Why do gambling websites start investigating accounts only after big wins?

carlfebz2

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Quote from: uneng on February 16, 2021, 03:00:40 PM

Quote from: hahay on February 16, 2021, 08:41:12 AM

If that happens then of course the reputation of their own site has fallen, does that happen to the gambling sites that are here? I don't think so, they or the users who get into the problem I think it's their own fault because I've experienced that. My balance was frozen at the time but after making a complaint, the problem was fixed quickly. So, I believe this is not a problem, unless they are a new site or even an untrustworthy site that will freeze their user accounts after a big win, because I believe trusted sites here don't do that.

I agree with you. If that situation happens the casino reputation is over. It will make a lot of whales run away from the fishy casino, because this is the kind of gambler who places the biggest bets and have more chances of achieving the jackpot. I think no casino owners want to distance this gambler category from their tables.
Casinos doing that may think they are smart when freezing big winners funds, but in fact they will be the main prejudiced after such news spread in forums like bitcointalk and reddit.

That will really risk out their reputation of their existence would be over because people will find out to be that place to be shady and people would just simply flock out and find another place
on where they can confidently play without minding about withdrawals incase of big hits.

Big wins should really be paid out without questions asked or any issues that would be raised specially if those wins are purely fair and square.

Only shady casinos or scam will really be having this kind of behavior and sooner or later these places would surely go down where there's no player would be hanging out to this place.

uneng

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Quote from: hahay on February 16, 2021, 08:41:12 AM

If that happens then of course the reputation of their own site has fallen, does that happen to the gambling sites that are here? I don't think so, they or the users who get into the problem I think it's their own fault because I've experienced that. My balance was frozen at the time but after making a complaint, the problem was fixed quickly. So, I believe this is not a problem, unless they are a new site or even an untrustworthy site that will freeze their user accounts after a big win, because I believe trusted sites here don't do that.

I agree with you. If that situation happens the casino reputation is over. It will make a lot of whales run away from the fishy casino, because this is the kind of gambler who places the biggest bets and have more chances of achieving the jackpot. I think no casino owners want to distance this gambler category from their tables.
Casinos doing that may think they are smart when freezing big winners funds, but in fact they will be the main prejudiced after such news spread in forums like bitcointalk and reddit.

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Quote from: Sadlife on February 16, 2021, 08:43:03 AM

You are generalizing every gambling websites, although there are websites that acts shady and freeze account of the player who won big. You can still find some does without issue and smooth transaction. First and for most, read their TOS maybe its already stated in their rules then it's the players fault for not checking. Second always consult members here in Bitcointalk if you have doubts in a particular gambling site.

People nowadays are so sensitive about the goal and achievements of others, they always think that if a person won or achueve anything that is big, he somehow manage to cheat or to have some help to won. These was actually the basic idea of why most of the websites started to investigate some winners in gambling. And they do also believe that a player is having some cheats like using a bot or some engine hacks though their system is very secure. I think this kind of atttitude or situation makes a winner more like shy and insecure in his prize. I think gambling isn't always happy to get won if you have something like this investigation or you are being under investigate by someone or a site.

Sadlife

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You are generalizing every gambling websites, although there are websites that acts shady and freeze account of the player who won big. You can still find some does without issue and smooth transaction. First and for most, read their TOS maybe its already stated in their rules then it's the players fault for not checking. Second always consult members here in Bitcointalk if you have doubts in a particular gambling site.

hahay

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If that happens then of course the reputation of their own site has fallen, does that happen to the gambling sites that are here? I don't think so, they or the users who get into the problem I think it's their own fault because I've experienced that. My balance was frozen at the time but after making a complaint, the problem was fixed quickly. So, I believe this is not a problem, unless they are a new site or even an untrustworthy site that will freeze their user accounts after a big win, because I believe trusted sites here don't do that.

RealMalatesta

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

The biggest question here is, if the gambling website starts investigating that player's account after a big win, then why doesn't the gambling website start the investigation when that player starts losing money? I think a solution to the problem should be found. Because those who are experienced can get their money back by posting on Bitcointalk and various places but there are many inexperienced people who can't tell their problem in the right place so they don't get their money back anymore. So this seems to me to be a big problem for gamblers.

Yes, they do so and the reason why they investigate only after big losses even baffle me. Maybe they don't mind a player cheating them and getting away with a few bucks but once the player wins big they make sure everything was legit.

The worst part in my opinion is when crypto gambling sites ask for KYC because seriously anyone would rather play at a casino and sports betting platform like bet365 instead of crypto casinos because despite the big features offered by crypto casinos we have to admit that we are far behind in terms of fiat casinos like bet365 or williamhill.

