Why exchanges constantly expose you to the risk of losing your capital.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: alyssa85 on April 29, 2019, 02:17:17 PM

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 05:41:18 AM

Does exchanges really don't know how to prevent their users from buying coins 100 times higher by market buy? If chart is that high means that someone bought that high and someone sold that high. That's crazy and so easy to prevent.

In order to prevent that you need market makers, and market makers don't work for free.

The New York Stock Exchange for example licences only a few market makers, who then have the exclusive right to make markets for the stocks listed on the NYSE. But in return they prevent the extreme pumps that you see on crypto exchanges.

Most crypto exchanges don't want to pay for having market makers, and occasionally they'll offer a maker/taker reduction in fees but it isn't enough to compensate the market maker for the risk. So they go without market makers.

Its only about price fixing. Just simply don't open trades at random price (finalizing order by order). Open them with fixed price calculated from all orders that are on market. That's it. Despite market makers on NYSE (and any other regulated stock exchange) you also have build in limitations that holds trades if volatility is too big and opens them when amount of supply and demand is balanced. But I'm not talking about that. That's important during regular trading. I'm talking about first trades after new coin listing.

Polar91

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Quote from: niteroy on April 12, 2019, 03:33:58 AM

I also noticed that after listing at the crypto exchange, coins first have a high price, and then they fall, but this is hardly bounty hunters' fault. Rather, the price of all the coins is manipulated by the exchanges and the teams of those coins that go to the exchange. A team can sell coins cheaply, causing token holders to panic and sell their coins, after which the price drops even lower.

It's not only the team but also it's also because of early investors. As early investors don't see much future of their investment; they tend to sell as early as possible. Meanwhile, bounty hunters or any promoters that receive that token for reward, will get their tokens at longer time compare to investors thus they are not the major/main cause of devaluing of market.

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 05:41:18 AM

Does exchanges really don't know how to prevent their users from buying coins 100 times higher by market buy? If chart is that high means that someone bought that high and someone sold that high. That's crazy and so easy to prevent.

In order to prevent that you need market makers, and market makers don't work for free.

The New York Stock Exchange for example licences only a few market makers, who then have the exclusive right to make markets for the stocks listed on the NYSE. But in return they prevent the extreme pumps that you see on crypto exchanges.

Most crypto exchanges don't want to pay for having market makers, and occasionally they'll offer a maker/taker reduction in fees but it isn't enough to compensate the market maker for the risk. So they go without market makers.

darewaller

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Wow, I have always had the mindset too that they do manipulate in this area, just that I have not seen much proof personally to back up my claim, I am sure those exchanges doing this are also reading this as they have lots of their representatives on the forum too, they will be looking for other means now to cover their secret but it is a good thing that we have smart people too around that will always expose them and proffer solution to their manipulation.

Thanks man, will also yield to this advice too when investing or performing any transaction on these exchanges, and I am sure you have indeed help others too on this forum, keep it up

davinchi

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Quote from: Crypto Girl on April 11, 2019, 03:00:42 AM

Moreover, I agree with the OP and in the contrary that many dump their token, perhaps trading sites isn't the one to point out. I believe as long as the project is solid and good no matter how many people dump their token, the demand will carried out.

Sure, a good product with a valuable product that is high in demand will be able to balance the equation after dumping has been done but we still need to frown at dumping done.

Because, the value also has a way of attracting users too to the product, they might have a good product that is capable of creating high demand, but something must attract the end users to it, which in this case is usually the value of the coin, and this dumping of a thing being blamed on bounty hunters is just a way of distracting people from seeing who the real dumpers are, which I typically agree with what many people has suspected in this forum, that it is the exchanges, all these exchanges too are contributing to the market fall because they buy some of these products internally and then dump it.

jjjfff

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I've been watching the order book on some popular tokens and I see obvious bots placing fake orders.

In one exchange there's a bot that keeps 10 to 20, 5 to 10 BTC size orders open all the time. Soon as the price moves the orders move too, they're always a few % below current price and a few % below the best bids, just to keep the buy wall large but they never actually buy (trade spoofing).

