Topic: Will POS lead to Ethereum's centralization (like EOS)? Why? Why not? (Read 286 times)

How is it identical to centralization? I'll give you a hint, it isn't and especially for an already widely distributed coin. Especially with people doing shared staking via smart contracts.

At some point, Ethereum will have some level of centralization with the adoption of PoS. It'll be much more decentralized than its competitors (like EOS and TRON), but much more centralized than PoW coins like Bitcoin and Litecoin. The number of ETH required for staking could result to be extremely expensive in the long run, as prices rise across the crypto market. Still though, anyone with enough money could get into participating in ETH's consensus unlike EOS. In EOS, there's vote buying where Block Producers offer users a share of their reward in exchange for votes. There's also the issue of Block Producers voting for themselves, which is a real issue for those who're whales (effectively increasing the risk of centralization).

While PoW may be energy intensive, it's more decentralized than PoS or DPoS. It also strengthens the security of the Blockchain by a greater degree than the previously mentioned consensus algorithms. It's no wonder why Bitcoin is still the world's most secure cryptocurrency to date, despite being dominated by big players in the mining industry. Even so, PoW has some level of centralization which could put the underlying Blockchain network at risk. This tell us, that there's no consensus algorithm that's perfect in maintaining 100% decentralization.

Nonetheless, PoS may lead to ETH's centralization but not at the degree of other blockchains like EOS and TRON. EOS can only support 21 Block Producers at a time, while ETH has no limit. This means that ETH will become more decentralized in the long run, as more validators join the network. As long as the 32 ETH requirement is met, anyone can secure the ETH blockchain without restrictions. In EOS, you'd need to be highly prominent and widely recognizable within the crypto industry to get a chance to be accepted as a Block Producer. If you manage to get the required number of votes to start producing blocks, then you'll be able to participate in EOS' consensus. Otherwise, you'll be out of the game. That's why, I believe that ETH's PoS will be far more decentralized than DPoS used by EOS, TRON, Tezos, and others. Just my thoughts

32 ethereum can be considered as a lot of money. Im not sure if those are willing to participate to staking their ethereum consider about there will be a locked time period and that will be around 120 days. It's not worth for small stakers to stake their ethereum for nothing. it's better to trade it rather than stake it.

centralization or not is not an Ethereum problem, the POS system is the best system to cut electricity resources carried out by miners,
and of course the POS system already has many kinds, there are DPOS or something,
so it's not a matter of centralization or decentralization, as long as electricity cuts can be reduced,

32 eth for those who want to participate in the POS Consensus, I think this allows everyone to join. so it cannot be compared to EOS. Ethereum will remain decentralized even when POS is released later.

yes I agree with you, maybe ethereum cannot be fully said to be decentralized. but ethereum is slightly better than its competitors.

but in my opinion 32 ETH is a good minimum limit, not too high and not too low. everyone can still participate in POS.

POS is identical to centralization, but in ethereum I don't think that will happen. because ethereum isn't just POS, later they will have 2 consensus of POS and POW.

actually what I'm afraid of is not the centralization of Ethereum, but the manipulation that will occur from the POS. the more Whales who hold Eth, the greater their chance to manipulate the market.

There is no centralization that will happen with Ethereum's POS. Everybody can participate in the staking for as long as they have the minimum number of ETH requirement. Unlike Ethereum shifting to POS, POW coins are somehow under the influence of giant miners that are holding so much power. And unlike POW coins, POS coins does not consume much of the earth's energy and contribute to the the warming climate.

I believe that PoS will lead to Ethereum's centralization but not in the way as EOS. This is largely because EOS will only depend on 21 block producers for consensus while ETH has no limit. Anyone can participate in the consensus of the ETH blockchain if he/she meets with the minimum requirement of 32 ETH for staking. On the other hand, 21 block producers (delegates) can participate in the consensus of the EOS blockchain leaving others out of the equation (unless some BPs goes offline for a certain period of time). This gives EOS a greater degree of scalability than Ethereum, but results in a higher degree of centralization than the latter. As long as Ethereum solves PoS' "Nothing at Stake" problem, it could survive for the foreseeable future.

Still though, Ethereum won't be as decentralized as Bitcoin with the adoption of PoS consensus. However, it'll be much more decentralized than its competitors (like EOS and TRON). It would've been better if the dev team lowers the amount of ETH for staking in order to allow the average person to help secure the Blockchain (which results in greater decentralization). But it's up to the community to decide whenever they'd support the established requirement or not.

