Why US Government Emerges As One Of The Largest Bitcoin Holders

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Quote from: wiss19 on June 30, 2024, 10:19:10 PM

To be fair, they are not technically "owners" of it, remember government holds these for purposes of paying back the ones that got hurt. Reasons vary from people committing fraud, to crimes to many other stuff, and government seized it, only so that they could repay the people who have been hurt by those people who committed the illegal act. Like the whole MT.Gox thing, people say government "owned" it back in the day, all the coins they can, but look now, it is going to be given to the public.

So they do not have the right to buy and sell, play like a trader or retail investor. It's just temporarily in their possession but it is going to change for sure, that is the most important part and I believe that it is going to be quite cool to see them part ways soon.

I don't think the government will find a way to return those bitcoins to the owners. I think the bitcoins they confiscated from the criminals all went into government funds and they are already the current owners of them so it can be said that they are the holders. As OP also mentioned, the US government once sold 195,061BTC and earned 366 million USD, it can be seen that they used them as a real owner.

If the government is indeed holding Mt.gox victims' bitcoins and they intend to return them. Why hasn't anyone received their BTC back even though 10 years have passed? I know that there was an announcement about Mt.gox releasing bitcoins this month but the victims only received 20% and the value of those bitcoins was calculated at the time Mt.gox declared bankruptcy and not the current price. Do you know how bad that is?

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Quote from: avikz on June 27, 2024, 12:47:23 AM

I don't remember the US government buying bitcoin, ever! Or am I missing something?

Nope you didn’t.

The bitcoin the USA holds is not through purchases but from cybercrimes. They most likely don’t care whether bitcoin goes up or not. They are not holding it for profit or as an investment opportunity but they are holding it because of legal causes.

People should learn how to differentiate holding for profit and just seizing it from “criminals”. USA’s stance on bitcoin or crypto at large remains pretty much the same.

wiss19

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To be fair, they are not technically "owners" of it, remember government holds these for purposes of paying back the ones that got hurt. Reasons vary from people committing fraud, to crimes to many other stuff, and government seized it, only so that they could repay the people who have been hurt by those people who committed the illegal act. Like the whole MT.Gox thing, people say government "owned" it back in the day, all the coins they can, but look now, it is going to be given to the public.

So they do not have the right to buy and sell, play like a trader or retail investor. It's just temporarily in their possession but it is going to change for sure, that is the most important part and I believe that it is going to be quite cool to see them part ways soon.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the US is holding BTC intentionally and for profit. I think they just didn't get to selling it yet, but these are just funds they seized from criminal activities, and they will be sold at some point (regardless of the price at that point). So they are holders only technically speaking, but not really. The same might apply to some other countries on the list. The fact of keeping some BTC doesn't legitimize BTC and doesn't demonstrate willingness to accept it or whatever.

Plaguedeath

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Seems like only El Salvador that obtain by purchase it using their money, because the other country who own Bitcoin didn't publicize if they buy Bitcoin, so they might own Bitcoin by "stealing" from the criminals.

Quote from: Maslate on June 27, 2024, 04:20:26 AM

While India owns the most bitcoin based on their actual number of crypto owners, the US government still got the highest bitcoin ownership which were all seized from criminals.

Many Indians owns Bitcoin because their government support the citizen to study in computer science and they're want to escape from India due to social class. So, it influence them to learn about Bitcoin.

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Quote from: DaveF on June 27, 2024, 06:57:01 AM

Besides the US government is not anti BTC. It's anti not getting paid on the profits people make with BTC
They just want their cut of everything.

-Dave

Thanks Dave for making me remember why they are selling those Bitcoins. They cut they seek is what is called extortion or extorting. Some say that the government itself is a mafia that uses its own legal branches to make money for them. Which according to my point of view is correct. It is why most countries globally are now no more fearing with the consequences from the US. They are now independent with allies that are after the US government.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on June 27, 2024, 06:45:57 AM

The US government has recently transferred seized 3940BTC to Coinbase. According to the article they are going to sell those Bitcoins which confuses me as the SEC has been after cryptocurrency exchanges in the US, government while them to sell illegal Bitcoin. Don't you think it is a hypocrisy as in a way they are extorting money from exchange operating in the US in the name of fines. The next thing they are doing is using the same exchange to sell Bitcoin.

