Will some companies like Amazon really 'store' Bitcoins?

geegaw

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Quote from: Charot12345 on August 19, 2021, 08:28:13 AM

Quote from: 2double0 on July 27, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

I came through a post here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57557132

And it says that will Amazon adopt btc or not till specified date there.

A question struck my head.
Do such companies need it?
I am not against Amazon or any other big tech names, but as we understand it, Tesla and others have came in crypto to make profits by holding it. But companies like PayPal and Amazon settle millions of dollars on a daily basis sent to their vendors who sell products there successfully. If taken into consideration, then these companies accepting btc will be offering it to users just for their convenience but can't store btc for a long period of time, which means that much btc will be coming back to either exchanges or sold through OTC on a daily basis to settle their deals with vendors quick. Is such an adoption going to harm the overall value of bitcoins if sales will take place through big companies (not Tesla and all who are here for profit)?

Well business is business. If they can make profit from it then they will adopt it. And if they decided to adopt it, it is posible that they will not hold it and will just for daily basis because its' volatility is a high risk for them and they might still prioritized fiat because most of thier client prefer fiat right now. But just in case they will really do it, they already have a reserved plans about the fluctuations or have plans to solve some risk brought by its volatility.

Nowadays, those who waste bitcoin are considered unwise, it implies that arbitrariness in the exchange of bitcoin is discouraged for basic needs, from this root cause, users and Amazon also relieve quite a lot of stress as well as a few throttling issues because as you say, Amazon doesn't volunteer to acquire bitcoin because of volatility, users also do not volunteer for spending, except for the emergency capacity. The possibility circle of the two sides is so small, there is no high risk for this consensus

Charot12345

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Quote from: 2double0 on July 27, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

I came through a post here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57557132

And it says that will Amazon adopt btc or not till specified date there.

A question struck my head.
Do such companies need it?
I am not against Amazon or any other big tech names, but as we understand it, Tesla and others have came in crypto to make profits by holding it. But companies like PayPal and Amazon settle millions of dollars on a daily basis sent to their vendors who sell products there successfully. If taken into consideration, then these companies accepting btc will be offering it to users just for their convenience but can't store btc for a long period of time, which means that much btc will be coming back to either exchanges or sold through OTC on a daily basis to settle their deals with vendors quick. Is such an adoption going to harm the overall value of bitcoins if sales will take place through big companies (not Tesla and all who are here for profit)?

Well business is business. If they can make profit from it then they will adopt it. And if they decided to adopt it, it is posible that they will not hold it and will just for daily basis because its' volatility is a high risk for them and they might still prioritized fiat because most of thier client prefer fiat right now. But just in case they will really do it, they already have a reserved plans about the fluctuations or have plans to solve some risk brought by its volatility.

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Do these companies need to store Bitcoin? The answer is no of course. They don't store Bitcoin for the reason that they need it. They store it because they want to make a lot of profit in Bitcoin. For example, Tesla bought $1.5b worth Bitcoin for this reason. But I assume that they couldn't make the profit they aimed. And they started selling some amount of their investment.

Maybe Amazon will state that they have bought Bitcoin also. But their main goal will be the same with Tesla too.

And personally I do not really see anything wrong with that, bitcoin is an asset that can be traded freely and if there are institutional investors out there that want to buy bitcoin and eventually sell it again just to obtain some profits along the way they are within their rights to do so, so such thing will not bother me, what would bother me is if institutional investors could eventually try to manipulate this market to their convenience, something that most likely is happening already.

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Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on August 04, 2021, 03:01:31 AM

Amazon won't store bitcoins, they've already made the statement that the rumor isn't true. Although, I think that there's a possibility that other companies are going to store bitcoin, it's not like it's a novel idea, MicroStrategy and Tesla has done it and some other companies too.

Amazon is the biggest e-commerce and I think it will be a threat if you accept bitcoin, because what is happening now is that bitcoin is still being rejected in many countries, if accepting bitcoin it threatens Amazon's business, they take their comfort zone.

- Disapprovals in countries that are not related to Amazon's business, even if they accept, their business will still be stable, there will even be an unexpected source of investment when payment interfaces are considered based on a contract with that country, if that country has an opinion on bitcoin, Amazon will definitely not add the amendment and vice versa. In the eyes of Amazon, bitcoin is just a product, whether they license it also depends only on sales as well as how low or high customers rate it

mu_enrico

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Forget about these public companies since they are bound with SEC law hence won't do anything speculative. If not because of Elon Musk's antics, Tesla won't touch BTC as well. Anyway, Amazon rejects this speculation already. I don't see they need to use crypto as well at the moment since people use VISA.

Also, I think it's more beneficial if ordinary people own BTC, not whales who can pump and dump price. This technology is not for the rich to play around.

electronicash

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shopify was posted on news sites which it will be accepting BTC. i'm not an amazon user but i'm almost sure they don't have much difference. so maybe or maybe not. but since bezos is friend of some bitcoin investors, he might be investing in BTC too.

every billionaire these days are looking to find ways so their money won't be confiscated by government especially because they are known to be philantropist and also not paying taxes.

