Why didn't Bakkt launch bring $25000 on the table?

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Quote from: darkangel11 on December 17, 2019, 03:08:45 PM

Bakkt is nothing but speculation. It was supposed to be big because it was supposed to odder futures backed by real Bitcoins but it doesn't.

The thing with Bakkt's Bitcoin backed futures is that you don't have to accept delivery of the coin(s). In that sense the futures are cash settled until traders choose to actually get them delivered. Futures traders aren't your average hodler type of people, they just want to speculate on the price.

It's kinda confusing the way they marketed themselves, so I can understand why people are disappointed. The thing people do have to blame themselves for is that they expected Bakkt to sky rocket the price right off the bat. It takes time to build up volume and a large clientele. If that clientele on top of that isn't interested in claiming any coins, it's safe to say that there won't be much of a positive impact ever.

I would have preferred to see Bakkt empty the OTC market to fill its reserves, but it doesn't seem like they will ever run out of what they thus far accumulated.

cabron

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Bakkt is just not a good market because they don't deal with real bitcoin that we send in and out that will affect its supply in the market to which the demand and supply law doesn't apply All they do there are just trading numbers.

I can't even see their market to check what exactly are they doing there because it seem like they are the only who are fooling each other and yet who whole crypto market are affected.

exstasie

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Quote from: buwaytress on December 17, 2019, 12:34:41 PM

Institutional money entered in 2016. I've said it before from all the obvious signs and evidence of what we know about big money and PE funds, etc. Bakkt was too late.

Only high risk hedge fund operations and traders were entering in 2016. That's probably still true today. I believe we're still waiting on traditional investment banks, credit unions, insurance companies, pension funds, endowments, asset managers, etc. You know, most of the institutional investment world.

Despite their cheesy DBA name, Bakkt is a respected legacy exchange, and they are the first one to work with real BTC. That's a really big deal for the dinosaur investor classes mentioned above. Fidelity's impending foray into the custody/exchange markets is a big deal too. Baby steps.....

darkangel11

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Bakkt is not doing anything good for Bitcoin, but why should it? People were saying that this or that company will make the price go up but it didn't happen and it won't happen. The only thing that will do it is adoption. It can also be done by fake news of adoption but such things get verified sooner or later and price comes back from where it started.

Bakkt is nothing but speculation. It was supposed to be big because it was supposed to odder futures backed by real Bitcoins but it doesn't. It's still selling unbacked futures like all other markets and what happened when CME opened? We dumped. What happened when another futures market Bakkt opened? We dumped. It's because when they offer futures most of the stock market will short because traditional investors who don't care about the technology behind it see Bitcoin as a bubble.

Ayiranorea

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Quote from: panganib999 on December 17, 2019, 10:01:19 AM

Bakkt spiked BTC only because of the hyped it brought, which quickly died down, like super fast. Especially when it launched and it did absolutely nothing to pump the BTC market. Now, Bakkt reaches new ATH in their volumes and is affecting the market, though the effect is a bit on the low side. Bakkt couldn't bring the $25k simply because... It wasn't supposed to bring it. Or rather, it couldn't. It didn't have the power nor strategy to push the market to ATH of BTC. Bakkt is on the right track, but don't expect and pumps because of it.

Yes, by the time of Bakkt launch even after big hype nothing much happened. Earlier days the investment got is very low and now slowly there is better progress. This has made the market to have things attributed with the Bakkt unlike the prevailing trend. As in the above quote Bakkt is on its way to provide a large scale price pumping, but the same isn't anywhere near. As we experienced the previous bull market it can happen unexpected. By now the market seems to bleed red while some are lucky to have their altcoins grew against bitcoin.

Leon83

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Why would the launch of Bakkt cause a bullrun? It takes time. The only thing that can cause a proper bullrun is the aftermath of the halvening.
After a few months, the halving of the block reward will automatically increase the price and kickstart the next bullrun. And this time FOMO with institutional investors aswell.

