Topic: Why is Meta growing fast but serious discussion and ivory tower dead? (Read 674 times)

Those boards, serious discussion and ivory tower has posting restrictions. You need to be at least a jr member to post in the former and full member in the latter.
I doubt a cryptocurrency novice would rise to that rank (except by airdropped merits). And notwithstanding there are enough legitimate high ranking members to keep discussions alive on those boards.

The problem is the discussions are mot primarily about cryptocurrency it could be as diverse as possible and everyone can not be knowledgeable on every subject.

I believe is like what Jet Cashhas said its all because of signatures & merits but I would like to add also that one of the reasons also maybe is lack of knowledge and confidence because some newbie [not in rank but in knowledge] or other user has lack of knowledge about cryptoworld and thats one of the reason why they are so very afraid of making some discussion or replies in that thread that may result in misinformation that could also result in report or being a spambies [posting or replying nonsense post] ! ^_^  

I would surely do as you suggest, if I'd be seeking "merits" or "rank", but since I've never cared about titles and prizes in real life - guess what? I won't surely start caring about stuff like that in this forum. I've just stated a mere fact.


Mine was just a sort of little philosophical consideration, in no way a concrete proposal, which wouldn't make any sense. And back in the old days (I've first joined this forum almost 5 years ago) this forum was still only a place to discuss and not the huge and noisy bounty signature factory which unfortunatelly is today. As for rewarding people for not being an inconvenience - well, I didn't think it in these terms but I could actually see a point there.

Stick to the meta section and do not go near the alt discussion board if it is merit you seek.

Also align yourself with the views of those of high merit meta hermits and do not question their actions in any way.

Or just not worry about merit or rank if you are not a trader or ico sig user and just enjoy posting.

You still seem to be earning merit, so the posts you do make are will get you there eventually; just not at the same time as the old system.

I disagree with the above statement though, any such mechanism would really just be rewarding people for not being an inconvenience. When someone comes here to learn and attain knowledge they are drawing from the pool which is great that's what the forum purpose is. In doing so though you are not making a contribution at that moment; later on when you use that knowledge or add some of your own is when the contribution is made and merit would be appropriate.

If you continue to do so, rank will not be a issue. Forum allows every member to read and listen with a newbie rank only without the investigation board (member rank is enough for that board too.)

And you said it's impossible to be a Legendary anymore. Well, Ddmrddmr has started with 0 merits and s/he has earned 1200+ merits. LoyceV has earned almost 1300 merits so far.
Maybe in your case, it may take some more time but at the end of the day, 1000 merit is not so much, you don't even need the whole 1000.

This has been my approach from mid 2014 to 2017, just reading and listening to what people have to say without feeling any need of commenting. This is the reason I am not (and with the new rules never will be) a Legendary member.
It's a pity that the forum's ranking mechanics didn't ever find a way to recognize and measure the value of listening vs the one of intervening with comments in most cases unnecessary.

@pugman

I agree with you for sure. I would not usually have even noticed those sub boards or thought it was really the place for a person like myself. However. I really would just like to see the alt discussion board go back to how it was even just a couple of years ago. If that can never happen now It would have been great if all the good old alt posters could just have moved to serious discussion and leave ivory tower for the real smart and serious of course a lot of the old good posters would be quite at home in ivory tower too.

 I don't see why just not having sigs there would prevent most of those going there because most didn't wear sigs or only sigs of projects they liked to support the person other legends running them or projects they had been with for years.  I think maybe most didn't realised it was there or it just didn't get enough persons posting there to build a strong community going.

I think things are getting better anyway so perhaps the alt board will attract most of them back again in the future. Hopefully they didn't all make so much money they just cashed out and lost interest. I don't think that is the reason most of them seemed genuinely so interested and supportive of decentralised, trustless, projects and some had such aspirations to improve and design things themselves.

The old alt discussion board was the most addictive and interesting board I've ever visited with a bunch of very interesting and sometimes extreme characters. Even if you didn't like everything they said or did you couldn't help but be interested in what they would come up with next. Sometimes even just watching 2 very smart people debate/argue is like watching 2 excellent generals in combat and in those arguments there was a lot of information and well described thought streams laid out for people of all levels to gain things from.

That’s true. You don’t get the sig spammers trying to bump all of your topics there to no end either just to flog a dead horse which someone then comes along with more knowledge to resurrect.

I posted above what I think should happen to off topic in order to revolutionaries that board and stop newbie spammers from going to it whenever they need to up their post count.

IT is dead because it requirement of to be "Full member" to post there . Board got restricted to  handful of active poster.
Actually it is restricted discussion board.

"SD" look ambiguous to me,Some of the topic posted there looks like "off topic" to me. But it serve the purpose because nobody is bumping your topic with spammy replies. Your topic can stay in first page for couple of months (nice visibility ).

Yass queen. Description of those board: Such nerdiness, much lame.

Meta is more like the chill out board, and you get to thrash talk to newbs, what else could you possibly want? I mean,don't you not love it when noobs come here and be like "why you BULLY me?"(Definitely not the Rick Astley song).

