Why russia wants to invade ukraine? | Bitcointalksearch.org

Sayeds56

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Quote from: Quickseller on February 13, 2022, 11:49:36 AM

Quote from: laredo7mm on February 11, 2022, 06:08:35 PM

Quote from: Gyfts on February 11, 2022, 04:59:09 PM

Russia/Ukraine tensions escalating. US to deploy more troops into Poland.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/11/russia-invasion-ukraine-imminent-white-house/

U.S. claims that an invasion is immanent and has long called for U.S. citizens to evacuate the country. The reporting on the Ukrainian side is that the U.S. is attempting to fear monger and that the threat of invasion is overblown. I'd side with the U.S. in their assessment, Russian aggression will not be curbed with diplomacy, and all diplomatic efforts have failed. Whatever Putin wants, he'll get it.

Polan is also expanding its army personal armored tank and other strategic weapons. Source link. They are doing this to checkmate Russia. It seems Putin is in a very bad position and looking for a way to get out of this mess. The Polish army creates a simulation war with Russia and finds out how vulnerable their military might be. Strength Ukraine and Poland's arms force will strengthen NATO power in the region.

NATO countries to the West of Ukraine are being reinforced, however to my knowledge, there is no plan to assist Ukraine if Russia invades. There seems to be a fear that Russia will not stop at Ukraine if they invade. I don't know if there is any basis for that fear, but the fear itself has the potential for a major escalation in conflict.

If there is no Plan of NATO to assist Ukraine in case of Russian invasion then why it is being reinforced? Media is predicting war since past 3 month and panicking everybody but Russia has its own limits & logics , Putin simply wants to keep NATO far away from its neighborhood as no country even USA doesn't want any hostile forces near its borders , there is very slim chances of full scale war because the world economy is already in serious trouble because of coid-19 and it can not afford any further damage.

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 11, 2022, 06:08:35 PM

Quote from: Gyfts on February 11, 2022, 04:59:09 PM

Russia/Ukraine tensions escalating. US to deploy more troops into Poland.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/11/russia-invasion-ukraine-imminent-white-house/

U.S. claims that an invasion is immanent and has long called for U.S. citizens to evacuate the country. The reporting on the Ukrainian side is that the U.S. is attempting to fear monger and that the threat of invasion is overblown. I'd side with the U.S. in their assessment, Russian aggression will not be curbed with diplomacy, and all diplomatic efforts have failed. Whatever Putin wants, he'll get it.

Polan is also expanding its army personal armored tank and other strategic weapons. Source link. They are doing this to checkmate Russia. It seems Putin is in a very bad position and looking for a way to get out of this mess. The Polish army creates a simulation war with Russia and finds out how vulnerable their military might be. Strength Ukraine and Poland's arms force will strengthen NATO power in the region.

NATO countries to the West of Ukraine are being reinforced, however to my knowledge, there is no plan to assist Ukraine if Russia invades. There seems to be a fear that Russia will not stop at Ukraine if they invade. I don't know if there is any basis for that fear, but the fear itself has the potential for a major escalation in conflict.

laredo7mm

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Quote from: Gyfts on February 11, 2022, 04:59:09 PM

Russia/Ukraine tensions escalating. US to deploy more troops into Poland.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/11/russia-invasion-ukraine-imminent-white-house/

U.S. claims that an invasion is immanent and has long called for U.S. citizens to evacuate the country. The reporting on the Ukrainian side is that the U.S. is attempting to fear monger and that the threat of invasion is overblown. I'd side with the U.S. in their assessment, Russian aggression will not be curbed with diplomacy, and all diplomatic efforts have failed. Whatever Putin wants, he'll get it.

Polan is also expanding its army personal armored tank and other strategic weapons. Source link. They are doing this to checkmate Russia. It seems Putin is in a very bad position and looking for a way to get out of this mess. The Polish army creates a simulation war with Russia and finds out how vulnerable their military might be. Strength Ukraine and Poland's arms force will strengthen NATO power in the region.

