Why is reference to "bitcointalk.org" triggering a filter in Wikipedia?

Don Pedro Dinero

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1565

The first decentralized crypto betting platform

Quote from: alani123 on May 11, 2018, 09:16:35 AM

Welp, I tried...

The request was declined. The suggestions is saying that in essence if anyone wants to add reference to bitcointalk in any article he'd have to request specific white-listing for that article.

I think I’m going to be the only one disagreeing here but, how can Bitcointalk in its current state be a reliable source?

If it was the Ivory Tower board, I would understand it, but with all the spam going on, I am not surprised. I am sure most forums are on the blacklist, and if there are some in the white list it is because they are low-traffic, very specialized ones.

I find it reasonable that they may accept specific articles.

shahzadafzal

copper member

Activity: 1526

Merit: 2890

Yes like others pointed out, since its an open forum any one can post "shit" here and later link it in Wikipedia as a credible source.

However if you go to Bitcointalk wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcointalk, there is a link to bitcointalk.org, pointing to Satoshi's first post. So if link is present here it should not be banned (note this pages was created very recently 30 January 2018‎). So its possible ban is applicable in certain specific cases, and depends on the page you are editing.

https://imgur.com/tiNyRe9

Quickseller

copper member

Activity: 2996

Merit: 2374

Quote from: theymos on May 11, 2018, 12:24:46 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on May 11, 2018, 10:59:17 AM

I know that Greg maxwell has had runins with the Wikipedia admins in the past

Greg was (maybe still is) a Wikipedia admin. He has good relations with them.

This discussion implies that Greg was at one point close to getting the equivalent of a permaban on Wikipedia. His peers were calling Greg’s behavior “vandalism” and suspected him of using a bit to do what they described as vandalizing pages. I’m not sure if their relationship has subsequently improved or if the incident is in any way related to the issue in the OP.

LeGaulois

copper member

Activity: 2940

Merit: 4101

Top Crypto Casino

Wikipedia is very selective when it's about adding a forum discussion and consider it as a "reliable" source, I don't remember to find any or it was long ago.. Sometimes you can have a better luck to add a link source on wiki page in another language as the people moderating are less strict or lenient. Bitcointalk is banned for a long time now you can thank to 1) the SEO spammers 2) the crapycoins
You can have a better luck to win some bucks in the lottery than getting the domain white listed.
And if a mod lets you add a link from archive.org or archive.is then he is dumb

Quote from: veleten on May 10, 2018, 01:11:42 PM

funny how wikipedia considers bitcointalk a spamming site
while it doesn't hesitate to inundate you with donation requests:

never trusted it as a source of information,anyone can edit it and it has been politically biased on so many cases I cannot count

what is your point?
wikipedia is free and needs huge resources to keep the site alive, such projects often ask for donations. And to tell you people usually prefer to donate some money instead to pay a service

theymos

administrator

Activity: 5222

Merit: 13032

Quote from: alani123 on May 11, 2018, 09:16:35 AM

Welp, I tried...

Thanks for trying.

I think that if one was persistent enough, the blacklisting could probably be overturned. But I don't have time for that.

Quote from: Quickseller on May 11, 2018, 10:59:17 AM

I know that Greg maxwell has had runins with the Wikipedia admins in the past

Greg was (maybe still is) a Wikipedia admin. He has good relations with them.

Quickseller

copper member

Activity: 2996

Merit: 2374

Quote from: TryNinja on May 10, 2018, 12:54:59 PM

That's weird because I can't find "bitcointalk.org" at the Wikipedia's 2007-2016, 2017 or 2018 Spam Blacklist.

And one of the steps to ask for a review is to check the reason why it got blacklisted.

I checked last night and it looks like the bitcointalk.org domain was banned in early 2016 and about 700 links were submitted as of the banning.

I know that Greg maxwell has had runins with the Wikipedia admins in the past, including them describing him harshly, I forget what exactly they said, but there was an incident in which he apparently used multiple sock puppets to make edits to Wikipedia pages after he was banned personally from making edits. Maybe this is somewhat related.

The forum really is not an appropriate source for Wikipedia articles anyway, so anything that is backed up by a forum post should probably be edited out even if there was no ban.

hilariousetc

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 3061

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Quote from: alani123 on May 11, 2018, 09:16:35 AM

I haven't seen instances of bitcointalk being spammed/abused on wikipedia and the fact that it's a forum doesn't mean it's a de facto bad source...

