Topic: Why there is difference? (Read 2661 times)

The IRS who visited themselves said they were here based on an order/request from ED.
I am not sure if circumstances are different (i think it would be similar) but outcomes were for sure different.

None of them are related. Both are different agencies and may have different mandates.


Regards

The IRS sent the ED even in dashingriddlers case or was it the other way around?, but from what i gather, the circumstances and outcomes were different in both cases.

No case registered, No charge sheet and nothing horrible as such. It was search conducted on our office premises, but as investigations are still going on it is good for me if I do not comment on it. ED is very different from IRS

Regards

A case does not need to be registered in order for a do not discuss order to be passed.

OUCH !!! So there has been a case registered against Mahin Gupta ? I mean, what is the offence ? Did he accept cash ?

Yes i do not myself agree if you say my case was as serious as Mahin's based upon the info i have regarding Mahin's case. Even though the visit looked very serious when they started investigation in my office, it finally turned to be a chat where i was answering some general questions about bitcoin and explaining them about technology. Next day visit to their office was also to answer their generic questions on bitcoin but the most important question has been how to identify people who have bitcoin and how to identify miners.

+1

Hmmmm.. How would you know?
During the course of an investigation, anyone involved can be asked by law to talk to absolutely no one about the proceedings of the case.

Maybe this is what has happened in Mahin's case.

I beg to disagree with u. Sathvik Vishwanath's issue was no less serious than Mahin Gupta's. Its good if Mahin at least share his blog URL.

p.s.1: Look this time I have spelled correctly

p.s.2: No, he's NOT Nick Szabo (Yes this is the correct spelling).

You've to look beyond words when dealing with India. Words are shallow and deceiving. Enough said!

Yeah - India is just a bit hard to deal with though.

I was teasing indeed. Forgive me! If I offended you. I just speak.  Yeah! I noticed GBC in your post but wasn't sure about your connection with it. And I've never played SecondLife..or GTA. Well, I like to deceived people on national level before going global.

I dont know if you are teasing haha. Most of my posts since 3 days has GBC in it. Dashingriddler is the name i am known on a virtual world called secondlife since 4 years. I used that username to create gmail account to keep bitcoin emails separate and used it here as well. Did not guess i could end up this way with bitcoin else i could have used my real name which i like.

Nice to meet you as well. Remember we called conf as Global and you are still just India. jk! haha

Sathvik Vishwanath? The one who organized GBC? Really? I can't believe, you're here in forum between us. I was looking for you everywhere and here you're around me with alias "Dashingriddler". How fool of me. 

Hi Satvik! Nice to meet you! BTCIndia here. I guess, you have idea about size of India.

IRS guys did not like me sharing ALL the info like i did as well. IRS guy expressed this in a subsequent call.

BTW the correct way to spell my name is Sathvik. Full name is Sathvik Vishwanath

Its okay we do understand seriousness of issue. Forgive him for asking silly question. We look forward to your contribution for 'time-being'.

Absence increase respect.

Thanks

Cant share much about ED visit as of now.
I am planning to contribute more on forums for the time-being, and yep blogging too.


Regards

Yup... now your every step is expected to save yourself. But I salute your guts that u r back here. Some champions of this forum are found to delete their own post after ED visited u... LoLz

Just like Sattik shared the IRS visit with us... will u share the ED visit Mahin ?

My same request is to Nilam Doctor, if he is reading this........... 

Oh i had read this article a couple of weeks ago. Not sure where i had got the link from though at that time. Thanks for sharing.

http://cis-india.org/internet-governance/bitcoin-legal-regulation-india

My search on google and on forum did not get the info i m looking for. may i know the username from which they are publishing on this forum? or may be the links where i can read about these?

They have been a part of the community for a long while now.
They have released the most definitive study on Bitcoin in India as well. All these things are on the forums.

I beleive it is center for internet and society as per google. i could not find anything specific to bitcon that is related to them though. sure will wait for more news. but please share if you already know something about it.

The argument "If the law gets formed which will be retrospective, then it do not matter whether you stopped the business in between or continued. You still get prosecuted." came up while we were having some discussions with ND himself. The argument came up from our own BAI group and ND did not oppose.

