Topic: Why is bitcoin regaining dominance? (Read 627 times)

Quote from: jhongzjhong on August 17, 2018, 04:10:55 AM

By the way, I think we could get a better measure for a coin's "popularity" or "value" than "market cap" if we try to measure its transaction activity. Probably Bitcoin's "dominance" would be much higher. Coinfairvalue tries something like that, but has some pretty strange valuations ...

Do you mean trading volume? It doesn’t seem to be a bad idea. That’s usually done with stocks.

Sorry, just saw your answer.

Trading volume has advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is that it provides a measure for "activity" on markets, and as you say, it's used in other asset classes.

But there are some important drawbacks. The first one is - how to really measure it reliably? Yes, one could compile a list of markets like Coinmarketcap does. But there are several problems with this approach:

1) You'll never be able to catch the "total" volume, as there will always exchanges you don't have on the radar,
2) OTC trading (Localbitcoins ...) and on-chain markets (BarterDEX ...) are usually ignored
3) Fake volume is difficult to detect.

Because of these reasons, trading volume can be only one indicator of a really well-designed "crypto ranking". I know that there are more "holistic" approaches like CoinGecko, but they often include indicators that are very difficult to measure, like "development activity".

Maybe a relative simple index based on the triad "transaction volume in USD + market cap + trading volume" could give a relatively good impression of the importance of a coin. I guess Bitcoin dominance in this index would be much higher than at Coinmarketcap.

Yeah the best measurement we could hope to get would come from a combination of all three I think. The volumes are most often faked, as most people know, just to draw in more business. The transaction & trading volumes would hopefully be somewhat relative but it's hard to know for sure.

We can never really know how much money is going through P2P networks like localbitcoins, or even just real P2P. Governments could even be paying for each other's dirty work and we wouldn't ever know. Those transactions can have a major effect but would almost always go unnoticed.

chulos

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A good graph for comparing the share of bitcoin and altcoins trading in the cryptos market. When one goes up, the other goes back and the same goes on the other way. The fact that bitcoin's market share is more than 50% is because bitcoin was and is the first crypto coin in the world. It has the highest value against other coins. If Bitcoin's market dominance helped, it's definitely a good report for all the crypto enthusiasts. However, Bitcoin's price does not grow fast even after several weeks of new, positive internet-based messages. In my opinion, it is because people mostly decide for one crypto and see the future in it. They believe more in bitcoin than everything around him.

Findingnemo

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Literally because the prices of altcoins were falling too much and more over the ethereum is under $300 and all the other cryptos who reached new heights in 2017 are falling because the prices of bitcoin were falling.

But bitcoin dominance it has anything influential in the crypto market?

Tapyaks72

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Quote from: ice18 on August 17, 2018, 04:03:20 AM

And the volume is quite high compared to past few days In my opinion I can see a huge amount of money slowly entering into bitcoin markets everyday from selling on their altcoin or from new investors hoping for another great opportunity this year which is the great bull run that will going to happen soon.

Probably bull run will be coming soon since BER months were coming and expected that cryptocurrency will pump at this time.
Its normal that market price movement swinging and recovered for at least 2 or 3 months from the dip, so, the best thing to do for a while don't look into your wallet, instead be inspired on investing crypto while the market is cheap to buy coins.

As what's speculated there are lots of investment flood into bitcoin, because of what had happened last there was a bull that many wouldn't predicted but as off now we are heading to ber month for sure as expected money will flood to buy Bitcoin, t

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on August 15, 2018, 08:03:07 AM

Quote from: ice18 on August 17, 2018, 04:03:20 AM

By the way, I think we could get a better measure for a coin's "popularity" or "value" than "market cap" if we try to measure its transaction activity. Probably Bitcoin's "dominance" would be much higher. Coinfairvalue tries something like that, but has some pretty strange valuations ...

Do you mean trading volume? It doesn’t seem to be a bad idea. That’s usually done with stocks.

Sorry, just saw your answer.

Trading volume has advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is that it provides a measure for "activity" on markets, and as you say, it's used in other asset classes.

But there are some important drawbacks. The first one is - how to really measure it reliably? Yes, one could compile a list of markets like Coinmarketcap does. But there are several problems with this approach:

1) You'll never be able to catch the "total" volume, as there will always exchanges you don't have on the radar,
2) OTC trading (Localbitcoins ...) and on-chain markets (BarterDEX ...) are usually ignored
3) Fake volume is difficult to detect.