And asking for KYC does nothing because if a player has cheated in some ways just tell them the reason and there's no need to know "who" they are to tell them why they are wrong.

Fundamentals Of

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Because it serves them best. If they find a problem with a winner's account, they might even get their money back. It is almost as if they haven't lost at all. What would they gain if they find a problem with a loser's account? Nothing. So why investigate it then? The site is investing effort and time and other resources only to gain nothing? That's not what we should be expecting from gambling sites.

This is common sense. Gambling sites are greedy. They expect to win. And if they lose, they will find a way not to give the prize. This is the real reason why they manually check the accounts of winners. The rest they relegate to their bots.

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Quote from: bitterguy28 on February 16, 2021, 05:33:42 AM

i think the best way is just Play with small amount and be contented winning small also , so there will never an issue then.

Even if you play with a small amount you can still win big since there are games that involves jackpots. Like what the others have already mentioned as long as you play in a reputable site cashing out big wins shouldn't be an issue.

Quote from: rodskee on February 16, 2021, 05:19:34 AM

Please don't extend depending those sites in which the truth is they are intentionally doing this because of their own interests.
They can at least check each account or they can put a early warning if the account created or depositing is questionable but why would they do that? when the deposit is what they really want from us gamblers?

There are casinos that are able to quickly detect accounts before they get to the point of winning big but most casinos don't have access to this type of tool though.

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Unfortunately this is not going to change but a solution to this already exist in my opinion.You should choose a casino which has a lot of time in activity like many years,it has only positive feedbacks and what is the most important thing it has the least number of these incidents and none of these were fault of the casino itself but the fault was of the players who cheated.

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Quote from: MCVXYZ on February 16, 2021, 05:20:05 AM

Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

Many online gambling websites create conflicts with their customers when that player wins a big bet. The owner of the gambling website then starts investigating the player's account to see if there is any evidence so that the player's account can be blocked without payment! And they block many accounts without paying the winning money to the players. And the most used reason to block the account is the connected account. For a player this creates frustrating situations.

The biggest question here is, if the gambling website starts investigating that player's account after a big win, then why doesn't the gambling website start the investigation when that player starts losing money? I think a solution to the problem should be found. Because those who are experienced can get their money back by posting on Bitcointalk and various places but there are many inexperienced people who can't tell their problem in the right place so they don't get their money back anymore. So this seems to me to be a big problem for gamblers.

I think the answer is very unfair and disappointing:

Same feeling here mate, every time i read about the same stories of claiming ? i felt broken hearted by this strategy.

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The conflict of interests. Player wins and not a Casino, Then the managers of untrusted gambling websites start investigating the player's account, but they don't do this if player lose a lot of money.

Perfect fact , if we continue to lose they are rejoicing but once we win big ? then things change and we will be looks like a cheater or scammer instantly because we won but never when we are losing.

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What can player do in this situation? I think nothing,but... So , My advice is to not play websites where you can get just a fear , not money. And we must talk about websites like this.

i think the best way is just Play with small amount and be contented winning small also , so there will never an issue then.

XZERO1

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One of the reasons for that is the fact that it is more cost/time efficient to do that when the large sums of money were won by players, is there a chance that other some other players that won smaller amount of money made it by breaking the casino website TOS? Sure, but depending on how many staff they have or how much money and extra time to put into that it could be just not worth the effort for them.

But I agree with your whole point as it does not look good for a casino website to start investigation only when the big wins happen, but then again I'm pretty sure many of these casino websites are understaffed and they have no other option.

I'd personally have no problem with that if they just have a normal investigation on their users account if for instance their wins goes above $10k, and not long after they unfreeze the account if the user didn't break any rules, but the problem starts when some shady casino websites using that as an excuse to freeze their user accounts for made up reasons, so as long as they are willing to provide you with proof if they claimed that you broke the rules in their TOS, it's fine with me.

MCVXYZ

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

Many online gambling websites create conflicts with their customers when that player wins a big bet. The owner of the gambling website then starts investigating the player's account to see if there is any evidence so that the player's account can be blocked without payment! And they block many accounts without paying the winning money to the players. And the most used reason to block the account is the connected account. For a player this creates frustrating situations.

The biggest question here is, if the gambling website starts investigating that player's account after a big win, then why doesn't the gambling website start the investigation when that player starts losing money? I think a solution to the problem should be found. Because those who are experienced can get their money back by posting on Bitcointalk and various places but there are many inexperienced people who can't tell their problem in the right place so they don't get their money back anymore. So this seems to me to be a big problem for gamblers.