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Quote from: 2double0 on July 27, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

I came through a post here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57557132

And it says that will Amazon adopt btc or not till specified date there.

A question struck my head.
Do such companies need it?
I am not against Amazon or any other big tech names, but as we understand it, Tesla and others have came in crypto to make profits by holding it. But companies like PayPal and Amazon settle millions of dollars on a daily basis sent to their vendors who sell products there successfully. If taken into consideration, then these companies accepting btc will be offering it to users just for their convenience but can't store btc for a long period of time, which means that much btc will be coming back to either exchanges or sold through OTC on a daily basis to settle their deals with vendors quick. Is such an adoption going to harm the overall value of bitcoins if sales will take place through big companies (not Tesla and all who are here for profit)?

This is a pretty interesting topic and one I've not seen brought up before so glad that you did. I think it really depends on the company itself. My personal feelings are that Amazon, if there were to eventually start excepting bitcoin and or other cryptocurrencies, would likely keep some and sell some. Amazon is always looking for ways to make more money and expand it's assets, so like Tesla, I could easily see them doing a mix of selling and storing.

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MicroStrategy and Tesla are very vocal about their interest in bitcoin. I believe other institutions are stacking bitcoins secretly and do not want it to be in the open. Companies are evolving to incorporate crypto as one of their store value or safety net. I recently watched a video of Michael Saylor saying he borrowed millions of dollars from the bank to buy bitcoin although the bank didn't know what the money was for. So yeah I think more companies are stacking bitcoins under the curtains

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Quote from: Kasabus on August 06, 2021, 08:44:30 AM

If they will adopt, they don't need to invest, the purpose of adoption is for the payment system, and they should treat it as a currency than investment. However, they should not only be limited to currency, they can also invest if they believe that their adoption will result in the increase of the value of bitcoin in the long run.

Your first condition about adopting bitcoin is contrary to your second claim in which they shouldn't be limited to just treating it as a currency. I think that what should happen is that it should be a combination of both because there's profit in bitcoin no matter which one you choose but having both is going to help you get more profit since you covered all the bases.

Kasabus

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If they will adopt, they don't need to invest, the purpose of adoption is for the payment system, and they should treat it as a currency than investment. However, they should not only be limited to currency, they can also invest if they believe that their adoption will result in the increase of the value of bitcoin in the long run.

AicecreaME

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Quote from: 2double0 on July 27, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

I came through a post here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57557132

And it says that will Amazon adopt btc or not till specified date there.

A question struck my head.
Do such companies need it?
I am not against Amazon or any other big tech names, but as we understand it, Tesla and others have came in crypto to make profits by holding it. But companies like PayPal and Amazon settle millions of dollars on a daily basis sent to their vendors who sell products there successfully. If taken into consideration, then these companies accepting btc will be offering it to users just for their convenience but can't store btc for a long period of time, which means that much btc will be coming back to either exchanges or sold through OTC on a daily basis to settle their deals with vendors quick. Is such an adoption going to harm the overall value of bitcoins if sales will take place through big companies (not Tesla and all who are here for profit)?

I don't think big companies will risk a big amount of their funds with bitcoin knowing that it is a speculative asset. Amazon surely has thought of the pros and cons of accepting bitcoin as a mode of payment. They know that bitcoin is volatile and certainly, they won't allow losses because of the volatility rate. Maybe they already thought of some way to avoid the big risk and pass it onto the consumers/buyers.

I think the effect it will have on bitcoin will be on the positive side because it will generate more investors in the making. Maybe bitcoin's price will also go up because of the demand. I just really hope there is no hidden agenda that could damage btc in the long run.

CryptocurencyKing

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There has been no better weather to actually earn bitcoins down actually hodling. It seems risk free but its not, it still carries some amount of risk. Anyway, hodling often seems like the best best to go for Companies. Trading would have helped a lot too but, of what use it is when you've got the time and the huge investment capital advantage. You very much good to go and I believe even Amazon would see this too. You allow Elon Musk to tweet of it and just like that, you've gotten either a pump or dump and which ever it is, it comes with its own opportunity either a sell or a buy respectively. So, I have no doubt in my mind, that should Amazon ever come to incorporate or purchase bitcoin, theybwould be amongst the hodlers.

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Quote from: Assface16678 on July 29, 2021, 09:28:14 AM

They've slammed the rumor already so I don't think that they are going to store bitcoins. But if they do, I think that they can probably do it anyways, bitcoin storage doesn't require that much sophistication so I am sure that there's a possibility that in the future that they will consider storing or even making the system part of their platform.

Everything about bitcoin is changing and the holders characteristics is changing. I'm very bullish about their hold in future, its of course certain because this company are here because of the profit they can get.
Who knows if Bezoz may also have interest in holding bitcoin as well as no one every expected Elon musk to come on board even when cz was always tag and called him on Twitter.

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Even though Amazon has come out to openly deny the statement of them accepting btc, i feel they are given it thought but are not prepared to let the public in just yet about their plan, this is how many rumors about PayPal accepting btc spread until they finally publicly accept btc, every day things keep changing, technology keeps evolving, new ways to do things keep coming up and Amazon can not stay away for too long.