Because of these reasons, trading volume can be only one indicator of a really well-designed "crypto ranking". I know that there are more "holistic" approaches like CoinGecko, but they often include indicators that are very difficult to measure, like "development activity".

Maybe a relative simple index based on the triad "transaction volume in USD + market cap + trading volume" could give a relatively good impression of the importance of a coin. I guess Bitcoin dominance in this index would be much higher than at Coinmarketcap.

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And the volume is quite high compared to past few days In my opinion I can see a huge amount of money slowly entering into bitcoin markets everyday from selling on their altcoin or from new investors hoping for another great opportunity this year which is the great bull run that will going to happen soon.

Probably bull run will be coming soon since BER months were coming and expected that cryptocurrency will pump at this time.
Its normal that market price movement swinging and recovered for at least 2 or 3 months from the dip, so, the best thing to do for a while don't look into your wallet, instead be inspired on investing crypto while the market is cheap to buy coins.

ice18

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And the volume is quite high compared to past few days In my opinion I can see a huge amount of money slowly entering into bitcoin markets everyday from selling on their altcoin or from new investors hoping for another great opportunity this year which is the great bull run that will going to happen soon.

tbterryboy

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Quote from: gabmen on August 15, 2018, 07:35:02 AM

Quote from: sunanbonang on August 15, 2018, 05:26:08 AM

this is because the prices of altcoin, especially ethereum, go down too far. it makes bitcoin dominance back to 50%, more precisely the domination of bitcoin has reached 53%.

Well the market in general is following a downward trend and people may be thinking that btc would be the safest option for now. Considering how much the alts dropped compared to bitcoin.

Bitcoin’s investment is safer than others due to its strong base we feel easy and tension free as we know well about the Bitcoin which also shows low market trend besides high market trend of value so we should not make decision on this. Results are very clear and you will find it easy to invest in the Bitcoin on current cheap price that will be in maximum benefit in bull market.

ablelester

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 14, 2018, 02:11:38 AM

Quote from: fattycoins on August 16, 2018, 08:51:30 AM

Most altcoins are created for a short period for a fast gain. Look at the coinmarketcap site, you will not recognise half of the coins there = fast turn-over. However, a little bit solid altcoins like ethereum and bcash dropped hugely so I think people are escaping to the safest alternative which is bitcoin.

Right! But it is not the "safest alternative", it is the only cryptocurrency to hold in bear markets, or for me, the only cryptocurrency to hold for store of value in any type of market condition. Although, I have a small "investment" in Decred. Hahaha.

Yeah I'm on that boat too. No one likes to hold altcoins for long, it's like sitting on a bomb. They love 'em and leave 'em for short term profits and then move back to bitcoin to protect those profits. And since the altcoin markets are shit right now, everyone's piling on bitcoin. Rightfully so.

After that big bubble, bitcoin has started to look stable and promising. People are coming into it cautiously because they know an opportunity when they see it. Bitcoin will be around for a lot longer because it has those security features.

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it is not a strange coincidence of this kind of events happening.even earlier we had such experiences.it matters because now the fluctuation percentage actually shows a huge sum.i hope soon it would acquire a stable condition with a reliable investment opportunity.

Crypto market never settles for a stable condition,it is always swinging since its invention so if you want to invest on it then you should make the situation best for yourself.Bitcoin dominance keeps increasing but the prices keep deceasing so who cares. Roll Eyes

mostkey

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Public trust is very large with Bitcoin with profits that are considered very cheap now and where many people speculate that the number of altcoins appears everywhere fear of their future will be forgotten because its existence is so lacking that investors who enter will be less likely, Bitcoin is king Coins, the first available in the cryptocurrency world, are no wonder people know him and want it after the hype happened late last year, so some people are waiting for the value of Bitcoin to the lowest point and buying more, the development of Bitcoin is undoubted for the future.

Quote from: Roboabhishek on August 15, 2018, 03:57:06 AM

Quote from: theymos on August 14, 2018, 01:36:11 PM

I strongly suspect that dominance is inversely related to the BTC price, at least when looking at these large price movements in the short-term. So when BTC returns to $7k, I'd expect dominance to drop again. But it would be good/interesting if people are losing faith completely in the particularly worthless alts like XRP.

I don't think people will understand and it will keep getting worse with each new altcoin comes into the market.
The market will keep on dividing as the fools believe every 'X' coin/token will be the bitcoin of 2020. Undecided

It is interesting that many people get stuck in that mind, but it's up to each of them, but that won't apply to altcoin to Bitcoin by 2020, and it must be realized that altcoin often comes and is useless by increasing in the crypto market, there isn't enough the power to center on one alt, it is very difficult for people to see altcoins as uncertainty.

