Topic: Why PayPal does not like BitCoin sellers? (Read 3117 times)

Because they are the middlemen. Bitcoin want to remove that and I hope you haven't still forgotten about that.

You are right that bitcoin's popularity and user are dramatically increased day by day and paypal see bitcoin as its rival in terms of payment/trading. But there's a big difference between the two.

Bitcoin :

• Exchange rate or fee varies on the market/which service or exchanger you use
• (transaction)Pretty fast on the first couple of years its released but now its slow
• There's no maximum or minimum amount of per transaction
• You can trade Bitcoin or sell it all across country
• Everyone can use it anonymously

Paypal:

• Transaction fee's varies which country you are on
• Paypal exchange rate charges 2.5% currency conversion fee
• Speed of transaction is as soon as next bussiness day
• There's a maximum and minimum amount you can do per transaction
• It needs your banking account/creditcard info/debit before you can transact or send money to anyone

And much more

Bitcoin is risen day by day and it is the major competitors of paypal.For this reason paypal does not like bitcoin sellers.

None of the businesses like competitors. Until 2016/17, Bitcoin was regarded as one of the major competitors of Paypal. And it was quite natural for the PayPal guys to do whatever they could to harass the Bitcoin users. Moreover, Bitcoin is not much favored by the governments. So even if PayPal bans users for Bitcoin trade, the users are not going to get any legal help.

Paypal is in a partnership with Coinbase, letting their users cash out their bitcoin with Paypal. Additionally, behind the scenes, PayPal’s been showing signs of interest in virtual currencies. A recently published patent application from PayPal shows the company has explored integrating bitcoin and other virtual currencies like LiteCoin and Dogecoin into physical smartphone payments. The patent application was filed in December 2015.

The payments giant recently added Wences Casares, CEO of bitcoin wallet Xapo and a renowned bitcoin advocate, to its board of directors in January 2016.

Also, PayPal also held a hackathon in December, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the event. The purpose? To find out new ways for PayPal to use bitcoin and blockchain technology. The attendees included Snapcard, a B2B bitcoin payments company, Coinbase, and Chain. Developers tested things like cross border payments, merchant processing, and creating a digital wallet using bitcoin.

Depending on how well paypal can integrate the lightning network into its structure, Litecoin seems more viable right now but bitcoin will never be really far behind with all the development being poured into the lightning network.

Different things and different concept between bitcoin and paypal. Paypal you can use for online payment, but don't have a investment.
But bitcoin can do online payment, but can do investment in bitcoin. Invest in bitcoin more profitable than gold. So demand and supply in bitcoin is high.
But paypal just only solutions for online payment you can use in worldwide.

That is a very normal way of rivalry in business and also to safe guard from falling.

This is the part of the truth which people do make use of it and would really be forced to pay up those fees according to their own rules and people doesn't have any choice when it comes to online payment and bitcoin would really be a strong competition but checking on its recent issues about fees I would rather stick to paypal for these times.
They are really aware on what are the capabilities of bitcoin which they would really see these things for sure. They might like it or not but bitcoin would really be used as it should be.

Yeah it seems paypal had found the a good competitor, higher charges of paypal is sometimes due to monopoly or lack of competitor, even if they will ask higher service still people opted to pay because of needs, aside from that every services they offered has a corresponding taxes including value added taxes
and the bad things it will be charged to you included in the service payment.

The given experience really wishes to be better. And who knows exactly how the things regarding this are going today?

Simple. Bitcoin sellers are the competition of PayPal in the electronic payment industry. Actually PayPal does not like the concept of the Bitcoin as it is now being uaed worldwide for electronic payment. Unlike before, PayPal dominates the whole electric payment industry in the international setting.

But in local setting, for example here in the Philippines, the competition for electronic payment is a lot bigger. There are companies like gcash, who was actually recently established and 45% owned by Jack Ma, that deals electronic payments in the goods and services purchased.

Although thses electronic payment service companies competes with Bitcoin, Bitcoin has a lot more to offer as it has it's own currency. Bitcoin is the boss of it's own.

I think the problem is that there's so much scamming with Bitcoin. It's really ridiculous how rampant the scamming is. If you try to sell Bitcoin for PayPal there's like a fifty percent chance you're going to get scammed so they want no part if it. It sours people's idea of PayPal. Like, I never had any problem with PayPal until I sold some for PayPal and found out what charge backs and disputes were. I'm not saying Bitcoin is bad, I like it and it has its uses, but it's not really compatible with PayPal.