Honestly, IT and SD boards are BORING!! And humour be dead there, most of the times, and its more serious, and that's what its intended for. I definitely can't do that. Imma let procrastination be my bitch and talk shit to people.

Yes true. As an extension; build some info graphic and 10 merits are almost guaranteed.

Even if the infographic is useless or not good at showing thingsm you’ll still get something for making a chart.

Or maybe because as you can easily get merits by discussing about merits.  Try being a statistician that concerns anything about merits and I assure you that you will get at least 1 merit for you to rank up.

The IT and SD boards still have some traffic because people can get merit there. If no merit was allowed, they would be really dead.

I find meta and the Development boards more serious than those ones, and I don't think it is a problem that people get paid to post there.

Meta is about this site we all love. Serious Discussion and Ivory Tower are rarely even about Bitcoin so nobody cares. Once bad apples in the community started attacking community projects and demonizing innovators, there was little value left here outside of advertising scams for a quick buck. Now we are all desperately trying to find a way to restore an environment that fosters innovation and supports community projects, while others chase Merit as some sort of status symbol because supporting selfless projects and creating things of value here aren’t what they are after. Meta is where we all come together.

Well, topics in meta are fairly easy compared to topics in the serious board (not only about the mentioned board though). Users only need to know about common sense, forum rules, and some descriptive statistics (usually merit related) to engage in conversation here. Furthermore, like JetCash said, signatures can be displayed here.

I've noticed that discussion there is sparce and far between and it can give any a day without any interaction

But also any content there is quality as there is no extra motivation to post except you have in depth knowledge on the topic being discussed.

It maybe paints a picture of what the forum would be without spammers.
Less activity, more quality.

I wouldn't really say the reason is down to merits and signature,as the OP, is actually talking about older members,most old members on the forum have already ranked up and most do not participate in signature campaigns..

I think the reason is down to the fact that meta is like the official court room of the forum,as so many matters,even those that happened on other sections are brought to meta for deliberations and solutions..
Also meta handles issues on how to move the forum forward,hence more threads in meta and more posts

Its simple people would rather moan and complain about issues rather than coming up with solutions and participating in real discussion.

@TP

"Older posters?  I think they've been the ones who've been posting the most in Meta for a long time now.  It's the newbies who've started posting here recently, and they're the ones who are doing so, probably to earn merit."


Posters that have been posting around 3-4yrs or longer who were frequent posters on the alt board before.

This is actually very true. Although since I have spent a few hours now looking over the merit and where and by who it was given/received I can totally understand any new poster from the alt board would realise that he will not earn merit there. Meta seems to be the easiest place to gain merit so they are catching on. Also you have to wonder if after a while the members who want to speak to genuine other members who are looking to discuss and debate cc related topics and they are finding the alt discussion board can no longer sustain this.

The problem with moving all good posters off of the main discussion boards on to boards that are not unusable due to new spammers (whom seem motivated to put lots of effort into creating accounts and spamming for a tiny amount of reward) is that it's seems a strange approach. The the good posters should not need to move. Would have been better to bring back junior boards (noob jails to contain those types) which would have worked instantly and a lot of members would not have left. Then rather than doing lots of negative reporting and snitching on serious and non serious offenders we could just do positive work like meriting new posters until they have enough to post on the main boards.

If we are being serious most people will come here not to discuss how the board should be run but to discuss items specifically related to bitcoin or altcoins. The other sub boards can be of interest to people but I have never seen a forum where the fastest growing and most highly merited (other boards have similar mechanisms) is a forum which discusses these mechanisms.

Merit is being more and more concentrated by the top 200 merit holders and I expect those that have the highest merit scores (except a handful) are receiving it from other top 200 merit holders in the meta section. Whilst that continues and practically nothing is going to the altcoin discussion board you can expect meta to keep expanding and the altcoin board just left with bots and fake discussions from ico spam teams. These are not essentially criticisms of the top merit holders because it is quite clear if the majority of genuine posters have moved here and also a lot of very helpful people are in here too then lots of merit will be concentrated here.

I mean if merit was just started as a nice way to say thanks or appreciate a post then fair enough. To me though it could be such an interesting tool to bring the board back to version of it that is long gone. You will end up with tiny % of the board with 1000's of merit all from the tiny % and the voices of potentially great posters never being heard because they will be drown out by a lot of financially motivated noise.

So yes some it is completely understandable why things are as they are regards merit concentration but great posters will come here and leave because nobody can ever locate them to invite them to meta and are unable to post on serious/ivory. Also you may get a poster that has a lot of interesting knowledge and advice or even very interesting questions that could if answered by a tech boffin give a lot of people a lot of insight come make a post and it just vanishes in the wave of who is best with no justification other than I am part of the spam team or bought some crew.  I have no care about merit if you are a legend you don't have a use for it do you? but it would be great to use it as a tool for good as well as a way of just tipping your hat to other good posters that are already of a level up where merit is of no use.