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Quote from: 1Referee on August 15, 2018, 05:17:12 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 16, 2018, 12:59:07 AM

Coinfairvalue tries something like that, but has some pretty strange valuations ...

That site lost my interest instantly the moment I saw BCash's "fair" value is $900 instead of the current $500.

I don't think the page creator is a BCash fan. I guess he's still struggling with the algorithm. In an earlier version, for example, Bitcoin had a much higher valuation and BCash a lower one, but Stellar (if I remember right) had an almost as high "fair market cap" as Bitcoin Cheesy

.

I still haven't totally grasped part of his mechanism, in particular the "basket" concept. I will look into it deeper when I've time.

But would there be no effect on Bitcoin's re-growing dominance if there was enough altcoin "straight to fiat" liquidity? Because most of the altcoins do not have fiat markets, only Bitcoin markets.

I guess the "dominance-boosting" effect would be even stronger - altcoiners (or better: "shitcoiners", as not all altcoins are shit) would directly cash out to fiat and the altcoin price would go even faster near zero, without touching Bitcoin (Bitcoin also can be driven down by altcoin sellers cashing out via Bitcoin).

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How many more banks use Ripple?

Don't know. On their website they list four "testimonials", some of bigger banks like Santander (the German bank I mentioned isn't among them).

cellard

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Quote from: jseverson on August 14, 2018, 03:29:10 AM

Quote from: cryptoasr on August 14, 2018, 01:43:34 AM

I think people are turning their alts into bitcoin in the hope of ETF approval and bitcoin will rise and buy back their alts in much less satoshi than now.

That's pretty dead at the moment. I'm not sure where the optimism comes from.

If people have been dumping their alts (enough for this sea of red anyway) for Bitcoin, Bitcoin price should be surging. Instead, the $6000 support was broken for the first time in I don't even know how long. From those tidbits, one can probably conclude that money is leaving the market that and every coin is doing horribly, with Bitcoin much less so than alts.

The ETH will not get decided until well entered 2019, so there is still some hope in the mind of speculators adn noobs that it will get passed. I mean don't get me wrong, CBOE and SEC have a good relationship, but it actually passing is anotehr different story.

If I had to bet, I would bet that the ETF will not pass anytime soon, it will take years. The good news is, we don't even need an ETF or anything like that to go to the so called moon, it just speeds up the process.

I would like to think people have given up on altcoins, but I think the altcoin bubble will grow to trillions before it crashes and then BTC goes to a couple $million per coin.

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IT IS NOT A STRANGE COINCIDENCE OF THIS KIND OF EVENTS HAPPENING.EVEN EARLIER WE HAD SUCH EXPERIENCES.IT MATTERS BECAUSE NOW THE FLUCTUATION PERCENTAGE ACTUALLY SHOWS A HUGE SUM.I HOPE SOON IT WOULD ACQUIRE A STABLE CONDITION WITH A RELIABLE INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY.

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Quote from: okala on August 14, 2018, 01:38:33 AM

Bitcoin is regaining domination because ethereum and ripple that were doing very well before are now getting dump like never before. Many investors are flipping they holding to bitcoin.

Not only that, all altcoins on exchanges have trading pairs with BTC so selling altcoins always will make Bitcoin fall in a much slower pace. That's at least how I see and understand it.

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Quote from: d5000 on August 15, 2018, 03:57:17 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 15, 2018, 01:52:37 AM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on August 14, 2018, 01:14:22 AM

Altcoins tend to grow in a disproportionate way in the last stages of a Bitcoin bull market.

Would that be because of the misplaced over-confidence by traders that the bull market will go on longer than they thought?

I also interpret it that way. Some traders may think it's only a "dip" in Bitcoin's otherwise bullish performance and try to "hedge", then they see that - caused by this effect - some altcoins temporarily perform much better than Bitcoin, and the domino effect comes in ...

Or maybe it is also their greed and their want to earn more Bitcoins in the middle of feeling over-confident.

Quote

In contrast, in the latter half of the bear market, altcoins tend to crash heavily and lose almost all of their value. Many of them never see their position in the "market cap rankings" again, because in the next cycle usually new altcoins become the "divas" of the moment.

Would that be because of "capitulation" from altcoins? Most of the altcoins cannot be traded to fiat, but only with Bitcoin.