Arkann

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Before the launch of Bakkt, there were a lot of expectations that the cryptocurrency market would react to this event with a bull run. In turn, I was convinced that after this event, nothing happened due to manipulations in the cryptocurrency market in order to prevent the Bitcoin price from rising. It seemed to me that it was precisely to the big Whales and speculators for this period that it was not profitable to raise the price, and on the contrary they want to lower it even lower, which is happening today. But how realistic were our expectations from the launch of Bakkt? Now, I doubt that Bakkt could affect the price of Bitcoin at all.

buwaytress

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I think, had Bakkt gone on quietly, and not given themselves ridiculous deadlines, and simply approached things pragmatically without pressure and without hyperbole, the effect would have been a lot bigger than what we saw.

On the other hand, I don't think there really was that much of a disappointment from those who might have hoped from it earlier. You know what happens when you delay and postpone too often. All the excitement's gone, and then people forgot why they were excited in the first place.

Plus. Institutional money entered in 2016. I've said it before from all the obvious signs and evidence of what we know about big money and PE funds, etc. Bakkt was too late. Doesn't mean it won't continue to build an impact over the next couple of years, though.

Febo

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Quote from: 2double0 on December 16, 2019, 06:50:18 PM

We all had high hopes since the time we knew that a major stocks trading provider was set to launch this Bakkt since it was going to bring big buyers and 'institutional investors' to the table. There is no doubt that Bakkt had been setting records one by one after its launch and had brought Bitcoin a greater volume in Future trading. But, was that enough? What happened after the launch and why couldn't Bakkt deliver what we were expecting highly from it? The rise in price of Bitcoin? Didn't you think it the way I did? What could be the reason for this continuous decline that BTC is facing?

Because no one is interested in Bitcoin so close after ATH at end of 2017. Bitcoin price increased just because of instability in USA government. Markets have no ideas what will happen in start of this year. Of course in cases like that money goes also in some crazy things as it is Bitcoin. Since elections are getting closer, USA government actions become way more predictive. So people are more relaxed and forgot about Bitcoin again. There wil be more interest in Bakkt next year and even more a year latter.

panganib999

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Bakkt spiked BTC only because of the hyped it brought, which quickly died down, like super fast. Especially when it launched and it did absolutely nothing to pump the BTC market. Now, Bakkt reaches new ATH in their volumes and is affecting the market, though the effect is a bit on the low side. Bakkt couldn't bring the $25k simply because... It wasn't supposed to bring it. Or rather, it couldn't. It didn't have the power nor strategy to push the market to ATH of BTC. Bakkt is on the right track, but don't expect and pumps because of it.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: 2double0 on December 16, 2019, 06:50:18 PM

We all had high hopes since the time we knew that a major stocks trading provider was set to launch this Bakkt since it was going to bring big buyers and 'institutional investors' to the table. There is no doubt that Bakkt had been setting records one by one after its launch and had brought Bitcoin a greater volume in Future trading. But, was that enough? What happened after the launch and why couldn't Bakkt deliver what we were expecting highly from it? The rise in price of Bitcoin? Didn't you think it the way I did? What could be the reason for this continuous decline that BTC is facing?

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/48669/bakkts-monthly-bitcoin-futures-hit-all-time-high-of-37m

37 milion $ trading volume. Thats 1/10 volume from binance spot market and 1/25 volume of binance futures market. It will not affect price at all. It was just over-hyped news that disappoint everyone.

Now you ask why bitcoin price is dropping. Because there are not enough buyers willing to buy at current price. That's all

audaciousbeing

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Quote from: 2double0 on December 16, 2019, 06:50:18 PM

We all had high hopes since the time we knew that a major stocks trading provider was set to launch this Bakkt since it was going to bring big buyers and 'institutional investors' to the table. There is no doubt that Bakkt had been setting records one by one after its launch and had brought Bitcoin a greater volume in Future trading. But, was that enough? What happened after the launch and why couldn't Bakkt deliver what we were expecting highly from it? The rise in price of Bitcoin? Didn't you think it the way I did? What could be the reason for this continuous decline that BTC is facing?

This would come as a disappointment to those who expected that the moment an institution enters the market, it would automatically transform to increase in the price of bitcoin forgetting that when institutions are involved, its not run like the whales that would just push money and expect that there would be increase but there are rules to be followed. There is a board they are accountable to, there is a regulatory body that is looking at them and most importantly there is an inherent risk which would not guarantee and income for them which would be used to pay their investors. So, its a gradual move and one company is not enough to push the price.

