WILL ALTS EVER DECOUPLE FOM BITCOIN?

mersal

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Quote from: lobo13hf on June 27, 2020, 01:16:13 AM

Quote from: mersal on June 27, 2020, 12:06:26 AM

Investors emotions has the answer for this question.If people think bitcoin as the best crypto currency and sign of whole crypto market forever then the thing will never change but if some other altcoin goes dominating the crypto world and be a good contender to the bitcoin then people will follow that coins also for the market decisions.

The emotion that owned by the investors have nothing to do with the domination of bitcoin to the altcoin market.

WHAT?

Bitcoin has got its value from its demand which means more people are buying and trusting which means investors emotions right?

Bitcoin domination has major effect on altcoin market as well that is why the price most most altcoins just move proportionate to bitcoin.

gaston castano

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because the dominance of btc is still very high, it is natural that all alt prices follow btc, even when btc rises high enough some alts do not go up and instead go down.
we don't know for sure but some good alt will always coexist with btc.

lobo13hf

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Quote from: mersal on June 27, 2020, 12:06:26 AM

Investors emotions has the answer for this question.If people think bitcoin as the best crypto currency and sign of whole crypto market forever then the thing will never change but if some other altcoin goes dominating the crypto world and be a good contender to the bitcoin then people will follow that coins also for the market decisions.

The emotion that owned by the investors have nothing to do with the domination of bitcoin to the altcoin market. So many platforms have developed a very good product and they can't still leave from the bitcoin domination.
The domination of bitcoin on crypto market will be forever

mersal

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Investors emotions has the answer for this question.If people think bitcoin as the best crypto currency and sign of whole crypto market forever then the thing will never change but if some other altcoin goes dominating the crypto world and be a good contender to the bitcoin then people will follow that coins also for the market decisions.

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Quote from: MrMojoRising26 on June 18, 2020, 10:54:08 AM

I know it is highly unlikely, but I still have to ask the question. The way it has always been is alts move up when bitcoin goes sideways, or alts get crushed if bitcoin goes down or they get crushed in bitcoin value if bitcoin goes up. Even the top alts suffer from this to some degree so I wonder if it's possible someday for let's say ETH to have price action noncorrelated to bitcoins drops or big moves up. The way the structure of the market is everything depends on bitcoin like when dropped to 3,800 not too long ago everything else took a dive with it. I wonder if ETH or some alt can ever decouple from bitcoin? My guess is probably not its just the way it is even tether goes below a dollar sometimes depending on bitcoin price action. There are some alts that have all time highs before bitcoin does so in a way that is kind of a decoupling, but they still suffer from bitcoins price action. Anyway interesting subject to discuss I would love to get everyone's take on it

This is very difficult for several reasons, to begin with most altcoins are derivative, they are based on bitcoin and its technology and while they change a thing or two for the most part they are not really original coins, and when that is the case it is impossible for such coins to become truly independent from bitcoin or even to reduce their correlation, also bitcoin right now has around 64% of all the money invested in this market, even if we assume that number is correct, and I have my suspicions that number is even higher than that, then this means bitcoin is simply too big and as soon as it makes a movement in one direction or the other the rest of the coins move with it as well since they are too small to resist the movements of bitcoin.

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Quote from: tabas on June 18, 2020, 01:01:06 PM

We're far from seeing Ethereum or any potential altcoins not going to have ties with bitcoin's move. It's entirely the whole cryptocurrency that's already been with bitcoin so I know that it could be odd for some people to see that everything reacts whenever bitcoin reacts.
But that's how it works and we will see in the future if something like what you're thinking could happen although imo, I don't think it will or there will be.

It's the Bitcoin dominance, this is the reason why any coin including Ethereum can ever get out of Bitcoin's shadow, I don't see any alts except Ethereum right now with the potential to do that, Ethereum has the potential but unless it shared it's dominance with Bitcoin I don't see it happening, we are just in our ten years, let's see what the future will being in the industry.

Not just the dominance but about the sequence of what has been brought to us first. Bitcoin was the one that has been brought to us first and with that favor, no one can ever push bitcoin out of being ranked #1.
I like Ethereum but I don't see any chance that it will make bitcoin out of its sit even with the dominance.

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It could always become totally different from each other and you wouldn't believe how different they could become. Some of you guys are new to this place and you may not really know how crypto market always worked but I can tell you that there are four different ways market could go at any time. First one is bitcoin and altcoins all going up, everything goes up, secondly it is reverse which means everything goes down together.

What people do not remember is the other two, sometimes bitcoin goes up but altcoins go down and sometimes bitcoin goes down but altcoins go down. This is probably what people do not remember but there were many times when bitcoin went down and altcoins went up, it used to be like that and haven't been in a while but I am sure it is still there and it will probably happen again.