Yes, capitulation and the "new coinz of the block" effect Wink

I believe the real reason are the poor offerings (and perspectives) of the overwhelming majority of altcoins. Most altcoins do not really solve a problem or offer a "killer feature", but are hyped driven by all sorts of promises, and their price is only driven by speculation, not by actual usage. These "hype-coins" disappear after a cycle after lots of traders lose their money, or they become buried by the next hypecoin wave. And I'm not even talking about ICO tokens which are (often) far worse ...

But would there be no effect on Bitcoin's re-growing dominance if there was enough altcoin "straight to fiat" liquidity? Because most of the altcoins do not have fiat markets, only Bitcoin markets.

Quote

XRP, as much as I consider it a centralized coin with a concept that doesn't really make sense, seems to have established itself in the top altcoin positions, just like Ethereum - it's one of the few coins never having fallen out of the Coinmarketcap top 10, since 2013. I think this is related to its banking-oriented ecosystem of users.

What users? Hahaha.

A German bank, for example, used it for cheap remittances to the US. Ripple is one of the few altcoins that see actually some usage, although the big transaction amount is mostly related to irrelevant exchange activities.

How many more banks use Ripple?

justspare

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We passed the 50% mark recently, and if we look at what happens today, almost all alts lose a lot and bitcoin just loses little in comparison.

Is it because when we have a bear market like now, people turn to bitcoin because it is more secure? I think the opposite happened with the bull market last december, people turned to fancy alts because they thought they could hit the next 10× or 100×.

Well, because when bitcoin price drops that is usually people leaving the crypto market in general. Of course there are people who hold altcoins and have zero bitcoins but the main general consensus is people have bitcoin but diversify their portfolio by having other coins. Which means when people are selling bitcoin they already sold their altcoins.

When bitcoin starts to gain some price increase that means money is getting back into bitcoin, however not to altcoins right away. Which causes bitcoin price to go up but altcoins to stay valued however lose value against bitcoin which makes bitcoin get a higher market dominance. We need bitcoin to get more volume and people to have a lot more bitcoin and price to go up and stay up before we see people regaining trust on altcoins and start reinvesting into those.

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Quote from: 1Referee on August 15, 2018, 05:17:12 AM

By the way, I think we could get a better measure for a coin's "popularity" or "value" than "market cap" if we try to measure its transaction activity. Probably Bitcoin's "dominance" would be much higher. Coinfairvalue tries something like that, but has some pretty strange valuations ...

Do you mean trading volume? It doesn’t seem to be a bad idea. That’s usually done with stocks.

That site lost my interest instantly the moment I saw BCash's "fair" value is $900 instead of the current $500.

I’ve been trying to guess how they calculate that “fair” value but bitcoin has more cap, more transactions, and a higher price than shitcoin cash and, however, according to them bitcoin is overvalued and shitcoin cash is undervalued. Can’t see the maths there. Maybe because of the price to earning ration but they are using what's used for stocks and I think it has nothing to do with cryptos.

Anyway, to calculate a “fair” value of a stock, people never use just one ratio and I suppose in the crypto market it should be done the same way.

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Quote from: sunanbonang on August 15, 2018, 05:26:08 AM

this is because the prices of altcoin, especially ethereum, go down too far. it makes bitcoin dominance back to 50%, more precisely the domination of bitcoin has reached 53%.

Well the market in general is following a downward trend and people may be thinking that btc would be the safest option for now. Considering how much the alts dropped compared to bitcoin.

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this is because the prices of altcoin, especially ethereum, go down too far. it makes bitcoin dominance back to 50%, more precisely the domination of bitcoin has reached 53%.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 15, 2018, 01:52:37 AM

By the way, I think we could get a better measure for a coin's "popularity" or "value" than "market cap" if we try to measure its transaction activity. Probably Bitcoin's "dominance" would be much higher. Coinfairvalue tries something like that, but has some pretty strange valuations ...

That site lost my interest instantly the moment I saw BCash's "fair" value is $900 instead of the current $500.

It enjoys way less use, is a coin donated to people for free, is artificially being kept at a certain value to not have miners ditch them and make it easy for malicious entities to attack its network, etc. It's probably safe to say that they aren't really that keen on Bitcoin. Cheesy

It's way more useful to put coins aiming to operate within the same industry each in their own dominance list, which would significantly change things, but since this is a mere noob metric we probably don't need to take it that seriously.

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Quote from: theymos on August 14, 2018, 01:36:11 PM

Altcoins tend to grow in a disproportionate way in the last stages of a Bitcoin bull market.

