Topic: Why Trump presidency may turn out beneficial for Bitcoin long term (Read 3107 times)

I cannot fully agree with this. Why should the US care whether the Chinese government is subsidizing their production? They could use slavery and child labor, and this would totally inhuman and condemnable, but insofar as free trade in particular and laissez-faire capitalism in general are concerned, that shouldn't be an issue.

Trump could just as well claim that China is subsidizing their goods through cheap resources and better demographics.

The younger demographic might not recognise that closing off valid product lines of production raises costs to USA businesses, the general effect of that is reduce available money within a society as it seeks to gain the same utility it has blocked with the loss of free trade.    This idea is not profitable or likely to raise value anywhere, it was tried in the 1930's and did not relinquish until the world war that disrupted it along with many other bad ideas of governments at that time.  Generally after the war we again had free trade and USA was again able to prosper.

Capitalism goes hand in hand with open competition and availability to trade by all.   The only valid reason to close trade with China is with market flooding via subsidised goods made at loss by support of government not free enterprise.    Bitcoin should not generally gain by the loss and failure of any country, it will gain when its preferable in use to other standards such as the dollar.
The biggest mover for bitcoin will be the dollar not Chinese or other currency, the reason for a connection is that Chinese money is using dollars to access world markets.  I think the bitcoin effect is indirect.
If Trump blocked use of dollar and USA banks for trading with China then maybe they would switch to use bitcoin in transactions, thats possible I guess.  Its also possible they use other currency, EURO is the most likely

Let's just hope for the best of America and the bitcoin ecosystem as a whole. Hope, this guy will help to promote bitcoin.

If this was done then he would have much more support from the younger demographic and probably make the others who didn't vote for him make them think that he is indeed about change and for the better. But who knows. Only what his next steps will show if he is just full of it or actually does want to make America great again or just hate (him) more.

He may not have to interfere in Bitcoin affairs directly, but the decisions he takes, for example, raising tariffs on the Chinese goods that America imports may well have a dramatic impact on it. Bitcoin doesn't exist in a sort of ivory tower reluctant or invincible to political and economic decisions of the powers that be even if they don't affect it immediately.

I dont think Trump will have that time to interfere in bitcoin due to what Americas issues that are more needed to have attentions. May he will notice it if it will have such a great impact more in America. Hoping that it will really be in long term and as we know it is still and will always be beneficial yo us with or without Trump.

Nice observation. If that sudden high price is credited to USA election after Trump's winning, its good for us and not to Pres. Trump Bitcoin price goes up can be interpreted that because of Trumps uncerntainty, they pull out their assets and buy bitcoin or other  instrument they can safely park their money.

Bitcoin has been pretty stable recently showing a tendency of growing up, so if we talk about the ordinary Chinese people looking for safe havens, Bitcoin may be the only viable option for most of them. I don't really know if gold is available to the general public in China besides jewelery, and they might have strict controls as well on buying foreign currencies such as dollar or euro, which also seem to be safe havens (well, at least the US dollar presently).

i dont actually think that bitcoin might hurt china strong, cause you need to remember that most of bitcoin is mined in china actually,
 we have the biggest number of miners all over the world in this contry, so it is kidna well distributed there i guess, for elites

To a certain extent is definitely right. It's not as stable as most safe havens but it usually doesn't go along with the stock market (stocks go down, bitcoin rises). I think because bitcoin has some years under it's belt at this point people can look at the past and see that it is a true safe haven investment but is a little unstable too (which of course contradict themselves).

You yourself said that people might switch to Bitcoin for safety. Depreciating currency helps exporters to find new markets for their goods but ordinary people pay for this with their money losing purchasing power because everything becomes more expensive in that currency, especially imports. Quite naturally that when a national currency starts quickly losing value (depreciating), people start searching for safe havens like gold or dollars. Now Bitcoin seems to be another safe haven, at least to a certain extent.

Yeah I think that there will not happen a lot because the bitcoin is from no one and due to that they can also do not a lot about it in my eyes these days.

bitcoin can really hurt China, because they are trying to control their exchange rates. even though there are many Chinese miners, they do not have an union or such, so they are not organized. when an crisis appears they will try to get away and keep their own money instead of fighting together.
That being said, if Trump delivers his promise to China, it will hurt CNY, and people might switch to bitcoin for safety, if the theres no policies stoping them.

also wondering how is the depreciation of CNY a driving force of btc rising in value, as fas as I know CNY depreciating helps blooms the Chinese economy, does not that mean less people there will use bitcoin?