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Quote from: Hellkas on June 24, 2020, 03:32:30 AM

I think that altcoins separation is a question of time. Even now you can see that some assets on coinmarketcap show good price growth despite on bitcoin price is going down or stay the same. I suppose cryptocurrency market just need more customers and bigger trading volumes, then situation will change

What coins are you talking about Roll Eyes

. If you look at the major altcoin market they all move according to the bitcoin market and then there are other shit coins that pumps and dumps all the day and you cannot even compare them and view that as a good sign, when regulations set in we might not see those pump and dump coins.

There were times in the past when coins like ETH, Dash and some other top coins all move higher without the help of bitcoin and they have reached a limit and right now it is hard to see a separate rally in any coin until there is any fundamental changes that will attract the investors.

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Quote from: ILScoin on June 24, 2020, 07:24:07 AM

I don't think that will happen, bitcoin is the reason why altcoin are here without bitcoin there will be no altcoin, the movement of bitcoin will keep affecting altcoin paired to it, that is why some altcoins are only paired to usdt only due to what bitcoin movement do cause

Yes, but there is also Altcoin that is paired on both, and that is also good, namely on Bitcoin and USD, so when Bitcoin is moving, Altcoin will also experience the same thing even though the percentage increase is not the same, meaning that the pair of Bitcoin and USD are equally good when paired with an Altcoin.

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Quote from: residivis on June 24, 2020, 07:13:02 AM

I think altcoin is difficult to be parallel with bitcoin because there are many things that become obstacles. and again currently in the pandemic of the corona virus. so a lot of real work that is not going to work maybe after this pandemic is over I'm sure altcoin will get better.

As long as the token is still traded on the crypto market and it will be always using bitcoin as the main pair to determine the price of the token. Did you know blockstack? it's also using bitcoin to determine the price and it can't even stand alone. It's a first legalized ICO by SEC.

ILScoin

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I don't think that will happen, bitcoin is the reason why altcoin are here without bitcoin there will be no altcoin, the movement of bitcoin will keep affecting altcoin paired to it, that is why some altcoins are only paired to usdt only due to what bitcoin movement do cause

residivis

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I think altcoin is difficult to be parallel with bitcoin because there are many things that become obstacles. and again currently in the pandemic of the corona virus. so a lot of real work that is not going to work maybe after this pandemic is over I'm sure altcoin will get better.

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The market can be a scary place. Especially when it's on a bear streak. BTC usually takes some alts with it when it goes down because of the demand on the market. When you look at it, When BTC goes down hard people will panic and some will actually liquidate their accounts because of the fear of losing it all. BTC is like the market's anchor when it sinks, the market can't move which will lead on a bear market.

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I think that altcoins separation is a question of time. Even now you can see that some assets on coinmarketcap show good price growth despite on bitcoin price is going down or stay the same. I suppose cryptocurrency market just need more customers and bigger trading volumes, then situation will change

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Well from a mindset from a long-term holder like me, I don't think that the price movement of alts will detach from Bitcoin.
From what I can see sometimes, Bitcoin becomes the medium as well when people are thinking of buying other alts. Think about it, there are countless ways to buy Bitcoin in the internet as well as outside through personal trades.
I might be wrong but I never saw any other cryptos being bought aside from trading it with Bitcoin.

It's may not be true to say there's no way to buy altcoins without trading with BTC. Nowadays, the cryptocurrency market develops large enough to have more than one medium-of-exchange. Right now people can buy altcoins by trading other medium-of-exchanges such as stable coin (USDT) or ETH, BNB. It's not necessarily that we have to use BTC to buy altcoins!

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Quote from: pixie85 on June 18, 2020, 04:38:26 PM

There are two ways altcoins work.
They follow bitcoin in its ups and downs or they look like they're decoupled and can pump on their own but when bitcoin goes down they go down as well.
The first action is typical for most strong altcoins and weaker altcoins with lower market cap often choose the second one.

I don't think altcoins will ever completely decouple from bitcoin.

i dont see anytime soon that alts will be detaching their price movement from bitcoin. if you will take a quick look at coindesk, you will see that major alts have the same movement as bitcoin. so like for example, eth, xrp or bcash, you can see that their trend is similar with bitcoin. so if you want to know what will happen to these popular coins, follow first the bitcoin trend and you will have the idea what's gonna be for other alts.

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Quote from: semobo on June 18, 2020, 03:30:13 PM

Possibly after mass adoption, the coins will be diversified from current holders so there will be less effect on the market which arises normally due to emotions of traders when they see price dumps.There is no correlation between any coins other than the traders and their emotions.