Back in the olden days (2000) Sony sued and attacked itself: https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/sony-vs-sony/

This is similar, since the government has clear cut rules about what they must do with seized property auction if it's legal, destroy if not, then they have to sell it off.

They usually just have their own auctions, surprised they are now using Coinbase. But, since they are international it might just be to bring in more bidders then doing it themselves.

Besides the US government is not anti BTC. It's anti not getting paid on the profits people make with BTC
They just want their cut of everything.

https://www.newsweek.com/irs-asks-americans-report-income-illegal-activities-1871446

-Dave

pakhitheboss

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The US government has recently transferred seized 3940BTC to Coinbase. According to the article they are going to sell those Bitcoins which confuses me as the SEC has been after cryptocurrency exchanges in the US, government while them to sell illegal Bitcoin. Don't you think it is a hypocrisy as in a way they are extorting money from exchange operating in the US in the name of fines. The next thing they are doing is using the same exchange to sell Bitcoin.

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Quote from: Sceptre_ on June 26, 2024, 07:56:52 PM

The U.S. government's involvement in the BitcoinBTC market has been notable, with Jameson Lopp, co-founder of Casa, tracking their activities since 2014. The government has seized and sold at least 195,091 BitcoinsBTC, making a profit of over $366 million. Currently, it holds 213,546 BitcoinsBTC, valued at over $13 billion, positioning it as one of the largest BitcoinBTC holders globally. This significant holding underscores a growing acceptance of cryptocurrencies as a legitimate asset class. Meanwhile, the German government holds 46,359 BitcoinsBTC, making it the fourth-largest sovereign BitcoinBTC holder behind China and the UK. These substantial holdings by major governments highlight an increasing interest and involvement in the cryptocurrency market, reflecting a broader trend of recognizing BitcoinBTC as a strategic financial asset. The legitimization of BitcoinBTC by such influential entities not only impacts market dynamics but also suggests an evolving regulatory landscape and a shift in economic strategies to include digital currencies.

The government is just interested in seizing, selling and making a profit from Bitcoin. Besides El Salvador, I don't think there is any other nation that has shown genuine interest in investing in Bitcoin. However, they are interested in attracting Bitcoin-related businesses so that they can create employment and increase tax revenue. This is the reason why many countries have increased regulation and also approved some Bitcoin-related services like the ETF. The government will only be interested in the Bitcoin they can control.

Quote from: Maslate on June 27, 2024, 04:20:26 AM

While India owns the most bitcoin based on their actual number of crypto owners, the US government still got the highest bitcoin ownership which were all seized from criminals. So it’s not that they actually value the huge amount of bitcoin because they see it as an investment or currency, but more on these confiscated bitcoins are just being used as evidence or proceeds of the crime. They don’t hold bitcoins to say that they are pro-bitcoin, in fact they are always against with how the nature of bitcoin works.

It is true that it was confiscated from suspect criminal activities but the government values it. Some of them are hodling it for a long time so that they can make a profit from it. They are aware that the price will appreciate which is why they are keeping these Bitcoins. They might not be pro-Bitcoin, but they know it is profitable. The recent increase in the price of Bitcoin has given the German government a profit of about $1.1 billion from their hodling, that's big money.

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Quote from: 348Judah on June 27, 2024, 03:47:18 AM

Quote from: Sceptre_ on June 26, 2024, 07:56:52 PM

Snipped

All they have seized are not their investments and we have no account on what exactly they are doing with those asset seized and sold, more so, the US government is not the highest holder, because they don't invest neither do they support for bitcoin adoption or use as a legal tender, they have been rather busy going about instituting regulations, sanctions seizures and tax on all bitcoin related activities.