This could be the exchange itself, since a regular person would need a ton of BTC just to open these orders themselves.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: efxtrader on April 12, 2019, 05:05:22 AM

Quote from: niteroy on April 12, 2019, 03:33:58 AM

I also noticed that after listing at the crypto exchange, coins first have a high price, and then they fall, but this is hardly bounty hunters' fault. Rather, the price of all the coins is manipulated by the exchanges and the teams of those coins that go to the exchange. A team can sell coins cheaply, causing token holders to panic and sell their coins, after which the price drops even lower.

I dont think the price manipulated. Like others investor behaviour, they just want to liquid their profits and convert it to others crypto or fiat. I think this is natural and always happen in any market. When the price reach peak, investor realizing the profits.

90% dump in 1 second is normal for you? You don't know what you are talking about than. This peak and dump happened in 1 second after opening trading. Who is that fast to think "hmm i think that it might be my target. I will sell here"

Quote from: meanwords on April 11, 2019, 10:59:06 AM

There's really nothing wrong about it. It was the investors' fault for trading in those prices. It's actually normal in and out of cryptocurrency space so there's nothing to complain about it. Also it's business, as long as they are not doing anything wrong while they are profiting from it, they'll just stay as it is.

They were not trading in those prices. They set market buy order before trade opening. Trading opens at +1000% (because as i write opening price is pure random) and their order was finalized there.

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Quote from: niteroy on April 12, 2019, 03:33:58 AM

I also noticed that after listing at the crypto exchange, coins first have a high price, and then they fall, but this is hardly bounty hunters' fault. Rather, the price of all the coins is manipulated by the exchanges and the teams of those coins that go to the exchange. A team can sell coins cheaply, causing token holders to panic and sell their coins, after which the price drops even lower.

I dont think the price manipulated. Like others investor behaviour, they just want to liquid their profits and convert it to others crypto or fiat. I think this is natural and always happen in any market. When the price reach peak, investor realizing the profits.

niteroy

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I also noticed that after listing at the crypto exchange, coins first have a high price, and then they fall, but this is hardly bounty hunters' fault. Rather, the price of all the coins is manipulated by the exchanges and the teams of those coins that go to the exchange. A team can sell coins cheaply, causing token holders to panic and sell their coins, after which the price drops even lower.

meanwords

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There's really nothing wrong about it. It was the investors' fault for trading in those prices. It's actually normal in and out of cryptocurrency space so there's nothing to complain about it. Also it's business, as long as they are not doing anything wrong while they are profiting from it, they'll just stay as it is.

fiulpro

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But don't you think this is better ?
We do have full responsibility about what we do at the same time we should be given full control about what we do and don't do , they can also make some rules to actually help , but this is really something that won't work.
The main idea of this market is freedom ! That we don't even have with our money , I don't think exchanges should come forward and intervene with the situation , it's us who should think about this , carefully buying and selling is what we can do and that's it !
I don't think we should blame the exchanges for this

It's our fault.

sana54210

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 05:41:18 AM

The only explanation is that they are letting their users to buy coins 100x higher for their own profit. Perhaps they are manipulating with order of orders that way that their coins are being sold on the top of that 1 min candle with 10-100x profit. Avoid creating orders in first 5 min of any listing. You will mostly loss majority of them.

I think you’re right, they all just want to make people lose so they can make their own money. But whatever, we ourselves too have to be careful and know what exchanges to make use of. Some exchanges are not really that reliable and they just look for ways to trick their customers and use them in making money themselves. When we look back to other markets after crypto related exchanges, these kinds of practices are being done for decades and small traders are suffering a lot as exchanges trap them to eat up their capital.

One simple solution must be, along with cryptos, there will be no need to be trading actively like rushing for a coin once it will be getting listed or anything similar to that. Just buy and hold what ever coins/tokens which are satisfying our selection criteria and after months of hold we may achieve what we could do through active trading. Yes, patience is the key and solution here.

Crypto Girl

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Quote from: Zadicar on March 25, 2019, 01:51:23 PM

Quote from: Reid on March 25, 2019, 07:56:55 AM

And that is also why many are selling on the first listing which they thought is the bounty hunters fault.

They should really look into this.
This could also stop the dumps that is happening in exchange for just a little amount of USD. That way the trust to crypto currencies could also be back.
We are losing supporters, better make a way to get them back.