I think the answer is very unfair and disappointing: The conflict of interests. Player wins and not a Casino, Then the managers of untrusted gambling websites start investigating the player's account, but they don't do this if player lose a lot of money. What can player do in this situation? I think nothing,but... So , My advice is to not play websites where you can get just a fear , not money. And we must talk about websites like this.

rodskee

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Quote from: arwin100 on February 16, 2021, 04:55:52 AM

Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

Many online gambling websites create conflicts with their customers when that player wins a big bet. The owner of the gambling website then starts investigating the player's account to see if there is any evidence so that the player's account can be blocked without payment! And they block many accounts without paying the winning money to the players. And the most used reason to block the account is the connected account. For a player this creates frustrating situations.

The biggest question here is, if the gambling website starts investigating that player's account after a big win, then why doesn't the gambling website start the investigation when that player starts losing money? I think a solution to the problem should be found. Because those who are experienced can get their money back by posting on Bitcointalk and various places but there are many inexperienced people who can't tell their problem in the right place so they don't get their money back anymore. So this seems to me to be a big problem for gamblers.

Because they want to know if there's no certain abuse made and want to validate the winner if those wins are clean, that's why expect that and the lucky gambler doesn't need to worry for that since he will get his winning after all verification process has been done.

Please don't extend depending those sites in which the truth is they are intentionally doing this because of their own interests.
They can at least check each account or they can put a early warning if the account created or depositing is questionable but why would they do that? when the deposit is what they really want from us gamblers?

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The only thing they should assure is they only play on legit big casinos so that they will have a high chance to get the winning amount compare to small casino where they can possibly turn the winning gambler down.

That is the total wreck issue in this forum in regards to gambling sites , because this was the option that scammers taking advantage from the players, accusing us violating their TOS while the truth is they have just only Putting Sh!t in our names.

arwin100

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

Many online gambling websites create conflicts with their customers when that player wins a big bet. The owner of the gambling website then starts investigating the player's account to see if there is any evidence so that the player's account can be blocked without payment! And they block many accounts without paying the winning money to the players. And the most used reason to block the account is the connected account. For a player this creates frustrating situations.

The biggest question here is, if the gambling website starts investigating that player's account after a big win, then why doesn't the gambling website start the investigation when that player starts losing money? I think a solution to the problem should be found. Because those who are experienced can get their money back by posting on Bitcointalk and various places but there are many inexperienced people who can't tell their problem in the right place so they don't get their money back anymore. So this seems to me to be a big problem for gamblers.

Because they want to know if there's no certain abuse made and want to validate the winner if those wins are clean, that's why expect that and the lucky gambler doesn't need to worry for that since he will get his winning after all verification process has been done.

The only thing they should assure is they only play on legit big casinos so that they will have a high chance to get the winning amount compare to small casino where they can possibly turn the winning gambler down.

vintages

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It's simply because some of this gambling sites actually don't want to pay the money. Especially if the money is a huge one.
But sometimes, you don't blame this sites because some players may have used cheating methods. I suppose that account which goes under investigation are those with a tiny few loses but numerous winnings.

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

Many online gambling websites create conflicts with their customers when that player wins a big bet. The owner of the gambling website then starts investigating the player's account to see if there is any evidence so that the player's account can be blocked without payment! And they block many accounts without paying the winning money to the players. And the most used reason to block the account is the connected account. For a player this creates frustrating situations.

The biggest question here is, if the gambling website starts investigating that player's account after a big win, then why doesn't the gambling website start the investigation when that player starts losing money? I think a solution to the problem should be found. Because those who are experienced can get their money back by posting on Bitcointalk and various places but there are many inexperienced people who can't tell their problem in the right place so they don't get their money back anymore. So this seems to me to be a big problem for gamblers.

Not all big winnings got investigated by site. Mostly, when i read on scam accusation, there are lot people said their account got locked when they trying to withdraw because they deposit a little amount but win huge amount.

A site obviously don't ever check your account when you lose, since they got your money, so it doesn't make they lose anything. Once you complain on their site, they will give you their ToS and even gambling policy (gamble what you can afford to lose)

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

The biggest question here is, if the gambling website starts investigating that player's account after a big win, then why doesn't the gambling website start the investigation when that player starts losing money

Because if the gambler is losing money in the start, that will be income to the site, so they do not need to investigate the gambler.
If you can win some money, it will not be a problem for them.
But if you win big money, they can investigate your account to know if you are not cheating.
If you pass on their checking, you can withdraw your money without a problem.
No one will let other people get their big money easily, and they will check it and investigate it before people withdraw the money.

imstillthebest

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its because its a big win and why will they investigate a small win when it was not damaging to their bank but if a casino is conscious or paranoid they will monitor every gambler that are playing on their casino . terms of use is created for the gamblers to know if what are dos and donts .

a few casino allow multiple accounts and if your a gambler that uses multi accounts you need to check every casinos terms if you are in a right place . they use multi accounts not for scamming or any frauds but they think they are lucky with switching accounts .