Kong Hey Pakboy

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Amazon won't store bitcoins, they've already made the statement that the rumor isn't true. Although, I think that there's a possibility that other companies are going to store bitcoin, it's not like it's a novel idea, MicroStrategy and Tesla has done it and some other companies too.

Wawa2013

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Quote from: lalabotax on August 03, 2021, 06:31:52 PM

Based on the hottest issue a few days ago, Amazon still has not received Bitcoin as a payment tool.
And to buy Bitcoin there also it can't, or maybe a kind of cryptocurrency gift is there.
Actually, if a big company like this accepts or supports Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, this will be very good news and will affect the increase in Bitcoin prices. But unfortunately it hasn't happened yet.

The fact is that until now Amazon has not accepted crypto as payment, but that does not mean in the future Amazon will not change its mind.
I believe Amazon is currently in the process of learning cryptocurrencies, they need a lot of consideration to accept crypto. In the end they will
accept crypto too, after knowing the demand for crypto is getting bigger. We all need to be patient waiting for Amazon to accept crypto, let them
monitor crypto developments first. Because Amazon is a big company, so accepting Crypto as payment can't be rushed, they have to do
a lot of considerations. But if Amazon finally decides to adopt crypto, this is something that could make the price of Bitcoin go up drastically.
Because it can make many people more optimistic about the future of Bitcoin, and it can make other large companies become interested in
adopting Bitcoin as well.

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Based on the hottest issue a few days ago, Amazon still has not received Bitcoin as a payment tool.
And to buy Bitcoin there also it can't, or maybe a kind of cryptocurrency gift is there.
Actually, if a big company like this accepts or supports Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, this will be very good news and will affect the increase in Bitcoin prices. But unfortunately it hasn't happened yet.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on July 30, 2021, 09:48:37 PM

It is said that in every rumour there's always an atom of truth. I predict that Amazon will both store and accept payments in cryptocurrencies or they might just create their tokens based off the blockchain technology. One can never tell what their R&D department is up to. Even though they have come out to deny the possible use of the cryptocurrency, I don't trust them.

A growing number of companies are already accepting virtual currencies for payment. Tesla will soon restart accepting Bitcoin as payment. Facebook already has its own cryptocurrency. What do you think would happen next? I betcha, Amazon is most likely to be next.

There were some grounds for the rumor, it seems that Amazon is interested in cryptocurrencies and they are starting to make moves on that regard, now people jumped to the conclusion that they will begin to accept payments in bitcoin but it is undeniable that there is an interest there, but what will they do? This is difficult to know because I doubt that they are going to try to create their own cryptocurrency when we know what happened to Facebook when they tried to do the same.

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It is said that in every rumour there's always an atom of truth. I predict that Amazon will both store and accept payments in cryptocurrencies or they might just create their tokens based off the blockchain technology. One can never tell what their R&D department is up to. Even though they have come out to deny the possible use of the cryptocurrency, I don't trust them.

A growing number of companies are already accepting virtual currencies for payment. Tesla will soon restart accepting Bitcoin as payment. Facebook already has its own cryptocurrency. What do you think would happen next? I betcha, Amazon is most likely to be next.

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Quote from: 2double0 on July 27, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

I came through a post here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57557132

And it says that will Amazon adopt btc or not till specified date there.

A question struck my head.
Do such companies need it?
I am not against Amazon or any other big tech names, but as we understand it, Tesla and others have came in crypto to make profits by holding it. But companies like PayPal and Amazon settle millions of dollars on a daily basis sent to their vendors who sell products there successfully. If taken into consideration, then these companies accepting btc will be offering it to users just for their convenience but can't store btc for a long period of time, which means that much btc will be coming back to either exchanges or sold through OTC on a daily basis to settle their deals with vendors quick. Is such an adoption going to harm the overall value of bitcoins if sales will take place through big companies (not Tesla and all who are here for profit)?

Companies are created for one single purpose which is to make money, do we beleive that bitcoin is going to be profitable during the next decades? If the answer is yes then many companies are going to adopt bitcoin to try to obtain profits that way, I do not think it is worth to consider if this is going to be beneficial to bitcoin or not as this is inevitable, anyone can buy bitcoin as long as they have fiat money available and if those companies want to buy it then there is no way to stop them.

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Quote from: 2double0 on July 27, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

I came through a post here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57557132

And it says that will Amazon adopt btc or not till specified date there.

And has been denied the claim officially that the news is not true. but the issue made the price of bitcoin yesterday touch 40k again and after confirming denied that the price has started to stabilize again and tends to fall. it is evident that news of adaptation of large companies concerned or will use bitcoin has a good impact on prices in the market. I also hope that news is right but its only hoax.

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Quote from: 2double0 on July 27, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

I came through a post here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57557132

And it says that will Amazon adopt btc or not till specified date there.

A question struck my head.
Do such companies need it?
I am not against Amazon or any other big tech names, but as we understand it, Tesla and others have came in crypto to make profits by holding it. But companies like PayPal and Amazon settle millions of dollars on a daily basis sent to their vendors who sell products there successfully. If taken into consideration, then these companies accepting btc will be offering it to users just for their convenience but can't store btc for a long period of time, which means that much btc will be coming back to either exchanges or sold through OTC on a daily basis to settle their deals with vendors quick. Is such an adoption going to harm the overall value of bitcoins if sales will take place through big companies (not Tesla and all who are here for profit)?