I'd be willing to bet the spamming/abuse was by people submitting their crapcoins and various other scams for pages only citing this forum as a source. Also, this forum probably doesn't count as an acceptable source just like wikipedia usually can't be used as a valid source for writing articles/essays etc. This is why we can't have nice things.

alani123

legendary

Activity: 2422

Merit: 1451

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Welp, I tried...

The request was declined. The suggestions is saying that in essence if anyone wants to add reference to bitcointalk in any article he'd have to request specific white-listing for that article.

I've seen discussion in the whitelist page but I don't know if there'd be any point trying to bring up counter-arguments to the decision. From what I understand, the pages for blacklist removal requests are archived on a monthly basis. Perhaps someone with an account having more prestigious edit history could try next month.

Personally, I don't think the reason given for declining is good. I haven't seen instances of bitcointalk being spammed/abused on wikipedia and the fact that it's a forum doesn't mean it's a de facto bad source... Requiring a request for white-listing every time one'd want to add a reference could deter many editors from adding valuable information in the first place, but it seems like that's willing to be discounted for any potential spam.

theymos

administrator

Activity: 5222

Merit: 13032

This is the first I've heard of it. It seems inappropriate, since bitcointalk.org is the best source for several important things. hilariousandco's theory sounds plausible.

I'd appreciate it if someone would appeal it. Wikipedia is the ultimate bureaucracy, with arcane rules and endless layers of appeals for everything. There's probably some "Request for unblacklisting" process, and if that fails, there will be appeals above that.

Please do not use any "mirror" sites (other than general mirror sites like archive.is), since there are no official mirrors, and the existing ones are likely to be phishing sites in disguise.

veleten

legendary

Activity: 2016

Merit: 1107

funny how wikipedia considers bitcointalk a spamming site
while it doesn't hesitate to inundate you with donation requests:

never trusted it as a source of information,anyone can edit it and it has been politically biased on so many cases I cannot count

alani123

legendary

Activity: 2422

Merit: 1451

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: TryNinja on May 10, 2018, 12:54:59 PM

That's weird because I can't find "bitcointalk.org" at the Wikipedia's 2007-2016, 2017 or 2018 Spam Blacklist.

And one of the steps to ask for a review is to check the reason why it got blacklisted.

I couldn't find it also, which is very weird indeed.

At first I got to think that it might have been my fault for not knowing much about WikiPedia's backend.

TryNinja

legendary

Activity: 2758

Merit: 6830

That's weird because I can't find "bitcointalk.org" at the Wikipedia's 2007-2016, 2017 or 2018 Spam Blacklist.

And one of the steps to ask for a review is to check the reason why it got blacklisted.

alani123

legendary

Activity: 2422

Merit: 1451

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: TryNinja on May 10, 2018, 12:35:12 PM

Quote from: alani123 on May 10, 2018, 11:27:36 AM

What I tried to do was use an archive.org page for bitcointalk.org and it was also not allowed. I assume because of containing "bitcointalk.org" in the URL.

Try to use archive.is (there won't be any mention to bitcointalk in the URL).

That would still be against the rules.

TryNinja

legendary

Activity: 2758

Merit: 6830

Quote from: alani123 on May 10, 2018, 11:27:36 AM

What I tried to do was use an archive.org page for bitcointalk.org and it was also not allowed. I assume because of containing "bitcointalk.org" in the URL.

Try to use archive.is (there won't be any mention to bitcointalk in the URL).

alani123

legendary

Activity: 2422

Merit: 1451

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: InvoKing on May 10, 2018, 08:14:21 AM

Quote from: alani123 on May 10, 2018, 07:39:58 AM

Bitcointalk.org is banned WITHIN Wikipedia. If you try to add a link to the forum as reference when editing any article a message will pop-up saying it's banned. I'll add an image to the OP to make it more clear.

I don't know if this could lead to a ban or not in Wikipedia but if it could be tested and removed after, could you try to put a mirror link for bitcointalk.org (bitcointa.lk for example?) and check if it isn't allowed too? or you can check any other forums or even reddit.com/r/bitcoin.

