Why was the PayPal discussion thread removed from the altcoin section?

Muhammed Zakir

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Quote from: rugrats on December 12, 2014, 04:01:09 PM

Quote from: Blazr on December 12, 2014, 01:22:49 PM

My argument is that PayPal is a cryptocurrency, because the term 'cryptocurrency' means currency that is transferred using cryptography.

Blazr, PayPal is an intermediary agent that facilitates fiat transfers between two parties.
While it may use cryptography in its security protocol (just like Visa, Amex, Western Union, etc.), it is not a currency by itself.

+1. XPR is somewhat a cryptocurrency but paypal isn't as it acts like an interpreter. Roll Eyes

~~MZ~~

rugrats

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Quote from: Blazr on December 12, 2014, 01:22:49 PM

My argument is that PayPal is a cryptocurrency, because the term 'cryptocurrency' means currency that is transferred using cryptography.

Blazr, PayPal is an intermediary agent that facilitates fiat transfers between two parties.
While it may use cryptography in its security protocol (just like Visa, Amex, Western Union, etc.), it is not a currency by itself.

theymos

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Quote from: theymos on October 26, 2011, 11:59:38 AM

I think a cryptocurrency is any currency that is better than traditional currencies and traditional money transfer systems in some way due to its use of cryptography.

SaltySpitoon

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There really isn't much point in arguing it. Unless we want to create a new board for fiat that uses some form of cryptography, for Banks, Credit Cards, Paypal, etc, Paypal will be considered Fiat, and Ripple will be considered a Cryptocurrency. Ripple is some sort of hybrid between Bitpay and a Cryptocurrency, so its close enough. Just like when the discussion was had about (original) Mastercoin when it was planned to be a layer ontop of the Bitcoin protocol, there was discussion as to whether it is considered an Alt Coin or part of Bitcoin. For the sake of organizing, it was an Alt Coin.

If we want to get real specific and talk about Cryptography's use in financial services, we would have to categorize near every fiat related business as a cryptocurrency (except Target and Homedepot teehee) for the sake of not over complicating things, if in doubt, if it deals in fiat its not a cryptocurrency. If it has a blockchain its probably a cryptocurrency.

shorena

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Ok lets get the crypto aside. Wr just have a different understanding. A definition of crypto is IMHO more than just how it is transmitted and there are oddities as well that still belong to the same group.

How is paypal a currency? The currencies paypal handles are $,€,£ etc. There is no inherent currency to paypal its a payment processor for different (non crypto) currencies. They might one day process crypros and be a valid topic in the service discussion section. Currently they do not. They even explicitly dissallow currency exchange via their service.

Blazr

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Quote from: shorena on December 12, 2014, 05:05:31 AM

So your argument is basically: Bitcoin is nothing new, it is not significantly different from paypal?

I think you will be pretty alone with that argument.

Where did I ever mention Bitcoin?

My argument is that PayPal is a cryptocurrency, because the term 'cryptocurrency' means currency that is transferred using cryptography. The term has nothing to do with how the currency is issued as far as I can tell. And because PayPal is a cryptocurrency that is an alternative to Bitcoin, it should be discussed in the altcoin section based on the altcoin sections description:

Quote

Discussion of cryptocurrencies other than Bitcoin. Note that discussion of how these currencies *relate to* Bitcoin may fit in other categories.

In addition, many other altcoins that are discussed in the altcoin section are not issued using cryptography, the main one being Ripple XRP. So in the case that you think cryptocurrency refers to how the currency is issued, why is PayPal excluded from the altcoin section yet these other coins allowed to be discussed there?

shorena

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So your argument is basically: Bitcoin is nothing new, it is not significantly different from paypal?

I think you will be pretty alone with that argument.

Pecunia non olet

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ripple is no crypto in that sense. I'm for banning it from the forum.