Chances that retrospective regulation may be farmed is slim is said by both ND and also IRS guy who visited CoinMonk when i asked about his opinion. I have the same opinion as well.

Possible. Quite an eccentric and global personality.

Is this the same venugopal - ? http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-cwc/content/story/246078.html

Is this your interpretation or guidance given by legal adviser engaged? Any documentation, you feel like sharing? Or its exclusive for BAI?

Good to see a notice has been slapped to RBI and hope it turns out good.
Unocoin started operation after consulting NDA in mumbai. "If the law gets formed which will be retrospective, then it do not matter whether you stopped the business in between or continued. You still get prosecuted." This is one of the arguments heard. The chances that there will be a retrospective regulation is extremely slim.

Lol Yep, you are not naive and that disclaimer is not for you, but put that disclaimer to save myself
I will again quote below line :
"Bitcoin isn't just cutting edge technology it is cutting edge application of law and that means risk, complexity, and uncertainty."

Legal advise does not help in case of uncertainty, and in that case its better to avoid that sector. Sometimes you learn lessons hard way.

Regards

Lol.

We are not resuming buy and sell until we have clear guidelines for sure. We are working on something that is related to analysis, information and technical side of Bitcoin.

Regards

"The document, a copy of which is available with dna, contests every point of the December 24 RBI press release regarding Bitcoin."

Aren't we privileged enough to get access to document? Denial won't be surprise where people pretend to be a community.

How did he manage technical support for new business model around Bitcoin? BD from Amul butter-sikka? Or wrote one?

http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report-bitcoin-fan-slaps-notice-on-rbi-seeks-framework-1958211

Here we go.

LOL! Do we look so naive to consider it as legal advice? 
What about you? Did you consult Legal Adviser before your activity?

No logic thought but when you're in controversial currency its better to expect controversial questions.   

Hi,

I am on forums, but generally do not speak a lot nowdays... If you have any specific questions you can always PM me or send an email to [email protected]

We have not resumed operations for the same reason where we suspended it, its still not clear if transacting Bitcoin and allowing people to buy and sell bitcoins requires any registrations or approvals. RBI stand is still not changed and so ours.

Also to the OP : We have not suspended business after raids. We suspended it before raids and it was due to RBI circular and not raids

As far as I understand holding Bitcoin, mining Bitcoin does not have any issue at this moment as long as you are declaring it in your assets and filling your tax papers clearly.

Person to person ( peer to peer personal trades ) buy and sell should be fine if you know the person personally, have meet him and and can produce KYC and source of your Bitcoin/INR and have sufficient knowledge of their source of Bitcoin/INR, and your transaction is completed using bank accounts.  Why you need to do so much if its just barter ? Well you don't know yet if this is classified as barter or regulated transaction. So better be prepared with everything you can produce. The best thing in peer to peer will be you will exactly knowing what you are doing and with whom you are doing and your transaction volume most probably will be very small.

Running a business where you allow buy and sell is altogether different thing. You dont even know that you are being classified as commodity exchanger and you must have registration and approval from FMC or may be you need AD or FFMC or ME registration. Even if you are doing everything correct, you dont even know that your compliance officer must file STR with FIU. The issue is that without clear guidelines you dont even know that you are supposed to file STR.

Please dont give arguments like there is no law for Bitcoin and they can not charge you with anything. You can say that their classification of Bitcoin and its transactions with existing laws will not hold in court, and you may be very right. But you have to understand a very important thing.

Be sure you understand the risk and utter unfairness though.  If regulators are "wrong" they don't lose anything (except some taxpayer money).  They either write some new guidance, amendment, circular or they ask parliament/ministry  to pass some new laws/ruling because current ones don't cover virtual currencies.  If you are "wrong" then you potentially could lose everything, your savings, your livelihood, your good name, even your freedom.   Eventually most of these issues will end up in court but there is no real case law on Bitcoin or virtual currencies yet.  In thirty or forty years this will be old news (like all the regulatory and legal issues related to non-bank entities and credit cards are now).   Bitcoin isn't just cutting edge technology it is cutting edge application of law and that means risk, complexity, and uncertainty.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A LAWYER.  THE ABOVE POST IS INFORMATIONAL ONLY AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVISE.  IF YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC QUESTION ABOUT YOUR ACTIVITY YOU SHOULD RETAIN INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVISER.