What I tried to do was use an archive.org page for bitcointalk.org and it was also not allowed. I assume because of containing "bitcointalk.org" in the URL.

hilariousandco

global moderator

Activity: 3990

Merit: 2717

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

There was probably hundreds of shitcoins trying to add themselves wiki pages and using the ANN threads posted on this forum as a source. Or, as above, discussion forums just aren't a valid source.

vlom

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1117

this is indeed an interesting find. i cant understand why this forum is "blocked". but there is a wiki page about the forum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcointalk

the content could be improved. its not much.

and there is a link to this post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.28

Theb

hero member

Activity: 1680

Merit: 655

The good thing about this is Bitcointalk can be removed from the blacklist of Wikipedia as stated in their Blocked External Links page. And if you really want to add Bitcointalk as a source for your edits you must follow this steps as stated in the article, but I do think that a forum admin or moderator has more weight on the request based on the Bold text below.

Quote

Request that a site be removed from the blocked list entirely
If the site is on the meta blocked list, you must make your request at m:talk:Spam blacklist. Requests here will be summarily closed.

If the site is on the local blocked external links list, then add your request here. Please provide the following details:

1. The web address of the site you would like removed from the list (omit the http and www parts)
2. The reason(s) why links to the site should be allowed, and would benefit Wikipedia
3. The article or articles on which the links would be used
4. If you are connected to the site, then please declare this at this point. Failure to do so will, if discovered, be treated negatively.

Also in my opinion I do think that Bitcointalk is blacklisted as it is a forum site (a lot of forum sites are listed on the blacklist of wikipedia) and forum sites tend to have a lot of spam as well as unreliable sources that can't be used as sources (at least that is how Wikipedia views it). Just like why wikipedia is blocking off many blogspot sites as their information tends to be unreliable and is not worthy to become a source.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: alani123 on May 10, 2018, 07:39:58 AM

Bitcointalk.org is banned WITHIN Wikipedia.

The answer can be found on Wikipedia's Spam blacklist:

Code:

# This is a list of domain names which are blocked - nobody can add new links to these domains
# Guidelines:
# - Only blacklist for widespread, unmanageable spam.

Considering the large amount of unmanageable spam on Bitcointalk, I can imagine Wikipedia articles have been spammed with links to this forum too.

InvoKing

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1065

✋(▀Ĺ̯ ▀-͠ )

Quote from: alani123 on May 10, 2018, 07:39:58 AM

Bitcointalk.org is banned WITHIN Wikipedia. If you try to add a link to the forum as reference when editing any article a message will pop-up saying it's banned. I'll add an image to the OP to make it more clear.

I don't know if this could lead to a ban or not in Wikipedia but if it could be tested and removed after, could you try to put a mirror link for bitcointalk.org (bitcointa.lk for example?) and check if it isn't allowed too? or you can check any other forums or even reddit.com/r/bitcoin.

Edit : i am aware that mirrors are phishing sites, what i meant is to see if only bitcointalk.org is blocked or every crypto forums (mirrors or even forum.bitcoin dot com) ofc before seeing the blacklist.

alani123

legendary

Activity: 2422

Merit: 1451

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Bitcointalk.org is banned WITHIN Wikipedia. If you try to add a link to the forum as reference when editing any article a message will pop-up saying it's banned. I'll add an image to the OP to make it more clear.

mdayonliner

copper member

Activity: 630

Merit: 420

We are Bitcoin!

First, wikipedia is not a trusted source for reference coz anyone can edit information so don't take wiki information too seriously.
2nd, we are well off without wiki, wiki is for old school pops Grin

Update:

Click here, if unable to see image

I like it by the way @hilariousetc
It's a round figure Grin

hilariousetc

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 3061

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

What were you trying to edit? Maybe web discussion forums aren't counted valid sources? Anyone could edit their post at any time. I would take it up with wikipedia if you find it unreasonable.

alani123

legendary

Activity: 2422

Merit: 1451

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

It seems as though bitcointalk is banned in wikipedia. Why is that?

It can't be added as a reference or otherwise linked. Edits with that won't go through.
Bitcointalk is a forum where significant announcements were made. Having it banned in wikipedia is quite unreasonable.

I believe that we should do something to change that. Anyone here with knowledge over how Wikipedia works that could provide advice on if there's something to be done?

Topic: Why is reference to "bitcointalk.org" triggering a filter in Wikipedia? (Read 422 times)