Bounty hunters do always took the blame when it comes to first listing and then the price dumps.
About on the thing you do said,being optimistic to get them back isnt bad but doing it is the most hardest part.

That somehow the reality though if we look thorough, investors are one who first have their token and bounty hunters will just follow, while the allocation just have at least 1% of the total supply, so who really dump?

Moreover, I agree with the OP and in the contrary that many dump their token, perhaps trading sites isn't the one to point out. I believe as long as the project is solid and good no matter how many people dump their token, the demand will carried out.

Kimonoe

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Quote from: Adriano2010 on April 09, 2019, 02:14:44 PM

This also happen on stocks markets, but the exchange don't bind us to invest in a coin, is our choice and we can't be 100% sure that a coin will bring us fast profit, so is our choice where we invest money.

Cryptocurrency trading is how we manage opportunities, with enormous risks, so it is very dangerous for those who are unfamiliar. therefore we learn in theory, and then practice on the market

el kaka22

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The cryptocurrency world has been built upon the idea that we will not have regulations and the free market will decide whats what instead of really relying on the fact that governments do whats "best for the country" and so forth, which means if there is a new listing and people decide to sell it for cheap that means the coin is definitely not worth it and people want the profits and not be part of the project.

Think about it, if a project was so good why would anyone sell it the first second they could? They wouldn't sell it but instead buy more if the project was good, however since most of the projects are bad than the investor just wants to be part of the people who sell early and make a big profit, that's all. There is only one solution and thats not making bad projects.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: webtricks on April 09, 2019, 01:41:44 PM

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 05:41:18 AM

So wheel is already invested. Why exchanges do not apply that? The only explanation is that they are letting their users to buy coins 100x higher for their own profit. Perhaps they are manipulating with order of orders that way that their coins are being sold on the top of that 1 min candle with 10-100x profit. Avoid creating orders in first 5 min of any listing. You will mostly loss majority of them.

The pictures shared by you are of coin listing on Binance. Binance hardly lists any new coin which isn't already trading on any other exchange. Almost all new listing are already trading on other exchanges which could easily be seen from CoinMarketCap. I don't think investors are so dumb that they don't see the existing price of coin before putting buy order on Binance. Only explanation could be price manipulation! Many investors try to create simultaneous buy and sell orders in order to inflate the starting price, then dump their whole holdings and exit the market. It is common practice in unregulated market. There is nothing an exchange could and should do. When the value of cryptocurrencies is non-intrinsic, why does exchange limit it?

That's not price manipulation. When you look on celer you can see that first candle is big red one with small bottom candlewick. It means that first trade was made with price 3000 sat. Every other was made below of that. How to manipulate price to do that? You would have to put huge buy order before trade opening to set fixed price that high but instantly you will be the most scammed person because you will be the only one buying that high. The only explanation of that is that there was no price fixing and exchange fulfil orders order by order matching market buy orders without limit price with x100 sell orders made for fun.

Adriano2010

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This also happen on stocks markets, but the exchange don't bind us to invest in a coin, is our choice and we can't be 100% sure that a coin will bring us fast profit, so is our choice where we invest money.

webtricks

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 05:41:18 AM

So wheel is already invested. Why exchanges do not apply that? The only explanation is that they are letting their users to buy coins 100x higher for their own profit. Perhaps they are manipulating with order of orders that way that their coins are being sold on the top of that 1 min candle with 10-100x profit. Avoid creating orders in first 5 min of any listing. You will mostly loss majority of them.

The pictures shared by you are of coin listing on Binance. Binance hardly lists any new coin which isn't already trading on any other exchange. Almost all new listing are already trading on other exchanges which could easily be seen from CoinMarketCap. I don't think investors are so dumb that they don't see the existing price of coin before putting buy order on Binance. Only explanation could be price manipulation! Many investors try to create simultaneous buy and sell orders in order to inflate the starting price, then dump their whole holdings and exit the market. It is common practice in unregulated market. There is nothing an exchange could and should do. When the value of cryptocurrencies is non-intrinsic, why does exchange limit it?

