Topic: Who is losing? Finland joins NATO. (Read 370 times)

Yeah, once again, that's not how it goes. We have to use 2% of GDP for our defence budget. So maybe worry about happiness of your own citizens. We are doing just fine in here, so set up as many sanctions as you wish.

We have prepared our security of supply in finland since the winter war and just opened another nuclear power plant so you can keep your gas too.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/17/finland-has-civil-shelters-capable-of-withstanding-a-nuclear-attack.html

Every action has consequences. Finland's accession to NATO is no exception. I think the Finns will soon realize that a significant part of their wealth was based on the neutral status of their country, which made Finland a good intermediary between Russia and Western Europe and served as a source of significant preferences from Russia. Now the preferences are over, and instead of comfortable, well-fed neutrality, Finland finds itself at the forefront of a sharp ideological confrontation, where the need to pay NATO membership fees of 2% of GDP and build a border wall is the least source of their potential discomfort. Probably soon Finland will lose the status of the happiest country in the world, because it is difficult to be happy being between a rock and a hard place.

Any country can join whatever alliance it wants. IMO countries should make a clear stance and draw the line where it should be drawn - at invasion and murder.


You call that invasion and people being murdered and buried in mass graves "an incident"? That's an euphemism to say the least.

As if the Ukraine incident wasn't a big enough headache. And now another thing is about to muddle the waters even further. I don't even care about their reasons anymore, there's just no reason good enough to justify this madness. I just wish leaders would be more mindful about the majority of the people that'd be affected by their decisions rather than focusing on their EGOs or deluded principles. Such scary times, sigh.

Unsorted garbage is now being transported to Finland to replace the supply of Russian raw materials for energy companies.

They have one life and they don't want to give it to an autocrat who wants to play real war.


Here is situation looks a bit complicated, in some biased theories, we have a good relationship with Russia, although, in reality, it is not even close to that. Also, we are not in Nato and we will probably never join. All the similar ideas you mention are in the domain of a few fanatics who drunkenly talk about it. Everyone who has felt at least a little comfortable with life only thinks about how to improve it even more. Mass weaponized and similar ideas are only part of the keyboard-warrior-group discussion.

Actually Russia started the war by attacking Ukraine.

I can imagine that among other things one of the main reasons for russians fleeing would be to avoid the draft. Which i can totally understand. When the cause is made up and their dictator is insane, and you would have to fight with an ancient gear without decent leadership, your life means nothing and you are probably dying for nothing, i imagine that i would flee as well.

But just out of interest because of such high numbers. Are you part of nato and if not, what do you think of the idea of weaponized of mass migration and has your country prepared to that?

There are different ways to fight a war. In any large city in the world, there are various companies selling the same kinds of products. They are all at 'war' with each other, even if they do not go out and militarily attack each other.

Russia broke up the USSR back in 1991, with the expectation that the US would abide by agreements to not expand Nato. But the US has expressly said that they want to take over Russia, and break Russia into a bunch of little States. They have proved it by expanding Nato, and by supplying Ukraine with armaments and money.

So, who is the warmongering country? Russia who is only protecting her borders and her people from US backed aggression? Or the US that has stated that they want to take over Russia, and are proving it by advancing Nato... a thing that they expressly stated they would not do.

There are many ways to fight a war. But it seems that Russia isn't doing nearly as much warring as the US.

Didn't you express somewhere in a post that you were a Finn or from Finland or something like that? I wasn't really expecting it, but you are sounding exactly like the kind of people I was describing in my previous post that you quoted, sort of.

Sounds like i hit some weird nerve as what you are telling us is batshit insane. Like you would avoid googling at all costs when you can make up stories from a fantasyland?

I give you a hint: you were wrong on everything, to the point i got worried for your mental health. Btw you might benefit from free mental healthcare as well as you sadly sound very much paranoid and detached from reality.

