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Symmetrick

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Quote from: mu_enrico on September 02, 2021, 10:28:02 AM

Maybe you mean binary trading, not margin trading?

I mean what I have. It is margin trading. I don't even want to talk about binary options. This is mostly a scam and you can lose money there even faster than on a margin trade.

Quote from: el kaka22 on September 02, 2021, 01:30:46 PM

However I also understand people who compare them together because margin trading is the most high risk trading there is out there and that usually means that you will have to end up with a lot of losses most of the time, and even the slightest wrong means that you will lose all of your money and it will get liquidated. This is why I believe that we should not be making any judgment over people who think margin trading is like gambling because the high risk is the same, just the rewards are different.

This statement is valid only if you are using large leverage and your price range between the entry point and the liquidation is very narrow, for example ~$5000. It happened that the market passed this distance in less than a day, so liquidation occurs very quickly. But if you have the lowest risk, then it is much more difficult for the market to liquidate you. Because between the entry point and the liquidation level, there can be ~$20 000-$30 000. In this range, you can sit out corrections and temporary dumps. This is exactly what most margin traders fail, namely to wait out temporary market spikes when the market has gone in the wrong direction. Therefore, in such surges, we often see messages about the next amount of liquidations of $7-10 billion.

electronicash

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Quote from: Symmetrick on September 02, 2021, 07:18:01 AM

What assumptions do you have for why many people compare margin trading with gambling and playing roulette?

not roulette but dice.

whichever the category of people in the list, it's the profit that they all are after when they go for margin trading. when a gambler sees trading as binary, it will have no difference between gambling because whichever it is, there is a risk. whether spot or margin trading, the result will just be up or down and there is no need for TA when there is just two option. Grin

milewilda

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Quote from: tvplus006 on September 02, 2021, 05:27:37 PM

Quote from: syedakhlaque on September 02, 2021, 01:59:12 PM

...In margin trading, a person with small money can start a business. ..

No, if a trader does not have a sufficient deposit and uses margin trading, this indicates that he is not a successful trader. It is impossible to become a successful trader by ignoring spot trading. And in the process of learning to trade, you should earn enough capital to move to margin trading, which will be based on risk assessment.

Going directly with margin without making yourself aware nor knowledgeable about spot trading is just suicide.I agree that it is really on that gambling side of things when you do deal with margin or futures
but if you do really have sufficient experience and knowledge in regards with trading then you do have at least chance to make your trades succeed but there are really
people who do really love to play with fire which we cant really stop them though aside from those noobs who had just simply been dragged with hype or have seen
some margin trading profits.

tvplus006

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Quote from: syedakhlaque on September 02, 2021, 01:59:12 PM

...In margin trading, a person with small money can start a business. ..

No, if a trader does not have a sufficient deposit and uses margin trading, this indicates that he is not a successful trader. It is impossible to become a successful trader by ignoring spot trading. And in the process of learning to trade, you should earn enough capital to move to margin trading, which will be based on risk assessment.

Ryker1

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Well, not actually gambling but it's just a sort of that you have a control you own risk. The possible similarities to gambling are just because it can be addictive when you keep hunting for a profit and it could be the same as gambling, you will perhaps be a burden from the debt because of seeking always money because now you are chasing your losses. However, there are too many ways how to avoid this, if you are not lucky enough, don't push your luck to a high close, it is very risky on your part and if you lose, never have it, understand the thing that when a loss is a loss.

Ararbermas

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Both are very risky but when it comes trading all the situation has a solution unless if you're knowledgeable and had enough experience to handle all the risky situation because surely you can win despite of the risk.. Unlike gambling that it's a game of luck wherein you don't have any idea if you will win or not because it's a gamble so you need to play win or lose and you cannot cancel the games once you're in it not the same with trading that anytime you can make changes..

syedakhlaque

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In gambling, The Money of all gamblers gets one person and other persons lose. This is morally not right and illegal in almost all civilized societies. But as a concern to margin trading. It is one kind of modern trading and trading has a great history. In margin trading, a person with small money can start a business. It is art also which demands good experience and study. Everyone can grow business through margin trading.

el kaka22

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I agree that margin trading is not like gambling and there is a big difference of gambling being 100% guaranteed loss due to house edge whereas margin trading could end up with a loss or a win, so at least there is a chance of you keep making a profit on margin trading unlike gambling where that 1% (usually) house edge makes sure that you will always end up losing money.

