Topic: Will Bitvavo share my BTC holdings with the government? (Read 149 times)

At the moment of purchase, there was (and still is) no tax for holding BTC. Neither is it illegal.
There is only a tax for converting BTC profits to cash or other coins.

I'm planning to transfer the BTC to an air gapped coldcard this weekend. If a tax agent ever inspects the transaction history on the exchange, he'll see that I did not realize profits and the coins are no longer on an exchange.

I don't intend to ever sell the BTC. By the time that regulations change, my Satoshis will be out of reach from any centralized entity.
I don't think a tax agent can ever get to my coldcard, or stop transactions with it.

As long as the service comply with KYC/AML policies, there's always a chance they could share user information to relevant agencies, in some cases, it could be a part of their regular reports.

If you triggered a taxable event, you'd have no choice but to pay your dues unless you like the feeling of anxiety as there's always a chance one could get caught. However, keep in mind that not every move is a taxable event. For instance, holding should be fine in most countries hence the first step is to familiarize yourself of the tax laws in your place.

The most secure way to do this is to not use bank transfers for buying and selling crypto if your government is going to create problems for you. You are using a centralized platform to buy, so your privacy is already compromised there. Now if you add something that the government has control over, you will be in big trouble.
The best option is to withdraw the money from your bank account and then use that for P2P trades. You will not be under the government's radar that way. Also, you can buy in small amounts so that no extra steps will be needed to transfer money related to crypto purchasing. But face-to-face transaction is always the best option if you value your privacy.

Me and OP now have a better understanding about Bitbavo, they're affiliated with bank, that means that the government is in the know about your crypto transactions. Exception of trading, if it were bitcoin investment or a payment method, OP should have just relied on p2p, to hodle and sale, and evade government interferences. In my country, the central bank placed ban on banks to facilitate crypto transactions, but this is not a problem for us, we rely on p2p and exchanges for our crypto transactions. Although cryptocurrency, is not yet regulated in my country.

According to my research, Bitbavo seems to be a local cryptocurrency exchange registered with DNB (Dutch Central Bank). Today, we know that the bank is a regulated business under the government. This means that, whatever the bank requests, any information must be provided.

So if Bitbavo requests information about you from the bank, the local exchange must provide it, especially if it is from DNB; they cannot violate that order. Because Bitbavo is also a local centralized exchange platform, So you can't get the bank to suspect you of anti-money laundering.

Anything you do touch which is centralized and regulated then expect that anytime they could really give out those informations to the government on which it is related to you on which this is something
which it isnt really shocking anymore and it could really happen considering that there are really institutions that doesnt really like on losing up that liquidity which same as you said in speaking about banks
and other correlated or similar institutions but it is really just that odd that they are offering something which it do looks some alternative on what you are trying to do.
Making up some withdrawals on your bank account specially big ones will really be raising or ringing up some alarms on the bank itself or whatever it would be.

Also, you should be aware that you dont need to donate into different account holder because once those funds would be already on Bitcoin form and
been stored up on a hardware or non custodial wallet, then there's no way that they could be able to robbed you out. It cant just be possible.

I've read a lot of people that does this but it varies from country to country and if you see some holes that you can do that and you are doing it legally, you know more about the laws and taxes on your country.

Exchanges have this sense and notice that a family member that's immediate to the deceased user may file and prove that they're a family/relative to claim what's left on the deceased user's account.

Quite a few people use it but none of them have been visited by a tax agent. I expect this to happen soon, as part of the fight from the government. These people have a false sense of security and banks are getting nervous about losing liquidity.

I see a plan to avoid these hawks ripping me to pieces:

I spread my initial 15k investment amongst 3 people:
- Me
- My wife (I transfer 5k to her now. Banks will see this, but she is the real owner)
- My father (I give him 5k later)

When the money is paid, I make my mother in law (who lives outside of the EU and is almost 80 years old) go through KYC.
We manage her account though. There was never a bank transfer (fiat to BTC) in her name, so banks in Brazil will not expect anything. There will only be a crypto transaction of our 3 accounts here, to hers. She doesn't live here so our government can not tax her.

When the tax hawks come for me, I say that all BTC has been transfered to my non EU family member as a donation. Because BTC taxes in her country (Brazil) are much friendlier. I can also prove this with my transaction history. This is like someone trying to take my money at gunpoint, and then realizing that there is nothing to steal. I don't think they will contact the authorities in Brazil because there's nothing in it for themselves.

However with my mother in law at 78 years old.. What happens if she passes away with 500k euros worth of BTC on her name?
I wonder if it ever gets to a point where we actively need her fingerprint or live camera footage to transfer her BTC holdings in 2035, for example

I'm from Belgium. I've recently opened a topic about our regulations.