While India owns the most bitcoin based on their actual number of crypto owners, the US government still got the highest bitcoin ownership which were all seized from criminals. So it’s not that they actually value the huge amount of bitcoin because they see it as an investment or currency, but more on these confiscated bitcoins are just being used as evidence or proceeds of the crime. They don’t hold bitcoins to say that they are pro-bitcoin, in fact they are always against with how the nature of bitcoin works.

348Judah

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Quote from: Sceptre_ on June 26, 2024, 07:56:52 PM

Snipped

All they have seized are not their investments and we have no account on what exactly they are doing with those asset seized and sold, more so, the US government is not the highest holder, because they don't invest neither do they support for bitcoin adoption or use as a legal tender, they have been rather busy going about instituting regulations, sanctions seizures and tax on all bitcoin related activities.

Anita Marshal1

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The US government’s emergence as one of the largest Bitcoin holders is a multifaceted development driven by asset seizures from criminal activities, regulatory actions, and strategic considerations. While this accumulation may seem at odds with the decentralized ethos of Bitcoin, it highlights the growing significance of cryptocurrencies in both criminal enterprises and legitimate economic systems. As the government continues to navigate the complexities of the digital currency landscape, its Bitcoin holdings may offer unique advantages in regulation, security, and economic strategy. Similarly, for those looking to stay informed and connected, joining https://whatgroups.com/binance-whatsapp-group-link/ can provide valuable insights and updates on the ever-evolving cryptocurrency market.

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Quote from: avikz on June 27, 2024, 12:47:23 AM

The US government has become one of the largest Bitcoin holders through the seizure of Bitcoins linked to illegal activities, such as those involving darknet markets and cybercrime. Since 2014, it has confiscated and auctioned significant amounts of Bitcoin, which you have already mentioned above. This huge amount of holding underscores the government's role in the cryptocurrency market and somehow reflects a broader trend of recognizing Bitcoin as a legitimate asset class. Other major governments, like Germany, China, and the UK, are also doing the same!

Not sure, if it will bring in the legitimacy of Bitcoin in US but I can only sense that the US government will keep on confiscating Bitcoins and auction them to fill their coffers!

Yeah and once those bitcoins are "auctioned" then they suddenly become clean, huh.

I wonder if that could be a loophole in chainanalysis, where people buy off auctioned bitcoins and use them to start a mixer or something like a coordinator that gives you "clean" inputs or, in this case, inputs that have bene manually whitelisted by those companies as a result of said auction.

moneystery

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even though they hold that much bitcoin, that doesn't make them the largest bitcoin holders in the world since they got it from confiscation, not through investments like those made by large entities who hold hundreds of thousands of bitcoin. the involvement of these countries in bitcoin is not because they are interested in it like el salvador, but because of various criminal acts that use bitcoin as a means of transaction/money laundering. and even if they hold that much bitcoin, it doesn't have a significant impact on the bitcoin market.

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Quote from: Sceptre_ on June 26, 2024, 07:56:52 PM

The U.S. government's involvement in the BitcoinBTC market has been notable, with Jameson Lopp, co-founder of Casa, tracking their activities since 2014. The government has seized and sold at least 195,091 BitcoinsBTC, making a profit of over $366 million. Currently, it holds 213,546 BitcoinsBTC, valued at over $13 billion, positioning it as one of the largest BitcoinBTC holders globally. This significant holding underscores a growing acceptance of cryptocurrencies as a legitimate asset class. Meanwhile, the German government holds 46,359 BitcoinsBTC, making it the fourth-largest sovereign BitcoinBTC holder behind China and the UK. These substantial holdings by major governments highlight an increasing interest and involvement in the cryptocurrency market, reflecting a broader trend of recognizing BitcoinBTC as a strategic financial asset. The legitimization of BitcoinBTC by such influential entities not only impacts market dynamics but also suggests an evolving regulatory landscape and a shift in economic strategies to include digital currencies.

