Who will fund BTC price above $1200+ ????

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

Quote from: cp1 on December 16, 2013, 02:48:16 PM

Is there an advantage to being an accredited investor besides being able to invest in a hedge fund? It's not like you'd want to buy direct shares of a company if you didn't have a lot of money to be able to diversify that way.

Why not?
I just think people should be allowed to decide how to invest/waste their own money and that they are responsible for the outcome.

cp1

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Stop using branwallets

Is there an advantage to being an accredited investor besides being able to invest in a hedge fund? It's not like you'd want to buy direct shares of a company if you didn't have a lot of money to be able to diversify that way.

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

Quote from: GriTBitS on December 15, 2013, 02:01:10 PM

Don't worry about the little guy, he won't buy in until after 10k anyway! When he realizes he could have paid the house off if he would have just bought 10 bitcoins at 1k. Then he will dump his whole 401k into it! Realized losses are the worst losses! Why do you think its so hard to even buy bitcoin? If it is to succeed, The big dogs can't be having all these rich little dogs fucking with their status quo, trying to be members that their establishments and clubs. The same reason why you need 25k to be an accredited investor or 6m+ in account holdings to be offered pre IPO stock. They don't want you in the club! So stay strong and Hold on tight!

You bring up a little discussed but important aspect of bitcoin. Anyone can compete with the big banks using bitcoin. All other investments have long ago been gamed by big players. As you mention, the criteria for being an "accredited" investor is insulting and shameless. You just have to be rich, that's all. You need to have a net worth of over 1 million and make $200k+ per year.
The stated reason for this is that the "little man" simply is not smart enough to handle investing and must be helped to invest by banks. Whereas a rich person is obviously naturally intelligent. It sounds like satire, but this is the reason why you poor people are not allowed to invest for yourself.

Bitcoin destroys this and allows anyone to enter the market at the level they can afford.

DPoS

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I just posted on another thread, but the same applies here. no one wants to see mBTC, they want catchy names... something like:

Quote from: DPoS on December 16, 2013, 12:35:30 AM

problem is it goes from 'a bitcoin' to 'a satoshi' without any catchy marketing names inbetween..

how about Nixons @ .01? Tongue

Clintons @ .1 ?

or some international things? like Jabba's @ .001?

people can then start to equate $100 for a Jabba or whatever

and remember this isn't about what geeks want. It's about those other people with money that you want...

we already hit peak geek

e521

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I don't see anything wrong to use mBTC instead of BTC, it's practical, nobody likes to use fractions.

You can think about this from a different angle: inflation vs deflation

Some time ago the UK govt talked about withdraw 1 penny coins from circulation (I think Canada already did?)
You can't really buy anything with a penny, so why keep using it?

With bitcoin is the opposite, because the unit gains value over time due to it's nature (deflation)

exstasie

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If i had some disposable cash then I would! Unfortunately my funds are little dry right now. Need to advertise for my bitcoins!

imamanandyou

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The price above $1200+ will fund those wanting send money quickly to different country, or transfer your wealth when you move to different country. Without Bitcoin, it is hard and expensive

GriTBitS

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“A decentralized registry for unique assets”

Don't worry about the little guy, he won't buy in until after 10k anyway! When he realizes he could have paid the house off if he would have just bought 10 bitcoins at 1k. Then he will dump his whole 401k into it! Realized losses are the worst losses! Why do you think its so hard to even buy bitcoin? If it is to succeed, The big dogs can't be having all these rich little dogs fucking with their status quo, trying to be members that their establishments and clubs. The same reason why you need 25k to be an accredited investor or 6m+ in account holdings to be offered pre IPO stock. They don't want you in the club! So stay strong and Hold on tight!

Harley997

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not me. i'm already tapped out, guys.

Voodah

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With all the mBTC discussion, I don't see this posted or mentioned often. Don't know why.

Quote from: satoshi on February 06, 2010, 06:25:53 PM

Eventually at most only 21 million coins for 6.8 billion people in the world if it really gets huge.

But don't worry, there are another 6 decimal places that aren't shown, for a total of 8 decimal places internally. It shows 1.00 but internally it's 1.00000000. If there's massive deflation in the future, the software could show more decimal places.