Youre right at some point there. I find it to be quite impossible to think that trump doesnt know about bitcoin. He may very well have someone monitoring btc movement right now.

Trump is not just a showman as many of people think about him. He is a businessman. I am sure he and his staff already know a lot about bitcoin. So they will accept some strategy to bitcoin that will bring money to them. Haha and for us it doesnt mean to be positive. Who knows. I believe that bitcoin doesn't depends from politic and they will not be able to affect on bitcoin somehow big.

But couldn't the Chinese revenge Trump by dropping Bitcoin price? I've heard different opinions on this, but it seems that Chinese miners are controlling a massive share of Bitcoin mining. On this account, they should have enough bitcoins on hand to affect the price, most likely enough to crash it. For example, if they decide to sell all their Bitcoin reserves at once.

I think bitcoin is going to soar up during Trump president. After all Trump received bitcoin as donation during his campaign. Donald Trump has pledged to declare China a currency manipulator on day one of his presidency. During his campaign, he also repeatedly pledged to impose a 45% tariff on Chinese goods. His promises risk creating a trade war between the U.S. and China which could weaken the yuan and accelerate Chinese capital outflows. When the yuan falls, investors often turn to bitcoin.

You can clearly see here when China started rapidly devaluing the Yuan. I perfectly remember that day in August, 2015, when they did that for the fist time. Bitcoin had been mechanically trending downwards for some time yet till it reached about $200 in late August - early September of that year, and then the price started to steadily climb up.

The thesis that Bitcoin growth is primarily the result of Yuan devaluation remains to be proven. Personally, I seriously doubt that China is the main driver of Bitcoin price appreciation, because the operation of the Chinese exchanges is not transparent. I think the primary influence of China on Bitcoin price comes from the assessment of (often fake) "China news" by Western investors.

We should not overestimate the effects of any political leadership on Bitcoin. Bitcoin will grow and appreciate in value regardless of political leadership. The simple reason is that Bitcoin works as a hedge against inflationary fiat currency. The problems of fiat debt money are deeply systemic and can no longer be solved in an orderly fashion. Bitcoin will become a prime target for capital flight in the years to come...

ya.ya.yo!

I wouldn't say that he is a total novice in politics. He certainly knows how this system works, else he couldn't possibly win the Republican Party presidential primaries in early 2016 against such figures as Ted Cruz (senator) or Marco Rubio (another senator) or even Jeb Bush (also former senator). And if I'm not mistaken, he had already been running for the US presidency a few times before he finally hit it this time.

Well, i dont think that Trump presidency may be a hard times for bitcoin, i would rather think reversed- trump may allow people, and even encourage them to use btc, because this is a free world: he is not a guy who wan't to put kids to prison for stupid things- he is a realist.
However you cannot really say anything, because he is a new guy in politics- so he is unpredictable. All you can do is wait, and see what is going to happen with markets, and of course with btc

Everything said by Trump was true.

He said the truth. That's why so many people didn't like him. Half of the American population are living in a dream. Time to wake people up.

Illegal immigration is illegal. If you are illegal, you deserve to get your ass deported. Simple as that.

He is going to create jobs for legal citizens. If you don't own an American ID get your ass back to where you belong and don't  block people who try to get that id legally.

if it was from my opinion,the trump being elected actually didn't directly affect bitcoin but through the falling of dollar's value and then the price of bitcoin rising because of it,i guess it will stay rising for a long time until USA recover its economic by doing few steps which will give a good impact for them,just wait and see

Donald trump's presidency might really be affecting the bitcoin's price now and might affect long term but I think it there's still a percent where trump will cause some dumps over bitcoin's price but he might also cause a price rise now that some stock market is falling down in price and he might cause uncertainty in stock market, causing investors to look for way to store money and that alternative is bitcoin.

I personally feel that after Trump coming to power we will see a drop in the stock market which we already are sort of seeing, this probably could also lead to a drop in the gold price(which dropped 5-6% as well). However I am expecting to see a boost in the bitcoin price because of the affects on investors from other countries.