I am not sure why the junior board idea has not gained more traction. I have seen no logical reason for it not to be implemented. If most want to stay in here sending merit around and around how will anything change on the main discussion boards. The bitcoin board is not so bad since it is kind of self moderated by the fact you meant to keep discussion of other projects to the alt board which is obviously what icos need to do or immediately can have their spam threads moved.

You would expect support of certain projects to be on the alt discussion board. But there is for the most part no discussion it is just I think this one is best with no debate/reasoning or discussion at all and 99% of posters look like they may take the only semi reasonable post and have text spun it. Also multiple threads on the same ico on the front page at the same time all saying the same thing.

In years previous you would get a lot of deeper discussion into the projects with a mixture of knowledgeable (tech wise) posters and others both posting and asking questions. It was actually useful and interesting.

Just be great to have alt discussion back as it was a few years back before ico massacre.

META board is concerned with all forum related information, including inquiry, appeal, suggestions, complaint, and as such it directly concerns every member.
And rightly recieves most attention, the fact that it allows signatures and merits are giving out lots here is also a bonus.

Serious discussion hasn't caught up like I guess it was built to. Maybe cause the daily drama is all too alluring. And both rank limited boards doesn't allow any form of banter.

Neither is Ivory Tower or Serious Discussion. People are mostly discussing ways to better the forum, which obviously belongs in Meta. Discussion about that doesn't really belong in either of those two aforementioned boards. As others have mentioned, the fact that you can get paid to post in Meta is also another factor.

Older posters?  I think they've been the ones who've been posting the most in Meta for a long time now.  It's the newbies who've started posting here recently, and they're the ones who are doing so, probably to earn merit.

As for myself, I've always been interested in the drama and politics of bitcointalk (and of bitcoin in general), which is why I joined bitcointalk in the first place--in addition to the fact that there's very little censorship here in terms of language and ideas.  Many other forums have rules about what you can talk about and how you can express yourself, but bitcointalk is relatively free.  I'm aware of the profanity rule, but it doesn't get enforced (and should get repealed IMO).

Sometimes I post in IT or SD, but a lot of those threads don't interest me, or like suchmoon:
As I've said many times before, there are some brilliant people on bitcointalk who understand crypto, math, and other tech subjects at a level that I'm in awe of.  My contribution would be on the level of a bounty shitposter if I tried to comment in some of those threads.  I do have some economics education, and it's enough for me to make informed comments on some threads, but the Economics section is where I see most of the topics I'm interested in.

Plus, IT and SD are like P&S and Off-Topic for senior members, and I'm not into politics or discussing in most of that sort of stuff.

Following reasons:

1) Members with in-depth knowledge are less in number and thus they post less in serious discussion.

2) Meta is popular because it is an easy way to get merits for some.

I agree that Ivory tower is far to calm. However Serious Discussion has the right frequency of interesting stuff, mixed with some topics that are nice to read on a bear market. I cannot always make an intelligent comment, so I just remain silent and look stupid instead of saying something and confirming it.

I think a lot of people here are also interested in what is happening to the forum itself that is why they are interested in the meta board. I myself is entertained on how newbies are creating threads trying to recover their banned accounts and how other members complain that they got demoted back to newbie ranks and how merit destroyed their life. What JetCash said is true and many members especially the lower ranking ones are trying to make witty poss in the meta section in order to gain some merits which is somehow working for them.

Not only signatures were responsible for this because there are other concerns also that has to be published here. I have followed in this section and you can see most of the open topics were ban appeals and merit discussions threads. Others are doing statistics in the forum that were relevant also for the reference in the update of the forum. This section has wider range for topics to be discussed and that includes the technicals in the forum, forum guidelines and the direct source for admins new change and implementation of a system.

It does not conveys that this growing section is an indicator of something bad for the forum. I do believe that a user could learn so much here. So, in my opinion this is a good indicator that a growing numbers of users in this section will be a help especially to the admins to relay directly things that admin wants to happen. If users will not come to visit here then they will not know the probable mistakes they were doing and will just continue to do it in other sections especially in the SMT. So, for me growing fast in this section is not a problem unless we can sense that most of the replies of the user are just for spamming.

Yes it all comes down to merit and signatures. I can’t say much interesting has gone on around here recently either that’s worth writing about...

At least one of my threads have also started to go on walkies from serious discussion more recently too which is quite funny to think about .

I personally believe off topic should be trashed and we should get a new off topic that is signatureless like serious discussion and ivory tower. Those can then be sub boards of the new off topic board. There is a lack of adoption with serious discussion and Ivory tower which is a shame, because I would like to post there but then I’d end up in jet cash’s position where og claimed he was fishing for merits rather than doing anything productive in there which is a bit off.

TBH I feel quite intimidated by some of the stuff out there

I feel I'm much better off just quietly reading it rather than publicly showing off my stupidity by trying to comment on it.

Agree with Jet Cash. Merit and signature is responsible for that.

Probably because you can display signatures, and you have more chance of gaining merits.

Why have most of the older posters I recognise retreated here to meta and not moved to the ivory tower of serious discussion after being driven from the main discussion boards?

Discussing how the board works is not generally why people visit forums is it?