Regards

I hear that he should be back soon with a new business model around Bitcoin.

Well the clash, is a clash of  ideas and  the basic opensource principles (FOSS), The way businesses in the  bitsoin global community was conducted is through mutual and gained trust, Trust is  one of the biggest things in the  bitcoin community, 'Caveat Emptor' is the model businesses are  based on, and falls on the community to provide a safety net by pointing out  wrong business practices.

When things fall on the buyer to take most of the risk, a  community needs to take care of it and look to  the benefit of the  community, not a  business  venture.

Google CIS. The rest of the information will be release on the public domain in time.

What is CIS? May i know if some people are behind chitanya advocates or they themselves have filed a letter?

The time when GBC happend was different and there was no storm. GBC did not ask speakers to speak on a specific topic - topics were chosen by the speakers themselves and GBC only categorized them into 4 panels. If it was happening now, it would have been much different for sure. I am also thinking GBC is one of the reasons for storm to start in India.
It would be interesting to see how things would turn out if some one can organize another conference now in India.

Why do u ask such controversial questions ? See what is going on here => https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=369278.60

Has not buysellbitco.in resumed operation yet ? I can see Mahin Gupta is back to the forum for.............

George Bernard Shaw to the mooon

He probably wrote it just after looking at me.. haha

A man never tells you anything until you contradict him.
~George Bernard Shaw

The CIS has done a way more intensive study on an Open Source level for Bitcoin in India. Also, Chaitanya Advocates from Bangalore have filed a letter with the RBI and have given a deadline of Feb 7th before the case is taken to the higher courts. NDA have also done a press release, so its a well noted contribution.
The Global Bitcoin Conference had speakers who spoke about how easy it was to purchase Bitcoins on Mt Gox and bring them to India. These things were voraciously spoken along with investment advice and sales focus. The conference would have gained way more acceptance if it had focused on the nascent stage of the technology rather than rendering it as an investment vehicle.

Watch who you troll! You obviously seem to be driven by mainstream media and that will only get you as far as the door.

If you want to sensationalize something that no one understands, scam people on your own time, using your own methods.

Well, I think, BAI has taken first intelligent move from community to engage consultant 'Nishisht Desai Assosiates' for guidance on Bitcoin. Although, move was selfish, but intelligent one. I guess, they were the one who took pain of organizing Global Conference, Banglore. Right? Others just claim 'bringing bitcoin in India' supported by rhetoric and micro blogging activities. What actually required at this moment is lobbying, drama and masala for media to inject them in Bitcoin. Just like filthy bollywood activity to gain attention. Then only they'll take Bitcoin seriously and start exploring more about it. We all know what has happened to people who tried to understand Bitcoin. They land up being member of Bitcoin forum or Bitcoin owner.   I know, those people are incapable but at least they tried. People accuse them of haste moves but we should understand that 3600 coins are mined and not more than 1 BTC/daily belongs to India.  

P.S.: Yeah! Unocoin being online or not barely makes difference to status Bitcoin in India. But Buysellbitco.in status has huge impact due to its market goodwill.

unocoin and bai doesn't do much to the community. bai works only for the welfare of 3 or 4 enterprises, it was formed with.they are venture capitalist working for their own interest and profit.

frankly speakin we aren't big enough for a community to be formed outside here and to rep all of us.
we are just in a beginning  stage and when the use of BTC expands in India  the community will put up together and will have to form a bigger rep.

P.S: i really liked buysellsitco.in. I'd like to see them back

As we know, Buysellbitco.in has halted trade after ED's raid and so did Unocoin. After week or two Unocoin taking things in hand decided to go live and buysellbitco.in not. Why is the difference amount Bitcoin enthusiast? Isn't there unity among people here? Seems like fork has already formed when BAI came into existence. What is the status of Indian community according to you?