Gyfts

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Russia/Ukraine tensions escalating. US to deploy more troops into Poland.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/11/russia-invasion-ukraine-imminent-white-house/

U.S. claims that an invasion is immanent and has long called for U.S. citizens to evacuate the country. The reporting on the Ukrainian side is that the U.S. is attempting to fear monger and that the threat of invasion is overblown. I'd side with the U.S. in their assessment, Russian aggression will not be curbed with diplomacy, and all diplomatic efforts have failed. Whatever Putin wants, he'll get it.

laredo7mm

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Quote from: Oshosondy on February 11, 2022, 04:14:42 AM

Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 08:33:33 AM

We all know what "little boy" and "fat man" have done in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those bombs were powerful as 15kiloton of TNT. Now think what a 100 kiloton TNT equivalent powerful nuclear bomb can do. A single bomb can destroy an entire city and kill its people. Now you understand why the USA still fears north Korea?

I understand you, but with what I have known, US did not fear North Korea because of their nuclear weapons but because of allied countries, North Korea is nothing before US, North Korea nuclear project and successfully made nuclear weapons is nothing if compared to that of US, only Russia can stand before US, they are the two countries with much 90% nuclear weapons among other countries.

Brother, I think you didn't understand what I was trying to say. The number is nothing when we are talking about nuclear weapons. The USA could have thousands of nuclear warheads which could destroy the whole world several times but you can devastate the USA with 20 nuclear weapons. Just think you wipe out 20 major cities of the USA what will happen then? No one knows but the damage will be done and cost greatly. Nuclear weapon gives power to the small country to challenge superpowers like firearm balance the power of two people in which one is physically weak one is strong.

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 07, 2022, 08:42:59 AM

Do you think there is anything more serious than this which causes this situation?

I think it is more likely that Putin wants to try to get Russia to become more like the former Soviet Union.

There isn't a serious threat of an invasion of Russia, and the stockpiling of weapons by Ukraine is largely in response to Russia annexing Crimea, and is not an act of aggression against Russia, but is rather a defensive stance.

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 08:33:33 AM

We all know what "little boy" and "fat man" have done in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those bombs were powerful as 15kiloton of TNT. Now think what a 100 kiloton TNT equivalent powerful nuclear bomb can do. A single bomb can destroy an entire city and kill its people. Now you understand why the USA still fears north Korea?

I understand you, but with what I have known, US did not fear North Korea because of their nuclear weapons but because of allied countries, North Korea is nothing before US, North Korea nuclear project and successfully made nuclear weapons is nothing if compared to that of US, only Russia can stand before US, they are the two countries with much 90% nuclear weapons among other countries.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on February 10, 2022, 07:31:38 AM

North Korea have nuclear power but very low if compared to US or Russia, they are just a small country, if not backed by strong countries like Russia, they are nothing. But I understand you, you are right.

We all know what "little boy" and "fat man" have done in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those bombs were powerful as 15kiloton of TNT. Now think what a 100 kiloton TNT equivalent powerful nuclear bomb can do. A single bomb can destroy an entire city and kill its people. Now you understand why the USA still fears north Korea?

Quote from: mindrust on February 10, 2022, 07:47:52 AM

As far as I understand, the parts Russia wants to invade is already mostly Russian, like Crimea. Crimea didn't fight the Russians when they came because they are (the Crimean people) Russians. The east of Ukraine will probably also not defend their soil against a Russian attack for the same reason.

That means, Russia is not invading anything.

Eastern and Southern regions of Ukraine's people are pro-Russian. But it's still around 46% of the total population so the majority of people want to be part of NATO. Russia could invade Ukraine but there won't be any annexation of it with Russia as you have said already. So Putin's plan is to create an autonomous region in Ukraine so that the central govt can not make any decision as to its own.