Siti Nurbaya

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It seems that it returns to the team and also requests, so coins are on the list and unable to compete so we are likely to lose capital. This is the risk that we experience, for this we must be able to see an active team and find ways to maintain its value. That situation keeps us optimistic or makes a decision to throw away.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: Greed Dev on April 09, 2019, 07:08:53 AM

elephants can manipulate prices right on exchange without having to worry about legal issues. therefore, exchange managers do not need to set up an anti-manipulation system.

This is not anti-manipulation system. Thats anty random price buy system. I've explained that.

Quote from: Greed Dev on April 09, 2019, 07:08:53 AM

I know that the stock market has security and offers optimal favor for traders. But in the crypto market, the exchanges work 24/24 and they don't have time to edit.

I'm talking about listing... not regular trading.

Greed Dev

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I know that the stock market has security and offers optimal favor for traders. But in the crypto market, the exchanges work 24/24 and they don't have time to edit. Besides, this is also a decentralized market and all elephants can manipulate prices right on exchange without having to worry about legal issues. therefore, exchange managers do not need to set up an anti-manipulation system.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: davis196 on March 29, 2019, 12:10:13 AM

In order for your theory to work,the exchange must have really low liquidity(low amount of buy/sell orders).
The market buy order should use the average market price of the coin(which is a sum of all buy/sell orders of that particular coin)at that time,not the x100 order of some douchebag. Grin

Anyway,most of the crypto exchanges don't care wether or not their users are losing money due to this bug.You,as a crypto trader,have to know that you are using every crypto trading platform at your own risk.

Listing on binance always create huge amount of orders. I'm talking about trade opening process in which exchange is fulfilling orders order by order instead of with fixed price. Celer listing was crazy. 400% amplitude in first minute. That's not because of low liquidity. Thousands of bitcoin was traded there.

shesheboy

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Quote from: ginobitcoiner on March 29, 2019, 12:10:51 PM

The risk of losing capital is not the fault of the exchanger,

what if the exchange sites is scam ? Isnt it thier fault on why you lost your capital ? Some exchange claims to be that their hack and lost all the funds but users didnt know that it was an inside job .

on the other hand you still got a point because not all exchanges are scam or have been hacked and if ever you loose your funds its obvious that that is already your own fault because you maybe impatient or just lacking of knowledge on what you are doing

ginobitcoiner

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The risk of losing capital is not the fault of the exchanger, I experience trading on several large or small exchanger and from that experience who know that the risk is that other traders make unequal requests and offers, or even sometimes they don't dare to buy tokens because the prospect is not good, and with these conditions your capital is threatened with loss

crwth

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Generally, everyone wants to profit in their ways, including the owners of the exchanges that you included here. I guess if they made it like they only have that coin and they listed it, it's a sure chance that they will profit from those trades, that's how it goes. The exchanges win, and users that try to trade it will lose money. They don't really care too much, and they want the fees. That's my understanding about it though. They are running a business.

davis196

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 06:04:53 AM

Quote from: alisafidel58 on March 25, 2019, 06:03:32 AM

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 05:54:07 AM

Its not limiting. Its letting them buy coin at opening with accurate price instead of random price.

Have you ever heard of "Pump and Dump"? On newly listed coin? If you manage to hear it then that's the answer.

Its not pump and dump. Its finalizing orders order by order instead of with fixed price set by traders during fixing (like on stock market). You know how its done now?
1- Exchange opens setting orders
2- first user create sell order at x100 just for fun
3- second user create market buy order
4- third user create sell order at x1.2 for small profit
5 - fourth user created market buy order (0.01 sec after guy from point 3)
6- ......
n - n user created sell order at 0.8 of last price on other exchange
There are n-1 orders on market. And they hanging for moment that exchange will open trades.

Then exchange opens trading and is finalizing orders order by order. Means that guy from point 3 will buy with 100x price (because that the only wall that is on market that his buy order can hit in) and guy who made exactly same order type 0.01 sec after will buy at x1.2 price (because currently that's the lowest price available). That's ok for you? Or that's the stupidest way to open trades during listing and its done like that only to scam users.