One of the major reasons for this is bitcoin is their competitor, and if they accept to do business with bitcoin sellers openly they just might lose their paypal product which has taken many years to brand and bring up to where it is today.

I think one other reason they do not like bitcoin sellers its because it is almost impossible to implement the buyer protection which is something that paypal prides itself about.

Its not actually a rival since not all merchants do consider or decided to be adopted on their payment options specially seeing now the current situation regarding on fees and confirmation times. Paypal is confident enough for sure that Bitcoin would just really have its own field than on worrying too much for it to be replaced but well it cant really be avoided for paypal to think up on that way. Lets talk back why paypal doesn't like bitcoin sellers then I would say this is mot likely on personal reasons.

I always think about that that paypal saw bitcoin as a rival to their business model so they would not or will never accept it for any reason whatsoever.
Who knows only time will tell

Really I sell my Bitcoins all the time to Paypal with  my coinbase account and it's less a hassle then with my bank in fact i did a instant sell to paypal a few hours ago.They work properly.

Because paypal and bitcoin have similar functions but in the case of bitcoin transaction costs much cheaper than paypal and bitcoin have more value for example bitcoin can be a very profitable investment, bitcoin also provides convenience in transactions between countries so that paypal feels will be dropped by bitcoin . and it happens the competition between paypal and bitcoin.

If your payment is anonymous you can pay through bitcoin instead of paypal.If someone is asking you for payment through bitcoin than you cannot go for chargeback or refunds.Bank will not be responsible for the payment you made through bitcoin

Obviously because bitcoin is a threat to PayPal .
Since the popularity and value of Bitcoin has risen , it has started affecting the market of many exchanges including PayPal . PayPal is very complicated in terms of attaching your bank details , verifications and so on which makes Bitcoin easy to use and operate without any questions and taxes other than the miner fees .
That is why PayPal may never be able to accept bitcoin as its mode even though that will positively influence PayPal.                       

I support you. But I thought that after the emergence of bitcoin PayPal to splurge. It's amazing that they still exist. Perhaps in this world a lot of people who think otherwise and continue to use their services. After problems with the transaction price of bitcoin will be solved such as PayPal will not.

Because Paypal is run by thieves who will forcefully destroy your financial life when a criminal asks them to back charge you for work you actually did, and can prove  you did; but Paypal doesn’t care… The same isn’t true for BitCoin where that isn’t possible.So, the answer is that Paypal can’t keep up with BTC because BTC is made for truth and clarity; Paypal is just another thieving bank!!!

The reason paypal does not accept payment with bitcoin in my opinion is very reasonable. Paypal is just a tool for payment and accepting payment, NOT FOR INVESTMENT. Whereas if they accept bitcoin as payment, the price already in the peg is fitting but the bitcoin exchange rate is down / up, it will only add to the problem only. Because we know, crypto currency will never stabilize.

Well ebay did create a category named "virtual currency" and some sub category.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Virtual-Currency-Miners-and-Contracts/179197/bn_1650086/i.html

You shouldn't even started with them. Definitely not in p2p fashion. Bitcoin users are always in bad spot when dealing with old school payment processors (credit card, PayPal users)
And I thought that selling cryptocurrency on eBay or PayPal is against their TOS in the first place - as they can't help with any dispute crypto users might have when something will go wrong.

I try to sell BTC and stuff on ebay.

I got like 80% credit card scammer.

So a PayPal case is open, and the real owner of the credit card is refund, and your bitcoin are gone to the scammer.

The think with PayPal is this 180 days protection for the buyer, how a seller can handle to have his money unsure for 6 months !!! This is insane, I'm done with PayPal.

My 2 Cts,

because paypa open feature disputer
after you buy bitcoin use paypal, you can disputre and then your balance paypal can back again
so seller bitcoin not want is lost bitcoin
and paypal not support bitcoin, so you can't appeal

I've been using paypal, if I notice, paypal always follow rules of the government, making it look a lot of rules. I've heard that paypal clients are required to attach the tax report. This we can see that there have been many banks that accept paypal.

This is one of the best answers simply because of PayPals reversal and disputing rules.  For sellers it is a terrible rule and often times we have no recourse, for the buyer it is great.  I am thinking that PayPal backs away from Bitcoin because they cannot reverse the payments.

The other reason, and a big one, is that Bitcoin is direct and imminent threat to Paypal.  I cannot see them being friendly to Bitcoin anytime soon unless they are backed in a corner.

even if PayPal loves bitcoin, the banks they depend on certainly don't.

why would they risk the very core of their business for a few extra grand per week?

on top of that I assume previous bitcoin transactions often ended up in charge backs and screaming. that ties up staff and costs them money.

way better for them to reject it completely. they are not anyone's friend or interested in a new system's growing pains.

