Why are banks putting up with crypto trading?

pereira4

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Quote from: gentlemand on December 10, 2017, 02:25:04 PM

Quote from: pereira4 on December 10, 2017, 02:18:37 PM

If they cut liquidity in X country, then an exchange just needs to move to Y country, and X country no longer gets a cut from the business operating in X country.

Also, governments have been trying to kill Bitcoin since day one by trying to fork it and overtake Bitcoin's #1 spot with the fork (be it XT, Classic, Unlimited, Cash.. you name it).
They have realized that they cannot kill it from the technical aspect, so they will try to be a dominant force in the market. They cannot also simply naked short it to hell, so they will buy it up as much as possible. Get ready for crazy numbers in 2018.

But if that mindset exists why haven't UK banks taken it on? It's one the world's financial centres. There are plenty of other places with little or no regulation where you can bank just fine.

You cannot sell lemonade for Bitcoin and maintain a business account in the UK.

Governments will be the first ones with interest to move big sums of money in the blockchain... in The City there are the biggest people of high finance, I doubt they are stupid enough to let pass this opportunity. They will attempt to regulate UK exchanges, and they will keep buying BTC over the counter just like rich institutions do, then they will pump it when they are loaded enough. But the interesting trades always happen OTC, forget about exchanges, most of the rich people don't even use them.

TERA2

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Deb Rah Von Doom

Quote from: minersday on December 10, 2017, 05:46:10 PM

The only ones who are always going to love banks are those "clever" guys who are thinking about putting all their life savings on a bank fund with one percent revenue per year.

They claim theirselves to be masterminds, because they are "investing safely"

Quote from: TERA2 on December 10, 2017, 02:54:19 PM

Ever hears 'keep your enemies closer'? Just a couple years ago the banks were our enemy and everyone seems to have forgot.

Bitcoin is not going to die, and bitcoin is not going to kill banks, it is simple as that.

Stop thinking about that there is going to be a revolution, because it is not.

I agree there probably won't be a revolution. Also the banks wont kill bitcoin but they can lower prices.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: gentlemand on December 10, 2017, 12:41:06 PM

Whether we like it or not, Bitcoin and friends at present is largely dependent on company banking. They know perfectly well they can put a lid on it by cutting off bank accounts and your average exchange has no leverage over them. Why isn't it happening more often?

well, we saw it on a large scale with bitfinex. my impression of that case is that wells fargo was happily processing high volume bank wires for years without any issues. the fact that they abruptly cut bitfinex off via all correspondent banks at once tells me that the order came from on high. i suspect some regulator (maybe FINCEN, maybe the Washington State DFI or NYDFS, maybe some other federal agency) had something to do with it. it wasn't just an internal decision that wells fargo made.

and i think that's exactly the kind of situation UK banks have been trying to avoid. being a financial hub also means being closely watched by financial regulators. bitstamp has long been licensed and works closely with regulators/law enforcement, but banking has not been nearly as smooth for other exchanges like bitfinex, okcoin, cex, wex and others. altcoin exchanges like poloniex and bittrex continue to act like they will add fiat markets any day now, but the truth is they couldn't get the required banking volumes if they wanted to.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: gentlemand on December 10, 2017, 12:41:06 PM

In the UK no crypto business has a bank account. I think this is primarily because there's no regulation so they can't be arsed to try and interpret laws that might bite them on the arse in the future. There's also the likelihood that they don't like crypto too of course.

In other places I assume it's kind of similar yet there are enough places that do have banking.

The shadier/grey market exchanges have been largely reduced to third party bank accounts. For instance, Bitfinex brought back USD/EUR banking, but it's through a third party account; they aren't using their own bank account. BTC-e operated this way for years and Wex continues to do so.

As sketchy as it is, I think that banks are largely still willing to do business with companies like MoneyPolo (Mayzus--a UK company) and other payment processors because they are regulated companies that are supposedly following AML/KYC laws. Mayzus in particular is widely believed to be a money laundering operation, and I was amazed that they didn't go down when BTC-e did. I really don't know how sustainable this situation is.

Quote from: gentlemand on December 10, 2017, 12:41:06 PM

Many of these banks must now be taking in and sending out billions per year in crypto business. Considering the ball ache and potential future implications, why are they still tolerating it? It's business of course, but there's plenty of other business out there that's less trouble.