I've said this before--because this has been a topic recently--Trump's presidency isn't going to affect bitcoin much.  It's a $10 billion market cap asset that isn't confined to one country.  He can go suck a dick and the price won't move.

There are so many people who feel strongly about this nutjob's presidency, and it gladdens my heart that people are protesting.  I'm truly frightened for the country.

With Clinton anti-bitcoin then yeah, Trump would be for bitcoin to appeal more to the voters during the election. And now that he won it seems to had brought bitcoin up a bit for a little while atleast but now that everything is said and done, it has gone back down to the level before the result of the election was.

Trump politics seems based on hate since he promised to do many things that not in favor for some people, that's why there are demonstrate in the US resist him. Economics does response to political turmoil, we can't say for sure if trump policy could be beneficial for bitcoin long term, but I'm pretty sure that bitcoin price will rise indirect due to his economy policy.
Yeah, we just wait and see what will he do in 100 days as a president, could it be better or worse for bitcoin.

As for me, the best thing that a government could ever do for Bitcoin is to stay away from it entirely, with all their regulations, laws, and rules. Whenever government starts meddling with something, you can be pretty sure the results will be devastating. Also, I don't think that attempts at compromising Bitcoin, its progress or adoption could actually help any of these or make Bitcoin more popular all in all.

In my view, this is no more than a juvenile attitude.

Trump's vision and mission are may different than others people ( sometimes his taught can unexpected people to think )
I can say one, he able notice on bitcoin and bring a bright change for bitcoin

It is too early to know if the effects will be positive, but in the long term I do not see negative points for Bitcoin in this regard. Even if the government tried to compromise Bitcoin's progress, it would simply make bitcoin even more popular.

Of course USA isn't the one having absolute power to controll bitcoin but I guess that they can use the influence they have got among world countries to alter economic policies which can directly may have positive or negative impacts on bitcoin ecosystem, Lets wait what Mr.Trump have planned to shock or surprise us.

I certainly agree that we are speculating here for the most part. But what distinguishes speculation from wishful thinking is the basis on which speculation is founded and the lack of such in case of wishful thinking. Basically, Trump has promised that he is going to restrict imports from China. Will this affect Bitcoin, provided he delivers on his promises? I tend to think that it will, but you are open to disagree, of course.

when people say Trump presidency is beneficial for bitcoin and price to the moon, etc it is mostly a speculation type of thing because we really don't know anything about it yet.

but also it is because Trump is a businessman and has so many plans regarding economy and technology and stuff like that and he has talked about bitcoin too.

so there are some positive stuff in there to lead to that speculation

Trump can not do something for Bitcoin, and also for Chinese goods import in US. Bitcoin have many millions of users in USA, and what can he do. The only thing, which he can do - advert Bitcoin from Whitehouse in TV etc. But 80% will probably forget this after one week.

There is no doubt about that. But what distinguishes gold from Bitcoin is the level of their potential "fall". While Bitcoin may actually collapse a few times, especially if Trump is serious about banning Chinese goods from entering the US markets as well as prohibiting Bitcoin itself, gold is unlikely to suffer massive drop in prices. There are quite a lot of so-called "gold bugs" and pro-gold governments as well which will be start buying gold in massive amounts without a second thought if its price goes down a few hundred dollars.

In my view, gold can hardly fall substantially below $1,000 per ounce.

If he does make "america great again" meaning the dollar then GOLD will drop alongside BTC.

I don't think he should or will wait till markets relax and calm down. If he is going to deliver on his promises, I'm afraid, waiting makes no particular sense. I would rather say he may have to act quick and harsh as he is known to act. If he follows his violent nature, markets will soon get used to the shocks he will likely produce, quickly exhaust their "adrenaline" stores, in a sense, and as quickly return to their baseline levels determined by fundamental factors and usual hype.

Bitcoin is going to go 1000+ dollars next year, it's pretty inevitable at this point. Donald Trump is going to start smooth, to make the markets calm and relax about his election. When things start looking normal and boring again, he will start pushing everything he said in the campaign, and this will start shaking the markets big time, and bitcoin will go to the moon.