If it gets tiresome working with small numbers, we could change where the display shows the decimal point. Same amount of money, just different convention for where the ","'s and "."'s go. e.g. moving the decimal place 3 places would mean if you had 1.00000 before, now it shows it as 1,000.00.

udet4food

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Quote from: wormbog on December 13, 2013, 12:11:13 PM

Why do people automatically think a bitcoin is not divisible? Because real coins aren't divisible. And most investment assets aren't divisible. Go try to buy a half share of Microsoft, or a half of a gold coin.

Most of the media publicity is reinforcing this belief. Most of the news articles you read about bitcoin have a big picture of fingers holding a physical bitcoin, or a big pile of physical bitcoins. And you can't blame them - there's no way to take a picture of a "real" bitcoin. It's just a string of numbers.

A casual investor sees bitcoin in the headlines all over the place. They've seen pictures of physical bitcoins. They've heard people talking about the incredible growth and how bitcoin will be as transformative as the internet itself. They want to invest before it's too late! But then they read a bitcoin costs $900, and ask themselves, "Do I have an extra 900 bucks lying around right now?" If not, they won't buy. It's not because they're stupid. It's because the name "bitcoin" and images in the media of physical bitcoins create a false impression of what a bitcoin really is.

Maybe it is better, these people would be weak hands anyway. Bitcoin need users who understad why they need the Bitcoin, not just speculative hordes

wormbog

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Why do people automatically think a bitcoin is not divisible? Because real coins aren't divisible. And most investment assets aren't divisible. Go try to buy a half share of Microsoft, or a half of a gold coin.

Most of the media publicity is reinforcing this belief. Most of the news articles you read about bitcoin have a big picture of fingers holding a physical bitcoin, or a big pile of physical bitcoins. And you can't blame them - there's no way to take a picture of a "real" bitcoin. It's just a string of numbers.

A casual investor sees bitcoin in the headlines all over the place. They've seen pictures of physical bitcoins. They've heard people talking about the incredible growth and how bitcoin will be as transformative as the internet itself. They want to invest before it's too late! But then they read a bitcoin costs $900, and ask themselves, "Do I have an extra 900 bucks lying around right now?" If not, they won't buy. It's not because they're stupid. It's because the name "bitcoin" and images in the media of physical bitcoins create a false impression of what a bitcoin really is.

BurtW

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All paid signature campaigns should be banned.

Quote from: t3xasdolly on December 13, 2013, 11:48:05 AM

We are doomed

How about we simply tell people that they can buy part of a Bitcoin. Too simple?

t3xasdolly

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Quote from: superresistant on December 13, 2013, 04:40:09 AM

Just a question guys, if everyone here understand the problem and agree to change to mBTC then what do we do now ?

We are doomed, Bitcoin should be used with Satoshi units from the start. Now you have teach media and newcommers Bitcoin is just currency name and its units are Satoshi

BurtW

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All paid signature campaigns should be banned.

I LOVE nBTC!!!

I am a nBTC trillionaire!

Wilhelm

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Quote from: HigsonPP on December 12, 2013, 03:07:46 PM

i think the mbtc camp's argument is super weak. i get it, down to the satoshi

+1

A million satoshi feels much better than 0.01 BTC Cheesy

Mirsad

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Bitcoin - love & hate

Sounds like the usual pennystock talk Grin

BurtW

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All paid signature campaigns should be banned.

Like this:

"Have you heard of this cool new currency/asset called nanoBitcoins? The smallest amount you can buy is 10 nBTC. Right now you can buy one billion nBTC for less than $1000 !! If that is out of your price range then you can buy one million nBTC for less than one dollar.

Get one million nBTC for about 87 cents! You can be in on the "ground floor" and get them while they are cheap.

Let's say your one million nBTC that you bought for only $0.87 goes up to $1.70 - why then you would more than double your money!

Note that the highest price ever for one million nBTC so far was only about $1.20 - but I expect them to go much higher than that !!!

After all $1.20 is such a small amount of dollars, right?

piramida

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Borsche

Quote from: superresistant on December 13, 2013, 04:40:09 AM

Just a question guys, if everyone here understand the problem and agree to change to mBTC then what do we do now ?

easy. use mBTC. there is no governing body for bitcoins besides us, so the units that people use - is what is actually used. If you use mBTC in your daily communications, then you are helping to set the new standard.

kidbitter

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BTC or mBTC it does not matter. In the end it is the technology and what people use it for that will make or break bitcoin. This stupid mBTC discussion will just have a small short term impact, in the long run does not matter.

exocytosis

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Quote from: Siegfried on December 13, 2013, 04:32:21 AM

Quote from: exocytosis on December 13, 2013, 01:13:53 AM

Widespread adoption of BTC can't be achieved unless we (and the major BTC exchanges) start denominating BTC value in mBTC (or nBTC or satoshi's, etc.). The average Joe won't buy anything with a lot of zeroes in the decimal places. Most people (who've heard of Bitcoin) probably don't even know they can buy less than one coin.
We have to cater to the common human psychology.

