Why dont BTC hardware manu re release old equip with smaller node. EDIT: heatbit

joniboini

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Quote from: ajaxtempest on April 24, 2023, 06:51:22 AM

500$ for full version and 249$ for shared version.
USE HEAT50 coupon to avail more discount. Shipping in Q4 2023. First come first serve. This was supposed to expire yestarday but it looks like they reset the timer again. THeir twitter page states it was accounced on April 7.

Don't forget the catch that you will share your earnings (if any) with them if you choose the lowest version. I'm not sure how profitable it will be in the end. Btw, this product has been discussed before on this board, you can check it here[1]. Personally, I'm not sold on the idea, so time will tell whether it will be efficient and allows you to earn Bitcoin as effectively as miners or not.

[1] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/funheatbit-is-the-first-space-heater-that-mines-bitcoin-5433246

ajaxtempest

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Looks like my prayers have been answered

Power (if heating by mining only)
300w
Hashrate
Up to 10 TH/s
Mining chips
5nm tech
Power efficiency
as low as 25 J/TH
Conventional heating boost
+ 1000w
Noise at full power
<40dB
Weight
8.8 lbs / 4 kg
Height
18 '' / 46 cm
Diameter
7 ″ / 18 cm
Safety standards
UL / CSA / CE
https://heatbit.com/

Heatbit mini 3 in 1 miner, heater and air purifier!

500$ for full version and 249$ for shared version.
USE HEAT50 coupon to avail more discount. Shipping in Q4 2023. First come first serve. This was supposed to expire yestarday but it looks like they reset the timer again. THeir twitter page states it was accounced on April 7.

hZti

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Magic

Quote from: KiaKia on April 16, 2023, 03:05:11 AM

If you are complaining about the power consumption of an Asic miner it shows that your electricity cost or bill is not cheap, you want some good advice? You should be out of Bitcoin mining instead, use that money you are willing to purchase a lower nm mining machine to buy some Bitcoin and hold it for the long term, you will still make a profit from this too.

It is simply always a cycle. If the power consumption of miners will drop, then the difficulty of bitcoin goes up. This will completely kill the better efficiency and is done on purpose by the bitcoin protocol. To buy bitcoin if you have high electricity costs is actually the best advice you can give.

KiaKia

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If you are complaining about the power consumption of an Asic miner it shows that your electricity cost or bill is not cheap, you want some good advice? You should be out of Bitcoin mining instead, use that money you are willing to purchase a lower nm mining machine to buy some Bitcoin and hold it for the long term, you will still make a profit from this too.

mikeywith

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be constructive or S.T.F.U

Quote from: ajaxtempest on April 10, 2023, 12:32:04 PM

10T\hash @ 700W would be a start.

You can almost achieve that by using the correct firmware and settings on an old S9, so this is pretty doable on S11 and the above models, but anyway, nobody should expect ASIC miner manufacturers to do what's best for them, they will do what's best for themselves, and frankly speaking, I don't see how making a dozen small miners helps with mining decentralization, let's run some random numbers.

Let's say they make a small S19 pro version that does 30th and 1000w, it will need to be more expensive in terms of $/th in the first place but let's ingore that, now let's assume 1 million home miner buys that.

30th*1,000,000 = 30EH, that's not even 10% of the total hashrate, and honestly thinking that 1 million of them will be sold is daydreaming, so there is almost nothing to gain and so much to lose.

philipma1957

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Quote from: Artemis3 on April 14, 2023, 12:43:48 PM

The smaller node is present in the latest models. And they are all targeted at industrial miners. There would be no point in releasing an S9 with S19 chips, you would end with an S19 again.

After the R4 Bitmain has not revisited the idea of a home miner, they simply don't justify the cost. So people do it on their own. Just get a damaged S19 with one working hashboard, and there you have a 1000W miner that should produce about 33TH.

This is nothing like a game console, Bitcoin miners are boring and do the exact same thing, just more efficiently. The S19 is already compatible with the same mining pools, and that's all they care about. The S9 form factor brings nothing to the benefit of mining operations. Curiously (or not, since it was formed by a former Bitmain team) it is MicroBT that has continued this form factor, so you could get one of those instead.

MicroBT repurposed s9 cases with m10 chips.

30th and 1500 watts.

I could talk about this topic a lot.

mining with 1 board s19s set to low power would mean 27th and 700 watts.

The real question is why don’t they build this but how much will it sell for.

Do not think of BTC mining cost or profits.