Nonetheless, the level of centralization within the ETH blockchain could be easily determined once PoS becomes a reality. In the early days of the upgrade, it may be too early to tell the effects of PoS within the ETH blockchain. It may take a while before we could be able to determine the degree of decentralization of the ETH blockchain as "validators" get accustomed to the system. But it's evident that PoS tends to be much more decentralized than DPoS in my own opinion.

May not. Ethereum had already made an announcement. The new future system will be POW + POS. However it is too early to talk about decentralized.
I don't think we should underestimate Vitalik. I'm sure he'il surprise everyone, find a nice solution.

POS didn't made eos centralized, hell its not centralized at all, you can literally build eos dapps that have no control over the dapp and you can simply have a decentralized amazing network (depending on what dapp you made) which is a great gift. Not all POS coins are centralized neither, the main ones are usually premined ones and ethereum wasn't premined.

People forget the fact that back in the day when a new coin was created people literally had to mine it out, nowadays the projects are all premined and owners have all of it and they sell you the coins for a price and call it a "coin offering" instead of actually building a coin and letting you mine it. Ethereum had its time and nobody has that much ethereum in their hands, even the ones that have a lot do not have %80+ of all of it which means it will not become centralized.

This validator nodes are cheap but most of them would be in hand of some of the largest investors. And the most of the fees would turn to them. Otherwise it won't make a large difference than it is. Even at current time, most of the minting is done by large mining farms. Unlike EOS, I don't think Ethereum would provide exclusive voting rights to the validators.

It is not going to lead it to centralization if it is a centralized project in the first place, I do not think pos will make a significant change in the ETH governance system because the pos works almost exactly the same as pow. more importantly from the news I heard, we are not going to go full pos but we are going to use a parallel consensus with pow and pos at the same time. Nothing changes in their governance system, everything is centralized in the beginning.

ETH is the second most popular coin till date and the team are doing all they can to make it a success, i don't think the teams will allow any centralized ideas to touch ETH, i belief ETH was able to make it this far because its decentralized

The purpose of the release of the new version of Ethereum is to fix version 1.0 errors, increase network bandwidth and improve smart contracts. The new consensus algorithm will make these changes more efficient.

Well i don't think Ethereum's concept of proof of stake would make it a centralized network. By running a PoS protocol all that miners need to do is to get the required amount of collateral number of ETH needed to be a masternode. I think this is equally fair and i am sure staking would also be enabled so that other smaller miners can also join.

Ethereum's switch to PoS rather makes it a more decentralzed ecosystem.

no, because ethereum is already pretty centralized as it is. changing its mining algorithm from PoW to PoS won't change that. the only thing that it can do is generate more revenue for the centralization that is in possession of the most percentage of the total supply.
in fact i strongly believe that the only reason why they are pushing for PoS even though PoS is the worst known algorithm is exactly the extra profit and power they can gain even if for short term.

It will be a difficult thing to be achieved caused by to be able to get more than 51% of the total staked coins in the network will cost multi-billion dollars. Remember when more coins will be staked in the network and that means if the coins in circulating supply will get locked to the wallet. That will decrease the token that already distributed.

Imagine when more than 40% tokens will be locked in the network and that will actually bring a huge increase to the price of coins. 51% attack in POS just a method to waste your money.

I do not think so, there is just too little evidence to prove it, i mean for some sort of control over eth network the whale has to hold majority share of the eth and must be running most of the nodes to infuence the network in anyway which can impact in a specific way.

Wow, that's a very positive outlook towards eth, 2k price is very high but it is more than possible. I also do believe in eth platform. Developers are doing their jobs and they will not let this platform fail. I don't think eth team will make their network centralized. They know the very basic idea why crypto is born and I don't think they will ruin that anonymity factor in this system.

it might, be it will be everyones CHOICE to allow it, right? Eth is on many open markets. If you buy it, noone but you can choose to sell it again
I know ive been stacking it for months now, and will continue too till PoS. The only way whales will get my ETH is for 2k per hehe
The funny part is most people have their sellout price, so it prob WILL hit 2k, and then become centralized by whales

Ethereum may come up with hybrid mode of both POS and POW which may ensure that early bag holders may not dominate in any means. People are eagerly waiting for ethereum's new version but not sure how many of them will get themselves satisfied even ethereum may not manage to scale its previous peaks but stuck below$200 or even $500 levels.

I mean to say the purpose of next version of ethereum must be for attracting new investors but without ICO and their tokens I am afraid that ethereum may not shine like before. Probably 20% to 40% price rise may happen due to adding POS feature still I guess that will not enough for its early and ATH round investors.

See above