The average Joe will realize that the "m" in mBTC means that it is not a full bitcoin just as easily as he knows a millimeter (mm) is not a full meter.

To answer this, let me quote an earlier post in this thread:

Quote

One thing I've noticed about myself is that I'm more cautious with my Litecoins than with my Bitcoins -- I think it's because 5 LTC feels like a lot but 0.18 BTC doesn't really (maybe a benefit for Bitcoin in certain industries [eg. gambling?]). There's something unsettling for me about me not having at least half a bitcoin. I couldn't imagine myself being content with 0.0025BTC but 25 mBTC doesn't sound too bad at all.

But I do agree that mBTC is probably not an ideal name for 1/1000 BTC. Personally, I like the name satoshi (for the smallest unit), and might try to use this term more from now on (when talking to non-bitcoiners).

Logik

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Realistically it only matters what the major exchanges do. Their reasons and motivations for making such changes are more complex than any one person's opinions.

There is nothing to really to do. It's somewhat akin to fashion. If everyone shares the same sentiment about the units then eventually the exchanges would reflect that.

Siegfried

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Quote from: Logik on December 13, 2013, 04:39:50 AM

Is anybody disagreeing with mBTC being a better theoretical choice? This thread is turning into a circle jerk!

Yes, I am.

superresistant

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Just a question guys, if everyone here understand the problem and agree to change to mBTC then what do we do now ?

Logik

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Is anybody disagreeing with mBTC being a better theoretical choice? This thread is turning into a circle jerk!

Siegfried

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Quote from: exocytosis on December 13, 2013, 01:13:53 AM

Widespread adoption of BTC can't be achieved unless we (and the major BTC exchanges) start denominating BTC value in mBTC (or nBTC or satoshi's, etc.). The average Joe won't buy anything with a lot of zeroes in the decimal places. Most people (who've heard of Bitcoin) probably don't even know they can buy less than one coin.
We have to cater to the common human psychology.

The average Joe will realize that the "m" in mBTC means that it is not a full bitcoin just as easily as he knows a millimeter (mm) is not a full meter.

Pente

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Let's just go straight to satoshis, then we won't have to have these debates about the default size and names for units for at least another decade.

BurtW

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All paid signature campaigns should be banned.

The silly thing about all these dozens and dozens of threads about this very same subject is that nothing is stopping you from doing exactly what you want to do!

If you feel that your needs are met by always talking in terms of mBTC then just do it. You do not need my approval, you don't need anyone's approval. If it catches on it catches on.

If you like satoshis better then use them.

If you like nBTC - my suggestion - they use them.

Why all the threads? There is no need. Plus, they do not accomplish anything. The market will eventually decide this.

Another bunch of theads that are pointless are the "what should we call them?" threads. "Mics", "Micros", "Millis", "Bits", "Unis" (I know, WTF?), etc. These threads always come across as someone trying to think of a cool nickname for themselves. Nicknames are not forced on the public. The public comes up with them and/or accepts them like "bucks", "greenbacks" etc.

The point is: just start using the units and nicknames that you like best and see what happens. If people like the idea they will follow suit.

BTW check this out:

http://bitcoinity.org/markets

mBTC. They just did it. No hand wringing thread. I kind of like it. There.

Logik

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I'll try to be 'good guy forum poster' and actually bring this thread back on topic.

I earn a salary from writing software that's significantly more than I need. I believe strongly in the future of Bitcoin. My strategy for the future involves using a small part of my leftover salary to turn into BTC every month. I will buy at $1200, at $1400, at $2000 and so on. I don't give two shits about intraday or intra-month price movements in this context. I just buy and hold. I haven't time to day trade BTC so it's not of much concern to me if the price dips a little. Bears who say the Bitcoin price is going to "crash and burn" to double digits are just emotional..