Would that be because of the misplaced over-confidence by traders that the bull market will go on longer than they thought?

I also interpret it that way. Some traders may think it's only a "dip" in Bitcoin's otherwise bullish performance and try to "hedge", then they see that - caused by this effect - some altcoins temporarily perform much better than Bitcoin, and the domino effect comes in ...

Quote

In contrast, in the latter half of the bear market, altcoins tend to crash heavily and lose almost all of their value. Many of them never see their position in the "market cap rankings" again, because in the next cycle usually new altcoins become the "divas" of the moment.

Would that be because of "capitulation" from altcoins? Most of the altcoins cannot be traded to fiat, but only with Bitcoin.

Yes, capitulation and the "new coinz of the block" effect Wink

I believe the real reason are the poor offerings (and perspectives) of the overwhelming majority of altcoins. Most altcoins do not really solve a problem or offer a "killer feature", but are hyped driven by all sorts of promises, and their price is only driven by speculation, not by actual usage. These "hype-coins" disappear after a cycle after lots of traders lose their money, or they become buried by the next hypecoin wave. And I'm not even talking about ICO tokens which are (often) far worse ...

Quote

XRP, as much as I consider it a centralized coin with a concept that doesn't really make sense, seems to have established itself in the top altcoin positions, just like Ethereum - it's one of the few coins never having fallen out of the Coinmarketcap top 10, since 2013. I think this is related to its banking-oriented ecosystem of users.

What users? Hahaha.

A German bank, for example, used it for cheap remittances to the US. Ripple is one of the few altcoins that see actually some usage, although the big transaction amount is mostly related to irrelevant exchange activities.

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I strongly suspect that dominance is inversely related to the BTC price, at least when looking at these large price movements in the short-term. So when BTC returns to $7k, I'd expect dominance to drop again. But it would be good/interesting if people are losing faith completely in the particularly worthless alts like XRP.

I don't think people will understand and it will keep getting worse with each new altcoin comes into the market.
The market will keep on dividing as the fools believe every 'X' coin/token will be the bitcoin of 2020. Undecided

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Quote from: theymos on August 14, 2018, 01:36:11 PM

I strongly suspect that dominance is inversely related to the BTC price, at least when looking at these large price movements in the short-term. So when BTC returns to $7k, I'd expect dominance to drop again. But it would be good/interesting if people are losing faith completely in the particularly worthless alts like XRP.

According to my observations , the dominance value is not directly related to price, but to the general market situation.

Altcoins tend to grow in a disproportionate way in the last stages of a Bitcoin bull market, and above all when Bitcoin already has hit its high and corrects sharply, and then some traders seem to search "refuge" in altcoins, driving up their price for a very short time (usually days, at most some weeks).

Would that be because of the misplaced over-confidence by traders that the bull market will go on longer than they thought?

I believe it is over-confidence and greed that traders move their Bitcoins to altcoins because take more risks and think that they can make profit more.

Quote

In contrast, in the latter half of the bear market, altcoins tend to crash heavily and lose almost all of their value. Many of them never see their position in the "market cap rankings" again, because in the next cycle usually new altcoins become the "divas" of the moment.

Would that be because of "capitulation" from altcoins? Most of the altcoins cannot be traded to fiat, but only with Bitcoin.

Quote

XRP, as much as I consider it a centralized coin with a concept that doesn't really make sense, seems to have established itself in the top altcoin positions, just like Ethereum - it's one of the few coins never having fallen out of the Coinmarketcap top 10, since 2013. I think this is related to its banking-oriented ecosystem of users. I don't know if that will change eventually and if better, more decentralized competitors could catch up.

What users? Hahaha.

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Quote from: 1Referee on August 14, 2018, 04:39:35 PM

People think the banking deals settled by Ripple the company are similar to banks positioning themselves in XRP the token, but that's not the case. XRP is nothing more than a product without any purpose other than allowing people to move value quickly through its centralized ecosystem. If people like using centralized garbage they can just as easily keep using PayPal, and the best thing of all is that PayPal has no insane premine. Tongue

Exactly that is why I think it's concept doesn't make much sense. If you have no problem with centralization, a client-server architecture is usually cheaper and more efficient than a blockchain.

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Ripple the company, or more precisely said, Brad Garlinghouse and his buddies, own 60% of all the XRP tokens in existence already (they are currently locked up).

You're right, that may actually be the main reason for the "apparent stability" of the XRP rank.