Unfortunately, Amazon released a statement that they are not going to regulate the use of crypto as a mode of payment for their company. Nevertheless, for sure there are still a lot from us who are hoping and who are aware that there will always be a possibility that crypto will get involved on such huge companies. It would've been a great help specially in terms of bitcoin's price if only the rumors were true. Amazon is one of the top five biggest company in the States so just imagine how much impact and influence it could give to crypto wherein other huge companies would have the courage to do the same thing till almost every company in the world uses crypto.

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Quote from: imstillthebest on July 28, 2021, 10:28:44 AM

they maybe recieving lots of request to add btc as one of thier payment methods because in todays era btc is now popular and widelly use by many people .
they may not need the btc personally but they need to listen to the publics request because this can make their company more explosive .
i only see this as a good news but if you are worried dont worry because i heard that amazon will not continue with this plan .

The Amazon corporation's financial advisors and experts may have given the right reminders of this plan and advised the management to abandon this somewhat dangerous ambition as soon as possible, a few strategic leaders could be severely reprimanded as shareholders no longer receive stable annual returns if bitcoin is applied for storage. User opinions create more satisfaction and quality but the company leans more towards shareholders and founders, internal is more necessary than external

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Quote from: Darker45 on July 29, 2021, 08:38:55 AM

I don't agree that Bitcoin has never been a currency. It may be seldom used as a currency, but it is currently being used as a currency. That's clearly one of Bitcoin's current functions. Its volatility is a factor but it hasn't totally hindered it from functioning as such.

The scale of users of bitcoin as a currency is probably much lower than the scale of people who make bitcoin a trading and investment asset. But what is clear is that bitcoin's function still remain as a currency and will never change even though people tend to make it an investment and trading asset. Bitcoin has been used as a currency for years since 2009, I think, and now perhap the scale of its use has increased even more.

Volatility may be justified as another contributing factor to why the scale of use of bitcoin as a currency is so much lower, but it is only a supporting reason for the government's review of bitcoin. I believe the volatility may be lowered if it is adopted as a currency much more than it is now.

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Quote from: Assface16678 on July 29, 2021, 09:28:14 AM

They've slammed the rumor already so I don't think that they are going to store bitcoins. But if they do, I think that they can probably do it anyways, bitcoin storage doesn't require that much sophistication so I am sure that there's a possibility that in the future that they will consider storing or even making the system part of their platform.

we should not believe the rumors circulating about that Amazon does not need BTC let alone store it. i guess who made the rumor that amazon bought bitcoin and kept it they too and who rejected their bitcoin too. of course with many issues circulating their company name will be more famous and advanced. regarding their purchase of BTC, I guess it's a company secret for the safekeeping of valuable assets for future companies or backup material in case the company runs into trouble.

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the adoption of Bitcoin will affect stocks, something that Amazon does not currently like because its star is still shining.
Bitcoin prediction will only happen through companies that believe in this idea or have a problem with keeping large amounts of cash, and not companies that consume a lot of cash daily.

Amazon will at some point be hurt to accept bitcoin indirectly driven by shipping companies.

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They've slammed the rumor already so I don't think that they are going to store bitcoins. But if they do, I think that they can probably do it anyways, bitcoin storage doesn't require that much sophistication so I am sure that there's a possibility that in the future that they will consider storing or even making the system part of their platform.

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Quote from: 2double0 on July 28, 2021, 07:58:06 AM

Quote from: Darker45 on July 27, 2021, 10:31:23 PM

<<>>

If that happens, I don't think it is going to be harmful to Bitcoin. On the contrary, it boosts Bitcoin's purpose as a currency.

Bitcoins have never been a currency which is why this debate got fired up, because of its volatile nature bitcoin cannot be considered a currency but a tradable asset which can incur profits/losses based on when bought/when sold. This will not bring any good to Amazon nor Bitcoins if they are not going to hold it but either have an inbuilt exchange feature that allows their users to pay in btc but get sent to an exchange directly to be sold and send fiat back to Amazon.

I don't agree that Bitcoin has never been a currency. It may be seldom used as a currency, but it is currently being used as a currency. That's clearly one of Bitcoin's current functions. Its volatility is a factor but it hasn't totally hindered it from functioning as such.

This is will bring good to Amazon because it attracts Bitcoin supporters. It widens its market. On the other hand, this will bring good to Bitcoin as well because it helps it become more mainstream.

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Quote from: Gyfts on July 28, 2021, 04:23:42 PM

Perhaps it's a pipe dream but any liquid cash a company holds is losing its value every day with inflation. Obviously megacorps like Amazon wouldn't be holding onto a ton of cash, they have cash equivalents that they go back and forth with between the equivalent and fiat, but I'm thinking smaller businesses might benefit from holding onto something like Bitcoin if cash becomes more unstable than it already is. Sure, BTC's volatile, but one might predict the price of BTC would be higher than it is now in the future, and that BTC certainly does not guarantee at least a 2 percent loss year over year like fiat (which is what the US fed targets inflation to be, we can assume it'll be higher for this year because of Covid).

