Why Coinbase & Binance does not support Bitcoin LN?

Oshosondy

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Quote from: stompix on April 24, 2023, 02:09:28 PM

Quote from: Oshosondy on April 23, 2023, 03:40:33 PM

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Thanks for telling me that, I have edited it and strikeout the exchange.

Quote from: PX-Z on April 24, 2023, 06:17:02 PM

Binance implemented the segwit native address on their plaform only after how many years it was launch on mainnet, so dont expect they will just implement LN on its early years.
As for CB, yes they have plan on it, we just dont know when.

Are you serious about this? Lightning is not the same as segwit. But the reasons Binance do not support segwit could be because of the money the exchange is making from bitcoin withdraw and also because of the altcoins which some people thought are bitcoin but not bitcoin, they are only pegged with bitcoin. Yet both lightning network and segwit were implemented the same year:

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on April 25, 2023, 06:11:23 AM

Quote from: mk4 on April 23, 2023, 11:23:36 AM

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that maybe it's because LN-related deposits/withdrawals simply doesn't have that much demand as of yet. Whether we like it or not, the crypto normie world barely uses LN, it's mostly the Bitcoin enthusiasts that are using LN as of today — in which the actual Bitcoin enthusiasts are only a very small percentage of total crypto exchange usage.
-snip-

I don't really agree here. I think that if services and exchanges were to adopt the lightning network, more people would start using it especially now with many wallets (Exodus, Wallet of Satoshi, etc.) supporting it and making it easier to use. Who would want to pay 10-15$ extra for withdrawing their funds when they can do it for a couple of satoshis instead?

I perfectly agree with you OmegaStarScream. See how segwit adoption increased when more wallets and exchanges supported it to the point that more than 80% of bitcoin transactions are from segwit addresses. As more wallets and exchanges are supporting lightning network, more people will prefer it. But what I do not like about lightning network is that if it is not your node it is not your your coin, most people are using custodial lightning network wallets.

Quote from: Woodie on April 25, 2023, 07:54:02 AM

But this fee you say they charge, from my understanding this fee goes to the miners and not them(coinbase)

Are you using any exchange at all? If you are and also making transaction on noncustodial wallet, you will see how exchanges are charging exorbitantly from bitcoin users.

stompix

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Quote from: Woodie on April 25, 2023, 07:54:02 AM

But this fee you say they charge, from my understanding this fee goes to the miners and not them(coinbase) unless they don't apply the said fees to a transaction then thats dishonesty on their part!

Binance charges 0.0002 per user per withdrawal.
Now, assuming their last transfers from hot wallets, both initial deposits batching and then payments they've paid for a total of 50 outputs this:
0.00183416 and 0.00041664 BTC, which is 0.0022508 , while charging 0.01 BTC.
So over 50 users, a 0.0078 BTC or some 200$ extra. Multiply those by a hundred and it starts becoming more profitable than fees on trading.

Quote from: mk4 on April 24, 2023, 02:23:52 PM

Because I don't think he was necessarily a hardcore pioneer for decentralization.

Yeah of course we all know this.
It was just a simple almost rhetorical question, but I feel you were ready for it since you knew who you have chosen to defend Cheesy

Rikafip

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Quote from: Woodie on April 25, 2023, 07:54:02 AM

But this fee you say they charge, from my understanding this fee goes to the miners and not them(coinbase) unless they don't apply the said fees to a transaction then thats dishonesty on their part!

Of course Coinbase spends less on the fee than they charge their users as for them that's just another revenue stream and it's not really dishonest as they are not hiding their withdrawal fee.

Truth to be told, Coinbase is not making much compared to Binance who has much higher withdrawal fees (at least for bitcoin).

Woodie

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Quote from: Bureau on April 23, 2023, 11:00:29 AM

Why would they? They charge a flat fee for any amount of Satoshi being withdrawn from thier exchange. In most cases they make a tone as from just withdrawal fees. Another way to earn Bitcoin without doing nothing.

But this fee you say they charge, from my understanding this fee goes to the miners and not them(coinbase) unless they don't apply the said fees to a transaction then thats dishonesty on their part!
All in all to avoid transactions being stuck in limbo and ensure its confirmed in the next block a high fee is applied or in layman's terms charged..

rat03gopoh

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Quote from: elevates on April 21, 2023, 08:43:04 AM

If these two exchanges integrate LN then it would help everyone and also promote Bitcoin LN. As we all have an account on either of these two big exchanges.

But it's not in their interest to improve the bitcoin ecosystem. Let users find their own innovation, if it "benes" enough for us, then we will start facilitating them.