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As far as I understand, the parts Russia wants to invade is already mostly Russian, like Crimea. Crimea didn't fight the Russians when they came because they are (the Crimean people) Russians. The east of Ukraine will probably also not defend their soil against a Russian attack for the same reason.

That means, Russia is not invading anything.

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Quote from: Sayeds56 on February 10, 2022, 03:58:46 AM

United states and its Allied forces killed millions of innocent citizens in the name of combating terrorism and to install democracy in Middle East and Afghanistan and result of this massive killing is that neither democracy exists in these countries nor terrorism was eliminated.

United States did not just invaded Afghanistan, it was because if Osama Bin Laden after the world trade center in US was bombed making US and NATO to think that Afghanistan is harbouring terrorists which can become to much deadly.

Quote from: laredo7mm on February 10, 2022, 06:43:30 AM

Using nuclear weapons will be the last choice. If a country like Russia or North Korea would going to falls due to war then it will surely use its nuclear arsenal to destroy its enemy with them.

North Korea have nuclear power but very low if compared to US or Russia, they are just a small country, if not backed by strong countries like Russia, they are nothing. But I understand you, you are right.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on February 10, 2022, 02:27:53 AM

Thinking of war this time will be far more deadly and this will be world war 3 because it will involve many countries, I checked the nuclear weapons in USA and Russia, both countries dominates and it will not be easy at all, this will lead to destruction of live and fertile environment.

Using nuclear weapons will be the last choice. If a country like Russia or North Korea would going to falls due to war then it will surely use its nuclear arsenal to destroy its enemy with them. Nuclear weapons won't be used in a regional conflict. It gives the balance of power and no matter how crazy a country leader would be no one wants the destruction of their people. One country using nuclear weapons means a full-scale nuclear war ignite which will unlikely to happens ever.

Sayeds56

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Quote from: Oshosondy on February 10, 2022, 02:27:53 AM

Quote from: laredo7mm on February 08, 2022, 04:17:26 AM

Joining NATO is just an excuse but there is more than one reason behind this movement. No matter Ukraine joins NATO or not Russia will invade Ukraine and give autonomy to the regional govt in Ukraine so that the whole country can not work unitedly.

With what I think, Ukraine joining Nato is a threat for Russia which Russia believe will be a threat for them in the future, it is not about Ukraine joining NATO but also about Nato expansion which will definitely go beyond Ukraine if Ukraine joins.

Quote from: Sayeds56 on February 08, 2022, 09:07:59 AM

The kind of nuclear arsenal available to both of them is enough to turn this globe into a big grave yard if war breaks out. Thinking of war in 2022 is madness and I hope Wisdom will prevail and Nuclear deterrent will definitely force them to resolve regional conflicts through negotiations.

Thinking of war this time will be far more deadly and this will be world war 3 because it will involve many countries, I checked the nuclear weapons in USA and Russia, both countries dominates and it will not be easy at all, this will lead to destruction of live and fertile environment.

Nuclear deterrent has successfully prevented WW3 though regional conflicts and terrorism has killed millions of innocents people after WW2. Fortunately we have not seen WW3 but United states and its Allied forces killed millions of innocent citizens in the name of combating terrorism and to install democracy in Middle East and Afghanistan and result of this massive killing is that neither democracy exists in these countries nor terrorism was eliminated.

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 08, 2022, 04:17:26 AM

Joining NATO is just an excuse but there is more than one reason behind this movement. No matter Ukraine joins NATO or not Russia will invade Ukraine and give autonomy to the regional govt in Ukraine so that the whole country can not work unitedly.

With what I think, Ukraine joining Nato is a threat for Russia which Russia believe will be a threat for them in the future, it is not about Ukraine joining NATO but also about Nato expansion which will definitely go beyond Ukraine if Ukraine joins.

Quote from: Sayeds56 on February 08, 2022, 09:07:59 AM

The kind of nuclear arsenal available to both of them is enough to turn this globe into a big grave yard if war breaks out. Thinking of war in 2022 is madness and I hope Wisdom will prevail and Nuclear deterrent will definitely force them to resolve regional conflicts through negotiations.