The market is going to shift away from crypto startups and dodgy exchanges and towards the Squares and Apples of the world. Square Cash BTC integration is the start of that, and the launch of futures markets enabled it. I'm honestly not sure where exactly that leaves the commercial banks. Bank of America is apparently planning to push into the cryptocurrency exchange space.

minersday

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The only ones who are always going to love banks are those "clever" guys who are thinking about putting all their life savings on a bank fund with one percent revenue per year.

They claim theirselves to be masterminds, because they are "investing safely"

Quote from: TERA2 on December 10, 2017, 02:54:19 PM

Ever hears 'keep your enemies closer'? Just a couple years ago the banks were our enemy and everyone seems to have forgot.

Bitcoin is not going to die, and bitcoin is not going to kill banks, it is simple as that.

Stop thinking about that there is going to be a revolution, because it is not.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: jjacob on December 10, 2017, 04:02:28 PM

Are you talking about banks closing accounts of customers who have any links to bitcoin? That is not usually possible, because they probably wouldn't know. It is one thing to find out that a business involves cryptocurrency, another to detect that one transaction of a customer could have a cryptocurrency link.
They already have their hands full trying to catch the money trail of terrorists and money launderers.

Yes. I've heard of plenty of cases of it but I think 9.5 times out 10 what's really happening is that they're selling shitloads on Localbitcoins and not telling them. In that scenario it's more the unauthorised use as a business account that pisses them off rather than the Bitcoin bit, but money laundering must be up there too.

I've never had any trouble myself but I haven't had any banking interactions with crypto for years now.

But this thread is specifically about commercial level banking. That's almost always been unavailable to Brits.

jjacob

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★Nitrogensports.eu★

Quote from: gentlemand on December 10, 2017, 12:41:06 PM

In the UK no crypto business has a bank account. I think this is primarily because there's no regulation so they can't be arsed to try and interpret laws that might bite them on the arse in the future. There's also the likelihood that they don't like crypto too of course.

In other places I assume it's kind of similar yet there are enough places that do have banking.

Many of these banks must now be taking in and sending out billions per year in crypto business. Considering the ball ache and potential future implications, why are they still tolerating it? It's business of course, but there's plenty of other business out there that's less trouble.

Whether we like it or not, Bitcoin and friends at present is largely dependent on company banking. They know perfectly well they can put a lid on it by cutting off bank accounts and your average exchange has no leverage over them. Why isn't it happening more often?

Are you talking about banks closing accounts of customers who have any links to bitcoin? That is not usually possible, because they probably wouldn't know. It is one thing to find out that a business involves cryptocurrency, another to detect that one transaction of a customer could have a cryptocurrency link.
They already have their hands full trying to catch the money trail of terrorists and money launderers.

Kingofbitcoin12345

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I have no idea if they are now using Blockchain technology in sending or transferring money from banks to any destination they want to.. But I’m sure if they do that it will manifest in cryptocurrency chart and the indicators of fast increases this days is a sign but until no one confirm about this transaction then it will all be just assumptions and speculation.. They hate bitcoin but I’m sure they’re exploring it and uses it but personally from banks employees to board officials..

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: Fortify on December 10, 2017, 03:19:04 PM

One company that I use happens to pay out with a personal name on the bank account, rather than the company name.

There you go. It's P2P. They can't stop that.

Intersango was the biggest UK BTC exchange in the old days. They got their business account by lying to Barlcays about it. They eventually found it and it was game over.

The GBP operations like Coinfloor have to bank in Poland.

Fortify

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There are companies in the UK that allow you to buy and sell bitcoin, I don't know how they get away with it though. One company that I use happens to pay out with a personal name on the bank account, rather than the company name. It's like most things though, there will be grey areas and workarounds, but who knows how long they will last. It could potentially get individuals in trouble for money laundering though.

TERA2

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Deb Rah Von Doom

I'm imagining a future where they is indeed a frenzy over coins, but not our coins. You see people rushing to buy FiatCoin and BOAcoin in their TD Ameritrade account. Meanwhile you are extremely frustrated and going 'omg you idiot that isn't a real coin. that isnt bitcoin. that isnt decentralized. why arent you on our illegal exchange trading real coins?
? havent you ever been in the crypto community or read the whitepaper or know what pki is? [no]'. But all of this just goes completely over their head and they are buying whatever is trending, as always.

baradfo

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Quote from: gentlemand on December 10, 2017, 12:41:06 PM

In the UK no crypto business has a bank account. I think this is primarily because there's no regulation so they can't be arsed to try and interpret laws that might bite them on the arse in the future. There's also the likelihood that they don't like crypto too of course.

In other places I assume it's kind of similar yet there are enough places that do have banking.

