Topic: Why USA Should Supply more Offensive Weapons to Ukraine (Read 456 times)

It was unlikely that that was his plan - he wanted to capture Ukraine in 2 weeks
I don't think Putin started the game solo. There was collusion to surrender of Ukraine since 2014 between Putin and a number of corrupt governments. But Trump got in the way. And in 2022, they unexpectedly faced the refusal of President Zelensky to escape from Ukraine, the heroic resistance of the Ukrainians and the active help of Boris Johnson.

In the US, people are waking up about how to bypass government in a whole lot of things. It hasn't gotten to cold fusion yet, but it might sometime. Private Membership Association - https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=Private+Membership+Association.

I don't think energy lobby would ever allow an electric car that charges itself with cold fusion. Maybe if it's so heavily taxed that running it equals owning a ICE car. It's probably going to be a mix of hybrids, ICE's, EV's and hydrogen cars. But fully electric future is hardly possible.

The West's answer might be fusion, both cold and hot. Here are 3 interesting links that show that usable fusion in the home and car might be just around the corner... or here already... if we could only push governments and industry into manufacturing it.

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/337064-2022-12-16-first-light-fusion-technical-talks-on-projectile-fusion.htm

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/337052-2022-12-15-exclusive-hot-fusion-breakthrough-only-allowed-because-of-cold-fusion.htm

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/337115-2022-12-17-cold-fusion-could-allow-your-electric-car-to-charge-itself.htm

Putin is definitely playing the long game here. And you're right - Russians can handle a lot more grief. Certainly more than westerners. He has three things - people, gas and oil. Last two things in practically unlimited quantities. The west however, and by that mostly Europe, will have to use every imaginable trick to secure gas for each winter from 2022 forward. Given how sensitive geopolitical situation is, other natural gas suppliers might leverage that and secure beneficial deals for them, and those deals might not be so beneficial for Europe. All in all, the west is underestimating Russia, and even making fun of it. Not so smart.

^^^ In keeping within the topic, Putin can't wait for more weapons to be sent to Ukraine. The more that are sent, the poorer the nations who send them become.

Putin knows that his Russia can handle a lot more grief. So he's laughing all the way to the bank from:
1. The weapons he steals from Ukraine and sells or uses;
2. The unaccounted-for cash flow that makes it from Ukraine to Russia;
3. BRICS and the new nations that want to join her;
4. The new gas pipeline to China... and soon to Mongolia and other parts of China;
5. All kinds of innovative advances that will make Russia strong... because of the war.

In fact, Putin is scared MOST that the sending of money and weapons to Ukraine will stop too soon. Just think if the people of the US and Europe could control their banking and their governments... and shut down weapons to Ukraine. All the West nations might just rescue themselves from financial destruction. And that is what scares Putin the most. Not the Ukraine military and their feeble attempts to do something bad to Russia.

It was obvious from the start that Putin will not abandon his adventure.

He has to be captured or killed like any other serial killer dictator.

The world needs to be cleansed from Rashists.

The United States is obliged to provide all possible assistance to Ukraine in accordance with the Budapest Memorandum. But the Biden (,?) Obama administrations are not doing that.

Give a monkey a typewriter, and he's liable to spell a word sometime.

Give the Ukrainian military some weapons, and they're liable to bash a few Russians once in a while.

LOL...

Ukrainian forces killed 28 Russian troops and destroyed one T-62 tank, one radar station, one fuel tanker, and other military vehicles. According to the Independent Newspaper, Kiev.

⚡️Ukraine’s military strikes cluster of Russian forces in Kherson Oblast.

Ukraine’s Operational Command “South” reported on June 18 that it carried out four air raids in southern Ukraine.

Don't forget the part about the sanctions against Russia, sanctions that are making Russia rich, and weakening the West, through Russia increasing the price for the West to do business with her, to get the supplies the West needs from her. You seem to forget the vast amounts of mineral rich land Russia owns... Siberia. Russia is just playing around with the West and her Ukraine sort-of ally.

There's only one outcome for this war which is the inevitable further disintegration of the Russia Federation. Putin played into the USA hands without knowing it by opening up an indirect war front against the USA. The consequence is that US will continue to directly or indirectly sponsor the Ukraine to wage this war until Russia is completely weakened. Similar to what we did with the Afghans against same Russia.

While that is going on, the CIA is probably working on one, two or more serious oppositions against the Putin's regime. Soon he'll be waging real wars and political wars on multiple fronts.