Isn't it ethereum getting massive adoption right now? As long as altcoin will be paired with the bitcoin and it will never decouple from bitcoin. bitcoin just like a thing to determine the price of altcoin and whether altcoin has created a good product and it can't happen as the value will be pegged with the bitcoin too. Even when the coin has USDT pair only and that will not give a lot of impact

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Quote from: Gozie51 on June 18, 2020, 05:03:21 PM

Quote from: tabas on June 18, 2020, 01:01:06 PM

We're far from seeing Ethereum or any potential altcoins not going to have ties with bitcoin's move. It's entirely the whole cryptocurrency that's already been with bitcoin so I know that it could be odd for some people to see that everything reacts whenever bitcoin reacts.
But that's how it works and we will see in the future if something like what you're thinking could happen although imo, I don't think it will or there will be.

I also think like you on this. The blockchain is a technology that cryptocurrency is using in developing as all the coin are encrypted that way. So they are going to run in that form with bitcoin at the top. People have to understand it as it were.

Most of the projects are running through blockchain technology and that's what they're endorsing to the investors. They're another blockchain use case and company that will make their investors feel good.
And that is because they're a blockchain technology company but the investors don't understand that thing. Sometimes these new projects are also abusing the ignorance of some investors or not, most.

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Quote from: tabas on June 18, 2020, 01:01:06 PM

We're far from seeing Ethereum or any potential altcoins not going to have ties with bitcoin's move. It's entirely the whole cryptocurrency that's already been with bitcoin so I know that it could be odd for some people to see that everything reacts whenever bitcoin reacts.
But that's how it works and we will see in the future if something like what you're thinking could happen although imo, I don't think it will or there will be.

I also think like you on this. The blockchain is a technology that cryptocurrency is using in developing as all the coin are encrypted that way. So they are going to run in that form with bitcoin at the top. People have to understand it as it were.

pixie85

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There are two ways altcoins work.
They follow bitcoin in its ups and downs or they look like they're decoupled and can pump on their own but when bitcoin goes down they go down as well.
The first action is typical for most strong altcoins and weaker altcoins with lower market cap often choose the second one.

I don't think altcoins will ever completely decouple from bitcoin.

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Altcoins and bitcoin are a match made in heaven for me.
They cannot be separated from one another, most altcoins are pegged to btc pairs.

And even altcoins are dumped to hodl more bitcoin

semobo

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Possibly after mass adoption, the coins will be diversified from current holders so there will be less effect on the market which arises normally due to emotions of traders when they see price dumps.There is no correlation between any coins other than the traders and their emotions.

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Quote from: MrMojoRising26 on June 18, 2020, 10:54:08 AM

I know it is highly unlikely, but I still have to ask the question. The way it has always been is alts move up when bitcoin goes sideways, or alts get crushed if bitcoin goes down or they get crushed in bitcoin value if bitcoin goes up. Even the top alts suffer from this to some degree so I wonder if it's possible someday for let's say ETH to have price action noncorrelated to bitcoins drops or big moves up. The way the structure of the market is everything depends on bitcoin like when dropped to 3,800 not too long ago everything else took a dive with it. I wonder if ETH or some alt can ever decouple from bitcoin? My guess is probably not its just the way it is even tether goes below a dollar sometimes depending on bitcoin price action. There are some alts that have all time highs before bitcoin does so in a way that is kind of a decoupling, but they still suffer from bitcoins price action. Anyway interesting subject to discuss I would love to get everyone's take on it

When it comes to price correlation then i can say that after all the years ive been spending here on this market.I cant really deny
about that stuff when bitcoins price tends to move then it do somehow dictates on where the market is heading but this is actually
a wrong mindset to since there are coins which can really oppose on what bitcoin is doing most of the time,they do!
Rather than stressing yourself on asking about that decouple thing then it would be more better if you do just mind on how
you gonna utilize those cheap prices.

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Quote from: doctor877 on June 18, 2020, 03:07:04 PM

Decoupling from BTC dictation is not something that is likely to happen because most all alts are traded against bitcoin. Although sometimes some alts decople for a while because of their project development, which cause spike in price irrespective of what's happening in the market. This happens across for different alts at different times. But generally they follow Bitcoin movement and they increase mostly when bitcoin price is stable.

I think this will go on as long as usage of cyptocoins (be it for trading or real life usage) stays at the same level....if adaptation/usage would really pick up most probably you will see decoupling for many more alts because they will find their own niches and start living their own life.

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Decoupling from BTC dictation is not something that is likely to happen because most all alts are traded against bitcoin. Although sometimes some alts decople for a while because of their project development, which cause spike in price irrespective of what's happening in the market. This happens across for different alts at different times. But generally they follow Bitcoin movement and they increase mostly when bitcoin price is stable.

