Topic: Will you invest in Chain-Bet.com bankroll? (Read 4062 times)

What in the whole discussion made u believe that there is slightest smell of Ponzi in this thread? Or u just blindly posting to collect your signature payment?

Many scammers attempted that everyday since they want an easy money by just fooling people online thats why for our defense on this kind of act we should be more carefull and do proper research and orientation for ourselves on which are the best investments for us. And don't let other people hold our money for profit sake since we can make for ourselves to earn and don't rely on those unknown frogs on online world.

Beware of Ponzi sites bro..these are increasing day by day

This is to inform everyone that we are still accepting private investments. Minimum investment amount is 8 BTC.

That's a good step forward to test the water...

No I don't think so. I will not invest in it  

I wouldn't invest and I will also tell you why. Your casino design is very poor,nothing catchy,nothing special. When you start a new casino website you need to look at the other sites first and ask yourself: "These casinos are full of crypto-currency users who are betting huge amounts daily. How could I compete with them?"
So you have to work much more on your site. Your betting idea on the last digit of the transaction hash is interesting indeed but you need to come with a design to suit your idea. Otherwise you won't attract many gamblers.

May be looking at the current status of the board, u may feel like u were mistaken.

Fact 1: 0% house edge game does not mean players will always win. It only means, players have 1% more chance to win over 1% house edge games like primedice.com, bitdice.me etc.

Fact 2: U can not use bot in this game.

If u r a seasoned investor in gambling sites, the above 2 facts should make sense to u.

www.BitcoinBetting.website is now https://www.Chain-Bet.com. OP updated accordingly

To start off, we wont be taking any part of investor's profit. Our initial goal is to spread the word about https://www.Chain-Bet.com with the assistance of our investors, so that we may increase our volume. Hence, if your investment is x% of the bankroll, u'll share x% of house win/loss accordingly. We are accepting private investments. Minimum investment amount is 1 BTC.

Anyway I would be interested. Would like to know the details you are considering for investors? profit share %, etc.

Yeah exactly, I thought he owned the site and that casino

Oh, I missed that one. I forgot about that. Yes, I did see it some time ago. Maybe he changed his mind between when I emailed him and when he put that up, which was some time after his forum and website was online.

Or, more realistically, he didn't like my proposal and went on his own (since he can clearly afford to do it from scratch, I was looking for "funding" or "investors".)

We have currently 2 support channel...

i. Bitcointalk: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/chain-betcom-on-chain-no-kyc-15x-win-provably-fair-since-2016-1492457

ii. Twitter: https://twitter.com/bitcoinbetting_

May I know where did u contact us?

I just would invest in a casino site with reputation. This kind of investment just worth if you use a lot of money, and it's not adviced to use a lot of money on a new and unknown site, that is the reason why many people can be resistent at this moment about investing in your casino bankroll.

Continue your work, improve your reputation and me and many others will be glad to invest on this site.

My opinion:I really think the website doesn't look so professional

and that's the issue
I contacted support and it's currently (DEAD)

Really? I thought he even operates his own casino..

https://games.bitcoin.com

It depends on the stability of the site and its review from the community, because a lot of scam sites has been proliferating especially with bitcoin and a lot of users are currently very skeptical in investing in new investment sites.

I will surely not invest at them since their site is poorly designed and i cannot see any angle that they are trustworthy to invest with, and as you've said i cannot risk my money for unexperienced guy thats why i will leave some thoughs that i will go invest at them, i will rather go to another good site since i know that their reputation is good and not this poorly new site with no guarantee at all.

Yeah, a Jr. Member promoting a website that is poorly created especially in this topic. We can see that the maker doesn't know anything about introducing their site. Well most likely I will not invest to that site because it is like just loosing my bitcoin for nothing.

I don't think Ver is into any sort of gambling sites. I asked him before.

Is this being backed by Roger Ver? Would add to Investors getting involved in my opinion if he is.

I'm talking about the server seed. That's supposed to be secret until after the game or roll. But it has a hash published beforehand so people can verify that the secret did not change.