However, as banks (and other users) using the Ripple infrastructure occasionally have to deposit funds in the Ripple ecosystem (and take certain exchange rate risks) when moving funds through it, and even have that may also be a major factor driving up - or at least, stabilizing - its price. Remember that most altcoins also have high premines (up to 100%) held, at best, by a group of whales, but they don't have the ecosystem Ripple can count with.

By the way, I think we could get a better measure for a coin's "popularity" or "value" than "market cap" if we try to measure its transaction activity. Probably Bitcoin's "dominance" would be much higher. Coinfairvalue tries something like that, but has some pretty strange valuations ...

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Quote from: pluMmet on August 14, 2018, 08:46:43 AM

XRP, as much as I consider it a centralized coin with a concept that doesn't really make sense, seems to have established itself in the top altcoin positions, just like Ethereum - it's one of the few coins never having fallen out of the Coinmarketcap top 10, since 2013. I think this is related to its banking-oriented ecosystem of users. I don't know if that will change eventually and if better, more decentralized competitors could catch up.

People think the banking deals settled by Ripple the company are similar to banks positioning themselves in XRP the token, but that's not the case. XRP is nothing more than a product without any purpose other than allowing people to move value quickly through its centralized ecosystem. If people like using centralized garbage they can just as easily keep using PayPal, and the best thing of all is that PayPal has no insane premine. Tongue

Ripple the company, or more precisely said, Brad Garlinghouse and his buddies, own 60% of all the XRP tokens in existence already (they are currently locked up). On top of that they also own the majority of the circulating supply. It could very well be that they literally own like 75% of all the XRP tokens, which means 75 billion of the 100 billion tokens.

XRP on average pushes through trading volumes of around $250 million per day, which is peanuts. Litecoin, which is less than 50% of its size, pushes through the exact same daily trading volumes. Even Ethereum Classic with a $1.1 billion market cap generates more trading volume. XRP is just one big clown show.

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Quote from: theymos on August 14, 2018, 01:36:11 PM

Most altcoins are created for a short period for a fast gain. Look at the coinmarketcap site, you will not recognise half of the coins there = fast turn-over. However, a little bit solid altcoins like ethereum and bcash dropped hugely so I think people are escaping to the safest alternative which is bitcoin.

many have already bought assets with very large capital when bitcoin has very low prices, and the more popular bitcoin is that many believe it and already believe in bitcoin, therefore bitcoin still dominates even though prices are very low.

Because they think that bitcoin was is the safe zone of investing rather than other altcoins, and they switch their altcoin to bitcoin.
The market makes worst in bitcoin price because of the dollar when the trader wants to exit and convert all of the funds he/she had then bitcoin is really affected. That's why bitcoin now is regaining dominance and it was obviously right because altcoin depends on bitcoin price.

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I strongly suspect that dominance is inversely related to the BTC price, at least when looking at these large price movements in the short-term. So when BTC returns to $7k, I'd expect dominance to drop again. But it would be good/interesting if people are losing faith completely in the particularly worthless alts like XRP.

According to my observations , the dominance value is not directly related to price, but to the general market situation.

Altcoins tend to grow in a disproportionate way in the last stages of a Bitcoin bull market, and above all when Bitcoin already has hit its high and corrects sharply, and then some traders seem to search "refuge" in altcoins, driving up their price for a very short time (usually days, at most some weeks).

In contrast, in the latter half of the bear market, altcoins tend to crash heavily and lose almost all of their value. Many of them never see their position in the "market cap rankings" again, because in the next cycle usually new altcoins become the "divas" of the moment.

XRP, as much as I consider it a centralized coin with a concept that doesn't really make sense, seems to have established itself in the top altcoin positions, just like Ethereum - it's one of the few coins never having fallen out of the Coinmarketcap top 10, since 2013. I think this is related to its banking-oriented ecosystem of users. I don't know if that will change eventually and if better, more decentralized competitors could catch up.

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I strongly suspect that dominance is inversely related to the BTC price, at least when looking at these large price movements in the short-term. So when BTC returns to $7k, I'd expect dominance to drop again. But it would be good/interesting if people are losing faith completely in the particularly worthless alts like XRP.

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Quote from: harizen on August 14, 2018, 02:49:34 AM

Most altcoins are created for a short period for a fast gain. Look at the coinmarketcap site, you will not recognise half of the coins there = fast turn-over. However, a little bit solid altcoins like ethereum and bcash dropped hugely so I think people are escaping to the safest alternative which is bitcoin.

many have already bought assets with very large capital when bitcoin has very low prices, and the more popular bitcoin is that many believe it and already believe in bitcoin, therefore bitcoin still dominates even though prices are very low.

frankerstein

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This is happening with the speculations about Bitcoin ETF.