So maybe you should listen more your relatives as i am assuming they have offered already as they care for you. So if you can afford the help, accept it. And if not, maybe go and do fundme or something. Remember to show your posts to your doctor and ask if it was me who is out of their mind.

Lol. I am laughing way beyond lol.

In Finland you have free healthcare. In other words you go to the doctor or hospital, and some slaves fix your health... because it is free, and they work for nothing, right? Lol.

In Finland teachers are really skinny, because they work for free, and haven't had anything to eat in ages, because working free they don't get any money for food, right?

In Finland you have free speech, because you just sit there and the speech simply bubbles out of you without you having to think or activate you voice, right?

In Finland there is free, clean water, because all you have to do is the work that it takes to go out and lick an iceberg. Oops! It isn't free. You have to work at licking, right?

In Finland you get dozens or hundreds of free other things, because everybody works for free, to give you what you want for free, right?

Oh, I forgot. Everybody gets paid for free because government pays them, right? So, they can work for free, so that they can pay taxes to government so that government can pay them so that they can work for free, and so that government people can get a healthy check, themselves, for sitting around and directing the tax and benefactor activities, right? Lol.

But mostly, in Finland, stupidity is free... probably from the drugs (fluoride) government sticks in the water... that Hitler's people trained them to do when they found that fluoride dumbed people down.

Okay. Now, let's build a 1300km fence to keep the Russians out. Did you ever hear of anything so silly?

Finns have been dumbed down so much that they can barely feel anything. They live dumbed-down lives and feel simply wonderful about it. And government laughs all the way to the bank with Finnish labor, because the people thought they got everything free. Lol.

Cheap vodka?

Encroachment is when one party crosses the boundary of someone else's property.

Nobody is encroaching on Russia.  The last ones to do that were the Germans. Nobody wants to encroach on Russia.  They have lots of nukes. 

Russia is encroaching on Ukraine. 

Oh, don't be naive. believe me, the only ones who want to leave the country so they don't end up as soldiers are the Russians. For example, just last year, about 170,000 (data from January '23, now it is certainly much more) Russian citizens immigrated to my country. It's like a smaller city, and it's mostly young and financially independent from the home country.

If you only knew how stupid and childish that sounds and how ridiculous your sources are. In Finland we have a free healthcare, free education, free speech, clean water, free government pension and ton of other things you can just google. And Finland is one of the least corrupt countries in the world. Why would Finnish people want to leave? So maybe you don't know anything.

This may later escalate into a full term war if things continue like this. I don't even see a reason why Finland would join NATO which may not be a good decision for them. Russia may want to attack Finland for them joining NATO which is serving as a security breach to the Russian federation. Ukraine is suffering this now and I hope things are going to end soon.

You jokers are so funny. So is Finland. Lol. All they are doing is trying to keep the Finns inside. If Ukraine had done this, they would have kept millions from fleeing, and they would have had a whole lot more people to join their military, and more people to manufacture arms to fight Russia.

Nato is done for.


Finland Unveils 1st Section Of Russian Border Fence After Joining NATO

---

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/finland-unveils-1st-section-russian-border-fence-after-joining-nato
The nearly half-billion dollar fence is expected to be completed by 2026, and is topped with barbed wire and has a height of three meters (or nearly 10-feet tall).

"We started work on the site about a month ago. We have built a road and foundations," a representative of the construction company GRK told the AFP.

According to more from AFP: "About 70% of the fence will be erected on the southeast, with several smaller sections planned for central Finland and the largely uninhabited Arctic border in Lapland."
...

---

Nah, just tales from BADecker land again. No justification,  just blurting fact-less statements to justify allowing the expansion of the RF by means of war.

Countries are perfectly right to defend themselves and they are watching how Putin's government went to an unnecessary war in 2014, then now to grab more land and obviously they are thinking "I could be next". Now, BADecker takes the "fly" answer, Finland takes the "stand" attitude.

Why is better the "stand" attitude? Because there is nowhere to "fly" to. Finland has a long border with an expansionist and aggressive neighbour. I am sure they would rather be somewhere else, but things are how they are.