One of the reasons Amazon pays so small tax is because they reinvest most of their profit. So they don't sit on a pile of cash that loses value by every passing day, they make use of it.
So indeed, Bitcoin may just not be the thing for Amazon yet. Of course, that can easily change in some months or years. (Again, the fact that they've reacted this fast on that rumor may mean that they do keep an active eye on Bitcoin).

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on July 28, 2021, 03:19:22 PM

Quote from: NeuroticFish on July 27, 2021, 09:13:53 AM

So they may only help users pay with bitcoin if they want to, but at the end of the day they may just receive fiat.

That's exactly what they're going to do, assuming they do anything related to bitcoin at all. Amazon isn't in the business of investing in cryptocurrency, and they're not going to ever see any of the crypto they accept as payment; they'd most likely use a payment processor like BitPay or create one of their own.

Can you imagine if Amazon really did keep the bitcoin they received? They'd be taking on a massive volatility risk, and that wouldn't be very popular with their shareholders. Amazon isn't Overstock.com or MSTR or protonmail. They might start offering bitcoin as a payment option solely for those who choose to pay with it. They're not doing it because they want to own bitcoin or even hold it for a millisecond. They're only interested in fiat, believe me.

Perhaps it's a pipe dream but any liquid cash a company holds is losing its value every day with inflation. Obviously megacorps like Amazon wouldn't be holding onto a ton of cash, they have cash equivalents that they go back and forth with between the equivalent and fiat, but I'm thinking smaller businesses might benefit from holding onto something like Bitcoin if cash becomes more unstable than it already is. Sure, BTC's volatile, but one might predict the price of BTC would be higher than it is now in the future, and that BTC certainly does not guarantee at least a 2 percent loss year over year like fiat (which is what the US fed targets inflation to be, we can assume it'll be higher for this year because of Covid).

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on July 27, 2021, 01:51:40 PM

As expected, that rumor proved to be fake.

Perhaps, the whale game as usual. They will do anything to manipulate the market and I think they did this to revive the market for their dip bought. Company like Amazon wouldn't buy bitcoin and made it public, they will have done the same thing PayPal and SpaceX did when they all bought the dip but they managed to debunk the rumors.
May be in the future, they might have a change of mind, this was how PayPal rumours were going round around 2019 until 2020 when they came on board.

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on July 27, 2021, 09:13:53 AM

So they may only help users pay with bitcoin if they want to, but at the end of the day they may just receive fiat.

That's exactly what they're going to do, assuming they do anything related to bitcoin at all. Amazon isn't in the business of investing in cryptocurrency, and they're not going to ever see any of the crypto they accept as payment; they'd most likely use a payment processor like BitPay or create one of their own.

Can you imagine if Amazon really did keep the bitcoin they received? They'd be taking on a massive volatility risk, and that wouldn't be very popular with their shareholders. Amazon isn't Overstock.com or MSTR or protonmail. They might start offering bitcoin as a payment option solely for those who choose to pay with it. They're not doing it because they want to own bitcoin or even hold it for a millisecond. They're only interested in fiat, believe me.

Quote from: BrewMaster on July 27, 2021, 09:50:08 AM

i think bitcoin is too volatile and too risky for these companies to invest in and store. this is why so many of them go through payment processors such as bitpay to avoid owning any bitcoin for any amount of time since they receive the fiat through the processors conversion methods.

That's exactly right. If these rumors are true, I'd be curious to know which payment processor they end up using. Bitpay is probably the most popular, but with PayPal now in the crypto space....who knows.

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Quote from: Lubang Bawah on July 28, 2021, 08:42:40 AM

Their goal is only to provide convenience to consumers so that the purchase volume increases. Maybe they are worried about bitcoin price movements which are like a roller coaster, financially of course they are more happy with small but sure profits than bitcoin investments that have a risk of loss.

It may not be only the price. It's also "politics". Amazon is infiltrated big time with USA politics and they don't want to upset their beloved politicians, since they still move all they can in America into their cloud. And by far, not for free. And they need support from politicians for that.

Quote from: shield132 on July 27, 2021, 03:51:37 PM

Amazon runs Amazon Pay at the same time that is the competitor of PayPal, Google Pay and other companies. Paypal move on another step when they accepted the crypto adoption, so, in order to be in competition and also be the valued competitor, you have to implement everything good what your opponents have already done.

But it's by far not our problem whether they keep their business running or not, isn't it?
Clearly if they don't move fast they may lose market share. Also if they do wrong moves they can also lose market share. I think that we should not worry for them.

Quote from: shield132 on July 27, 2021, 03:51:37 PM

If they just accept the bitcoin payments, then in case of refund, what will they do? Return the original amount that god knows what value will have or they'll have to return the USD equivalent in BTC. It's really hard to predict that will be their move, especially when everyone knows the taste of market manipulation that Elon Musk has done.

Since the prices are in fiat currency and since nobody wants to face Bitcoin market/price fluctuations, most probably they would issue the refund in fiat equivalent or even in fiat.