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The question here is WHY would casinos investigate if others lose money? It's like asking them to investigate why their business profits. Same issue if the user wins big. It's called "big" for a reason, and anything that exceeds a certain level would certainly gain the notice of those that track whatever is happening. In the end, casinos are a business, so once something odd or weird happens, they need to investigate. Players losing money? That's a natural. Players winning? Sure that's fine, but players winning it big all of a sudden? Fair or not they gotta see and prove it with their own eyes that it was all fair play.

peter0425

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Obviously they don't wanna Hinder us from depositing as much as we can and this will profit them a lot . because if they will investigate the very moment we created the account and will banned us from violating their TOS then surely income wont come their way.

actually for me ? this is obvious scamming and none are safe from this , because sometimes TOS are not intended to be violated but by nature it happens and gambling sites are taking advantage of their chance to prevent us from claiming wins because of those violations.

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Quote from: Jackl87 on February 15, 2021, 04:49:05 PM

Gambling website are operating to make a profit just like any other company, so it's not a big surprise that they check someones profile after he had a huge successful bet or when he requests a big payout.
Especially if it's a newly registered user and it's his first bet or something. If they investigate an account for no good reason or trying to refuse to pay out money that was won with a legitimately placed bet than that's definitely not ok and illegal.

It is not surprise because they are greedy websites, they do not want the players to really win. Imagine if they let go of someone who made a fortune in their website, the money that the guy is winning is going to be loss for the website so they do everything to make the win suspicious. I disagree about the age of the account, it doesn't really matter whether it is a new one or an old one because this website are doing whatever it takes to not let go of the money. And if the player is suspected of cheating, then those players will do it the subtle way, like winning smaller amounts overtime instead of winning big in just one spin.

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

Many online gambling websites create conflicts with their customers when that player wins a big bet. The owner of the gambling website then starts investigating the player's account to see if there is any evidence so that the player's account can be blocked without payment! And they block many accounts without paying the winning money to the players. And the most used reason to block the account is the connected account. For a player this creates frustrating situations.

Encountered that kind of experience here before shared by others. Others I think are solved and in some cases, the user itself really violated the term, iirc. That's why if there's a case like this, gamblers should not hesitate to post it on the Scam Accusation of the forum for us to see the details.

This is really frustrating as we should not get involved in these investigations once we won big. But as long as I'm playing fair, nothing to worry about. Now to lessen the risks, I will only choose to play at popular sites. I think such problems mostly occur on a not famous site.

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Gambling website are operating to make a profit just like any other company, so it's not a big surprise that they check someones profile after he had a huge successful bet or when he requests a big payout.
Especially if it's a newly registered user and it's his first bet or something. If they investigate an account for no good reason or trying to refuse to pay out money that was won with a legitimately placed bet than that's definitely not ok and illegal.

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Quote from: fullhdpixel on February 15, 2021, 03:57:19 PM

Quote from: 2double0 on February 15, 2021, 02:19:34 PM

# If a player has cheated against them and they have proof for the same like multi-accounting and arbitraging as seen in most cases.

# If the gambling website does not have enough bankroll to pay for that big win to the customer and their intention is also not to pay anything to him/her, they will just block his/her account. Some websites compromise with the customer and pay their deposits, some offer extra over it out of their wins and some do not give anything and are declared bankrupt.

In case they don't have the money they should ask the player to wait and next time make the max win smaller in such a way that they are able to pay the player in case he wins it.

I do not think that any gambler who wins big will lend time to a gambling website to manage funds and pay him because gamblers are more clever than before and they know their good and bad, while the gambling website may run away or declare themselves bankrupt as I said before, then what will the gambler do and where will he go? I think there must be some insurance for these gambling websites which may help them to pay such big wins to customers at the time of bankruptcy.

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 01:57:10 PM

But I think online gambling websites should take some extra steps to detect cheaters, not just target players.

I think they do that's why there are investigations.

Mostly, the requirements are KYC. If the gambler is sure that no fraud-related in their winning, they can easily comply with that.

It's common that when someone attempts to withdraw a big amount, expect that you can get their attention. That's why the suggested withdrawal should be in batches and not a single big one.

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

Many online gambling websites create conflicts with their customers when that player wins a big bet. The owner of the gambling website then starts investigating the player's account to see if there is any evidence so that the player's account can be blocked without payment! And they block many accounts without paying the winning money to the players. And the most used reason to block the account is the connected account. For a player this creates frustrating situations.