In addition, there's a huge amount of institutional money still to come into the market. They aren't anchored to ~$30 or so like we are, so $1200 means nothing to them.

exocytosis

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Widespread adoption of BTC can't be achieved unless we (and the major BTC exchanges) start denominating BTC value in mBTC (or nBTC or satoshi's, etc.). The average Joe won't buy anything with a lot of zeroes in the decimal places. Most people (who've heard of Bitcoin) probably don't even know they can buy less than one coin.
We have to cater to the common human psychology.

exocytosis

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Quote from: windjc on December 12, 2013, 03:16:24 PM

It's very obvious that many on this forum do not understand basic human psychology. mBTC is the obvious choice. People are SIMPLE creatures. The idea of cheaper is always better. And humans hate decimals. The more decimals the more they will avoid. You think the average human wants to calculate .00000... Of something you just don't get it.

People want ease of use, ease of understanding and simplicity.

This.

BittBurger

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Quote from: BurtW on December 12, 2013, 01:56:23 PM

Question: why do we need dozens and dozens of threads about the same damn subject?

Next time, instead of starting yet another thread about changing the units, just add your comments to the end of one of the other threads.

Wrong.

The real question is, why hasn't a single person answered the question in the original post yet?

This thread is not on the same subject.

This thread is not about changing to mBTC per se ....

Its my question on whether the scenario presented is the way by which the value of BTC will have to increase.

Haven't seen anyone reply to it yet.

piramida

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Borsche

Quote from: cp1 on December 12, 2013, 02:02:41 PM

Maybe we should divide each thread into 1/100 of a thread

yes actually a good way to explain coin division to the sillies. "Imagine this thread here is 1BTC, you can buy just one letter out of it".

windjc

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It's very obvious that many on this forum do not understand basic human psychology. mBTC is the obvious choice. People are SIMPLE creatures. The idea of cheaper is always better. And humans hate decimals. The more decimals the more they will avoid. You think the average human wants to calculate .00000... Of something you just don't get it.

People want ease of use, ease of understanding and simplicity.

Bitcoin is yet any of these things. Although I am confident the right choices will be made long term.

HigsonPP

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i think the mbtc camp's argument is super weak. i get it, down to the satoshi

rampantparanoia

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You. You will fund the BTC price above $1200.

cp1

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Stop using branwallets

Quote from: BurtW on December 12, 2013, 01:56:23 PM

Question: why do we need dozens and dozens of threads about the same damn subject?

Next time, instead of starting yet another thread about changing the units, just add your comments to the end of one of the other threads.

Maybe we should divide each thread into 1/100 of a thread, so everyone can have their own thread about the BTC unit, while keeping all of them in the same thread.

BurtW

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All paid signature campaigns should be banned.

Question: why do we need dozens and dozens of threads about the same damn subject?

Next time, instead of starting yet another thread about changing the units, just add your comments to the end of one of the other threads.

cp1

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Stop using branwallets

If everyone wants one of the currency unit then we should move the decimal point the other way and demand will increase by 10x.

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

Quote from: superresistant on December 12, 2013, 11:56:32 AM

Quote from: RodeoX on December 12, 2013, 11:34:20 AM

A lot of people are confused by this, but the denomination is irrelevant. It is more like a big pie. You are buying a slice of that pie and if you had a small slice of pie no one would say "that is not a slice of pie, pie slices are big." It should not matter if you are buying BTC100 or BTC0.0001, it is still a slice of pie.

Well it is very relevant. The mass adoption depend mostly on that specific point.

People don't care about logic. They don't want the idea of a slice of a pie, they want a Bitcoin or 10 Bitcoins, something they can count with their damn fingers.

I think your right, I just know better myself. I helped someone last week buy their first bitcoin. No matter what I said, the person wanted 1 bitcoin. Roll Eyes

P.S. I know this is heresy, but we could just move the decimal point and say that 0.001 is now 1.0. Everyone would suddenly have more bitcoin, but the same slice of pie.

I_bitcoin

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I will continue to convert fiat to bitcoin until my salary is all bitcoin. How about that?

