchanges that are the ones leading the decline.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: zymafluo on August 24, 2014, 01:11:38 PM

Maybe now the same whales who tried to crash the price are buying back and rising the value.

Quote from: thehappybtc on August 24, 2014, 12:00:33 PM

Probably a whale or some rich people together trying to keep the price low to buy cheap coins before the big jump.

You believe that somebody drove the price down, by selling at around $310 (on BTC-e) in the flash crash, and that they are now trying to profit from buying it back at $500.

Please explain to me how that is supposed to work.

Ayers

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it was said that ethereum was the cause, it could be possible seeing how it is just a small crush, now we are at the end of the week, the price will recover in the next week presumably

zymafluo

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Maybe now the same whales who tried to crash the price are buying back and rising the value.

thehappybtc

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Probably a whale or some rich people together trying to keep the price low to buy cheap coins before the big jump.

giveBTCpls

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There are too many variables to try to render a single cause for a crash. It would be like trying to predict weather with 100% acuracy. Just not gonna happen. Too many factors.

itsAj

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Quote from: C64_4EVA on August 20, 2014, 08:53:11 AM

Clearly margin traders were behind the crash (exchanges that do not offer margin trading did not drop nearly as low). I expect many more of these flash crashes (as well as flash rallys) to come as more and more people start trading with leverage.

The crash was after a big run up in the amount of leverage being used. It was also shortly after bitfinex changed the way that interest is paid, creating additional selling pressure that was "unexpected" by the market. I don't think there will ever be enough interest in short selling bitcoin in order to cause a short squeeze.

Starcade

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I haven't been able to add funds to cex.io for two days already. The browser keeps timing out. And they've been doing maintenance for two days also. I want to buy GH's while it's low...but cannot. This is manipulation. Also on another note. Because of this problem I signed up for Terminal.com using BTC so that I could mine with a cloud server. Well... I tryed to sign up with a username of my own and my own email but an error MSG popped up saying I didn't have 'credentials'. Well... I had to sign up using the other option, which was using my google+ account. Do you think google has it's hand in the cookie jar? I believe so. (terminal.com didn't credit me for the 0.020 btc that I paid. All I got was the free $5. Lol.)

iluvpie60

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Short selling and long term selling and flash selling and whatever are all allowed. Everyone says bitcoin trustless for the protocol and they are right, the exchanges are not trustless, you have to trust t hem if you want to trade there, a consequence of centralization is price manipulation, exchanges centralize buying and selling power unfortunately.

C64_4EVA

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Clearly margin traders were behind the crash (exchanges that do not offer margin trading did not drop nearly as low). I expect many more of these flash crashes (as well as flash rallys) to come as more and more people start trading with leverage.

ticoti

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I think that behind this is an organised whales group that wanted to buy cheap before winter coming alcist rally
this is not caused by the mistake of a whale

ed_teech

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Jahaha

Isn't it because bitcoin demand has decreased ? Why a conspiracy should even exist ?

Take a look at the BSI:

http://www.coindesk.com/sentiment-index/

DavidHume

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Maybe it is btc-e trying to force a margin call on their over leveraged traders.

The could have dump enough to cause the traders to sell at worst possible price with them buying it all up at that price.

sandykho47

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Knowledge its everything

Someone crazy sold lot BTC & buy it again Grin

But BTC-E price is more crazier Cheesy

Maybe some bot do it Huh

But some people who very luck is bought when the price is very low

EricTyle

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Quote from: Kluge on August 18, 2014, 11:24:20 PM

Most likely, this is Satoshi. We have turned our backs on His ideals and now He is punishing us. If we do not correct and turn to the way of Our Lord, He will shake hands so harshly, only the purist of Idealoshis will stay in.

For a second there, I thought that you were being for real. Then I looked at your Avatar, and that was my face.

dexX7

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Just as a remainder.. BTC-E had worse moments.. Wink

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-10/bitcoin-flash-crashes-drops-80-seconds

ticoti

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I think this is not a misclick
this has been an intention sell of whales to fill their pockets with cheap bitcoins

master-P

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Quote from: odolvlobo on August 19, 2014, 02:38:15 PM

Quote from: GangkisKhan on August 19, 2014, 12:21:27 AM

It went down to around 310 on btc-e when someone dump a lot of coin. So, it is not just bitstamp and bitfinex.
Someone who has controlled of a lot of bitcoin is dumping them everyday.

Here is a question for the conspiracy-theorists:

Ok, you believe that some big whale dumped coins on the market in order to drive the price down so they could buy them back cheaply. Well, this big whale sold bitcoins for as low as $310. What price did they buy them back at?

They would not necessarily want to buy the BTC back. Generally speaking when someone sells that large of a position they are doing so to cash out and does not want to try to get back into the market. I do however doubt that the crash was caused by a whale. I think it would be more likely that margin requirements were changed on btc-e.