I think that a lot of things Trump said during his campaign won't come, or at least not the way he proclaimed it.
Obamacare for example was labled as a desaster by him and that it should be repealed.
Now he has announced that there are a few parts of Obamacare he likes quiet well.
I'm really not sure where we are heading with him. Especially not in terms of economy.

i'm also doubtful whether trump will keep his promise when he's still campaigning himself and make a controversial statement,and now he's becoming USA's president. He will probably forgot what he had said before as easily as deleting his controversial argument from his website

a price rise specially when it is small like smaller than $50 is not called rally!
so the rise after the election results was only a simple rise which was most probably because of the hype that we have been seeing around  bitcoin social media about Trump and the bitcoin price and as you can see the rise has stopped and price is back where it was before.

He is not going to ban the Chinese products directly. In fact, the goods that get exported to the US are actually produced by the American companies such as Apple, Cisco, Qualcomm, etc using cheap labor resources of China, and Trump said that he would impose high protective tariffs so that these companies were more inclined to create jobs in the US itself instead of China.

Banning chinese people has will effect to a bad economy, china are progressive now and they are going to compete with the US. I guess even the bag holders in bitcoin are mostly chinese and that is because my analysis is they are also having a big mining business.

First all I have doubt if Trump can deliver on his promise as banning Chinese products will gave lots of economic effects.
Second bitcoin is independent of most economic moves and I don't think any such decision will have much influence on bitcoin price

I agree. Btc is not dependent on the dollar alone but on fiat. For now. Although we base exchange rates on the dollar, that doesn' t mean that crypto relies on a specific currency.

Dependent on fiat but not for a specific currency. USA may be a big country but we are using here a universal currency which would mean that all adopters from different countries support and use bitcoin, so that statement would prove that it's not only US alone.

I tend to disagree that Bitcoin is somehow dependent on US dollars. You just happen to see it denominated in dollars, and that's why you come to think it depends on it. Regarding the Yuan depending on the US currency, this is simply meaningless. Chinese economy greatly depends on the American markets because of the Chinese exports to the US, but it cuts both ways, anyway. I could just as well claim that the US dollar depends on the Chinese Yuan.

The problem with China is the wages, they pay a low salary and this reflect in the world economy.

I don't think it will reflect in some way in bitcoin, USA isn't a power when you talk about bitcoin.

If he fucks up his job then obviously there will be a weak dollar and therefore bitcoin price will increase accordingly... That is one way of looking at it.


There are already a Trumpcoin and a President Trump coin. Both of which is unofficial, but still benefited greatly from Trump getting elected.

Hey, there already is one on here. If Kanye West gets a crypto shut down then most certainly Donald will as well.

As for his campaign pledges re China, like everything that comes out of mouths during campaigns, I'll believe it when I see it. Foreign trade these days is unfathomably interconnected and untangling it will be a monster of a task.

A TrumpCoin? LOL, that will be hilarious but I don't think is such a good idea to name a coin like that maybe the developers could get in trouble by copyright issues and that is without taking into account that trump will be next US president.

Miners can be affected if Trump's plans succeed in decreasing China's economy but still Bitcoins depend on US dollars rather than any other currency and currently, I can see the bitcoin price only increasing.
Yuan is again dependent on US currency and their economy is anyways slow. Don't think Trump can succeed in harming its economy.

I hope not dude, what is the basis of your statement that you say bitcoin will be affected badly. I think the recent news made the price of bitcoin increase so if we are talking here on how Trump will affect bitcoin, I believe it would be in a positive way.

I don't feel China would be affected largely as besides US, China's economy can be controlled by other international markets too but US does play an important role. I don't trust how will Trump manage to fulfill all his promises as mostly seem uncertain and difficult to achieve. When his win was announced, bitcoin prices rose due to USD and if China's currency is affected, it will affect bitcoins very badly.

If Trump declares war on China and rattle the big Dragons' feathers then it won't take the Chinese long to dump as many dollars as they see fit and bury their riches in Bitcoin. Already we are seeing more and more Chinese love our good old Bitcoin so yeah as Trump comes into power, I SEE A SURGE IN THE BITCOIN VALUE COMING.

Without Trump himself endorsing this coin, it would be no more than a joke. But why would he ever want to approve such a coin if the odds are that it will fail rather sooner than later? On the other hand, HillaryCoin could possibly get some traction before dying, and no one would be particularly upset when it finally kicks the bucket. Though this baby will likely be stillborn.