The biggest question here is, if the gambling website starts investigating that player's account after a big win, then why doesn't the gambling website start the investigation when that player starts losing money? I think a solution to the problem should be found. Because those who are experienced can get their money back by posting on Bitcointalk and various places but there are many inexperienced people who can't tell their problem in the right place so they don't get their money back anymore. So this seems to me to be a big problem for gamblers.

Basically, they do whatever will make them more profit. If you lose money - it's good for the casino, so why should they bother? If you win - they start searching for whatever reasons not to pay you off. Have you ever been to real-life casinos? If you start winning - the security starts to gather around and murmur something while looking at you, really.
Sometimes they'll bring you free alcohol to get you drunk so that you'll finally leave, or better (for them) - lose all your wins back to the casino.

So it's nothing personal and not even a scam, just business. If the casino has certain rules and you violate them - they have all the rights to ban you. The solution is simple here - don't violate the rules and you'll get your wins.

blockman

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If the gambler is losing, there's no need to investigate because it's favorable to them. And when someone wins huge amounts, it's necessary to take time and investigate and this also happens even in the physical casinos. To see if there's something wrong on their end or if the player has done some suspicious activities just to get the win. If they happen to detect some connection to accounts and it's against to their tos, the player has violated their rules and conditions if they prove it right.

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Quote from: XCANA on February 15, 2021, 02:41:02 PM

Sincerely, most of these investigated gambling accounts are those the gambling platforms find getting through the possibility of utilizing the bug found. Those who found bug early within any gambling platforms do take advantage of this opportunity to cheat the gambling platform, so, whenever there is any big win, the platform tend to investigate the win before approve withdrawal for the winner, but in the same note different from those who loss due to their unfairness.

Anyone exploiting bug should be punished no doubt but problem starts when the site asks you baseless questions when you are not cheating. I remember there used to be a site named as luckybet or something and what they did was quite strange as a player they thought was taking advantage of their system and to counter that they cheated him. Now I understand you should stop and ban any player cheating the system in any ways but what kind of brain is it to cheat him back? That's utter nonsense!

Quote from: 2double0 on February 15, 2021, 02:19:34 PM

# If a player has cheated against them and they have proof for the same like multi-accounting and arbitraging as seen in most cases.

# If the gambling website does not have enough bankroll to pay for that big win to the customer and their intention is also not to pay anything to him/her, they will just block his/her account. Some websites compromise with the customer and pay their deposits, some offer extra over it out of their wins and some do not give anything and are declared bankrupt.

In case they don't have the money they should ask the player to wait and next time make the max win smaller in such a way that they are able to pay the player in case he wins it.

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Quote from: dunfida on February 15, 2021, 02:59:23 PM

Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

-snip-

The answer to this question is to "Stick to those legit gambling sites"

The problem is not sticking to legit gambling websites, but which 'legit gambling sites' do they think are legit and which sites are really legit. Gamblers who play on a website, if freezes or locks their account due to suspicious activity some day, turns out to be a scam for them? With such mentality, almost all gambling sites are scam because websites that stick to their rules can ask you to do KYC even if you only have $22 in your account there but such websites have a reputation and are legit to me. Yes, I talked about the issue of that newbie who started screaming 'Stake Scam' after getting locked out of his account due to suspicious activities.

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Quote from: dunfida on February 15, 2021, 02:59:23 PM

Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

-snip-

~snip~
The answer to this question is to "Stick to those legit gambling sites"

^ That is a perfect answer for this. Stick to the legit gambling site or those gambling sites that operate with a license. There could be another reason for investigating users win a big amount, probably for a good purpose and I think, that is not a big deal because all gambling sites were probably doing this but a fair investigation. For the reason that almost the same scenario when a casino has a technical system failure and the user will probably take advantage of it, and being a business owner you can verify your user activity. Nevertheless, when it comes to a big loss, it is us as a user who also has a right to verify our bets.

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

-snip-

The answer to this question is to "Stick to those legit gambling sites" and you would definitely avoid this kind of problem but only into those normal circumstances but
those legit sites can anytime ask you out if they do see red flags towards your gambling activity so you do always anticipate that thing as a player but if you do make up
some lucky hits purely or in a fair way then theres nothing you should be worried about.Lots of legit gambling sites will pay you off without any issues
or talks or something like that, only shady or new ones will definitely be having this kind of behavior.

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Sincerely, most of these investigated gambling accounts are those the gambling platforms find getting through the possibility of utilizing the bug found. Those who found bug early within any gambling platforms do take advantage of this opportunity to cheat the gambling platform, so, whenever there is any big win, the platform tend to investigate the win before approve withdrawal for the winner, but in the same note different from those who loss due to their unfairness.