With the American support, Ukraine is ready and willing to fight for years. And there'll be unlimited supply of weapons from the USA. China would have suffered the same faith but seems to be wise enough to not have engaged Taiwan.

ONLY TWO OPTIONS EXISTS FOR PUTIN

1. Withdraw from Ukraine with tail behind his back. Go home and continue to build his country to be great while enjoying his lifetime presidency in peace.

2. Continue with this mess until Russia is fully disintegrated.

The choice is his to make and he got to be wise about it. You simply can't defeat The USA in proxy wars. They've tried it before and failed and this can't be any different.

It looks like arms donations to Ukraine are dying out. There are what seem to be demands, but nobody is following through on the demands. It will be interesting to see if Biden listens to the demands and really does it.


NATO Summit Demands: More Weapons For Ukraine!




NATO Summit Demands: More Weapons For Ukraine!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5kNFBsCTMM

True true.
After he told me that Ukraine is attacking russian cities from 2014, I've come to the same conclusion as you and just add this dude to my ignore list.

He's even worse. You must be new here so I'll explain in a few words.
This guy is insane. I mean literally nuts. He constantly posts some absolute nonsense taken from shady websites mixed with conspiracy theories and qanon bs. You'll never have a dialogue with him so Id suggest to avoid at all costs.

>>fast food workers will be getting $100 per hour

It's a good money. You should finally get a job.

Supplying Ukraine with more offensive weapons, will simply give more to Russia as they gradually take the Ukraine over. The Russia can sell them on the black market and make a big profit.

I've said it time and again, you can't stop this war by appeasing Russia and Putin. The world should rise up in full force against the Kremlin and crush them with maximum force. They started the war without any predicate. Therefore, the world shouldn't take permission from them to end the war.

Forget about nuclear weapons. Russia is not too stupid to play with their own annihilation by attempting nuclear confrontation with the USA. Yes, Russian has thousands of stockpiles but America has the best and far superior nuclear defense system and Russia knows it. USA also has the best and the most efficient means to deliver nuclear warheads.

Attach Russia from all fronts and watch them crumble. Appeasing them will only prolong the Ukrainians suffering. Opening a new front in Georgia, Chechnya, Finland, Kaliningrad, and Kamchatka like you said will box Russia into a corner and quickly bring this war to an end. Same as with Germany and Japan.

Putin's Russia can only be stopped by force.

All Western countries should intervene in Ukraine to destroy the Russian army, once and for all.

New fronts should be opened in Georgia, Chechnya, Finland, Kaliningrad, and Kamchatka. All at once.

Result when Ukraine gets more weapons will be better!
Because Ukraine will have more opportunities to gain terretory back and drive out russian opressors.

Like when russians marched towards Kyiv to occupy it, Ukraine achieved to push out russians out of ukrainian terretory. Now, it's peace around Kyiv.
Ukraine needs more weapons immediately to push all ruZZians back to RuZZia.

Putin should just leave Ukraine, Putin is a war criminal. He is not allowed to start a war against Ukraine.
It's like Hitler was not allowed to start a war.
Same for Putin.
He's a war criminal.

^^^ Probably they won't nuke each other. Nuking is for far-away fighting. They are right next door, and will continue to fight, man-to-man, until there aren't any Ukrainian fighters left.

As it is, there are a lot of Ukrainian sympathizers who are fighting for Ukraine, in Ukraine's various militaries. So, it has become more and more of a war between several countries... being fought on Ukrainian land.

Since they are getting more and more supplies in the past months, the war will never end soon and the result will be even worse in the upcoming days. Obviously what the west is doing is plain like colorless water, they wanted to weaken the Russian force with this war and when Russia is weakened, they will further stretch and continue to further support Ukraine and in the last part of this decisive war, they will gonna join and obviously claim the victory. What really concerns me is when they started to nuke each other, though we are miles and miles away from them, we will be affected and mostly our economy will fall.

I certainly don't know what is going to happen in the future... just like everybody else. But as of right now, the Ukraine is losing 200-300 soldiers to death, daily. Even Zelensky admits 60 to 100.

This has nothing to do with how many Russian soldiers die each day. But it seems that at this time in the war, Russians are dying less frequently.

Supplying more weapons to the Ukraine will only push Russia into using heavier artillery, even if the weapons get to the Ukraine in a short time. This means a larger death toll for all of Ukraine, and its break-up much sooner than if it surrendered.