In order for your theory to work,the exchange must have really low liquidity(low amount of buy/sell orders).
The market buy order should use the average market price of the coin(which is a sum of all buy/sell orders of that particular coin)at that time,not the x100 order of some douchebag. Grin

Anyway,most of the crypto exchanges don't care wether or not their users are losing money due to this bug.You,as a crypto trader,have to know that you are using every crypto trading platform at your own risk.

michellee

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Quote from: breathlessz on March 28, 2019, 02:33:00 AM

Quote from: Crypdon on March 27, 2019, 12:44:16 PM

crypto is a fast moving industry. A new announcement could send the price of a coin rocketing to the moon. Imagine when the SEC finally says yes!

right, with the positive news, volatile will be high, and cause the price to move very significantly. and of course this is what traders like very much, because they can make a lot of profit

But unfortunately, if we compare the good news and the bad news, there still too many bad news in out there that is available to make people afraid to invest. The bad news always says about the negativity of investing in crypto and some time was work, people sell their coins because they are scared to get a lose. But in the other time, when people can get another source of the same news, they don't panic and can stay calm while they still trade without any effect.

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Quote from: Crypdon on March 27, 2019, 12:44:16 PM

crypto is a fast moving industry. A new announcement could send the price of a coin rocketing to the moon. Imagine when the SEC finally says yes!

right, with the positive news, volatile will be high, and cause the price to move very significantly. and of course this is what traders like very much, because they can make a lot of profit

rizkyhiw

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Quote from: Beerwizzard on March 27, 2019, 05:34:28 AM

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 27, 2019, 03:30:17 AM

How much will exchange lose by implementing price fixing during coin listing? Volume of first minute of trading was equal to 6000 BTC. I bet that all trades with more than x2 price of 10 min average (2x 700 sat), that would not be fulfilled was less than 1000 btc. Transaction fee with BNB discount is equal to 0.075 % for buyer and same for seller so we have 0.15%. We have 1.5 BTC. Is that really that much for binance compared with evident give a f... about customers?

That's not really much for them but why should they care while they already a top #1 exchange? Being first and having a good volume is already passively brings them a lot of traders.

Quote from: hugeblack on March 26, 2019, 11:40:21 AM

Exchanges do not really care about their customers, if true, the number of cryptocurrencies will be less than 100 coins, there is no need to create more than 1000 repeated coins with such financial models copied from each other.

An exchange is just a place to exchange one coin to another one. They list only coins, that will bring them enough volume and which devs will pay more. With a good volume exchange doesn't seem to be interested in picking coins that are unique and have their special usage. But if they will they should probably start trading only BTC.

Yes, I strongly believe that exchanges only provide facilities to everyone in their own way, like it or not we also sometimes need it for the purpose of withdrawing money or whatever, I think they also don't want to know, just they always want to know progress investors and the future progress of crypto by providing very high service to everyone, if when they succeed in protecting all investors there they get added value, whatever it is, so in this situation we are mutually beneficial.

Losses and benefits have become a risk for everyone and how we can handle the problem now, I hope for all exchanges there is no other element that can endanger all parties and it is no longer a secret but it has become a habit that can sometimes make people confused when facing situations like this.

Crypdon

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crypto is a fast moving industry. A new announcement could send the price of a coin rocketing to the moon. Imagine when the SEC finally says yes!

wuvdoll

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I believe those first buys and sells are not really exchanges problem. I mean when you put a new coin on listing there is usually two chances, one is the coin is already listed somewhere else and if you can see the price there you should definitely buy/sell around the same amount, I have seen people buy a coin at around 35 cents when it was listed at 16-17 cents somewhere else already, those people who buy and sell could either be bots or volume bots of the exchange and that is why it should not be cared but even if they are traders than its their own fault to buy and sell at those levels, normally thanks to arbitrage the price should be fixed to the equal numbers after a while. That is why I think the first moments are just out of exchanges hands if you ask me.

gowobonyok

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still all of that will depend on investors or traders who go there to increase the purchase volume and then the graph increases, even in the early minutes. and how can the exchange party prevent it? and it will certainly continue, whether the volume will increase or decrease.

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 27, 2019, 03:30:17 AM

How much will exchange lose by implementing price fixing during coin listing? Volume of first minute of trading was equal to 6000 BTC. I bet that all trades with more than x2 price of 10 min average (2x 700 sat), that would not be fulfilled was less than 1000 btc. Transaction fee with BNB discount is equal to 0.075 % for buyer and same for seller so we have 0.15%. We have 1.5 BTC. Is that really that much for binance compared with evident give a f... about customers?