Many of these banks must now be taking in and sending out billions per year in crypto business. Considering the ball ache and potential future implications, why are they still tolerating it? It's business of course, but there's plenty of other business out there that's less trouble.

Whether we like it or not, Bitcoin and friends at present is largely dependent on company banking. They know perfectly well they can put a lid on it by cutting off bank accounts and your average exchange has no leverage over them. Why isn't it happening more often?

The good thing about this is there are businesses out there that are accepting crypto directly for their services. This is going up daily. The banks not accepting crypto to fiat transfers is a business decision that they have there in the UK. I don't think the banks have the power to kill the crypto community and they realize this. With that realization they are probably trying to figure out how to capitalize on cryptos and continue their business model that they have had for a few hundred years.

fabiorem

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Well, I remember back at China FUD, the banker Jamie Dimon had called bitcoin a "fraud" at the same time his bank was buying bitcoin papers in Nasdaq Stockholm. He was even accused of fraud by the swedish state.

So I think in the long term, they are going to adopt it, because most people dont want to have responsibility over their own money. They want it on the bank, because hackers. The banksters only criticize it to create FUD and buy the dips.

TERA2

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Deb Rah Von Doom

Its actually a trap to kill bitcoin and trade fake bitcoin derivatives, use proprietary bank coins, and impose regulations and laws on the crypto community, if not making the regular crypto ecosystem completely illegal. Ever hears 'keep your enemies closer'? Just a couple years ago the banks were our enemy and everyone seems to have forgot.

Torque

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A: Because banks will have to put up with Bitcoin trading to support Bitcoin ETFs. That's probably the only reason.

gentlemand

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Quote from: pereira4 on December 10, 2017, 02:18:37 PM

If they cut liquidity in X country, then an exchange just needs to move to Y country, and X country no longer gets a cut from the business operating in X country.

Also, governments have been trying to kill Bitcoin since day one by trying to fork it and overtake Bitcoin's #1 spot with the fork (be it XT, Classic, Unlimited, Cash.. you name it).
They have realized that they cannot kill it from the technical aspect, so they will try to be a dominant force in the market. They cannot also simply naked short it to hell, so they will buy it up as much as possible. Get ready for crazy numbers in 2018.

But if that mindset exists why haven't UK banks taken it on? It's one the world's financial centres. There are plenty of other places with little or no regulation where you can bank just fine.

You cannot sell lemonade for Bitcoin and maintain a business account in the UK.

pereira4

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If they cut liquidity in X country, then an exchange just needs to move to Y country, and X country no longer gets a cut from the business operating in X country.

Also, governments have been trying to kill Bitcoin since day one by trying to fork it and overtake Bitcoin's #1 spot with the fork (be it XT, Classic, Unlimited, Cash.. you name it).
They have realized that they cannot kill it from the technical aspect, so they will try to be a dominant force in the market. They cannot also simply naked short it to hell, so they will buy it up as much as possible. Get ready for crazy numbers in 2018.

iron talon

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Quote from: gentlemand on December 10, 2017, 12:41:06 PM

In the UK no crypto business has a bank account. I think this is primarily because there's no regulation so they can't be arsed to try and interpret laws that might bite them on the arse in the future. There's also the likelihood that they don't like crypto too of course.

In other places I assume it's kind of similar yet there are enough places that do have banking.

Many of these banks must now be taking in and sending out billions per year in crypto business. Considering the ball ache and potential future implications, why are they still tolerating it? It's business of course, but there's plenty of other business out there that's less trouble.

Whether we like it or not, Bitcoin and friends at present is largely dependent on company banking. They know perfectly well they can put a lid on it by cutting off bank accounts. Why isn't it happening more often?

They will probably adopt bitcoin and other crypto products in the future probably. They don't want to stop the development of the cryptos. That's how they tolerate the bank transfers to exchange accounts.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

In the UK no crypto business has a bank account. I think this is primarily because there's no regulation so they can't be arsed to try and interpret laws that might bite them on the arse in the future. There's also the likelihood that they don't like crypto too of course.

In other places I assume it's kind of similar yet there are enough places that do have banking.

Many of these banks must now be taking in and sending out billions per year in crypto business. Considering the ball ache and potential future implications, why are they still tolerating it? It's business of course, but there's plenty of other business out there that's less trouble.

Whether we like it or not, Bitcoin and friends at present is largely dependent on company banking. They know perfectly well they can put a lid on it by cutting off bank accounts and your average exchange has no leverage over them. Why isn't it happening more often?

Topic: Why are banks putting up with crypto trading? (Read 383 times)