Edit: This means I don't stop after 1200.

shadowninjax

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yes I too believe in the psychological factor affecting the average joe in investing small amounts to just try out. And switching to mBTC would probably help a lot to move the bitcoins to higher levels.

bumpk1nK

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Quote from: superresistant on December 12, 2013, 11:56:32 AM

Quote from: RodeoX on December 12, 2013, 11:34:20 AM

A lot of people are confused by this, but the denomination is irrelevant. It is more like a big pie. You are buying a slice of that pie and if you had a small slice of pie no one would say "that is not a slice of pie, pie slices are big." It should not matter if you are buying BTC100 or BTC0.0001, it is still a slice of pie.

Well it is very relevant. The mass adoption depend mostly on that specific point.

People don't care about logic. They don't want the idea of a slice of a pie, they want a Bitcoin or 10 Bitcoins, something they can count with their damn fingers.

They can buy Satoshis instead, and feel very rich, if this is how it works

superresistant

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Quote from: RodeoX on December 12, 2013, 11:34:20 AM

A lot of people are confused by this, but the denomination is irrelevant. It is more like a big pie. You are buying a slice of that pie and if you had a small slice of pie no one would say "that is not a slice of pie, pie slices are big." It should not matter if you are buying BTC100 or BTC0.0001, it is still a slice of pie.

Well it is very relevant. The mass adoption depend mostly on that specific point.

People don't care about logic. They don't want the idea of a slice of a pie, they want a Bitcoin or 10 Bitcoins, something they can count with their damn fingers.

seleme

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Duelbits.com

I kinda think it's too late to change anything. Bitcoin is what has been advertised to regular people, not milibitcoins or anything similar. And bitcoin scarcity is what is being used as one of main bitcoin selling points, changing anything is pretty risky.

John999

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Quote from: MAbtc on December 12, 2013, 11:28:49 AM

But it boggles my mind that people would really be so stupid, that not changing the unit would "stifle" growth. I find reading mBTC data from exchanges just hurts my eyes.....

I agree.

Reece523

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One thing I've noticed about myself is that I'm more cautious with my Litecoins than with my Bitcoins -- I think it's because 5 LTC feels like a lot but 0.18 BTC doesn't really (maybe a benefit for Bitcoin in certain industries [eg. gambling?]). There's something unsettling for me about me not having at least half a bitcoin. I couldn't imagine myself being content with 0.0025BTC but 25 mBTC doesn't sound too bad at all.

BurtW

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All paid signature campaigns should be banned.

I think we should all move to nBTC that way the minimum amount is 10. Bitcoin would really take off then. Imagine! People could buy thousands of "shares" at a time for only one dollar! But best of all no one would ever have to own just one. The least you could own would be 10.

The effect on the market is undeniable. We would be the first currency/asset where we did not have a way to transact in units of the currency/asset !!!

No more mucking about with single digits. Double digits accounts and transactions for everyone!!!

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

People are that stupid. 10-20 minutes of measured research would clear things up quickly. I'm not sure how many are prepared to do that. Observe what professional financial journalists often come out with.

Bitcoin could bypass consumption by the general public and head straight for institutional investment. It'll be fed back to people in a 'safer' form.

Where Bitcoin might falter is the gap between enthusiast/ early adopter territory and big finance. It'll take a handful of visionaries to bridge that gap. I think they're out there already.

Dragonkiller

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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Available Now!

Unit does need to change. Probably not yet though. But it does play an important role. For example, I'd rather pay $1000 for an ounce of gold than $1000 for 1/35 kg of gold. Even though it's the same thing, it has a psychological effect.

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

A lot of people are confused by this, but the denomination is irrelevant. It is more like a big pie. You are buying a slice of that pie and if you had a small slice of pie no one would say "that is not a slice of pie, pie slices are big." It should not matter if you are buying BTC100 or BTC0.0001, it is still a slice of pie.

superresistant

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You said it, it's about switching to smaller unit.

MAbtc

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But it boggles my mind that people would really be so stupid, that not changing the unit would "stifle" growth. I find reading mBTC data from exchanges just hurts my eyes.....

BittBurger

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Lets say there's a sell order for 1.0 BTC at $10,000 .....

Lets say 400 people purchase 0.0025 BTC.

Lets say they pay $25 for each 0.0025 BTC.

This would equate to 1 BTC and $10,000 total spent.

Would this activity cause BTC to be valued at $10,000? Or does it not work that way?

If not, I simply don't see how BTC is going to hit $10,000 .... purely from a trading perspective. People usually wont buy 0.0025 of a stock anyway.

Topic: Who will fund BTC price above $1200+ ???? (Read 8772 times)