That's not really much for them but why should they care while they already a top #1 exchange? Being first and having a good volume is already passively brings them a lot of traders.

Quote from: hugeblack on March 26, 2019, 11:40:21 AM

Exchanges do not really care about their customers, if true, the number of cryptocurrencies will be less than 100 coins, there is no need to create more than 1000 repeated coins with such financial models copied from each other.

An exchange is just a place to exchange one coin to another one. They list only coins, that will bring them enough volume and which devs will pay more. With a good volume exchange doesn't seem to be interested in picking coins that are unique and have their special usage. But if they will they should probably start trading only BTC.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: magneto on March 27, 2019, 04:10:28 AM

I don't think that this is necessarily an issue.

Traders go into a recently listed asset and know that when it first gets listed, the prices will be artificially inflated for a period of time as the markets adjust to the normal deposit/withdrawals, as well as the hype from the listing quietens down. The volume that is generated at these kinds of prices is most likely very low anyways, because people with some common sense will know that at the beginning, it's as good as a purely speculative token.

I guess they don't know that when they place market buy order without order book fulfilled they might buy coin for 3000 sat instead of 700 sat. If they knew that they won't do that. How they could know what's in order book if order book is not visible before opening trades.

Quote from: magneto on March 27, 2019, 04:10:28 AM

There is nothing the exchange can do to stop this anyhow. They provide the orderbook and the trading engine, and nothing else. They can't manipulate the pricing of the orders, or revert orders from previous instances, because it's not their right or obligation to do so.

Its called price fixing and its happening during every session on stock market. Before opening trades they have orders like:

Code:

sell
999
998
997
995
650
630
600
200
at any price

buy
at any price
850
840
830
820
700
500
200

During fixing exchange calculate crash price at for example 700 sat and fulfill sell orders with 200 600 630 650 sell prices giving custommers even better price (they sold for 700 not 200-650) and 850, 840, 830, 820 and 700 from buy orders (better price too). Rest of orders are waiting in order books and may be fulfilled during trading. Thats how fixing works. Provides best price for custommers while opening trades. Not random how its now.

magneto

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I don't think that this is necessarily an issue.

Traders go into a recently listed asset and know that when it first gets listed, the prices will be artificially inflated for a period of time as the markets adjust to the normal deposit/withdrawals, as well as the hype from the listing quietens down. The volume that is generated at these kinds of prices is most likely very low anyways, because people with some common sense will know that at the beginning, it's as good as a purely speculative token.

There is nothing the exchange can do to stop this anyhow. They provide the orderbook and the trading engine, and nothing else. They can't manipulate the pricing of the orders, or revert orders from previous instances, because it's not their right or obligation to do so.

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Quote from: palle11 on March 26, 2019, 08:24:04 AM

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 26, 2019, 03:34:32 AM

Just the way how exchanges opens trades is random and unhealthy for customers.

Or you think that an exchange that is open for business will restrict numbers of orders so as to have empathy on customers? I don't think they will do that, they will allow customers to express their selves on their decision in making orders. That is my understanding on this.

How much will exchange lose by implementing price fixing during coin listing? Volume of first minute of trading was equal to 6000 BTC. I bet that all trades with more than x2 price of 10 min average (2x 700 sat), that would not be fulfilled was less than 1000 btc. Transaction fee with BNB discount is equal to 0.075 % for buyer and same for seller so we have 0.15%. We have 1.5 BTC. Is that really that much for binance compared with evident give a f... about customers?

Those 1000 btc is even too much. In my opinion with price fixing listing would look more professional and would bring more investors. Also, traders seeing price change during fixing would move their orders to be fulfilled.

Quote from: Lpim01 on March 26, 2019, 08:43:30 AM

Prices may varies with the market demands and also its market volume. It is usually happen that after listing a certain coins will definitely turn down as many will easily sell their coins in low price which it is dragging the price to the bottom.
I also experience like this and it making me to loss my funds at 50% but I do believe isn't the end of my crypto life and still have chances to recover those losses before.