Now, what is safer for Finland, be out of NATO and risk being the next Ukraine or be under the Article 5 umbrella? The answer could not be more simple.

I would agree that it is probably much more difficult for the people of a smaller country like Finland to be overcome by the leaders and media of your country, but your own fear of the Stalin years and their possible return might cloud your judgment.

More than anything, Russia is fighting encroachment by the US and Nato. You remember that Russia dropped the USSR 'act' decades ago. But they did it for peace, not for the US providing continual encroachment to break them up... as the US is attempting to do through NATO and Ukraine.

The Ukraine problem is about the US becoming active through Ukraine, killing Russians and Ukrainians, like Stalin did many of his own people. US in Ukraine was is essentially Stalin in the body of Zelensky. That is why Russia invaded, and to stop the advancement and encroachment of the US on Russia through Nato.

Maybe Finland has some big armament hidden away there, but joining Nato just as Ukraine was trying to do, is really asking for it... even if you don't do a single thing for the next 100 years to advance against Russia.

It's not like Finland was simply acting for better trade relations with the US and Nato countries. It's like teasing a bear who is already slapping at an enemy, and arming up for major war. Finland stupidity.

Your thoughts that we would be manipulated by our "leaders" is insane and from playbook of Kremlin propaganda. But sounds like you don't know how wars work either. There might be a "cold war", that's debatable but if nato actually joined in to actual war, oh boy you would know. And you are right that no one of us want the war, but most of us want to support Ukraine by arming them and supporting otherwise. If russia wants to start actual war because of it.

Russia withdrawing their forces and paying for their war crimes would be so much easier.

How in the world dense are you? That you would think that the US and Nato are not at war with Russia. Look at all the money and armament that the US and Nato sent to Ukraine to fight Russia. World media is showing all about this. And you think that the US and Nato aren't fighting Russia? Lol.

Finland into Nato is a show, just to make people like you think that Russia is losing, so you and others like you keep on supplying your governments with money to send to Ukraine. Average people of Finland and other Nato countries don't want a war with Russia. But they are getting it because the leaders are warmongers.

Finland I think is not hostile to Russia, they don't have people in the borders wishing to be part of Russia as well. Ukrainians in the Donbas was wishing to be part of Russia which in that region was all Ukraine separatists wanting to be independent.

but i think Sanna Marin won in Finland despite her ridiculous party dance because she is also supported by Nato. it only needs an intelligence report to find out what is going on in Finland before Russia takes action.

They are doing all they can already and still russia is losing men left and right. Putin has a cancer special medical operation and Putin's Russia is near total collapse. Everyone with a brain and means to do it has already fleed the country. And if by "getting serious" you mean Russia nuking Ukraine, china wouldn't side with Russia after that. No one would. Well North Korea might but when your only friends are North Korea you might have F*cked up.

Nato is literally gaining more ground and isn't at war with russia so how is it losing exactly? And for sure, Finland could have probably defended ourselves as well, as we have done it in the past but as Russia haven't attacked on nato countries, why wait for them to attack.

Finland is in because Nato is losing, and needs all the help they can get.

Both NATO and the Russian have no limit to where they can expand to. The people will choose base on their own interests.
NATO is also not forcing any country to join them, but countries with lesser military and political powers are the ones going under the Umbrella of NATO for collaboration and protection.

Russian did not go into the War because they believe it will be short. They went into war because they believe they will win without any long resistance, assuming it went as planned for them, they would have probably been on the next neighboring countries right now.

If I recall correctly from my high school history lessons, the NATO was founded to counter the influence of the Soviet Union, her allies and satellite countries that were part of the Warsaw pact. The Warsaw pact was a socialist/communist version of the NATO, so the table was served for the cold war.