But... they don't accept Bitcoin payments yet, so...

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I mean seeing how popular bitcoin has become and how big companies life tesla have started accepting it, and how the cryptocurrency has become a multi billion dollar industry, it comes with no surprise that they might be considering adding it as a payment method, and if they start accepting i am sure that many more companies will follow their step and little by little we will see the industry rise even more, and we will see them starting to store bitcoin and crypto.

imstillthebest

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they maybe recieving lots of request to add btc as one of thier payment methods because in todays era btc is now popular and widelly use by many people .
they may not need the btc personally but they need to listen to the publics request because this can make their company more explosive .
i only see this as a good news but if you are worried dont worry because i heard that amazon will not continue with this plan .

Lubang Bawah

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on July 27, 2021, 09:13:53 AM

Since they may only accept bitcoin and not invest into bitcoin, the most probable answer is that they won't hold/store bitcoin.
So they may only help users pay with bitcoin if they want to, but at the end of the day they may just receive fiat.

Their goal is only to provide convenience to consumers so that the purchase volume increases. Maybe they are worried about bitcoin price movements which are like a roller coaster, financially of course they are more happy with small but sure profits than bitcoin investments that have a risk of loss.

2double0

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Quote from: Darker45 on July 27, 2021, 10:31:23 PM

<<>>

If that happens, I don't think it is going to be harmful to Bitcoin. On the contrary, it boosts Bitcoin's purpose as a currency.

Bitcoins have never been a currency which is why this debate got fired up, because of its volatile nature bitcoin cannot be considered a currency but a tradable asset which can incur profits/losses based on when bought/when sold. This will not bring any good to Amazon nor Bitcoins if they are not going to hold it but either have an inbuilt exchange feature that allows their users to pay in btc but get sent to an exchange directly to be sold and send fiat back to Amazon.

19Nov16

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Quote from: Renampun on July 27, 2021, 03:00:47 PM

Quote from: 2double0 on July 27, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

...

every company must invest to secure their profit...

Bitcoin is an investment that has a very good increase in value every year. tesla, microstrategy and tech companies that have invested in Bitcoin first are already making profits. big companies certainly really have to invest in Bitcoin.

Bitcoin's condition is now very good for achieving big profits, rich people and companies are not afraid to invest in bitcoin, especially since the Nasdaq stock exchange has accepted bitcoin as a type of investment, this of course makes anyone, including companies, immediately make bitcoin an investment.

Darker45

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Does Amazon need it? I don't think so. Amazon has been doing great already. It made Jeff Bezos the richest man on earth. Everything happened without Bitcoin. Perhaps in the near future, but today there seems to be no compelling reason why Amazon would start to accept Bitcoin. But if they think Bitcoin acceptance has a significantly high demand, then they will probably offer the alternative to their clients one of these days.

If that happens, I don't think it is going to be harmful to Bitcoin. On the contrary, it boosts Bitcoin's purpose as a currency.

Wexnident

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If they really wanted to, then they might as well have invested in Bitcoin straight up in the first place. Yes, in the long term they would accumulate Bitcoin, but you should take into consideration what the current state of the adoption of Bitcoin is. Even if Amazon started accepting Bitcoin, it wouldn't suddenly shot the adoption to sky-high levels immediately. It would probably influence the price by a lot, depending on the community response, but adoption? Nah.

As others have said, they may just use a payment processor instead, and take all profits into fiat and most probably, invest in something less volatile. They can probably have their own fund to invest in Bitcoin or something, as I said, gained from their own funds and not through accumulation.

just_Alice

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I think you’ve already answered your question yourself. Just like you said, unlike Tesla, Amazon is not interested in Bitcoin for profit, but values the convenience of the customers.

Thus, the company will most likely not be acquiring Bitcoin (and, even more so, holding), but rather just adding it as a payment option and then, most likely, exchanging for better stability assurance.

I don’t see how this system can harm Bitcoin, only the opposite.

shield132

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on July 27, 2021, 09:13:53 AM

Since they may only accept bitcoin and not invest into bitcoin, the most probable answer is that they won't hold/store bitcoin.
So they may only help users pay with bitcoin if they want to, but at the end of the day they may just receive fiat.

Amazon runs Amazon Pay at the same time that is the competitor of PayPal, Google Pay and other companies. Paypal move on another step when they accepted the crypto adoption, so, in order to be in competition and also be the valued competitor, you have to implement everything good what your opponents have already done.

If they just accept the bitcoin payments, then in case of refund, what will they do? Return the original amount that god knows what value will have or they'll have to return the USD equivalent in BTC. It's really hard to predict that will be their move, especially when everyone knows the taste of market manipulation that Elon Musk has done.

teosanru

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Quote from: 2double0 on July 27, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

I came through a post here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57557132

And it says that will Amazon adopt btc or not till specified date there.