I do agree with this,the existence of dollars could be threatened by the acceptance of bitcoin in USA and the government will try to prevent it by giving only a little chance for cryptocoins such as btc to be used in USA,and as you know media are spreading bad news about bitcoin from long time ago like it prove that bitcoin actually don' accepted blatantly

There is not and will be not yuan devaluation,markets speculate will Trump stop planned rate rise,
But if Trump want open trade war with China than USA and dollar will be in trouble,it can spike btc price,but USA president is no god or dictator and not decide alone

yeah as united states is like king of the countries and trump now is the leader
he can ask whatever he want as long as it's reasonable
in bitcoin case they may have a reason to close an illegal transaction involving bitcoin
but even in the worst case trump do all this stuff to ban bitcoin i believe people will keep using it.

This was similar to another thread, where they asked if your country banned bitcoin, would you still use it? Also, the idea of a TrumpCoin is very viable and I actually predict it will start being a thing in a couple weeks or so.

Well, it could be possible for governments of the world to make bitcoin transactions illegal, but I don't think they can banned it since they don't have control over the bitcoin network.

lol this is funny, how you expect bitcoin and digital revolutions accepts by trump. If bitcoin araises world level dollar will become nil. bitcoin would accepts by chinese or russian only by first.

Well, it is not really a question of whether the Chinese Yuan is in danger of devaluation. This is exactly what the Chinese government has already been doing recently, at least for a couple of years. The economy of China has been slowing last few years, and devaluing the currency is what they have been trying to do in order to spur on production and exports.

I have read that the Chinese Yuan is backed up by the gold reserves in their treasuries while the US Treasury doesn't have enough gold to back up the US dollar and they are printing bills out of thin air. The Chinese have been gathering insane amounts of cash and I think they have more financial resources now than the western world. I don't think the Yuan is in danger of devaluation, on the contrary it will be more stable than the Euro or the Dollar. Perhaps if Trump closes the borders for Chinese wares China will lose some cash reserves but I don't know how big of a market the USA really is for China.

It is just one of the reasons, the point which I specifically made clear in the OP. Did you read it? Another major reason is the last Bitcoin halving, which has only started to take effect in earnest. If Bitcoin will be considered as a safe haven along with, for example, gold, which seems to be the case, any major currency weakness or market instability will lead to Bitcoin price surge. Though I don't think that the Trump presidency will be a primary cause for this, despite all his pre-election anti-establishment rhetoric.

I trust this forecast. Here, everything is logical. And consider only the collapse of the yuan as a reason for the growth of Bitcoin is not quite true. You need to look wider.

Trump is definitely aware of bitcoin, he received some campaign donations in bitcoins.

There is even an altcoin named Trumpcoin - don't know if he is actually affiliated to the coin.

yeah you're right. trump definitely would notice bitcoin, if he's not aware of it already, as he is one that knows businesses and bitcoin definitely has the potential to have major effects in businesses in the future. we now would just have to wait on how trump will deal with this. hoping for the best here :p

Could you expand more on this? There is no doubt that China will be heavily hit by the US trade embargo, though we have yet to see how severe it will be and whether it will be imposed at all. Miners are basically depending on cheap electricity, and if aggregate production in China declines due to diminishing trade turnover between the US and China. The Chinese miners in fact may get an advantage since the electricity prices might go down thanks to less consumption of electricity be manufacturers and higher competition between energy suppliers.

Im waiting the same   thing too on what would be the steps  he will make  on next  100 days same as  you  mentioned . What would be the effects  on  bitcoins  price. I believe  that  trump  is  a  businessman   and for sure  he would  look  up into  bitcoin  but  its not  sure for now.

A research conducted by the firm Juniper said that the price of bitcoin will increase rapidly this year when Donald Trump was elected president of the United States. Valuation value of bitcoin will increase three-fold from $ 27 billion to $ 92 billion.

The research says that if Trump became US president, this will lead to instability of world markets. The instability of the world market would cause prices to rise bitcoin.

If Trump closes the US markets for Chinese goods the prices in USA will increase in the short term.

Chinese goods are cheaper than American goods and the supply will decrease.

This will hit the China economy and maybe will hit bitcoin mining in China.

Can't wait to see what will be his actions in his first 100 days as a president but I hope that it will be the best for their country. His promises will be the center of attraction especially for the media to see if he can make it happen somehow and it's going to be tough job for Trump.. for the meantime let's enjoy the value of bitcoin price which I believe will be good until the future.