Look here to see one of the major reasons for the war - https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/327006-2022-06-12-breaking-the-pentagon-admits-to-46-biolabs-in-ukraine.htm. It shows why the US is pushing for an Ukraine victory as hard as it has been.

Your argument is that Ukraine young soldiers are going to die if they get the supply of modern offensive weapons but will live and be very ok if no weapon is provided to them? I guess you're a terrible Russian propagandist who's so bad at his job that he needs to be fired twice for doing a bad job.

Congress isn't so dumb that they don't know the below stuff. Rather, they need something like this for one very important reason. The whole fiat USD money and banking system is a Ponzi. While it looks like give-away money to us, there is a really intricate mess of borrowing and loaning money going on here. It keeps the Federal Reserve Bank alive. I mean, we wouldn't want all those oil dollars to suddenly become worthless, now would we.


ENDLESS LIES: Top Ukrainian official admits to lying about Russians raping Ukrainians in effort to obtain more weapons from West

U.S. is already too committed. This would have been the best strategy in March when the invasion began, but they slowly began the "harsh" rhetoric campaign against Putin that was not supported by actual arms. Then the arms came, and the U.S. entered a proxy war with Russia. Even the conservatives in the U.S. house/senate were split on sending 40 billion worth of aid to Ukraine. The isolationists against the warmongers. How much of that 40 billion will end up in the briefcase of a corrupt Ukrainian official? Something like 16 billion of those funds were sent for economic relief, not military aid. Would be great to know exactly how those funds were being spent.

You're wrong


Yep. As a man from here i can definitely tell "yes".


About Biden i have some bad assumptions, but we will see is this true in near future.


So, you're trying to tell me that in ukrainian interest is to surrender and be tortured, raped and killed. Good try but no.


The main problem, and the biggest one, is that without weapons or not, ukrainians still victim. And the worst situation is in occupied area. Firstly, russians kills all those who are not loyal or have pro-ukrainian view (i know cases from my the circle of people i know). Secondly, because russian are very bad at planning and infrastructure, they create humanitarian problems on occupied territories. I know relatives in Berdyansk, and they tell that situation in the city are very bad: lack of food, water and medicine. Russians not allow to import this things from ukrainian territory, but for some reasons don't fulfil this goods from their territory.

So, your main idea is to left ukrainians without weapons to create more Berdyansks. Brilliant plan.

No thanks.  I think more American assets in Ukraine is a bad idea, but I appreciate the invite. 

I'm not saying that Ukraine isn't the victim or that Russia isn't the aggressor.  I'm saying that sending Ukraine more weapons so they can live in this uncomfortable position for longer just to hurt Russia's finances as a way for the USA to hurt Russia's future is not fair to Ukrainians. 

Do you really think that having more weapons would help Ukraine end this war faster?  Even Biden came out publicly and said that we can't stop Russia from doing whatever they want with Ukraine.  All we can do is make it take longer and be more expensive.  Neither of those things are in the best interests of the Ukrainian people. 

If you want my no holds barred take on the situation, USA should tell Russia we're either going to stay the hell out of your affairs, or we're going to launch a full scale war against you if you attack our allies.  I don't believe in this proxy war bullshit because the wrong people end up being victims, in this case Ukrainians.

It's so sad that all these nice, young, Ukrainian soldiers have to die in training, but what else could anyone expect? Wishes and hopes don't make what is happening. And what is happening is that the part of the Ukraine that has become corrupt is failing. But the whole war is a cover for other things that are going on.


Ukraine President's Inner Circle Buying Multi-Million $ Mansions in Switzerland!

The best training - is on the battlefield. USA and other countries before supplying weapons to Ukraine, teach out soldiers at first. And after that our army practicing against orcs hordes 

So yeah, the best way to teach ukrainian military is to provide more heavy weaponry to it.

Easy. But without proper training (and not a daily course) Ukraine army with high-tech weapons will be mishitting everything as stormtroopers

No matter what Russia did, you cannot support to it with words. Ukraine calls it an invasion, and they are right to call it so. Though they have right to defend them, how long will their minnow army be able to compete against Russian big military forces?

However, the USA's resources in Ukraine are based on more diplomatic reasons than human factors.

As Russian forces close in on capturing a key city, the U.S. is providing Ukraine with weapons it has long sought to shoot down aircraft and knock out artillery.