I don't remember the US government buying bitcoin, ever! Or am I missing something?

The US government has become one of the largest Bitcoin holders through the seizure of Bitcoins linked to illegal activities, such as those involving darknet markets and cybercrime. Since 2014, it has confiscated and auctioned significant amounts of Bitcoin, which you have already mentioned above. This huge amount of holding underscores the government's role in the cryptocurrency market and somehow reflects a broader trend of recognizing Bitcoin as a legitimate asset class. Other major governments, like Germany, China, and the UK, are also doing the same!

Not sure, if it will bring in the legitimacy of Bitcoin in US but I can only sense that the US government will keep on confiscating Bitcoins and auction them to fill their coffers!

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Quote from: Sceptre_ on June 26, 2024, 07:56:52 PM

The U.S. government's involvement in the BitcoinBTC market has been notable,
The government has seized and sold at least 195,091 BitcoinsBTC

That is NOT called "involvement in the market".
The government has also seized a lot of illegal narcotics and drug money. That doesn't mean they are involved in drug trafficking market!

The actual "involvement" and the biggest is still El Salvador because the government has actually made an investment in bitcoin and they see it as an investment. What US government sees those bitcoin as is NOT an investment, it sees it as some valuable items seized from criminals that are waiting for the court order as the process completes to be auctioned and liquidated the moment the order comes. That order may come when bitcoin has crashed and they sell those nonetheless since as I said it is NOT an investment.

BTW 195k bitcoin seized in 15 years is not that big. The US border petrol alone seizes an annual amount of $50 to $70 million cash (that's about a billion in 15 years). https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/currency-other-monetary-instrument-seizures
The sum of what they seize is so massive that this amount of bitcoin is like a drop in the ocean.

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Quote from: Sceptre_ on June 26, 2024, 07:56:52 PM

The U.S. government's involvement in the BitcoinBTC market has been notable, with Jameson Lopp, co-founder of Casa, tracking their activities since 2014. The government has seized and sold at least 195,091 BitcoinsBTC, making a profit of over $366 million.

There are many websites to track Bitcoin treasuries of many entities include the US. government. Not only Jameson Lopp does it.

I list some sites for you.
https://newhedge.io/terminal/bitcoin/treasuries
https://www.coinglass.com/BitcoinTreasuries
https://bitcointreasuries.net/
https://bitcointreasuries.com/

Seize and sell, then call it as profit, I don't consider it as profit.

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Technically, any agency can be called "government" I don't think any of this is signaling an official stance of how the government "views" bitcoin. Different agencies have always sold assets.

A lot of politicians played online poker, and the us government never specifically prohibited it, until one day"Black Friday" operators were facing charges. Which always seemed weird that people could be charged for breaking laws implemented after the fact.

Ijs i wouldn't put a lot of stock into the perceived stance of the us government. esp since 13billion is a crumb to them.

But i would say a lot of the smaller countries with weaker economies investing in it is a big sign. They believe it's a good investment to create wealth for their country.

Sceptre_

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The U.S. government's involvement in the BitcoinBTC market has been notable, with Jameson Lopp, co-founder of Casa, tracking their activities since 2014. The government has seized and sold at least 195,091 BitcoinsBTC, making a profit of over $366 million. Currently, it holds 213,546 BitcoinsBTC, valued at over $13 billion, positioning it as one of the largest BitcoinBTC holders globally. This significant holding underscores a growing acceptance of cryptocurrencies as a legitimate asset class. Meanwhile, the German government holds 46,359 BitcoinsBTC, making it the fourth-largest sovereign BitcoinBTC holder behind China and the UK. These substantial holdings by major governments highlight an increasing interest and involvement in the cryptocurrency market, reflecting a broader trend of recognizing BitcoinBTC as a strategic financial asset. The legitimization of BitcoinBTC by such influential entities not only impacts market dynamics but also suggests an evolving regulatory landscape and a shift in economic strategies to include digital currencies.

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