Cz is a businessman who perfectly reads market potential. If you see today that there are still countless LN bitcoin users, I think binance has no reason to expand too quickly on new support features that don't add much significant profit.

OmegaStarScream

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Quote from: mk4 on April 23, 2023, 11:23:36 AM

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that maybe it's because LN-related deposits/withdrawals simply doesn't have that much demand as of yet. Whether we like it or not, the crypto normie world barely uses LN, it's mostly the Bitcoin enthusiasts that are using LN as of today — in which the actual Bitcoin enthusiasts are only a very small percentage of total crypto exchange usage.
-snip-

I don't really agree here. I think that if services and exchanges were to adopt the lightning network, more people would start using it especially now with many wallets (Exodus, Wallet of Satoshi, etc.) supporting it and making it easier to use. Who would want to pay 10-15$ extra for withdrawing their funds when they can do it for a couple of satoshis instead?

PX-Z

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Binance implemented the segwit native address on their plaform only after how many years it was launch on mainnet, so dont expect they will just implement LN on its early years.
As for CB, yes they have plan on it, we just dont know when.

mk4

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Quote from: stompix on April 24, 2023, 02:09:28 PM

But if you're a pioneer in the field of decentralization and a leader in the world of crypto and you aim for all those bla bla bla things CZ brags about it when he goes full peacock mode he should have at least tried, right? If not deposits at least offer withdrawals via LN, it would have been easier for Binance and it would have been enough for a test to see demand. And even if we talk volume and usage, if you still list 600+ rank coin that does under 1 million in wash trading and you still go through the effort of offering deposits and withdrawals for it, which at that volume I'm pretty sure are under 1 BTC a day you could offer LN also, and even if the numbers won't be spectacular for sure they would top at least one-quarter of those useless bitcoins traded there.

Also, the prosecution would like to ask the devil's advocate why are Segwit withdrawals more expensive than legacy ones?

Because I don't think he was necessarily a hardcore pioneer for decentralization. You can be for decentralization but at the same time not immediately cater for what the Bitcoin-ethusiast community wants. It's the simple fact that the normie community prefers cheap-tx altcoins whether we like it or not.

stompix

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Quote from: mk4 on April 23, 2023, 11:23:36 AM

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that maybe it's because LN-related deposits/withdrawals simply doesn't have that much demand as of yet.

But if you're a pioneer in the field of decentralization and a leader in the world of crypto and you aim for all those bla bla bla things CZ brags about it when he goes full peacock mode he should have at least tried, right? If not deposits at least offer withdrawals via LN, it would have been easier for Binance and it would have been enough for a test to see demand. And even if we talk volume and usage, if you still list 600+ rank coin that does under 1 million in wash trading and you still go through the effort of offering deposits and withdrawals for it, which at that volume I'm pretty sure are under 1 BTC a day you could offer LN also, and even if the numbers won't be spectacular for sure they would top at least one-quarter of those useless bitcoins traded there.

Also, the prosecution would like to ask the devil's advocate why are Segwit withdrawals more expensive than legacy ones?

Quote from: Oshosondy on April 23, 2023, 03:40:33 PM

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Quote from: Oshosondy on April 23, 2023, 03:40:33 PM

Quote from: stompix on April 21, 2023, 09:09:49 AM

They don't even call it WBTC (which is on ETH) or anything else, but straight BTC!
And they have two of them!

Binance has more than two, it has three.

I meant on their own chains, not including eth.

Oshosondy

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Quote from: elevates on April 21, 2023, 08:43:04 AM

Known CEX that supports Bitcoin LN:

Bitfinex
Kraken
OKEx

It is now called OKX. It was changed from OKEX to OKX.

There are many exchanges that support lightning network. You can check the list: https://github.com/theDavidCoen/LightningExchanges

If you click on that link, there are 25 exchanges there that are now supporting lightning network.

Kraken
Bitfinex
Bitstamp
OKX
OKcoin
NiceHash
~~TheRockTrading~~ (excluding it because it is said to be a scam exchange and no more existing)
Southxchange
CoinCorner
BitMex
Buda
BullBitcoin
Bitaroo
River Financial
VBTC Vietnam
FixedFloat
LOFT
PrimeBit
SimpleFX
BitcoinVN
Bipa
Boltz
Kollider
LN Markets
Tauros

I excluded Paxful because it is no more existing.

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on April 21, 2023, 08:45:39 AM

As for Coinbase, then they already made a statement a couple of weeks ago about it if I'm not mistaken. They have plans to integrate it.