What if it isn't the U.S.? There must be someone who supports the Ukrainian people.

What is happening? Kiev is slowly fading away, but nobody is helping them. Russian will not succeed if they assist them earlier. They need more resources than mere promises.

For one thing. Ukraine is fighting with great wills, and have the guts to challenge the Russia army with average Weaponry. They have killed tens of generals, taken countless of tanks and destroyed many. Repelled the invaders from towns after towns. They did all these with near mediocre weapons. Now, imagine them being equipped with advanced high-tech offensive made in the USA weapons? Dispossessing them off the sophisticated weapons will be nothing short of suicide missions.

Why USA Should Supply more Offensive Weapons to Ukraine


Russia needs to build its arsenal. Now they can do this easily... by taking the US weapons away from the Ukrainians as the Ukrainian soldiers surrender.

You should came here, to Ukraine, and watch it by yourself. Maybe in that case you'll stop all your shitty takes about "proxy", "global games" etc. We have aggressor and victim.

When your ass in comfort and without a chance to be hit by a missile it's good condition for such sophisticated talks.

Lol, what I've found:


yep, because of that he's sitting on a long long table




and also look at that:


At zhirinovsky's (russian far right) politican  funeral when putin came to coffin, honor guard dissapeared. Many westerners asks "Why?". The answer is easy: putin is afraid to be killed by some sneaky assasin.

Right!

The USA is a free country... free for the good people and free for the bad people, free for the powerful and free for the weak. And let's keep her that way.

...or... hear me out...  The USA could choose to mind their own business and worry about supplying more offensive weapons to their own citizenry so that we never have to worry about anyone trying to infringe on our basic human rights like the people from Ukraine are now feeling.  That would be crazy right?  Imagine a government supplying their own citizens with weapons...  Better to use Ukraine as a proxy and let those people suffer, right?

It doesn't matter which side of the fence you're on.  War by big governments is wrong and we all lose, because it only leads to more government control.  Politicians are caught in a feedback loop with the military industrial complex to line their pockets and just for fun politicians have decided that letting big pharma onto their teats would really make them rich.  Next up will be food (it's already started, our supply chain is currently under attack), then housing (inflation/deflation anyone?).  I only hope that Bitcoin proves to be the lifeline it is claimed to be.  I have my doubts, but it seems we'll have our answer in the next 1-3 years.

The ONLY way to stop this aggression is to kill ALL aggressors as it is clear by now they will not stop.

There is no other way.

Ukrainians are not aggressors, they are defenders. We have a moral duty to help them in any way we can.

Defending against aggression is not aggression.

Russians waged wars of aggression for hundreds of years.  Even during WWII.

They are the country of aggressors.  Even today, the majority of Russians (even those who are not ethnic Russki) support aggression
against others.

I would stay home and protect my family at all cost. But I would not go out to enemy house to make a diversion or try to attack him there.

I know the life is not a movie, but have you seen movie Felon? Our discussed situation. A robber sneaked into a house and tried to ran away later. Main character chased him, tried to stop him outside his house, accidentally hit him with a bat to the head and killed him. Got into the jail. The society though he is more dangerous than a robber, because his actions continued aggression. In your case, if he USA supply Ukraine with weapons to attack Russia, what makes Ukraine different from Russia? They are attackers now. Isnt it? Should the world put sanctions against them also? Ban them from getting into EU or NATO? Who needs a neighbour that can turn from victim to an attacker in one second?

Why USA Should Supply more Offensive Weapons to Ukraine


There is one major reason why. Provides more jobs for American war machine manufacturers. Bring the US economy back up, even if it is through manufacturing war machines. I should get a job in that industry. I don't know what those guys get paid, but it should be at least $100 per hour.

Btw, with inflation going like it is and is going to be, soon fast food workers will be getting $100 per hour.

Only agressor can stop this war it any moment. Victim have only two options: to die or to keep figthing for it's own life. Period


really good idea, this how it works in most cases. If i have a gun it's more unlikely you will try to rob my house.


Your statement tha same as: "jews, stop protecting yourself, nazi propaganda will 100 % point on this"!
The problem is that russian propaganda already tells that ukrainians is not allowed to live. And ukrainian question must be solved (yeah, with no joke, the same as nazis told about "jewish question")
And Russia already invided Ukraine, so i doubt it can do things worse.