BitHodler

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Back in that wonderful year, it's a wise move to take advantage of high bitcoin price by purchasing other altcoins. Since price movements of some alts are also having a crazy pump, it's way more preferred by others as they can good amount of bitcoin in return withing just a short period of time with the right strategy and trading execution.

It's a gamble either way. People expected that altcoins would rally when Bitcoin's ETF would be rejected or postponed, but it didn't happen. If you bought altcoins with Bitcoin because of that, you would have lost even more.

I am not a trader or speculator myself, but there is nothing better than sitting in fiat during an overall bear market. Some times it's better to not constantly try to time the market, but distance yourself from it instead.

What have people gained by trying to time the market? Most people have only lost money or Bitcoin ratio. Sure, there are certain smart traders knowing how to benefit, but that only concerns like less than 5% of everyone here.

jseverson

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Quote from: 1Referee on August 14, 2018, 04:37:51 AM

Quote from: jseverson on August 14, 2018, 03:29:10 AM

-snip-

Why should Bitcoin be surging?

People converting altcoins to Bitcoin doesn't mean they keep it in Bitcoin.

The guy I replied to was saying that the reason why Bitcoin dominance is growing is because people were moving money from alts to Bitcoin in anticipation of an ETF approval and a presumed bull run. That scenario does mean they keep it in Bitcoin.

I agree with the rest of your statement.

Pursuer

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Where is my ring of blades...

it is because what you are looking at is not dominance. it is market cap. and it is simply a mathematical game that has been played by the altcoins to gain "fake dominance" over the market by having huge supplies.

here is how it works.
a $10 rise in bitcoin price at this point means its market cap going up $170 million
a $10 rise in an altcoin like ethereum means its market cap going up $1010 million
same rise in price means 6 times bigger market cap in an altcoin with a huge supply!

why? because ETH has 100+ million coins in fake circulation while bitcoin has 17 million coins in real circulation. it is multiplication of X and Y where they have increased the Y (supply) of the equation to increase the effects of a pump and that supply is not even in circulation. then you look at that altcoin's fake market cap and think it is really big and bitcoin is losing dominance whereas bitcoin has been dominant all along!

1Referee

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Quote from: jseverson on August 14, 2018, 03:29:10 AM

If people have been dumping their alts (enough for this sea of red anyway) for Bitcoin, Bitcoin price should be surging. Instead, the $6000 support was broken for the first time in I don't even know how long.

Why should Bitcoin be surging?

People converting altcoins to Bitcoin doesn't mean they keep it in Bitcoin. Currently we can see how related altcoin conversions to Bitcoin are as people dump their Bitcoins for USD in order to exit the market. Bitcoin's USD liquidity is what altcoin dumpers are after, because their own USD liquidity is peanuts and can't handle many more dumps.

The price of Bitcoin was below $6000 around 1.5 months ago, so it's not really that long ago.

Quote from: jseverson on August 14, 2018, 03:29:10 AM

From those tidbits, one can probably conclude that money is leaving the market that and every coin is doing horribly, with Bitcoin much less so than alts.

Yes. I have pointed out a while ago that a huge load of USDT was taken out of circulation, but no one even paid any attention because they are too blind or ignorant to see what's going on. Money is indeed leaving.

cryptoasr

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Quote from: jseverson on August 14, 2018, 03:29:10 AM

Quote from: cryptoasr on August 14, 2018, 01:43:34 AM

I think people are turning their alts into bitcoin in the hope of ETF approval and bitcoin will rise and buy back their alts in much less satoshi than now.

That's pretty dead at the moment. I'm not sure where the optimism comes from.

If people have been dumping their alts (enough for this sea of red anyway) for Bitcoin, Bitcoin price should be surging. Instead, the $6000 support was broken for the first time in I don't even know how long. From those tidbits, one can probably conclude that money is leaving the market that and every coin is doing horribly, with Bitcoin much less so than alts.