However I also understand people who compare them together because margin trading is the most high risk trading there is out there and that usually means that you will have to end up with a lot of losses most of the time, and even the slightest wrong means that you will lose all of your money and it will get liquidated. This is why I believe that we should not be making any judgment over people who think margin trading is like gambling because the high risk is the same, just the rewards are different.

sujonali1819

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The main role of comparing between Margin trading and Gambling is the word Risk. Because Most of the people think if you have a high risk to get high profit, or if you have a risk of losing the full fund you are using then it looks like gambling. Maybe for why by thinking the risk people always compare both are same.

mu_enrico

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Maybe you mean binary trading, not margin trading? I don't think margin trading is a gambling (game) since the only difference is the leverage. But binary trading is like a coin flip. However, if the case is about the crazy leverage multiplier such as 100x or 1000x, it then behaves like a binary trading since players don't have the time to react, and the data is too unpredictable for a meaningful prediction.

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Quote from: tvplus006 on September 02, 2021, 10:10:58 AM

The one who does not have his own trading strategy, as well as artificially inflating the risks, can be in the role of a player. In this case, nothing will depend on you to save your deposit, because everything will depend on whether the order was opened in the right direction or not.

Exactly. And if one doesn't understand the markets/charts, doesn't understand (nor show) those indicators and just goes only "by hope" may be fooling himself that he has a strategy, while in fact he doesn't.
@Charles-Tim understood, at least partly, what I meant before (thanks!), but this post covers even more.

tvplus006

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The one who does not have his own trading strategy, as well as artificially inflating the risks, can be in the role of a player. In this case, nothing will depend on you to save your deposit, because everything will depend on whether the order was opened in the right direction or not. And if the market does not go in your direction, then you lose your deposit. And in that case, if you guess the direction of the market, then you break the jackpot, which you completely lose in the next unsuccessful transaction.

The player cannot not only beat the casino, but also in the cryptocurrency market.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: NeuroticFish on September 02, 2021, 07:33:34 AM

doesn't know TA

You don't need a TA to trade successfully. It is a form of analysis, just like graphical analysis or fundamental analysis. Sometimes it is enough to be well oriented in the chart, but all these indicators, moving averages, volume indicators, etc., you do not need and will never be useful. In my 4 years of trading, I have never used TA in my day trading. For a general idea of market movement only.

It is not necessary you know about indicators before you know some TA, I am not disputing the fact that indicators are part of the TA but even studying the candle stick and other charts are also part of the TA, I think that is what NeuroticFish meant, some people could trade without analyzing anything, just as I have some friends like that when they started trading, this kind of trading is totally gambling. Like you, from the way you post, it is clear that you know TA, it is not a must to include indicators, although indicators might be helpful but some traders do not use it and gain if they study the candle stick chart very well with professional monitoring.

Quote from: ?? on ??

---snipped---

With what I have experienced, you are right. Your leverage is also very good, the more the money a trader want to put into trading, the lesser should be the leverage, I mean experienced traders.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: Symmetrick on September 02, 2021, 07:18:01 AM

What assumptions do you have for why many people compare margin trading with gambling and playing roulette?

Some trading are gambling, new traders will always fomo, panic and not have the basic experience and lose, the begining of trading is gambling, that is why just $50 is good for beginners, I mean spot trading.

Even ignorant people called bitcoin to be gambling, so ignorant people can call trading gambling because they have no basic knowledge about what traidng is.

In my opinion, any leverage higher than 5x is gambling, but using no leverage is better, especially if not using stop lose.

Most people lose even in spot trading, only few gain.

Most people believe anything that has high risk of losing money to be gambling.

Data suggesting more than 95% traders are losing

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: Symmetrick on September 02, 2021, 07:18:01 AM

In general, I noticed that several categories of people often use such comparisons:
1 - Not traders at all;
2- Those who have once failed in margin trading;
3 - Very conservative traders;

I did a bit of trading in the past and imho some do even normal trading like gambling. I basically did the same myself until I realized that this is not how to do it and I stopped.
If one has no proper basis, doesn't know TA, doesn't know how to read the charts, and just traded based on the hope that price will go in this or that direction is imho just gambling it.
And I expect this happen also in margin trading. So I think that your list is incomplete.

Symmetrick

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