I will want to agree with you on this because from the way I see it, no matter how Paypal try to sugar coat it, they still see Bitcoin as a threat to their dominance and even with their strict policies and accepting Bitcoin, they are gradually sending themselves out of Business. Another way again is there is no how that we cant see the element of Government hands in the hostile relationship metted out on traders using Bitcoin...

probably because paypal using government regulations, companies prefer to play it safe, if paypal choose and accept BTC, there may be a threat in some countries

because bitcoin payments can't be reversed easily,thats why
Paypal is well known for reversing payments if disputed but its hard to do that with bitcoins
plus they are afraid of bitcoin taking their market share

PayPal will never allow BTC simple words .. whatever you do or whatever honesty you show with PayPal . Cause BTC is big competitor to them now and also anonymous and they never allowed exchange from first , the solution is that open business PayPal and send some [ blank envelope ] documents to your customer via physical mail to their confirmed PayPal address , add this cost into your exchange rate and this is the only way you win almost 99% chargebacks with PP . At least what i experience so far over 10 years ..  

I always thought that paypal saw bitcoin as a rival to their business model so they would not or will never accept it for any reason whatsoever.

But paypal can see that it is losing out by not doing this so they might come out with their own digital payment token or something with conjuction with amazon payments.
Who knows only time will tell.

Yes, because Paypal and bitcoin different we can know what is the best payment system. I use Paypal about 7 years ago, and I hate because my amount was frozen. After that is enough for me to say "good bye" to Paypal.

PayPal can confirm and check whether you are telling the truth or not by checking if recipient BTC address got bitcoins or not.
I could say I paid some product (not BTC) with paypal and didn't get it, there are poor countries where postmen can steal the package, the same as your traveling bag can disappear at the airport. there is the way for paypal to see if you got BTC or not, every transaction can be checked at blockchain.info.

peter thiel and paypal are NSA company and they blocked wikileaks, that was clear politics and not business.
nsa and cia doesn't make companies by themselves then they use some people for that (coinbase, ycombinator, in-q-tel, etc).
they don't hide it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Q-Tel

The big reason is their business model is built around buyer protection.  So if a seller scams a buyer there is no way for them to charge back the bitcoin after it leaves their own bank.

There are 2 reasons why PayPal doesn't like dealing with Bitcoin:

1. In p2p trading when you use PayPal to purchase BTC you can be a scammer and claim that you never received any BTC from that guy you were dealing with and ask for refund.
How PayPal can confirm and check whether you are telling the truth or not?

2. PayPal is similar to bitcoin, as PP is internet payment provider so bitcoin is its natural rival in that field.

But PayPal apparently has no problem when dealing with companies which can automate bitcoin purchasing, like Coinbase - you can use PP to buy bitcoins there.

if Paypal allow the payment of bitcoin in his plaform it will be the end of paypal.

Paypal should open his mind and allow the payment of bitcoin with his platform without closing PayPal account with crappy arguments. The only thing I hate about this company is when you sell something on Ebay they charge a fee, when you convert a currency to another currency they don't give you a good rate and now they close accounts

I am sure you are not alone with your bad experience with PayPal. I experienced almost the same treatment coming from Paypal and I swear that if possible I would not want to deal with them anymore. Now, Paypal is feeling the heat coming from Bitcoin and soon they can be out of the business...and that is good news.

With this kind of situation we could really say that paypal is not really fully coordinating with bitcoin because they somehow blocking it or making some problems arise just to make some excuses for them to deny bitcoin to be part on their service. Well if this is the case then its not really surprising for me since paypal does really see that bitcoin is really a great and strong competitor on their service.

As I know paypal and coinbase were going to make agreement than would allow customers to do more with bitcoins than before. As I know they integrated it already but reality is very different. I read on this forum that many users were banned for buying and selling bitcoin with paypal.

My experience is that it's bad for sellers, less bad for buyers. I can't understand their aim because they are freezing accounts. If they continue like this, it seems that they aren't going to add bitcoin payment.

Paypal sees bitcoin as direct competition, as Western Union does as well. Have you seen the court case that WU launched against a savvy bitcoiner for "stealing their advertisement design"? This just proves that they are getting to the point where they are so desperate to get people away from bitcoin that they are willing to post nonesense bullshit like that court case.

Anyways, Paypal just doesn't like bitcoin. It is a for-profit organisation, is paypal. Bitcoin is decentralised, and not for profit. Paypal knows that their technology is behind. They are just really really salty that bitcoin is so good.

