Why are there no rewards for running a full node?

LoyceV

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Quote from: HeRetiK on November 06, 2018, 06:56:52 AM

It is also worth noting though that the original design of Bitcoin doesn't seem to have accounted for the division of mining and non-mining full nodes we see today (ie. the first versions of the Bitcoin reference client included the mining logic as well). However there's a lot of speculation in terms of what satoshi did and did not intend so I'll leave it at that.

Exactly! Satoshi's whitepaper didn't make a distinction between miners and nodes. The whitepaper mentioned "CPU power", thereby assuming all nodes are searching for new blocks, and all nodes can earn the block reward when they find a block.
Unfortunately, this financial incentive disappeared when ASICs made CPU (and GPU) mining impossible. One could argue all miners should run a full node, but most of them use mining pools, which means only the mining pool itself needs to run a full node.

HeRetiK

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Quote from: Davidbugs on November 06, 2018, 07:16:22 AM

Quote from: NeuroticFish on November 06, 2018, 02:44:19 AM

The pools, exchanges and probably other businesses do have full nodes, for their needs and for safety. Others can do this for the sake of decentralization.

Rewards? It can be good and it can be bad. Just look at the masternode coins; I don't like them, I don't find that model as safe and decentralized as Bitcoin.

Sorry if the question seems stupid. But I don't see what need an exchange has to run a full node...

To track in- and out-going transactions.

Because any third party an exchange relies on for receiving transaction data could potentially send them wrong data (eg. fake successful deposits where none took place or act as if a withdrawal has been non-successful even though it hit the blockchain) -- willfully or otherwise. The only way to avoid this risk is by running a full node by yourself.

Note that the very same problem is true for anyone using a SPV wallet such as Electrum instead of running their own full node. Difference being that you are likely 1) not as big a target as an exchange and 2) keeping track of in- and out-going transactions manually.

Davidbugs

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on November 06, 2018, 02:44:19 AM

The pools, exchanges and probably other businesses do have full nodes, for their needs and for safety. Others can do this for the sake of decentralization.

Rewards? It can be good and it can be bad. Just look at the masternode coins; I don't like them, I don't find that model as safe and decentralized as Bitcoin.

Sorry if the question seems stupid. But I don't see what need an exchange has to run a full node...

HeRetiK

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Quote from: HCP on November 05, 2018, 10:13:21 PM

Where would the funds for these rewards come from?
Who would be responsible for distributing them?
How would you determine how much reward any given node should receive?
Have you considered that this might "centralize" nodes... Encouraging large clusters of full nodes to claim rewards?

The reward of running a node is helping to keep the network decentralized and secure.

To expand on HCP's post: Assuming one would reserve a portion of the block subsidy to reward people running full nodes you'd still have the problem of distribution. Problem being, while the work aspect of PoW can not be "faked" (ie. the amount of computational power required is cryptographically secured), pretending to be a multitude of full nodes is fairly trivial (eg. on the extreme end an ISP could simply point hundreds or thousands of IP addresses to a single machine and nothing would be gained in terms of decentralization or reliability). That is to say, a full node subsidy is much easier to be gamed than a PoW-based mining subsidy.

It is also worth noting though that the original design of Bitcoin doesn't seem to have accounted for the division of mining and non-mining full nodes we see today (ie. the first versions of the Bitcoin reference client included the mining logic as well). However there's a lot of speculation in terms of what satoshi did and did not intend so I'll leave it at that.

NeuroticFish

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The pools, exchanges and probably other businesses do have full nodes, for their needs and for safety. Others can do this for the sake of decentralization.

Rewards? It can be good and it can be bad. Just look at the masternode coins; I don't like them, I don't find that model as safe and decentralized as Bitcoin.

pooya87

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because not everything is about "making money" and bitcoin was not created to help you "earn money". when Satoshi created bitcoin, his goal was to create a decentralized payment system that can work peer to peer unlike the altcoins that are being created these days with the goal of earning the most amount of money.

so what is the rewards? the reward is that when you run a full verifying node you are contributing to a decentralized network that is as strong as its peers. when you contribute you are making it stronger and also you gain the benefits of being able to fully verify everything including transactions.

HCP

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Where would the funds for these rewards come from?
Who would be responsible for distributing them?
How would you determine how much reward any given node should receive?
Have you considered that this might "centralize" nodes... Encouraging large clusters of full nodes to claim rewards?

The reward of running a node is helping to keep the network decentralized and secure.

Drysprinkles291

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i think it should be incentivized to run a updated full node. Why was it originally not intended to have build in rewards for people who make an effort like this?

Topic: Why are there no rewards for running a full node? (Read 224 times)