Basically the IRS (our equivalent of it) makes 3 categories. Amateurs, part time traders and professional traders.
Amateurs don't pay any taxes. However, it is very vague how they categorize people. Hodlers are considered amateurs. And "people who don't take risks". Which makes no sense because everybody does. Also the portion of ones total net worth is a criterium. Some articles mention 2%. Others 25%. In reality it just shows that they don't know and they will tax the fuck out of everyone as soon as they can.

For now it says that they will tax on realized profits. I assume that these have to be withdrawn to bank accounts before there can be any tax.
However the article also says that the tax agent "is looking at our crypto wallet in 2023 and later". I read an article that said someone had to pay taxes on owning a 47000 euro asset, while the current value was 3x less. This implies that they tax the shit out of us regardless of withdrawals.

It mentions that we have to prove that we are amateurs based on inactive transaction history. But this would require direct access of the tax agent to our crypto wallet, which goes against everything BTC stands for. I assume the article means that exchanges have to comply with tax regulations. But of course I will get my money off of the exchange and I wonder how they can know my portfolio then

I presume Crypto is banned in your country if you say such as your government coming after you but however be the case, if the reverse is still the case and you want to avoid government from noticing your transaction as related to Crypto, you can still make use of binance p2p and I will also suggest you buy it in batches for example, buying in bit till you accumulate the certain amount of money you desire to invest in buying Bitcoin so that they do not find your account transaction suspicious and calling you to know what you did with the money. But if your government is curious about the transaction, the bank would have no option than to comply with the existing laws of the land the habits them to do accordingly to their terms and conditions of service.

Is bitvavo popular there in your country? Honestly, I have never heard anything from that exchange but if you're fine using them and you have proved them to be legit, all on you.

And about such amounts, I think you should be patient and don't do the 2 times 10k deposit because even if they say so that it's fine. That amount is likely a lot for a transaction.

I've read before that what if you do like $1k or $2k per transaction as that won't trigger them from asking why is that amount being made and transferred by you.

Yes. It's true the bank knows where money flows in and out of accounts.  Financial institutions have reporting duties in many countries - to combat money laundering and tax evasion.  Depending on your local laws.

That said, for certain assets, privacy matters.  In cryptocurrency circles some seek to transact outside official channels and  meeting people face-to-face, trading cash for coin.  It adds hassle, sure, but data remains obscure.  

Ultimately it's about personal choice.  What information are we comfortable sharing? Some care little others deem privacy paramount.  Neither outlook strikes me as right or wrong.  Rather it depends on one's unique situation and convictions.

In areas where crypto is legal, peer-to-peer meetings happen.  Local communities connect people looking to exchange assets without official oversight.  Solutions exist for those valuing confidentiality.  Yet they involve trade-offs - namely time and effort.

They will share the information if requested by Government. Now I don't know where you are from but in Countries like the US, it's already happening.

I have quickly read through their terms and privacy policy, and they talk about how customers need to be responsible about their taxes. They also state how they are obliged to collect user data and hand it over to Government in order to comply with laws and regulations.

Please take your time to read through
1. https://bitvavo.com/en/terms
2. https://bitvavo.com/en/privacy

If your Country has strict tax laws. You don't want to mess with them.

I couldn't comment on what you should do since I'm not sure which bank you're using or the country you're from but there are some crypto-friendly banks out there. But if you're expecting it to be this bad and you don't want anyone to know the nature of your transactions, maybe you can go the P2P route and trade with other individuals instead.

I'm going to enter the crypto market today. BTC only, for now.
I wish I had stepped in sooner but it is what it is.
I'm planning to transfer between 15k and 20k, in 2 deposits. The maximum deposit for most cards is 10k on bitvavo. I'm located in the EU.
My bank denied my first attempt to transfer to Binance, about 6 months ago.
Now I'm planning to make 2 deposits of 10k.

Yesterday I informed my bank, that this transaction would happen and that it is normal. That it is a long term investment. I did not mention the words crypto or BTC, but they will know the receiver of course. The woman on the phone tried to sell me their own investment schemes with fiat money, which obviously does not interest me.

I expect some counter attack. Banks hate to lose liquidity and I expect them to go after BTC the same way they went after gold in WWII.
I expect to be flagged with tax agents and the government. I may be called a criminal as part of their war on crypto, which I expect to happen when more people abandon fiat currency.

Is it bad to use Bitvavo in my case? Banks will know what I'm investing in. But I don't think there's a way around that.
Shortly after purchasing I plan to store the coins in a hardware wallet. If/when tax agents come after me, I will donate these to a different account holder to avoid being robbed by my government.