It's not about that. Celer (25.03.2019 binance listing) ICO price was close to 160 sat. Binance opens trades with 3000 sat price because at that price they finalized first trade by finalizing them order by order...
It's not about supply and demand. Its pure random. Read my post:

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 06:04:53 AM

You know how its done now?
...

hugeblack

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Exchanges do not really care about their customers, if true, the number of cryptocurrencies will be less than 100 coins, there is no need to create more than 1000 repeated coins with such financial models copied from each other.

Orders to sell and buy are often controlled to take advantage of the ambition of some people and then scam them to unload the price again.
Do not forget that there are armies of bots that are selling/buying in models make the loss a huge loss.

Also, the market operates 24/7 making the opportunity to manipulate between platforms "South Korean and American exchange platforms."

Lpim01

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Prices may varies with the market demands and also its market volume. It is usually happen that after listing a certain coins will definitely turn down as many will easily sell their coins in low price which it is dragging the price to the bottom.
I also experience like this and it making me to loss my funds at 50% but I do believe isn't the end of my crypto life and still have chances to recover those losses before.

palle11

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 26, 2019, 03:34:32 AM

Just the way how exchanges opens trades is random and unhealthy for customers.

Or you think that an exchange that is open for business will restrict numbers of orders so as to have empathy on customers? I don't think they will do that, they will allow customers to express their selves on their decision in making orders. That is my understanding on this.

Tytanowy Janusz

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I'm not talking about first listing after ico. Well that too but I'm mostly talking about any listing. Even if coins was listed on other exchange before. Just the way how exchanges opens trades is random and unhealthy for customers.

Zadicar

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DGbet.fun - Crypto Sportsbook

Quote from: Reid on March 25, 2019, 07:56:55 AM

And that is also why many are selling on the first listing which they thought is the bounty hunters fault.

They should really look into this.
This could also stop the dumps that is happening in exchange for just a little amount of USD. That way the trust to crypto currencies could also be back.
We are losing supporters, better make a way to get them back.

Bounty hunters do always took the blame when it comes to first listing and then the price dumps.

About on the thing you do said,being optimistic to get them back isnt bad but doing it is the most hardest part.

Reid

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And that is also why many are selling on the first listing which they thought is the bounty hunters fault.

They should really look into this.
This could also stop the dumps that is happening in exchange for just a little amount of USD. That way the trust to crypto currencies could also be back.
We are losing supporters, better make a way to get them back.

Xampeuu

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Enterapp Pre-Sale Live - bit.ly/3UrMCWI

right, they gave a warning on the front page. I think this aims to make bitcoiners learn the risks first before deciding to participate in this business, so they don't regret taking the risk later

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 05:54:07 AM

Quote from: Beerwizzard on March 25, 2019, 05:49:00 AM

get some money from fees then they will definetely get it.

They would get fees even with fixing. All trades in first moment after opening will be done at price set during fixing (like on stock market) not with random price as its now.

Right now, without any artificial barriers they have more volume and they are getting fees out of this volume. Any attempt to stop it should cause a volume decrease.

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 05:54:07 AM

Quote from: Beerwizzard on March 25, 2019, 05:49:00 AM

Also crypto exchanges are working 24/7 so it is a bit different from your example.

I'm talking about coins listing not everyday trading on listed coin.

Projects are paying pretty big money to get their coins listed. Also exchanges ask projects to provide "market making activities" and it seems like they don't really care about the way it will work untill they are getting well paid.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: alisafidel58 on March 25, 2019, 06:03:32 AM

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 05:54:07 AM

Its not limiting. Its letting them buy coin at opening with accurate price instead of random price.

Have you ever heard of "Pump and Dump"? On newly listed coin? If you manage to hear it then that's the answer.

Its not pump and dump. Its finalizing orders order by order instead of with fixed price set by traders during fixing (like on stock market). You know how its done now?
1- Exchange opens setting orders
2- first user create sell order at x100 just for fun
3- second user create market buy order
4- third user create sell order at x1.2 for small profit
5 - fourth user created market buy order (0.01 sec after guy from point 3)
6- ......
n - n user created sell order at 0.8 of last price on other exchange
There are n-1 orders on market. And they hanging for moment that exchange will open trades.