Actually trump seem to be a guy with lots of Patriotism and he may really start banning foreign goods and  may build wall between mexico and american border however as being president of world most powerful country it will be not easy for him to get all his promises done as he also have to make United state Congress to agree upon this and i highly doubt he will get that much support in this things.

However sudden price spike was nice to watch after he got elected, i think there will be lot more good news coming for bitcoin in near future.
 

I think the main reason is that Trump is a business and practical man. He seems to change the rules of current economy world, drive the economy live again, if economy becomes normal, bitcoin and the altcoins can be more popular.
Remember, the world is going to be decentralized and we don't like to be controlled by a small group of so-called elites.

everyone know donald trump is a controversial person
so let's talk about how if donald trump ban every single bitcoin transaction in United States
and then ask another countries to help ban bitcoin because of certain reason
as far as i know donald trump politic strategy is based on hate .

China is facing restrictions all over the world against their citizens in how they are stashing money outside the country.
Really not that sure how easy it is for people to get at bitcoin that are more rural but I plead ignorance as to how much they can afford to put in as well. So I am not to sure but China and Russia are always a hard egg to crack for me when it comes to anything.

That's exactly it. It's the four years of 'holy crap what are we going to do now. Tuck your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye' coming up. I could see a more steady longterm rise coming from Trump being voted in or a spike everytime he does something to 'shake it up'.

In contrast to what you may believe initially, Bitcoin's exposure will likely continue as it would no matter the president in power.

Mainly because this currency isn't majority controlled by any government... As like with the boom of WWW, BTC + other cryptocurrencies are now at the point to never be stalled out.

Many hybrid startups are bringing the digital world around us so we can interact with them in real life. Don't doubt benefits because of his business experience or political philosophy, there is always more set to come.

a businessman turn to a president of biggest country and strongest economy in the world , of course there is must a connection and effect to bitcoin and other cryptocurrency as this is part of economic and business.

maybe not direct effect or direct policy from this new american president for bitcoin , as we may know china always related to bitcoin development and every single trump policy to china cooperation i am sure it will take effect to bitcoin.

Politicians around the world are known mostly for one thing, to not deliver on their campaign promises, that is a common theme  and I don't think Trump is going to be an exception that does not mean that some actions are not going to be taken but to think he will close the US markets to Chinese goods is too much.

The stock markets have recovered from the first shock, but now it is important which economic policy Trump really wants. If he does what he has announced, then this could lead to a recession in America and the world. He also wants to reduce the debt through reflation, which means a depreciation of the currency. This could be a breakthrough of Bitcoin and cryptocoins.

It obvious that the rise of Bitcoin that we have seen lately is due the fact that Donald Trump was finally elected as US president, as we saw exactly at the same time all the markets going down.

This is GREAT news for Bitcoin, since it is now consolidated as a robust safe haven against political uncertainty, and Trump will be 4 years of political uncertainty since he isn't part of the establishment.

There must be some connections as Trump is known for different economic policies which may support alternate investments to flourish. Usually markets reacts to political changes, I believe today bitcoins prices up surged with a similar reason.

Good observation here.They might buying bitcoin for the coming uncertainties in Trump administration or they are buying  bitcoin for they have trust Mr Trump But for me, whoever the American President,bitcoin may continue to grow, that is for sure.

I don't think this is connected to Trump beeing elected for president. Price already was on the way up so this would probably happen anyway. Because  I realy can't see how this two things are connected.
As far as campaign promises are in question, I think things would change and he will not do what he was saying. Campaign and real life are two opposite things.

It's hard to tell, but one thing I notice is that when Trump was declared as the new President of the US the price of bitcoin rallies up. I guess there's is something that we need to know on why that big news dictate the price of bitcoin.

Among his many campaign promises as a candidate for the US presidency, Donald Trump has also been promising to close the US markets for the Chinese goods, at least partially. That, according to him, will help restore American jobs that he accused China of stealing. If he ever lives up to his promises and actually does something to that tune, it will certainly cause further devaluation of Yuan, the national currency of China. But the Yuan devaluation seems to be one of the primary drivers behind the growth of Bitcoin for the last two years, along with the reward halving.

What are your opinions on the consequences of his economic policy in regard to Bitcoin and its price in the long term?