A question struck my head.
Do such companies need it?
I am not against Amazon or any other big tech names, but as we understand it, Tesla and others have came in crypto to make profits by holding it. But companies like PayPal and Amazon settle millions of dollars on a daily basis sent to their vendors who sell products there successfully. If taken into consideration, then these companies accepting btc will be offering it to users just for their convenience but can't store btc for a long period of time, which means that much btc will be coming back to either exchanges or sold through OTC on a daily basis to settle their deals with vendors quick. Is such an adoption going to harm the overall value of bitcoins if sales will take place through big companies (not Tesla and all who are here for profit)?

I don't think these companies will store a lof of btc even after they start accepting it as a payment method. Reason is simple they won't be willing to take this big of a currency exchange risk on their balance sheets. Companies avoid keeping foreign exchanges as they are prone to fluctuations, btc is at a all high level when it comes to volatility so these companies will definitely hedge themselves against this risk. Especially listed entities it's not easy to keep the primary revenues into such a risky asset.

Renampun

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Quote from: 2double0 on July 27, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

...

every company must invest to secure their profit...

Bitcoin is an investment that has a very good increase in value every year. tesla, microstrategy and tech companies that have invested in Bitcoin first are already making profits. big companies certainly really have to invest in Bitcoin.

lablab03

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I saw some news about amazon that they denied the report of accepting bitcoin reason why bitcoin suddenly changed direction after making progress, but TBH it's possible that someday they will adopt crypto especially BITCOIN but not now probably maybe soon after 2 years IMO. Because as the matter of fact base on what i know they have plans as well to develop their own digital currency, so that means they're really interested with this kind of currency? I hope so coz once this big companies adopt bitcoin for sure there will be a good improvement in the market.

Fortify

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Quote from: 2double0 on July 27, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

I came through a post here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57557132

And it says that will Amazon adopt btc or not till specified date there.

A question struck my head.
Do such companies need it?
I am not against Amazon or any other big tech names, but as we understand it, Tesla and others have came in crypto to make profits by holding it. But companies like PayPal and Amazon settle millions of dollars on a daily basis sent to their vendors who sell products there successfully. If taken into consideration, then these companies accepting btc will be offering it to users just for their convenience but can't store btc for a long period of time, which means that much btc will be coming back to either exchanges or sold through OTC on a daily basis to settle their deals with vendors quick. Is such an adoption going to harm the overall value of bitcoins if sales will take place through big companies (not Tesla and all who are here for profit)?

While they have since denied that they will be getting involved in Bitcoin (maybe they have their sights on a different cryptocurrency?) it seems that the blockchain itself could serve very many useful purposes for a gigantic logistics and warehousing operation. If they were to follow the Paypal model it is actually a rather cunning way to profit and control a large amount of cryptocurrency which is all funded by your customers. They get to fix the conversion rate back into fiat and they can also set transaction fees. On top of that they can potentially eliminate paying card network provides like Visa or American Express, which could further boost their margins.

Kakmakr

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I think a lot of these big companies are just "following" the Money..... they are tapping into a new income source..because they know that there a millions of bitcoins being hoarded by people that are not really using it for anything else..other than gambling and the odd transaction to buy food and drinks. Wink

They will in all probability use a Payment Processor and then instruct the payment processor to convert payment back into Fiat currencies, before it goes out onto their platform. (Payment processors will "legitimize" transactions, because they strip anonymity for all users that use their platform) Roll Eyes

hatshepsut93

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As expected, that rumor proved to be fake.

But as a thought experiment, I think almost all large company will use some proxy service to handle crypto transactions for them and instantly convert bitcoins to fiat, because they have zero reasons to be exposed to Bitcoin's volatility. This has been a deal in the past when Steam accepted Bitcoin via Bitpay.

Coyster

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Quote from: maju69 on July 27, 2021, 01:03:15 PM

Well, what I'm worried about is that Amazon will only use it to attract more visitors because under the pretext that they will adopt Bitcoin, then crypto users, especially Bitcoin users, have already flocked to shopping on Amazon.

I second that thought, but the thing you must understand is that no company will adopt Bitcoin without having something to benefit from it in the long run, what's most important for users in the network is if the Bitcoin network will likewise benefit from such adoption, more importantly in terms of mainstream/worldwide growth.

Amazon will prolly not hodl Bitcoin whenever they finalize their decision on whether to adopt Bitcoin or not, but the thing is, it'll be good for the network if their actions will bring Bitcoin to the ears of more people and if it'll as well encourage more people to use Bitcoin as a currency by spending their funds buying something via Amazon, I think there must be an advantage the network stands to gain.

maju69

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Because this news is still only considered as something that can't be said 100% and is certainly confusing, so we need proof of what Amazon will do. Considering where their planned adoption is still in the planning stages, and what we need to pay attention to is where the adoption that has not been carried out by Amazon has already caught the attention of many investors.

Well, what I'm worried about is that Amazon will only use it to attract more visitors because under the pretext that they will adopt Bitcoin, then crypto users, especially Bitcoin users, have already flocked to shopping on Amazon.
Only armed with Amazon's support for payments that will later use Bitcoin, they do not necessarily keep their promises.
So, in my opinion, before Amazon proved their statement some time ago, I think Bitcoin users should not be too influenced. So that all the truth is proven at the end of the year, as Amazon says.

noorman0

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Quote from: 2double0 on July 27, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

Do such companies need it?