In the end, the Warsaw path ended up collapsing and NATO prevailed. One must wonder what would have happened if the West decided to disband NATO after the cold war, nonetheless we could argue they were visionary enough to stay together in the case of the establishment of authoritarian regimes in China and Russia, which ended up becoming a reality.

Still, it is interesting to see people from USA and Europe verbally defend Russia, knowing that any Russian doing the same in their motherland would be imprisoned.

There is no international law that limits Nato from spreading and there is none that stops Russia from also expanding its influence through trade and diplomacy with other countries. Currently, Russia has gotten and still seeking new partnerships. We have recently seen the strengthening of BRICS which includes industrialized nations like Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa.
Both Russia and NATO should allow nations to freely choose their association or partner without restrictions. Let America be also willing not to stop any of its neighbors from having military and political alliances with Russia.

It was not America that advised Russia to go to war, therefore you cannot blame the US for the war. Russia would have sought other means to reconcile her difference with the nation's neighbor. War was a political and military blunder because Russia thought the war will be short. There are some external influences from wars that are uncontrollable. Both Russia and NATO should drop their pride and accept that they wished that this war didn't happen. Both parties and the world is still suffering from the effect of this war.

People take for granted that the main reason behind NATO existing is Stalin and the main reason for NATO expanding is Putin.

It literally exists to discourage crazy Russian leaders from running around invading countries and being assholes.

If Putin doesn't invade Ukraine, Finland doesn't join NATO.  



I wonder if Putin realizes how many loyal Trumptards are rooting for him and eating up the Kremlin "Russia is the victim" nonsense.

Is it because Trump only says nice things about him, or because he got Trump elected in 2016?  

Or is it because you're rooting against the US because you would happily accept your country losing if it meant you got to watch Biden lose.

Scary times. It seems like NATO is going out of their way to provoke Russia. It seems like they almost want a world war with Russia and China before they become more powerful foes. I just hope we’re able to see peace soon and get back to building instead of trying to tear down everyone and destroy everything.

Has Finland been actively fighting with Russia and killing Russians for years like Ukraine has? Russia was attempting to trade freely with other countries. But the US didn't like this, and started using Ukraine long ago to try to stop Russian free trade. Russia's invasion of Ukraine was only a defensive measure against the US, who was using Ukraine.

At this point, since there is much conflict already, and Russia has given Nato ultimatums that Nato is disregarding, why should Russia make more threats against Nato? When the time comes, Russia will have to get serious about war... and do it... against all of Europe and the US. And it seems like China and some other countries will side with Russia.

Russia doesn't want war. Russia wants free trade among nations. It's the US that is trying to conquer Russia and break her apart. They have said that they are trying to do this, and now they are showing it by supplying Ukraine militarily.

All countries talk. We see it in the news. The thing we don't see is the thing they are keeping private. We can't take media talk at face value. There are as many lies in the media as there are in the US and Nato, like their breaking of the Minsk agreements.

Finland joining Nato means nothing. It might even backfire on Nato since there are many Finns who are somewhat in favor of Russia. How do we know? There has been relative peace along the border of Finland and Russia for years or decades.

People take for granted that the main reason behind the invasion of Ukraine is the presence of NATO in eastern Europe, but I also think there are other motives, like the support and backing Putin wished to give the pro-separatist groups in Ukraine and at the same time take over valuable coast line by the black sea.

There is no wonder that Russia does not want NATO to grow, so this was indeed a backlash to his plans. Keeping in mind Trump was critical of NATO and the role of the USA in it, one must wonder how convenient would be for the Kremlin if Trump got his second term.

One of the reasons Russia gave for invading Ukraine was that they want to stop the expansion of NATO along the Russian border. But today Finland which shares about 1,340km borderline with Russia has formally joined NATO. Kremlin feels that the acceptance of Finland into NATO is against the security and national interest of Russia. And in a few months, Sweden might be the next member of NATO which will indeed be a blow to the aspiration of Russia to push NATO far from its borders.

Do you think Russia made the right decision to attack Ukraine because it wants to protect its borders?


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65173043