Then exchange opens trading and is finalizing orders order by order. Means that guy from point 3 will buy with 100x price (because that the only wall that is on market that his buy order can hit in) and guy who made exactly same order type 0.01 sec after will buy at x1.2 price (because currently that's the lowest price available). That's ok for you? Or that's the stupidest way to open trades during listing and its done like that only to scam users.

alisafidel58

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 05:54:07 AM

Its not limiting. Its letting them buy coin at opening with accurate price instead of random price.

Have you ever heard of "Pump and Dump"? On newly listed coin? If you manage to hear it then that's the answer.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: Beerwizzard on March 25, 2019, 05:49:00 AM

get some money from fees then they will definetely get it.

They would get fees even with fixing. All trades in first moment after opening will be done at price set during fixing (like on stock market) not with random price as its now.

Quote from: Beerwizzard on March 25, 2019, 05:49:00 AM

Also crypto exchanges are working 24/7 so it is a bit different from your example.

I'm talking about coins listing not everyday trading on listed coin.

Quote from: alisafidel58 on March 25, 2019, 05:50:59 AM

I guess that how the market goes and why would exchanges limit their users? Limiting traders is not essential to exchanges. AFAIK there are no exchanges that limit their traders.

Its not limiting. Its letting them buy coin at opening with accurate price instead of random price.

alisafidel58

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I guess that how the market goes and why would exchanges limit their users? Limiting traders is not essential to exchanges. AFAIK there are no exchanges that limit their traders.

Beerwizzard

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 05:41:18 AM

So wheel is already invested.

Ah whose wheels... they are investing in everything!

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 25, 2019, 05:41:18 AM

Why exchanges do not apply that? The only explanation is that they are letting their users to buy coins 100x higher for their own profit. Perhaps they are manipulating with order of orders that way that their coins are being sold on the top of that 1 min candle with 10-100x profit. Avoid creating orders in first 5 min of any listing. You will mostly loss majority of them.

Well, you know the main answer. Crypto exchanges are not that regulated as traditional ones so if they have a chance to get some money from fees then they will definetely get it.
Also crypto exchanges are working 24/7 so it is a bit different from your example.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Almost every listing looks like that:

Those spikes on first candle in most cases happens in first 1 min - 5 min. Does exchanges really don't know how to prevent their users from buying coins 100 times higher by market buy? If chart is that high means that someone bought that high and someone sold that high. That's crazy and so easy to prevent. None need to invent wheel. All they need to do is go and take a look how every day starts on regular assets on stock markets. To prevent that situation every day starts with 30 - 120 min fixing (up to exchange). (f.e. 120 min is for New York Stock Exchange)

Fixing (source: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/091113/auction-method-how-nyse-stock-prices-are-set.asp):
The Opening Auction
While the NYSE’s official market opening time is 9:30 a.m. EST, orders to buy and sell securities can be entered as early as 7:30 a.m. In particular, the two types of orders that are accepted before the market officially opens are Market on Open (MOO) and Limit on Open (LOO). MOO orders seek to purchase shares at the current market price at the time the market opens. LOO orders seek to purchase a specific number of shares at a specific price when the market opens. If the requested price is not met, the trade does not take place.

The first data stream of the new trading day includes a reference price for each security. This price generally matches the previous night’s closing price. The data stream also includes data regarding the current imbalance between buy and sell orders and prices. By publishing this data, NYSE gives traders the opportunity to adjust their trades in order to match up buy and sell orders.

Data is published every five minutes until 9:00 a.m. From 9:00 a.m. until 9:20 a.m., it is published at one-minute intervals. For the final ten minutes prior to the market open, the data is published every 15 seconds. Beginning at 9:28, the likely opening price for each security is added to the published date stream. Orders placed between 9:28 a.m. and 9:35 a.m. cannot be canceled.

So wheel is already invested. Why exchanges do not apply that? The only explanation is that they are letting their users to buy coins 100x higher for their own profit. Perhaps they are manipulating with order of orders that way that their coins are being sold on the top of that 1 min candle with 10-100x profit. Avoid creating orders in first 5 min of any listing. You will mostly loss majority of them.

Topic: Why exchanges constantly expose you to the risk of losing your capital. (Read 730 times)