Blazr

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Quote from: SaltySpitoon on December 11, 2014, 08:56:11 PM

Quote from: Blazr on December 11, 2014, 08:40:58 PM

So then Ripple XRP is not a cryptocurrency because it is issued by a central authority, Ripple Labs. Am I right?

You are correct. Ripple is an open source payment processor that supports currencies. By their own admission.

I was referring to the currency XRP which is issued by Ripple Labs.

https://www.ripplelabs.com/xrp-distribution/

Quote

XRP is a math-based currency that is native to the Ripple network.

And their definition of a math-based currency is:

https://ripple.com/knowledge_center/math-based-currency/

Quote

A math-based currency, also referred to as a cryptocurrency,

In addition, there is also wikipedia's classification of Ripple XRP as a cryptocurrency:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency#List_of_cryptocurrencies

SaltySpitoon

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Quote from: Blazr on December 11, 2014, 08:40:58 PM

So then Ripple XRP is not a cryptocurrency because it is issued by a central authority, Ripple Labs. Am I right?

You are correct. Ripple is an open source payment processor that supports currencies. By their own admission.

Blazr

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Quote from: SaltySpitoon on December 11, 2014, 08:39:08 PM

key words in there being generation of currency units and the independence of central bank

So then Ripple XRP is not a cryptocurrency because it is issued by a central authority, Ripple Labs. Am I right?

SaltySpitoon

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key words in there being generation of currency units and the independence of central bank

Blazr

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Quote from: Soros Shorts on December 11, 2014, 07:57:47 PM

It's a bit specious to say that PayPal is a cryptocurrency just because its transactions use encryption at the network transport layer. By that reasoning then all banking transactions are crypocurrency transactions (which the are clearly not).

I wouldn't say that all banking transactions are cryptocurrency transactions because many times banks don't always utilize cryptography to transfer funds, in fact even with all the technology available today they still often print out checks and mail them to other banks for interbank payments.

However, based on my understanding of the term cryptocurrency, then bank currency that is transferred using cryptography would be considered cryptocurrency. I'm interested to know what other peoples understanding of the term is, but from what I've read it refers to currencies that are transferred via cryptography.

Soros Shorts

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It's a bit specious to say that PayPal is a cryptocurrency just because its transactions use encryption at the network transport layer. By that reasoning then all banking transactions are crypocurrency transactions (which the are clearly not).

Blazr

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So what you are saying is because it doesn't use cryptography to control the issuing of new coins, it is not a cryptocurrency.

I do not agree with that. In that case Ripple XRP is not a cryptocurrency because Ripple Labs controls the creation of new coins, it is not done using cryptography, which means Ripple threads should be removed from the altcoin section and placed in offtopic because it's not a cryptocurrency.

Another example would be DigiCash, which from what I can tell originally coined the term cryptocurrency, back in the early 90's. With DigiCash all coins were issued by a central mint (the DigiCash company) cryptography was not used in the issuing of new coins:
http://cryptome.org/jya/digicrash.htm

My understanding of the term cryptocurrency is that cryptography is used to transfer the currency, and not necessarily used to issue it, thus my opinion that PayPal is a cryptocurrency still stands and I'm hoping someone can convince me otherwise or the PayPal discussion thread be moved back to the correct section.

shorena

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No I dont escrow anymore.

Probably because:

Quote from: ?? on ??

No its not.... please go away with your nonsense

its not an alt coin, its not a cryptocurrency [1], while it does use crypto for transportation (as you point out) it does not create anything. Its just another way to proccess fiat payments.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency

Blazr

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I'm wondering why the mods moved my PayPal discussion thread from the altcoin section to offtopic:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/paypalcom-very-old-cryptocurrency-discussion-thread-moved-from-alt-cryptos-889679

The PayPal payment network utilizes cryptography (SSL) to authenticate payments of fiat currency. It fits the definition of a cryptocurrency and should be discussed in the alternative cryptocurrency section.

Topic: Why was the PayPal discussion thread removed from the altcoin section? (Read 1335 times)