Yes, maybe they need it to reach wider customers including residents of countries where fiat is not supported by digital payment services.

Quote from: 2double0 on July 27, 2021, 09:02:16 AM

Is such an adoption going to harm the overall value of bitcoins if sales will take place through big companies (not Tesla and all who are here for profit)?

As you said, the point is for profit. However they will seriously think about the circulation of bitcoins received in order to maintain their value in fiat. After all, amazon vendors also have the option of whether they will trade immediately or hold it.

Quote from: ziennakarishma21 on July 27, 2021, 11:39:21 AM

now your question is also my question , amazon accept BTC currently not seen officially on amazon in payment category , and they store BTC like a whale and can wait for the price to go up and sell it.

What are you talking about? Amazon hasn't even announced accepting bitcoins

ziennakarishma21

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now your question is also my question , amazon accept BTC currently not seen officially on amazon in payment category , and they store BTC like a whale and can wait for the price to go up and sell it.

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: lumeire on July 27, 2021, 11:13:53 AM

For issuing bonds n all they would have to apply for another lisence or not?? It will be a completely different market segment and I guess that would pose certain risks as well.
Amazon would certainly hold Bitcoins if there is an advantage of holding Bitcoins to them, if not then they would sell the coins either with some profit or just keep holding Bitcoins till they are in profit and then sell the coins. But the thing is that they would have to start accepting Bitcoins first before all other things.

Hypothetically, yes they'd have to apply for a new licence. Realistically, they'd probably acquire a company already trying to do something similar and just use that for doing the crypto exchanges.

Licencing and risk are generally easy for a large company like them to deal with, a licence is probably a week with 20 workers filing relevant information with the sec or whoever - even if it's internationally they'd probably only need a few extra people per country to deal with translations.

They might be able to make additional money by charging custody charges or lending out funds (like the majority of normal exchanges/asset management firms do).

lumeire

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Quote from: jackg on July 27, 2021, 10:42:21 AM

They'll probably find a way to pass the risk of saving/storing bitcoin onto investors. They'll probably use a payment gateway and prematch otc trades as much as possible so they can sell btc at a fixed amount for that period of time - like if investors were interested in dollar cost averaging.

Either that or they'll issue bonds to users of amazon that want to invest or hold btc and become an exchange themselces - finance is one of the remaining industries they haven't done much with/they could always team up with a bank on it too.

For issuing bonds n all they would have to apply for another lisence or not?? It will be a completely different market segment and I guess that would pose certain risks as well.
Amazon would certainly hold Bitcoins if there is an advantage of holding Bitcoins to them, if not then they would sell the coins either with some profit or just keep holding Bitcoins till they are in profit and then sell the coins. But the thing is that they would have to start accepting Bitcoins first before all other things.

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

They'll probably find a way to pass the risk of saving/storing bitcoin onto investors. They'll probably use a payment gateway and prematch otc trades as much as possible so they can sell btc at a fixed amount for that period of time - like if investors were interested in dollar cost averaging.

Either that or they'll issue bonds to users of amazon that want to invest or hold btc and become an exchange themselces - finance is one of the remaining industries they haven't done much with/they could always team up with a bank on it too.

BrewMaster

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i think bitcoin is too volatile and too risky for these companies to invest in and store. this is why so many of them go through payment processors such as bitpay to avoid owning any bitcoin for any amount of time since they receive the fiat through the processors conversion methods.

paxmao

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In financial terms, bitcoin is just an alternative asset and is only interesting for companies that want to make bitcoin an investment vehicle. Other than that, these business will probably hold just a small quantity of bitcoin or other just as they hold a certain amount of cash to serve trading purposes. Financially, companies try to minimise the amount of cash they have and tend to buy short term debt to simply keep it for a while.

My take is that bitcoin is not going to get a preferential treatment, at least not immediately.

NeuroticFish

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Since they may only accept bitcoin and not invest into bitcoin, the most probable answer is that they won't hold/store bitcoin.
So they may only help users pay with bitcoin if they want to, but at the end of the day they may just receive fiat.

Kittygalore

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I think that the current relation regarding Amazon and crypto is still a rumor so I don't think that we will be seeing it coming to a fruition any time soon. Let's say hypothetical, they do accept crypto as payment in their platform, I think that they will have the infrastructure and manpower to store those coins, I mean it's not like storing it is a hidden or a high end technology.

2double0

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I came through a post here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57557132

And it says that will Amazon adopt btc or not till specified date there.

A question struck my head.
Do such companies need it?
I am not against Amazon or any other big tech names, but as we understand it, Tesla and others have came in crypto to make profits by holding it. But companies like PayPal and Amazon settle millions of dollars on a daily basis sent to their vendors who sell products there successfully. If taken into consideration, then these companies accepting btc will be offering it to users just for their convenience but can't store btc for a long period of time, which means that much btc will be coming back to either exchanges or sold through OTC on a daily basis to settle their deals with vendors quick. Is such an adoption going to harm the overall value of bitcoins if sales will take place through big companies (not Tesla and all who are here for profit)?

Topic: Will some companies like Amazon really 'store' Bitcoins? (Read 420 times)