2double0

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There can only be two reasons:

# If a player has cheated against them and they have proof for the same like multi-accounting and arbitraging as seen in most cases.

# If the gambling website does not have enough bankroll to pay for that big win to the customer and their intention is also not to pay anything to him/her, they will just block his/her account. Some websites compromise with the customer and pay their deposits, some offer extra over it out of their wins and some do not give anything and are declared bankrupt.

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 01:57:10 PM

~snip~
But I think online gambling websites should take some extra steps to detect cheaters, not just target players.

Exactly, but unfortunately, this is not their practice.

I guess because they know that players are impossible to win big, most likely the casino owner knows that the gamblers are most commonly always a loser. SO, if there's who will win big, it's suspicious to them that I guess they think that there will be a loophole (or a bug) that they were able to win. Investigating is the right way and fair for both parties, that is their right and usually stated on T&C, if you are a gambler and you know that you are doing right, there's nothing that you will afraid of.

ScamViruS

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Quote from: agustina2 on February 15, 2021, 01:29:48 PM

Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

The biggest question here is, if the gambling website starts investigating that player's account after a big win, then why doesn't the gambling website start the investigation when that player starts losing money? I think a solution to the problem should be found. B

Everyone is losing so you are saying they need to investigate all of their players? That's the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. Cheesy

Big winners can be handled manually so they have time on investigating those. And it's no secret that there are big winnings came from either illegal methods, crack, exploit. A gambler should easily pass the required information if there's no cheating.

And mind giving us an example here? What sites are you referring to?

You got it wrong. I want to say that gamblers are constantly losing money and there is no problem in their account. It is doubtful if only the big bet wins. You will not face any problem until you win the big bet. Grin

We have given full rights to the gambling website and then made a deposit. So we have to respect their decision.

But I think online gambling websites should take some extra steps to detect cheaters, not just target players.

acquafredda

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The fact that checks on players start only when they start winning (on some platforms, not all) it is very fishy to say the least.
Strategy is clear: they allow user to sign up and play and if they end up losing, no problem. They can deposit and play anytime.
From the moment they start winning and asking for withdrawals things change.
Let's not forget that some exchanges do the same even if you passed KYC at some point. They will come up with some AML/CTF rules that they need to implement to be safe on their side.

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Quote from: Pmalek on February 15, 2021, 12:14:56 PM

Quote from: Saint-loup on February 15, 2021, 11:30:03 AM

If gains have been won without cheating they should be paid. If the user doesn't respect the ToS he can be banned, but he should be paid if he didn't cheat.

One of the reasons the casinos put the withdrawals on hold is to check if the gambler cheated or tried to abuse a bug or problem with the code to win. They also want to make sure the user isn't using multiple accounts or if he resides in countries that are restricted according to the casino's TOS.

I made this topic a while ago > Which casinos have IP blocks in place for restricted countries
The problem is that if crypto casinos required identity verification the moment players signed up, many gamblers wouldn't play at all. The casinos know this. It still doesn't look good that a player is investigated only when he wants to withdraw money, and then he is told that he breached the TOS by accessing his account from a restricted jurisdiction. I think these things need to be checked at the start of someone's account registration and if you aren't permitted to be there, you should be shown the exit door immediately.

Yes I agree with you. For me acting like that is scammy because when gamblers from restricted areas are caught they don't refund their losses. So at the end there is no problem for accepting their money but there are problems for paying them... it's a losing game.

agustina2

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

The biggest question here is, if the gambling website starts investigating that player's account after a big win, then why doesn't the gambling website start the investigation when that player starts losing money? I think a solution to the problem should be found. B

Everyone is losing so you are saying they need to investigate all of their players? That's the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. Cheesy

Big winners can be handled manually so they have time on investigating those. And it's no secret that there are big winnings came from either illegal methods, crack, exploit. A gambler should easily pass the required information if there's no cheating.

And mind giving us an example here? What sites are you referring to?

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Because everyone is innocent until proven guilty. If you lose money, there is no reason for you to be investigated because you are considered innocent. Grin

They will start checking when they see you win big and how you did it. You only start to become not innocent when your account did win big so they'd start investigating what sort of ballistics you did.

ScamViruS

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I mentioned at the beginning of my post that many online gambling websites do this kind of thing. I did not mention all the websites through this post.

Gambling websites can, of course, investigate every account, after big wins. But when it goes to the extra stage, it feels bad to everyone. Only because that player wins a large amount does he suddenly become a bot account, suddenly asking for different documents! All of these things are frustrating for a gambler. So finding the best gambling website and play on that platform is the most important thing for gamblers.