Lucius

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Bakkt has done its part by pump the price from April, at least that's what some claim. Was the reason in the assumption that Bakkt was buying BTC in that time, or investors were expecting a miracle after the launch of Bakkt? It is an indisputable fact that the price started to fall immediately after launch, and it is hard to believe that it was a coincidence.

Many wanted to link the launch of Bakkt and CBOE in 2017, suggesting a new big pump will happen again, but they completely ignored the circumstances that were in 2017. It was after halving time (1.5 years after halving), and this does not exist this year.

Personally, I would not say that the price is currently low considering the beginning of the year. Some have obviously been expecting a lot more, but this is a reality that we need to get used to and also prepare for the big things that are possible in 2020/2021.

2double0

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And after the launch of Bakkt, BTC spiked to $13400 too. Should the credits be given to that only? Or it had nothing to do with Bakkt and had other causes involved?

I had high hopes because I bought at $13500 when it sparked high during 2018 beginning and I was waiting for the right time to sell it for my real life problems. Though the investment was not so healthy, I sold it at $12800 this year and decided not to believe any shit news like this Bakkt one in the future. A lesson learnt through this trade.

ecnalubma

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Maybe most big investors are not much influenced by the BAKKT’s hype it is unexpected to those who assume that the price will rise after the launch because the magic didn’t happen. But I don’t believe that BTC has continuously declining because every year we have higher lows.

slaman29

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Because the only people who were saying Bakkt was the product every big whale was waiting for were Bakkt, and people who really truly had no idea how Bitcoin buyers work.

If you were a millionaire or bank with millions to put into Bitcoin. What do you do? Wait for something like Bakkt to happen and go in at whatever price Bakkt happens to launch in?

Or go OTC and have your own bitcoin immediately?

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: adaseb on December 16, 2019, 11:00:55 PM

I don't think Bakkt had much of an effect on the markets. We were actually surprised to see it launch and didn't have much of an effect the day of launch when it sold like 5 bitcoins or such. Then a few days later it was a big decline and we haven't seen 5 figures for a while.

the dump from $10k started the same day bakkt launched, september 23rd. the huge blood candle to $8k was the day after though.

Quote from: adaseb on December 16, 2019, 11:00:55 PM

There are many longs on Bitfinex so maybe they know something we don't.

that's always the mystery---is it dumb money piled on the wrong side of the market? or smart money buying blood in the streets? we'll only know in hindsight.

my gut reaction to the huge number of longs: bearish. impending long squeeze? Lips sealed

pooya87

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well most of the things that were heard about Bakkt and were expected from it was overly hyped up. so it is understandable why most of them didn't happen. but also you can't expect "adoption" to happen over night and then for the price to shoot up past previous ATH in such a short time.

with or without Bakkt, bitcoin is still on its own path and continues on it. this path is the same cycle that we keep seeing every couple of years: bottom, accumulation, small rises, slow rises, bigger rises, faster rise, bubble, bubble burst, bear market, long downtrend, repeat: bottom,...
now we are in that small and slow rises phase. Bakkt might have sped up the process a little bit but it can't just skip a step and end up with the bubble overnight.

adaseb

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I don't think Bakkt had much of an effect on the markets. We were actually surprised to see it launch and didn't have much of an effect the day of launch when it sold like 5 bitcoins or such. Then a few days later it was a big decline and we haven't seen 5 figures for a while.

I think the market learn't its lesson when the BTC futures launched actually 2 years ago. I remember when the CBOE launched the price was still rallying, then a week later CME launched a few contracts traded at $20K on the futures and then it started to plummet. Its the 2 year anniversity today of this happening. And 1 year ago was actually the $3100 bottom, so who knows. Maybe in the middle of December there is some surprise that Bitcoin is cooking up.

There are many longs on Bitfinex so maybe they know something we don't.

Juggy777

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Quote from: 2double0 on December 16, 2019, 06:50:18 PM

We all had high hopes since the time we knew that a major stocks trading provider was set to launch this Bakkt since it was going to bring big buyers and 'institutional investors' to the table. There is no doubt that Bakkt had been setting records one by one after its launch and had brought Bitcoin a greater volume in Future trading. But, was that enough? What happened after the launch and why couldn't Bakkt deliver what we were expecting highly from it? The rise in price of Bitcoin? Didn't you think it the way I did? What could be the reason for this continuous decline that BTC is facing?