Think of mining as dollar per watt.

Bitmain thinks of all gear a dollar per watt they do not think that BTC is god and all other coins are shit coins.

Frankly scrypt looks like it will always produce $$ per watt.

I think bitmain attacks btc by not building 1 board s19 space heaters on purpose.
Also they restrict chips to guys like sidehack.

They want big farms to leave BTC for scrypt.

All this is future speculation. say 2056 when btc may struggle and big farms switch to L7s or maybe L 15s.

Artemis3

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The smaller node is present in the latest models. And they are all targeted at industrial miners. There would be no point in releasing an S9 with S19 chips, you would end with an S19 again.

After the R4 Bitmain has not revisited the idea of a home miner, they simply don't justify the cost. So people do it on their own. Just get a damaged S19 with one working hashboard, and there you have a 1000W miner that should produce about 33TH.

This is nothing like a game console, Bitcoin miners are boring and do the exact same thing, just more efficiently. The S19 is already compatible with the same mining pools, and that's all they care about. The S9 form factor brings nothing to the benefit of mining operations. Curiously (or not, since it was formed by a former Bitmain team) it is MicroBT that has continued this form factor, so you could get one of those instead.

TalkativeCoin

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The answer is pretty simple - those "cutting-edge" manufacturing processes are reserved for large-scale operations like the ones that Intel/AMD have for their SKU's, which is what PS and Xbox are based on (AMD).

This is something that's developed for years, with billion of $ poured in, being in the product themselves or the factories that make them. Bottom line, it's not just a turnkey solution that can be repurposed over night, while the ASIC minter manufcatures don't have that kind of resources at hand to take an endeavor like this one.

hZti

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Magic

PlayStation 3 is released again in small NM size since you want to have the functionality of a PlayStation 3 again which a PlayStation 5 for example can not offer. Mining hardware all offers the same functionality so you can simply just use new hardware that already uses a small NM size.

ABCbits

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Quote from: ajaxtempest on April 10, 2023, 12:32:04 PM

I am talking about how sony re releases their playstation console with the same specs but will smaller nm tech and consuming less power.

Why cant Bitmain or others create S9 antminer which is based on 5nm and lets say consume 1/3 of energy compare to the original 16nm s9?

Theoretically they could to that, but they choose to create either new ASIC model or minor modification/improvement of existing ASIC model rather. With your example, it's roughly similar with PS2 to PS3 and PS2 (SCPH-30000) to PS2 (SCPH-35001).

Quote from: ajaxtempest on April 10, 2023, 12:32:04 PM

Right now the manufacturers are catering towards the big boys who can operate farms. To make BTC more decentralised, the old mining hardware should be released with smallertech node.

I doubt it's economically feasible unless they only plan to get rid of their old ASIC. In addition, some effort needed to re-package their ASIC with single board computer (to run node) and make promotion.

joniboini

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Quote from: panganib999 on April 10, 2023, 02:56:54 PM

Possibly because they are barring manufacturers from selling their ASIC miners, no matter how old or new to retail customers. Not outright threatening them or something, but binding these manufacturers in strict contracts that could include a clause that basically says "we will buy all your miners, so don't sell it to anyone" much like what apple is doing with spare iPhone parts and accessories.

Not sure I get it, Bitmain is the manufacturer no? Who would have the power to prevent them from refreshing their older hardware? If I follow your analogy, Bitmain is Apple, while its distributors are Apple's official resellers. I doubt their resellers have a say as to what they should make or sell. Not to mention people have been reselling their ASIC miners on marketplaces for ages. CMIIW.

NotFuzzyWarm

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But another problem here is that materials for old S9 and new antminer will cost almost the same while the difference in their price will be huge.

Along that line, the single most expensive bit of a "s9 mk2" would be the all new photolithography masks needed to respin the chip at the 7 or even 5nm node... When spending several million$ per layer it make zero sense to use older designs.

Now, using the fewer of the current chips to make a <1kw miner - certainly doable but as others have pointed out mfgrs wound have to tack on a hefty 'limited market' $/THs penalty because the of making the housing, controller, etc would be almost the same as it is for the big miners.

Frankly, Sidehack is covering that limited market quite well using BM's s17 chips. I have no doubt that once s19 chips become available in suitable quantities his R909 will be followed by a new version using them Grin

Synchronice

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Quote from: ajaxtempest on April 10, 2023, 12:32:04 PM

Why cant Bitmain or others create S9 antminer which is based on 5nm and lets say consume 1/3 of energy compare to the original 16nm s9?