Nobody knows the real answers. Maybe the people who make that kind of decision are just really behind. I've tried to figure it out many times and they just give weird blanket statements about it but no real answers. At some point they'll be using cryptocurrencies as a former of payment but until then, it's against the ToS.

really I sell bitcoins all the time to Paypal with  my coinbase account and it's less a hassle then with my bank in fact i did a instant sell to paypal a few hours ago .
 my paypal account is a business account i don't use it that way.

Go thu coin base that might work .!!!

https://www.coinbase.com

despite what some say about coin base i don't have any issue with them once i set up my account and proved who i was .

I have more hassle with my Bank on how i get my cash or deposit it ,with just cash or checks because of that I sell it to paypal then transfer the money to my bank and get it faster.  checks on my bank with money in the account to another account can take days to clear with my bank they started getting  real crappy lately just  doing normal business with them .
 I would change banks but that's can be even worse with direct deposit  so I work around there issue for now .

Exactly.Bitcoin is indeed a serious competition to PayPal and if it become mainstream, PayPal would have to wind up their business.You obviously can't expect business competitors to promote each other.

Now that Amazon is accepting bitcoin payments using iPay you, PayPal should find a way of allowing bitcoin payments as well.

Being left out the current trend is never a good business strategy.

Dealing with paypal is really difficult ,if you are doing regular business with paypal and if you have  a good amount of balance in your account they will find a way to ban the account citing some reason or the other and i am sure many people in here have this kind of experience if they ever used paypal for doing any services ,i do had bad experience from them as they confiscated my account multiple times long back

With the tight control PayPal has, lots of people would migrate from PayPal to bitcoins. They had better learn to work with bitcoins if they do not want to go out of business eventually.

To correct you on that, Paypal is not owned by the government and is a private entity and has always been that way. They essentially offer what bitcoin does, but at high rates and in a centralized way, hence they would never want anything to rise which would affect their profits.

Paypal is controlled by the US government, and it is impossible to to trace Bitcoin and take it taxes. Until the government will not take control of cryptocurrency, it will not be officially exchange them.

I guess it's because BTC is a serious competition to them, Unfortunately other than them showing improvement in there attitude to BTC there isn't much that can be done, Opening a law suit that may cost allot of money is the other option but not many can do it.

We have been in BitCoin sale business for more than a 1.5 years and started offering people to purchase Bitcoin paying with PayPal on localbitcoins and paxful as well as our own website Paybis.com

There was a learning curve, to find a safe process and avoid chargebacks, but the story is about different topic.

First we started with European Business PayPal account, after 6-7 month it got shutdown with comment that BitCoins are not regulated in EU thus it's too high risk.
At same time we learned that there are people and companies in USA selling BitCoins for PayPal without any problems. So we did same, opened a company, opened PayPal business account, 6-7 month same story, account closed with comments that it's too high Risk.

The important thing is that we were 100% open to PayPal in what we do, during reviews, phone calls and all disputes. We even won around 50% of all disputes. As result having less then 1% in chargebacks in total.

PayPal never commented or answered any emails addressed to compliance team, where we explained our business model, verification processes, etc.

The market is still there, it's still growing, some traders like us disappear, new ones are getting into the game thinking it's such a great place. But in reality, 90% of people who we know that sell BitCoin for paypal get their accounts shut down. As result, they have to start using new accounts pretending the sell something different, thus PayPal allows them to operate without knowing what they really do.

Is that smart? is PayPal shooting it self in the leg, rejecting honest and transparent sellers? Or maybe it's easier for them to report that there are no high risks merchants and close eyes for under cover operations as long as there are not too many disputes.

I've found a guy who works in PayPal compliance over the web, we agreed that i'll not disclose his name, but i'll put here some of his statements:

• PP usa is regulated as payment trasfer business. I think requires separate licence in each state. Controls are tough but not too tough.
• PP EU is regulated as bank and same as for bitstamp licence probably took years to acquire. PP will not risk loosing licence for 0.5% of extra revenue (risk apetite).
• Usa pushed some good clarifications around and regulatory frameworks giving entities in crypto business operating parameters. EU remain very conservative and regulatory vacum is a problem. Well established entities will not risk relationships with regulators in those unclear conditions.

So these statements explain the reason why PayPal Europe might not want to deal with us, but still does not explain why PayPal USA turned away.

What's your experience with PayPal? Despite that we all know that PayPal is EVIL Do you think they will changed their policies in EU after new FATF guidelines will be released? Do you have ideas how this could work with PayPal USA?