@2double0 this topic was discussed a while ago and my answer about this remains the same Bakkt failed due to it’s inability to launch in time, it got delayed so many times that people lost their interest in it. Initially I too was very excited like how you are now about it’s launch and it’s potential for boosting bitcoin prices, but towards the end when it finally launched I had almost forgotten about it’s existence because everytime I thought it would launch the launch only kept on getting delayed.

Here’s an old thread discussing it: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bakkt-has-traded-only-7-btc-so-far-5186785

https://www.coindesk.com/launch-of-bakkt-bitcoin-futures-market-may-get-postponed-again

CryptoBry

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Quote from: 2double0 on December 16, 2019, 06:50:18 PM

We all had high hopes since the time we knew that a major stocks trading provider was set to launch this Bakkt since it was going to bring big buyers and 'institutional investors' to the table. There is no doubt that Bakkt had been setting records one by one after its launch and had brought Bitcoin a greater volume in Future trading. But, was that enough? What happened after the launch and why couldn't Bakkt deliver what we were expecting highly from it? The rise in price of Bitcoin? Didn't you think it the way I did? What could be the reason for this continuous decline that BTC is facing?

Unfortunately, these institutional buyers are not the same kind of people (newbies and innocents) that helped push Bitcoin to the top of the hill in 2017. These investors are savvy and they actually do not care what can happen with Bitcoin all they care is that they get the profit that they wanted. This is something we should always put into the table. We could never expect these people to be carried away by hypes and emotional appeal. In my view, there is nothing wrong with Bakkt and it can be playing a good role in the overall goal of making Bitcoin go mainstream but we should not be overestimating this platform as this is not the only reason why Bitcoin will be adopted by the people.

Wexnident

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Overhyped? It isn't that Bakkt failed to live up to what the people want or expected, but rather, the expectations of the people were hiked up way too much. Too much so that Bakkt hadn't expected it, which ultimately led to a disappointing launch back then. On the other hand, Bakkt is on the right track (imo) and currently shows an improving trend. It is already developing quite nicely and is showing promise of affecting the BTC market in the long run.

As for the decline, well, it isn't the worse we've seen so far. Pretty good for others to take advantage of as an entry point. When it dips into 5k or so, question the reason at that time.

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Quote from: 2double0 on December 16, 2019, 06:50:18 PM

Didn't you think it the way I did?

Not really. I was curious as to the effect Bakkt would have on the market, and part of me thought that it might be a bullish thing, but obviously it hasn't been at all.

One thing I've wondered is how trading on Bakkt affects bitcoin's price, if at all. The traders that use Bakkt aren't trading real bitcoin--they're trading futures and I don't think there's much "physical delivery" when the contracts expire. The same situation happens in the commodity markets, where oil traders for example don't usually want barrels of oil delivered to them when the crude oil future contract that they bought expires. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not a options, futures, or commodity trader but I have learned a little about all of those things in college.

Quote from: 2double0 on December 16, 2019, 06:50:18 PM

What could be the reason for this continuous decline that BTC is facing?

Who knows, but so far it isn't a continuous decline. It's more like a pretty good dip, and bitcoin is at $6886 as I'm writing this. That level was reached about a month ago, so it's not a huge deal IMO.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: 2double0 on December 16, 2019, 06:50:18 PM

We all had high hopes since the time we knew that a major stocks trading provider was set to launch this Bakkt since it was going to bring big buyers and 'institutional investors' to the table.

you thought wall street was just gonna show up the second bakkt launched and buy up the whole market? Cheesy

the smart guys in the room weren't expecting that at all. the launch was always either gonna be a nothingburger or "buy the rumor and sell the news".

2double0

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We all had high hopes since the time we knew that a major stocks trading provider was set to launch this Bakkt since it was going to bring big buyers and 'institutional investors' to the table. There is no doubt that Bakkt had been setting records one by one after its launch and had brought Bitcoin a greater volume in Future trading. But, was that enough? What happened after the launch and why couldn't Bakkt deliver what we were expecting highly from it? The rise in price of Bitcoin? Didn't you think it the way I did? What could be the reason for this continuous decline that BTC is facing?

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