And what's the point to create another s9 miner that consumes less energy? With free electricity, according to whattomine.com:
S9 E 17Th/s generates $2.14 profit.
S9 SE 16Th/s generates $2.02.
S9j 14.5Th/s generates $1.84.
S9k 13.5Th/s generates $1.72.

I mean, if we keep in mind that someone pays 9 cents per kWh and with 5nm cheap we get that price down to 3 cents, the profit is still very low, isn't it? On aliexpress, S9 models worth briefly $200. If we keep in mind that in order to produce new S9 miners with new 5nm chip, then they have to build and test it, which we can include in expenses. But another problem here is that materials for old S9 and new antminer will cost almost the same while the difference in their price will be huge. They may make more pure profit from new antminer than from old S9.

Quote from: ajaxtempest on April 10, 2023, 12:32:04 PM

Right now the manufacturers are catering towards the big boys who can operate farms. To make BTC more decentralised, the old mining hardware should be released with smallertech node.

It's business, this is my answer. While some people may really want it to be as decentralized as possible, there are some people who want to use this situation for their own benefit, they'll always exist.

dansus021

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I dont know the exact why but the miner manufacturer is profitable by selling the hardware right know maybe why they need launch the smaller one and as far that I know the chip its getting efficient although the mining difficulty is on the rise.

Or maybe what the iwantmyhomepaidwithbtc2 says is true they only care about big miningfarm because they will purchase in big quantity no matter what as long as it is still profitable

panganib999

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Possibly because they are barring manufacturers from selling their ASIC miners, no matter how old or new to retail customers. Not outright threatening them or something, but binding these manufacturers in strict contracts that could include a clause that basically says "we will buy all your miners, so don't sell it to anyone" much like what apple is doing with spare iPhone parts and accessories. Bitmain if this was proven true and is found to be the case as to why manufacturers are not selling older models of miners, are effectively monopolizing a decentralized industry in order to take the profits for their own. No news as of yet of whether they'd start selling older mining rigs with smaller nodes so your best bet is to find a second-hand rig off of eBay or something.

paid2

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Quote from: miguelik on April 10, 2023, 12:42:45 PM

To make BTC more decentralised != To make more money...
A farm will buy thousands of miners at once
Hobby miners 1-10 at once
Much less headache and more money invested in farms

Yeah exactly, Bitmain and other manufacturers just don't care about retails and home-miners.
The target is the professionals who order dozen and hundreds of ASICs.

You can get 10TH/s for about 900w with a Braiinos firmware, at least that's more or less what I get on my R4s (which have similar hashboards to the S9s)

Quote

Apollo and merch have 1-3T\HASH mining hardware but the hardware is not upto the mark and after sales is not that good.

Sidehack, like some other members, is very active on the forum and offers continuous support on its productions.
Personally, I have always been able to find solutions to my problems, with all the Gekkoscience products I have had.
If it's a really desperate case, there is also the Kano server on discord, there is a Gekko section where you can find help for almost all models, it's very reactive.

Quote

Imagine having a S9i @ 13.5T/hash @ 5nm which only consumes 400W backed by a solar power system.

Yeah we all agree, but that's not the goal of Bitmain IMO.

miguelik

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To make BTC more decentralised != To make more money...

A farm will buy thousands of miners at once

Hobby miners 1-10 at once

Much less headache and more money invested in farms

ajaxtempest

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I am talking about how sony re releases their playstation console with the same specs but will smaller nm tech and consuming less power.

Why cant Bitmain or others create S9 antminer which is based on 5nm and lets say consume 1/3 of energy compare to the original 16nm s9?

Watching this interview buy saifedean ammos is very insightful on what the future of mining will be like. Decentralized mining by the avg joe using asic miners which dont take 1K-3KW power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Znc5zkIhk

Right now the manufacturers are catering towards the big boys who can operate farms. To make BTC more decentralised, the old mining hardware should be released with smallertech node.
10T\hash @ 700W would be a start.

Apollo and merch have 1-3T\HASH mining hardware but the hardware is not upto the mark and after sales is not that good.

Imagine having a S9i @ 13.5T/hash @ 5nm which only consumes 400W backed by a solar power system.

EDIT: My prayers have been answered!
https://heatbit.com/

Topic: Why dont BTC hardware manu re release old equip with smaller node. EDIT: heatbit (Read 184 times)