Thinking of war this time will be far more deadly and this will be world war 3 because it will involve many countries, I checked the nuclear weapons in USA and Russia, both countries dominates and it will not be easy at all, this will lead to destruction of live and fertile environment.

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Quote from: Gyfts on February 08, 2022, 10:40:20 AM

Had none of these NATO talks by Ukraine reached a climax, we wouldn't see Putin be so eager.

You are right about it because Putin knows the full annexation of Ukraine with Russia will create so many insurgents in Ukraine and the Kremlin doesn't want that. Putin just wants to make sure Ukraine will not join NATO anyway and he will surely use force if he had to. Biden doesn't want to take one step back either and wants Ukraine to be part of NATO so that he can put more pressure on Russia.

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Quote from: Sayeds56 on February 08, 2022, 09:07:59 AM

Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on February 08, 2022, 05:54:27 AM

I've seen this mentioned in geography channels before. The Great European Plain is indeed the entry way into Russia and there's nothing in the way to protect Moscow. During the Soviet days Russia was able to set some strategic distance between it and Western Europe when it controlled Ukraine. With the Carpathians to the north, invading armies would be funneled through Ukraine, making a more easily defensible chokepoint.

Having this former chokepoint allied with its "enemies" would be the worst thing for Russia. I believe no matter who was in control in Moscow, the Russian government would have disapproved of this and try to sabotage it.

I think both Joe Biden and Putin have cold war mindset which is creating all this war hysteria but as a matter of fact direct war between the two major world powers is out of question. The kind of nuclear arsenal available to both of them is enough to turn this globe into a big grave yard if war breaks out. Thinking of war in 2022 is madness and I hope Wisdom will prevail and Nuclear deterrent will definitely force them to resolve regional conflicts through negotiations.

Can never be too sure. Remember that time nuclear war almost broke out over Cuba? Averted only because one of the Russian officers refused to give his consent. These countries are probably posturing against each other in some other places and we just won't know about it unless something bad came out of it.

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Good summation. I'd only add that Ukraine was previously part of the USSR, so the argument for an invasion (albeit complete nonsense) is the idea that Russia and Ukraine should be reunited. None of that would really matter had it not been for the strategic military alliance of Ukraine and the west, so Putin sees that as a problem by his own account. Had none of these NATO talks by Ukraine reached a climax, we wouldn't see Putin be so eager.

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Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on February 08, 2022, 05:54:27 AM

I've seen this mentioned in geography channels before. The Great European Plain is indeed the entry way into Russia and there's nothing in the way to protect Moscow. During the Soviet days Russia was able to set some strategic distance between it and Western Europe when it controlled Ukraine. With the Carpathians to the north, invading armies would be funneled through Ukraine, making a more easily defensible chokepoint.

Having this former chokepoint allied with its "enemies" would be the worst thing for Russia. I believe no matter who was in control in Moscow, the Russian government would have disapproved of this and try to sabotage it.

I think both Joe Biden and Putin have cold war mindset which is creating all this war hysteria but as a matter of fact direct war between the two major world powers is out of question. The kind of nuclear arsenal available to both of them is enough to turn this globe into a big grave yard if war breaks out. Thinking of war in 2022 is madness and I hope Wisdom will prevail and Nuclear deterrent will definitely force them to resolve regional conflicts through negotiations.

TheCoinGrabber

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I've seen this mentioned in geography channels before. The Great European Plain is indeed the entry way into Russia and there's nothing in the way to protect Moscow. During the Soviet days Russia was able to set some strategic distance between it and Western Europe when it controlled Ukraine. With the Carpathians to the north, invading armies would be funneled through Ukraine, making a more easily defensible chokepoint.

Having this former chokepoint allied with its "enemies" would be the worst thing for Russia. I believe no matter who was in control in Moscow, the Russian government would have disapproved of this and try to sabotage it.