This "hypersonic nuclear weapons" exists only in russian cartoons for Putin (with all other russian wunderwaffe). You should stop watch them already.

It's good to call for peace. We all love a peaceful world that is free of warfare. But has calling for peace ever worked in this scenario? I believe they should be some form of deterrence while we continue to call for peace and explore every negotiation tactics.



The analogy may not be perfect but let's assume there's no police to be called. All you have is your ability to defend yourself or attack back. Bear in mind the attack will continue days after days with no police to be called. What would you do?

LOL. Definitely not trying to destroy neighbours house, because he can hire a bulldozer and destroy your house completely. Do you know difference between attacking and defending your property? If someone breaks into your house, would you call a police or wait until burglar leaves, or make him leave, and then break into his house ? Using same strategy enemy did is your choice? Piece is the only strategy or solution.


This is called not protecting, but spreading havoc

What will a third neighbour think about both of you? If both are doing havoc, how can you tell who is bad and who is good? Both should be put under control.

Supplying more offensive weapons would escalate the war which would lead to more loss of lives and properties. Russia has in stock some hypersonic nuclear weapons that can reach most of the NATO nations including the US. NATO and the US also have the same military capabilities. The best option now is peace which can be triggered by dialogue and compromise. Russia and Ukraine have learnt their lessons. At least Russia now know that Ukraine is not as weak as it thought. They expected that war to last for few weeks but Ukraine has proved that they have the military capacity to fight this war for years. Ukraine has also learnt that NATO would only give average assistance and would never join the fight against Russia. They have also learnt that it is Ukraine that bears the pains and scars of the war. What we need now is peace.   

You live next to a neighbor who woke up one day and started raining stones and bottles in your house,  breaking your roof and hitting your children and wife and injuring some. He continues without let up, and even coming closer and closer.

What would you do in this scenario?

Try to defend your compound with trampoline and give your children umbrella for protection? Giving him all the freedom in world to keep kitting your home while his own household goes about in total freedom and safety.

Or you hit back at his own house, wrecking equal havoc while protecting your home?

Which do you think would be more effective strategy?

What about calls to stop this war? You suggest to stop violence with violence. If Ukraine starts to attack Russian territory, propaganda will 100% point on this and say that Russia has attack Ukraine to stop this and they acted ahead of. Russians, that are against war will support Putin even more. Because "we are being attacked and this must be stopped".

Answering on aggression with aggression is totally wrong. It will only give birth to more aggression.

Russia wants Ukraine to be abandoned without any help from the West, so they'd continue to strike and maim with impunity. The sad reality though is that USA and European Union has continued to appease the Kremlin much to the disappointment of Ukraine. Their reasons being that they don't want the war to escalate. But the truth is that you can't stop escalation by appeasing a dictator. Rather he would be emboldened to advance with impunity.

Having sensed the weakness shown so far by the west, Russia is capitalizing on that to threaten anyone who tries to supply weapons to the Ukrainian Military. This is where America and Europe has to draw the lines and move in with full intent by supplying Kiev with all the weapons they needed to prosecute this war. Not only with their self defense, but to be armed with the ability to launch great offensives against the Russians.

Ukraine should not only defend. They should be able to attack and hit Russian territories. That's the only way to balance the equation and possibly tilt the war in favor of Ukraine.

Ukraine has held back the supposed super power for 3 months,  limited them to the border towns. The last thing Russia would want is trying to goad a 'Real War Tested Superpower' into a direct confrontation. Russia is not in the same league with the US when it comes to conventional warfare and they know it.



You can see from the latest map that Russia has not been able to advance beyond the border towns and the few coastal cities, some of which they have been pushed back from, town after town. You can't win a war by simply defending your territory. You need to launch equal or surpassing devastation against your enemy in order to deter them.

THE US SUPPLY TO UKRAINE SO FAR

1. The Javelin anti-tank missiles
2. Switchblade drones
3. Artillery and body armor
4. Some high-tech equipment like laser-guided rocket systems
5. Surveillance radar
6. Mi-17 helicopters

This was detailed in a recent list circulated by the Department of Defense.

Increase in the supply of offensive lethal weapons to Ukraine will help stop Putin and accelerate the end to his madness. This stupid war has to end now.

Note: I've never been in support of straining the USA resources to fight foreign wars that does not concern us but this is different. Ukraine will pay for the weapons and a dictator has to be stopped before it's too late.