Ektra

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Quote from: odolvlobo on August 19, 2014, 02:38:15 PM

Quote from: GangkisKhan on August 19, 2014, 12:21:27 AM

It went down to around 310 on btc-e when someone dump a lot of coin. So, it is not just bitstamp and bitfinex.
Someone who has controlled of a lot of bitcoin is dumping them everyday.

Here is a question for the conspiracy-theorists:

Ok, you believe that some big whale dumped coins on the market in order to drive the price down so they could buy them back cheaply. Well, this big whale sold bitcoins for as low as $310. What price did they buy them back at?

A good point. Which raises the question of why someone was so intent on selling so many bitcoins that quickly and damn the price. It seems like either a complete cash-out by someone (maybe a panic sell from some foolish new whales who went all in at higher prices), or an attempt to strike a blow against the market.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: GangkisKhan on August 19, 2014, 12:21:27 AM

It went down to around 310 on btc-e when someone dump a lot of coin. So, it is not just bitstamp and bitfinex.
Someone who has controlled of a lot of bitcoin is dumping them everyday.

Here is a question for the conspiracy-theorists:

Ok, you believe that some big whale dumped coins on the market in order to drive the price down so they could buy them back cheaply. Well, this big whale sold bitcoins for as low as $310. What price did they buy them back at?

CryptInvest

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In my opinion flash crash create exchanges for more profits with margin call. In particular btc-e caught the other day on these frauds.

TheClownSong

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Quote from: Kluge on August 18, 2014, 11:24:20 PM

Most likely, this is Satoshi. We have turned our backs on His ideals and now He is punishing us. If we do not correct and turn to the way of Our Lord, He will shake hands so harshly, only the purist of Idealoshis will stay in.

I seriously doubt that satoshi was selling, as this certainly would have made the news (people would see that his BTC that it is known that he mined were moving.

I agree as posted above that it was likely due to margin calls.

Rakitich

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Yep forgot it's middle of summer, action will come back after summer.

Ayers

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ethereum/vacation/scammers/ even those campaign are contributing to the btc fall, i'm a holder but many are not they just want btc to dump for fiat

Rakitich

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Some say it had to do with the Ethereum IPO.

spazzdla

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I still maintain it's someone attempting to buy up a ton of coins before they pump it back up..

IMO they are testing their control over the market.

bounst

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watch and analytic the web logs in order to know

DavidHume

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Quote from: Kluge on August 18, 2014, 11:24:20 PM

Most likely, this is Satoshi. We have turned our backs on His ideals and now He is punishing us. If we do not correct and turn to the way of Our Lord, He will shake hands so harshly, only the purist of Idealoshis will stay in.

Is his wallet a public record? Just need to look it up and see if there is any coin movement.

wasserman99

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Quote from: Kluge on August 18, 2014, 11:24:20 PM

Most likely, this is Satoshi. We have turned our backs on His ideals and now He is punishing us. If we do not correct and turn to the way of Our Lord, He will shake hands so harshly, only the purist of Idealoshis will stay in.

HAHA.

This is probably not true, but it is probably very funny.

The real reason behind the flash crash on BTC-e was likely, IMO because of a change in margin requirements that caused many accounts to trigger automatic selling due to these increased requirements. I am not saying that it is not a good idea to make margin requirements more strict as the price has been declining heavily recently and this will reduce risk to the exchange and thus their other customers.

GangkisKhan

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Quote from: nelruk on August 18, 2014, 11:20:47 PM

Almost everybody read about the agressive position of some users in Bitstamp and Bitfinex making BTC fall down almost 150 USD in lees than two weeks. There is no doubt in my mind someone is speculating with short selling in several excahnges. But having no other information I'm asking who would that be? Who is the group/institution/investment center capable to do such thing? Do you think in somebody?

It went down to around 310 on btc-e when someone dump a lot of coin. So, it is not just bitstamp and bitfinex.

Someone who has controlled of a lot of bitcoin is dumping them everyday.

nelruk

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Bitcoin is revolution

Quote from: Kluge on August 18, 2014, 11:24:20 PM

Most likely, this is Satoshi. We have turned our backs on His ideals and now He is punishing us. If we do not correct and turn to the way of Our Lord, He will shake hands so harshly, only the purist of Idealoshis will stay in.

The sarcasm is strong with you sir Cheesy

(or you're not?)

But behind the sarcasm, you're quite right. I read in Coindesk that Bitfinex may be speculating with their new filter of order.

Kluge

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Most likely, this is Satoshi. We have turned our backs on His ideals and now He is punishing us. If we do not correct and turn to the way of Our Lord, He will shake hands so harshly, only the purist of Idealoshis will stay in.

nelruk

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Bitcoin is revolution

Almost everybody read about the agressive position of some users in Bitstamp and Bitfinex making BTC fall down almost 150 USD in lees than two weeks. There is no doubt in my mind someone is speculating with short selling in several excahnges. But having no other information I'm asking who would that be? Who is the group/institution/investment center capable to do such thing? Do you think in somebody?

Topic: Who is behind the flash crash? (Read 2908 times)