Though bitcoin is losing value against dollar, in alts case, bitcon's value has increased a lot against alts. It is proved with decreasing satoshi value of alts and also increasing BTC dominance. That why alts are getting double hit. They are losing satoshi value in top of decreasing bitcoin price. Alts are sacrificing themselves. So, I think this has nothing to do with bitcoin's dollar price. When people will sell their dollar for bitcoin then bitcoin's dollar's price will increase, and catalyst for this is much hyped ETF approval. People thinks enough new money will enter the market after ETF approval.

jseverson

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Quote from: cryptoasr on August 14, 2018, 01:43:34 AM

I think people are turning their alts into bitcoin in the hope of ETF approval and bitcoin will rise and buy back their alts in much less satoshi than now.

That's pretty dead at the moment. I'm not sure where the optimism comes from.

If people have been dumping their alts (enough for this sea of red anyway) for Bitcoin, Bitcoin price should be surging. Instead, the $6000 support was broken for the first time in I don't even know how long. From those tidbits, one can probably conclude that money is leaving the market that and every coin is doing horribly, with Bitcoin much less so than alts.

d5000

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Decentralization Maximalist

Several reasons:

Altcoins always tend to be much more volatile, and they exaggerate up- and downswings.
The "dominance" value isn't calculated correctly, as it mixes apples (coins) and oranges (tokens). Tokens are a completely different asset class and intrinsically much more volatile than "coins" which are meant to be used as currencies. Tokens only appeared massively last year, leading to the "dominance" decrease, and now are "back to normal".
Most of "tokens" are worthless crap without any use case. Now that even the most stubborn bull has recognized we are in a bear market, there is not a single reason to hold them.
ETH losing momentum since a couple of weeks - also here, fans are slowly capitulating.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 14, 2018, 02:11:38 AM

But it is not the "safest alternative", it is the only cryptocurrency to hold in bear markets, or for me, the only cryptocurrency to hold for store of value in any type of market condition. Although, I have a small "investment" in Decred. Hahaha.

Decred really seems to be pretty stable (73% down from ATH), maybe its "ticket" system is stabilizing it a bit. Other stable currencies (not tokens):
- ZenCash (-73%)
- Stellar (-77%)
- ETC (-77%)

All others, including Ethereum, lost more than 80% since their ATH.
Source: https://onchainfx.com/

harizen

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on August 14, 2018, 01:14:22 AM

Is it because when we have a bear market like now, people turn to bitcoin because it is more secure?

A good point. Alts are drastically decreasing it's respective price so at least for a "safe" zone, others transfer funds at bitcoin for the moment until crypto market will regain it's dominance.

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on August 14, 2018, 01:14:22 AM

I think the opposite happened with the bull market last december, people turned to fancy alts because they thought they could hit the next 10× or 100×.

Back in that wonderful year, it's a wise move to take advantage of high bitcoin price by purchasing other altcoins. Since price movements of some alts are also having a crazy pump, it's way more preferred by others as they can good amount of bitcoin in return withing just a short period of time with the right strategy and trading execution.

MChain

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on August 14, 2018, 01:14:22 AM

Is it because when we have a bear market like now, people turn to bitcoin because it is more secure? I think the opposite happened with the bull market last december, people turned to fancy alts because they thought they could hit the next 10× or 100×.

Yep, exactly that. When things look grim people tend to switch to less risky assets. Just like when stock markets are in red investors try to move to government issued bonds that yield less but are sure to pay out

tosmartak

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Pull out from alts. Apparently we can all see the rate at which altcoins are dropping pretty fast and how bitcoin is trying to retain the support at around $6000. Altcoins have been known right from time to always be in the pump and dump lane anyway and btc still gets to retain the huge support in the long run. Usually, when dominance is increasing, it shows the possibility of some bullish attempt, but it is still too late to jump into conclusions right now until we get to see what the outcome is going to end up as. Moreover, if you want to be holding for long right now, my best bet would go for bitcoin in the short and long run.

Phenoca

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Quote from: cryptoasr on August 14, 2018, 01:43:34 AM

in the hope of ETF approval

+1

St4yInTh3D4rk

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"STAY IN THE DARK"

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on August 14, 2018, 01:14:22 AM

We passed the 50% mark recently, and if we look at what happens today, almost all alts lose a lot and bitcoin just loses little in comparison.

Is it because when we have a bear market like now, people turn to bitcoin because it is more secure? I think the opposite happened with the bull market last december, people turned to fancy alts because they thought they could hit the next 10× or 100×.

There maybe two reasons for that to happening,last year the price of bitcoin was spiked very rapidly at this time so some investors maybe expecting the same thing to happen so they were converting their altcoins into bitcoins and other reason is that due to make some quick money due to SEC speculations but whatever the prices going down. Sad

Wind_FURY

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