Quote from: shield132 on February 15, 2021, 12:28:39 PM

Because their aim isn't to stop money laundering. In reality, they use money laundering to benefit themselves (this doesn't apply to all casino). Have you seen any casino that asks for KYC when you deposit money or when you lose money? Do they ask you to KYC in order to admit your lose or otherwise they'll refund the funds? Cheesy

No, they ask KYC because they know that many people aren't willing to submit their KYC documents and sometimes they prefer to leave funds instead of sending these documents. Casinos know that very well and they are becoming "anti-money launderings" once you try to withdraw. Again, it doesn't apply to every casino.

When you win, they suddenly care on money laundering, otherwise who cares if you lose (lost funds are always clean funds for them from their logic and don't require further investigation).

This is beyond the imagination of most gamblers. They want more deposits on their website so they do not block any user while making a deposit. But that shows the real look when that user goes to withdraw. However, some casinos are involved in this type of work, not all casinos do this type of work.

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Due to number of players it will be hard for them to monitor each and everyone, so only when there is a big amount need to withdraw or winning happens that the only time they will put action which is hassle to the players side. That's why as much as possible it's better to diversify where to play or if for winnings it is fine to provide KYC for both parties peace of mind provided that the casino really have a good reputation to keep.

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We know once we are in the online world there is a lot of possible happen so they are investigating those accounts to know if they are reasons behind that why they big wins but if they are not giving after winnings it is not good if the account is innocent or the winnings is natural they really need to give the money because if they hold the winnings without any evidence that is not right.

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Because their aim isn't to stop money laundering. In reality, they use money laundering to benefit themselves (this doesn't apply to all casino). Have you seen any casino that asks for KYC when you deposit money or when you lose money? Do they ask you to KYC in order to admit your lose or otherwise they'll refund the funds? Cheesy

No, they ask KYC because they know that many people aren't willing to submit their KYC documents and sometimes they prefer to leave funds instead of sending these documents. Casinos know that very well and they are becoming "anti-money launderings" once you try to withdraw. Again, it doesn't apply to every casino.

When you win, they suddenly care on money laundering, otherwise who cares if you lose (lost funds are always clean funds for them from their logic and don't require further investigation).

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Quote from: Saint-loup on February 15, 2021, 11:30:03 AM

If gains have been won without cheating they should be paid. If the user doesn't respect the ToS he can be banned, but he should be paid if he didn't cheat.

One of the reasons the casinos put the withdrawals on hold is to check if the gambler cheated or tried to abuse a bug or problem with the code to win. They also want to make sure the user isn't using multiple accounts or if he resides in countries that are restricted according to the casino's TOS.

I made this topic a while ago > Which casinos have IP blocks in place for restricted countries
The problem is that if crypto casinos required identity verification the moment players signed up, many gamblers wouldn't play at all. The casinos know this. It still doesn't look good that a player is investigated only when he wants to withdraw money, and then he is told that he breached the TOS by accessing his account from a restricted jurisdiction. I think these things need to be checked at the start of someone's account registration and if you aren't permitted to be there, you should be shown the exit door immediately.

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

The biggest question here is, if the gambling website starts investigating that player's account after a big win, then why doesn't the gambling website start the investigation when that player starts losing money? I think a solution to the problem should be found.

We all know that these excuses pops up only if you win huge amounts and we have seen multiple complaints regarding that and in my opinion if a user never took advantage of the giveaways and faucets then they should not hang around with the excuse of multiple accounts. There are several sites that checks all their past history just to avoid giving out the money to the winner and you should avoid those sites and i never faced any issues because i never won big in any of these gambling sites.

Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

Because those who are experienced can get their money back by posting on Bitcointalk and various places but there are many inexperienced people who can't tell their problem in the right place so they don't get their money back anymore. So this seems to me to be a big problem for gamblers.

A simple google search will help anyone to understand where to post these complaints and it is not a big problem and it is not about experience, it is just common sense.

Ulven

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You are correct, why the player was not investigated while losing money!!!I think this step taken by the owners of gambling sites is not fair.I haven't really encountered this problem!!We must always choose reliable sites and play fairly without running into these problems.
I think this phenomenon needs a thread that includes sites that might reject our fair win!!To avoid risks.

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

And the most used reason to block the account is the connected account.

Your common reason as to why accounts gets blocked there isn't very clear, would you mind elaborating on it a little or at least making it clear because, i don't really get.