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What is bad in that obviously bitcoin is the most dominant coin with largest market share both in terms of volume and popularity so when btc moves whole crypto market is effected both positively and negatively but if btc starts bull run from here and you see alt price dumping in terms of btc still do not worry because alt price will either be stable in usd terms or growing.

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Just like other currencies are still tied to the USD DOLLAR, in FIAT markets, the same with Crypto markets, we have BTC and Alts stuck and tied together in more ways than one. Yes some small cap coins may decouple from Bitcoin for a time, but with Binance and other companies bringing in margin trading for every coin that moons once, then I think it's highly unlikely this will happen, unless we get mass adoption and more money and people involved in Crypto. So for now we have to just watch the markets play out with Bitcoin as King and the rest of the Alts sitting as it's Subjects.

tabas

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We're far from seeing Ethereum or any potential altcoins not going to have ties with bitcoin's move. It's entirely the whole cryptocurrency that's already been with bitcoin so I know that it could be odd for some people to see that everything reacts whenever bitcoin reacts.
But that's how it works and we will see in the future if something like what you're thinking could happen although imo, I don't think it will or there will be.

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Alts are tied to Bitcoin because they are mostly traded against Bitcoin. So, for this decoupling to happen they should start to be traded against fiat more. This is hard to achieve, because well-regulated exchanges aren't too keen to list unpopular altcoins, and even if this happens, traders prefer to trade on less regulated exchanges. So, only the biggest altcoins stand a chance to become more independent from Bitcoin. But they need to have good fundamentals to do so, so that there is some legitimate interest from investors, and so far this isn't happening - altcoins simply don't do much, they like to make some noise, but practice shows that they severely lack real-world use.

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Quote from: MrMojoRising26 on June 18, 2020, 10:54:08 AM

I know it is highly unlikely, but I still have to ask the question. The way it has always been is alts move up when bitcoin goes sideways, or alts get crushed if bitcoin goes down or they get crushed in bitcoin value if bitcoin goes up. Even the top alts suffer from this to some degree so I wonder if it's possible someday for let's say ETH to have price action noncorrelated to bitcoins drops or big moves up. The way the structure of the market is everything depends on bitcoin like when dropped to 3,800 not too long ago everything else took a dive with it. I wonder if ETH or some alt can ever decouple from bitcoin? My guess is probably not its just the way it is even tether goes below a dollar sometimes depending on bitcoin price action. There are some alts that have all time highs before bitcoin does so in a way that is kind of a decoupling, but they still suffer from bitcoins price action. Anyway interesting subject to discuss I would love to get everyone's take on it

It is not always true, you can check omc each coin has it's own movements depending on fundamental events so you cannot say that they follow btc, even now many projects are really pumping parabolically, just check swissborg in that case, while BTC and most of other coins are silent rather seem to be in sleep mode.
Secondly, I think you are taking it in wrong sense, price movement in most of coins is not coupled to btc rather it depends on overall crypto market cap, if volume decreases there is high chance of price decrease and if it increase there are chances of increase in price of most of the coins, so thinking everything is attached to btc is not correct.

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In my opinion, the decoupling could be achieved on the right cryptocurrency if most of the transactions happen within its ecosystem or in a decentralized manner. A cryptocurrency will have to be fully independent of centralized platforms and be able to properly control its supply via governance. I don't really like how they move together. They need to grow at their own pace and not control via centralized platforms. That is one of the ways we know they are doing well or not, without some sort of manipulations.

omnik

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That's ever happened before and did you see the market when bitcoin has been getting drowned but ethereum was getting the reversal trend and it's not following bitcoin? i guess this also depends on the development progress.

I think ethereum can't leave from bitcoin domination at least it can but it's not forever

MrMojoRising26

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I know it is highly unlikely, but I still have to ask the question. The way it has always been is alts move up when bitcoin goes sideways, or alts get crushed if bitcoin goes down or they get crushed in bitcoin value if bitcoin goes up. Even the top alts suffer from this to some degree so I wonder if it's possible someday for let's say ETH to have price action noncorrelated to bitcoins drops or big moves up. The way the structure of the market is everything depends on bitcoin like when dropped to 3,800 not too long ago everything else took a dive with it. I wonder if ETH or some alt can ever decouple from bitcoin? My guess is probably not its just the way it is even tether goes below a dollar sometimes depending on bitcoin price action. There are some alts that have all time highs before bitcoin does so in a way that is kind of a decoupling, but they still suffer from bitcoins price action. Anyway interesting subject to discuss I would love to get everyone's take on it

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