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Quote from: Sayeds56 on February 08, 2022, 03:49:13 AM

I think Russia will not attack Ukraine if USA provides guarantee that Ukraine will not be given NATO membership, in simple words they don't like see hostile forces in their neighborhood. Russia seems genuinely concerned about that, and are valid in their assessment that Ukraine joining the EU would be seen as provocation.

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Russia-invading-Ukraine

If you read my points carefully then you will understand it's not only about Ukraine joining NATO. Russia already has some neighboring country that is with NATO. Russia is observing the situation for a long time and waiting for a chance to cripple Kyiv so that they can not pose any threat to Russia in the future. Joining NATO is just an excuse but there is more than one reason behind this movement. No matter Ukraine joins NATO or not Russia will invade Ukraine and give autonomy to the regional govt in Ukraine so that the whole country can not work unitedly.

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Quote from: laredo7mm on February 07, 2022, 08:42:59 AM

A democratically governed neighbor is something Russia cannot stand. Democracy on its doorstep would unavoidably seek to the west for legitimacy and Liberal principles, linking itself with organizations such as the EU and NATO in the process. This doesn't matter it's true or not but this is how Russia sees it. In my observation, these are some main points behind Russia's aggression.

Ukraine's flat terrain merge with Russia's mainland and there are no natural obstacles between them. That means if Ukraine joins NATO Russia needs to expand its spending on military infrastructure and troops to secure its western border with Ukraine which Putin can not do. This could bankrupt Russia economically.

Russia's territorial integrity would be jeopardized by NATO's involvement in Ukraine. The Black Sea Coast of Ukraine is located around 750 kilometers from the Caspian Sea. A trained military force could cover that distance in a day or two. As a consequence, a land bridge between the Russian heartland and the North Caucasus would be built, crippling the Russian state.
Ukraine is stockpiling strategic arms from the USA and it has a large quantity of anti-tank missiles which could be proved deadly for Russian tanks. Also, Turkis drone seems deadly against Russian weaponry and Ukraine has established licensed facilities to produce them.
Ukraine is looking forward to developing its own missile program which is a serious threat to the Russian mainland.

Do you think there is anything more serious than this which causes this situation?

I think Russia will not attack Ukraine if USA provides guarantee that Ukraine will not be given NATO membership, in simple words they don't like see hostile forces in their neighborhood. Russia seems genuinely concerned about that, and are valid in their assessment that Ukraine joining the EU would be seen as provocation.

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Russia-invading-Ukraine

laredo7mm

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A democratically governed neighbor is something Russia cannot stand. Democracy on its doorstep would unavoidably seek to the west for legitimacy and Liberal principles, linking itself with organizations such as the EU and NATO in the process. This doesn't matter it's true or not but this is how Russia sees it. In my observation, these are some main points behind Russia's aggression.

Ukraine's flat terrain merge with Russia's mainland and there are no natural obstacles between them. That means if Ukraine joins NATO Russia needs to expand its spending on military infrastructure and troops to secure its western border with Ukraine which Putin can not do. This could bankrupt Russia economically.

Russia's territorial integrity would be jeopardized by NATO's involvement in Ukraine. The Black Sea Coast of Ukraine is located around 750 kilometers from the Caspian Sea. A trained military force could cover that distance in a day or two. As a consequence, a land bridge between the Russian heartland and the North Caucasus would be built, crippling the Russian state.
Ukraine is stockpiling strategic arms from the USA and it has a large quantity of anti-tank missiles which could be proved deadly for Russian tanks. Also, Turkis drone seems deadly against Russian weaponry and Ukraine has established licensed facilities to produce them.
Ukraine is looking forward to developing its own missile program which is a serious threat to the Russian mainland.

Do you think there is anything more serious than this which causes this situation?

Topic: Why russia wants to invade ukraine? (Read 217 times)