On the topic of discussion, there is no hidden secrete as to why it becomes a thing of concern for gambling sites or platforms to investigate for errors or fowl play within there system when a big win is resulted. They aren't happy to pay! After all, isn't the goal of every business for profit purposes and looking into situations that doesn't profit you is no uncommon culture. So, loosing is profit and it raises no concern to the gaming site or platform because, then, business is good.

The question is, of what impact are you giving to your customers if;
Wins aren't recorded on your platform or gambling site?
What message do you send as a casino or gambling site that looks out for a means not to pay winnings?

It sends the wrong signal to the customers and the result would be a reduced and in the worst case a fold of the site/platform.
Investigating wins isn't abnormal but, using the slightest found reason to discredit a win as a way of denying payment isn't a very good means to stay in business and profit. The long run is what matters more and you cannot always get away with evil.

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

Many online gambling websites create conflicts with their customers when that player wins a big bet. The owner of the gambling website then starts investigating the player's account to see if there is any evidence so that the player's account can be blocked without payment! And they block many accounts without paying the winning money to the players. And the most used reason to block the account is the connected account. For a player this creates frustrating situations.

The biggest question here is, if the gambling website starts investigating that player's account after a big win, then why doesn't the gambling website start the investigation when that player starts losing money? I think a solution to the problem should be found. Because those who are experienced can get their money back by posting on Bitcointalk and various places but there are many inexperienced people who can't tell their problem in the right place so they don't get their money back anymore. So this seems to me to be a big problem for gamblers.

One of the main reason why they are doing this is because they are checking if the account is a bot or a real player, meaning if the account is not using any machine or applications that might help them win or they are checking if the player is playing with their rules and regulations and etc. That's would be the main reason why they are investigating them after winning and also they are investigating because they need to know if the player is the real one who will withdraw the winnings and not other players.

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 15, 2021, 10:10:39 AM

Many online gambling websites create conflicts with their customers when that player wins a big bet. The owner of the gambling website then starts investigating the player's account to see if there is any evidence so that the player's account can be blocked without payment! And they block many accounts without paying the winning money to the players. And the most used reason to block the account is the connected account. For a player this creates frustrating situations.

The biggest question here is, if the gambling website starts investigating that player's account after a big win, then why doesn't the gambling website start the investigation when that player starts losing money? I think a solution to the problem should be found. Because those who are experienced can get their money back by posting on Bitcointalk and various places but there are many inexperienced people who can't tell their problem in the right place so they don't get their money back anymore. So this seems to me to be a big problem for gamblers.

These gambling sites must be outed. Because it's an unfair and unethical practice. If gains have been won without cheating they should be paid. If the user doesn't respect the ToS he can be banned, but he should be paid if he didn't cheat.
Some platforms are obviously more honest than others and I've never heard of this kind of issues on Freebitcoin.

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hmph..

as mentioned, in gambling, it can be said that 90% of a player will lose. If he wins big, then he's will marked as suspicious. Why, in the digital world, manipulation often occurs. In order to ensure this is not experienced by the provider, an investigation must be carried out. Try if there is no investigation, all players who cheating with code injector will get huge profits. If this is the case, then the dev team has the potential to deal with the law in the future.

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It's because losing gamblers are less of an issue to the casino and that's where they get their profits. If you try to compare an investigation between the two, the gambler that's losing feels like a waste of time and effort. There's less incentive to start an investigation on every losing account unless they have a system that lets them notify a link between certain accounts. On the other hand accounts that have big wins are easier for them because it's not that common and I guess not all wins are genuine. I remember that one gambler who won big on bitcasino (there was a thread about it) but I think his win wasn't legit.

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I guess in their point of view there is nothing suspicious when someone is losing money and it doesn't affect their gambling site negatively unlike when someone keeps winning or just hit the jackpot.
and to be honest these kinds of scam accusations could have been prevented if gambling sites actually provide evidence on how they have deemed the accounts connected so the gambler can understand why he was banned or blocked. but then again it is the gambling site's decision whether to share it or not.

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Many online gambling websites create conflicts with their customers when that player wins a big bet. The owner of the gambling website then starts investigating the player's account to see if there is any evidence so that the player's account can be blocked without payment! And they block many accounts without paying the winning money to the players. And the most used reason to block the account is the connected account. For a player this creates frustrating situations.

The biggest question here is, if the gambling website starts investigating that player's account after a big win, then why doesn't the gambling website start the investigation when that player starts losing money? I think a solution to the problem should be found. Because those who are experienced can get their money back by posting on Bitcointalk and various places but there are many inexperienced people who can't tell their problem in the right place so they don't get their money back anymore. So this seems to me to be a big problem for gamblers.

Topic: Why do gambling websites start investigating accounts only after big wins? (Read 362 times)