I read about it too. This is a link about it:
Coinbase CEO says Bitcoin Lightning is 'something we’ll integrate'

Quote from: stompix on April 21, 2023, 09:09:49 AM

They don't even call it WBTC (which is on ETH) or anything else, but straight BTC!
And they have two of them!

Binance has more than two, it has three. Binance has:

BEP20 (BSC)
BEP2 (BNB Beacon Chain)
ERC20

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Quote from: elevates on April 21, 2023, 08:43:04 AM

Then it led me to think why would Binance not integrate LN wherein they support multiple non-Bitcoin blockchains for transfer.

• They don't directly benefit from it,
• They would lose a portion of their revenue gained by transaction fees (if it catches on, which I doubt it would),
• There might not be enough demand for it to warrant it getting implemented.

Quote from: elevates on April 21, 2023, 08:43:04 AM

If these exchanges can integrate Bitcoin LN then why big exchanges like Binance & Coinbase do not support Bitcoin LN? If these two exchanges integrate LN then it would help everyone and also promote Bitcoin LN. As we all have an account on either of these two big exchanges.

We all don't have an account on binance or coinbase and they are not expected to help promote LN or any other project.

mk4

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I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that maybe it's because LN-related deposits/withdrawals simply doesn't have that much demand as of yet. Whether we like it or not, the crypto normie world barely uses LN, it's mostly the Bitcoin enthusiasts that are using LN as of today — in which the actual Bitcoin enthusiasts are only a very small percentage of total crypto exchange usage.

Coyster

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Quote from: elevates on April 21, 2023, 08:43:04 AM

If these two exchanges integrate LN then it would help everyone and also promote Bitcoin LN.

If Binance were renowned for supporting/promoting Bitcoin, you can then prolly ask this question as to why they are yet to see the need to integrate Bitcoin LN, but Binance do not support Bitcoin as quite a lot of people erroneously believe, Binance prioritizes profit, and profit alone. They prolly look at Bitcoin being decentralized and imagine that they can't really gain anything promoting it, thus they would choose their shitcoins over it everyday, they can play around with them for profit, something they can't do with Bitcoin.

Bureau

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Why would they? They charge a flat fee for any amount of Satoshi being withdrawn from thier exchange. In most cases they make a tone as from just withdrawal fees. Another way to earn Bitcoin without doing nothing.

stompix

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on April 21, 2023, 08:45:39 AM

Why would Binance support the lightning network when they can sell you WBTC in BSC. Tongue

They don't even call it WBTC (which is on ETH) or anything else, but straight BTC!
And they have two of them!

@OP
Since Binance is charging more for a segwit transaction and a higher minimum you can pretty much guess how many pigs will fly till they add LN!!!
But CZ will post some bs on Twitter, some #safu thing and most will forget he's actually one of Bitcoin's biggest enemies.

Nwada001

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Adding to what OmegaStarScream have said .
The reason is; Because they don't want their fees cut out, If they initiate the lightning network today on their exchange (Binance in particular), everyone who knows how cheap and fast the network is will probably want to use it. Instead, they will want to suggest an alternative to you, which is the pegged token, which they also call Bitcoin under the BSC chain, which they will say has a fast transaction speed and a low transfer fee; sometimes they even offer almost free transfers. This is because they want to hold down users' real Bitcoin and give them their pegged token, which can be depegged anytime and will be worthless if the real Bitcoin still stands.

OmegaStarScream

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Why would Binance support the lightning network when they can sell you WBTC in BSC. Tongue

As for Coinbase, then they already made a statement a couple of weeks ago about it if I'm not mistaken. They have plans to integrate it.

elevates

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I was sending a few satoshis to a Binance exchange but they got delayed and the reason was the sudden hike in transaction fees. I did apply the fee suggested by my wallet and still, this happened. This situation led me to check whether Bitcoin LN is supported by Binance and I found out that it does not.

Then it led me to think why would Binance not integrate LN wherein they support multiple non-Bitcoin blockchains for transfer. I went ahead and did some Google searches and found one recently updated article on Medium. There was a list that had a handful of known and trusted CEX & DEX that have integrated LN into their infrastructure.

Known CEX that supports Bitcoin LN:

Bitfinex
Kraken
OKEx

Known DEX that supports Bitcoin LN:

RoboSats
HodlHodl

If these exchanges can integrate Bitcoin LN then why big exchanges like Binance & Coinbase do not support Bitcoin LN? If these two exchanges integrate LN then it would help everyone and also promote Bitcoin LN. As we all have an account on either of these two big exchanges.

Topic: Why Coinbase & Binance does not support Bitcoin LN? (Read 180 times)