BitcoinBetting uses a block hash. The game I had in mind would also use a future block hash. No one can predict the future block hash, but there is the argument that the site operator colluding with a miner (or is a miner himself) can discard a block that would result in a loss, with no guarantee that the next block would result in anything better, it could also be a loss.

But that only works if they also know the server seed, which only the site operator would know.

Using a block hash alone is not wise. Offering a 50 BTC prize against the result of hmac-sha512(future_block_hash, secret_that_only_I_know) ... that's a gamble even for a miner. I'm pretty sure they'd take the 99% chance of "winning" 12.5 BTC now (for publishing a valid block), than the potential or chance (of unknown percentage) to win 50 BTC.

They have a chance of not losing if they find a block that wouldn't agree. They don't really have a chance of winning. That's not the same thing.

A miner with enough hash power to rig a game often enough has more important things to play with than gambling in a bitcoin casino for a chance to win 50 BTC, giving up the block reward of 12.5 BTC which he has in his hands right now.

Could u please elaborate which secret u r talking about here?

You need to work on building your reputation first. Sites where I invest re at least 3 years old, lots of users and run by reputable members. You do understand the way an ordinary investor thinks. What if I send you my coins and close down the shop tomorrow and run away? What would be your response to that?

Wow. I got quoted. Thank you.

Unless someone can convince me not to offer 50 BTC prizes for a blockchain based game together with a secret only I know ... (if I am the operator of the site.) Or the issue of investors being cheated. Without resorting to 30 minute calculations.

I agree that it isn't unreasonable, but I think they should just add a house edge (ie 1% - x15.84 payout). The fee hurts small players the most, like DarkStar mentioned


I don't think large players would mind that much, and will attract more small players to come. Making them pay a fee on returns is still fine.

It's not an unreasonable fee, every transaction sent to the site directly costs them money, as eventually those inputs will need to be sent. And what makes it worse, is that most of the best have a low probability of winning, it makes it even more expensive for them to spend. Most other sites can eat that cost themselves because they have a house edge, and it's just a cost of doing business.  But it's not unreasonable for them to not want to run the site at a loss, so I think the fee is justified.

(But for instance, I'd had to ban accounts on my site that have made hundreds or thousands of deposits but never actually gamble, because they're just directly costing me money. A more natural thing would be to have a small deposit fee, but players would revolt against it because it's not standard)

Sending the funds to your hot wallet and to other players should be paid by those players, and you. Definitely not by the person who lost money. Take luckyb.it for example - they pay 0.0002BTC for transaction fees, and charge the player 0.0001BTC if they win. I don't expect you to cover the fees to send funds back, but luckyb.it doesn't charge you fees for losing bets. Really dumb model imo.

You don't need to forward it to your hot wallet, nor do you need to pay winning funds with micro transactions. What Cloudbet does (not an on chain game, but still...) is they consolidate a bunch of small inputs from time to time, to form larger inputs at less busy hours where they can get it confirmed with no fee or as little as 0.0001BTC for 10+ inputs.

AFAIK, no gambling sites require you to pay BTC if you lose to forward the BTC to other hot wallet addresses and to forward it to other winners.

Your assumption that mining fee is not required for a lost bet is incorrect. Let us see how in your example...

First this address was created - https://blockchain.info/address/1J9uBy5ba1pqtXfYfxzzAxK74qUK1sAfo1

User sent the Tx to this address - https://blockchain.info/tx/981f3689d2ef7e8f477948ea17287eb90472ab189d3c803cb05478b076a3bb64 (User paid the mining fee of 0.000117 BTC)

This address forwarded the fee to the hot wallet - https://blockchain.info/tx/156a3a82fd231097ea41955f8e5f9c122c055f392179507209ba6404de96f927 (House paid the mining fee of 0.0001 BTC)

So, just to accept a lost bet, house already paid 0.0001 BTC. Now remains another 0.0001 BTC from the Tx processing fee of 0.0002 BTC they mentioned in their FAQ.

Whenever, a winning bet is paid, all these small bets are accumulated and paid from the hot wallet. This increases the Tx size and hence the mining fee required for quick confirmation. So, let us have a look at the latest winning bet right now, i.e. Bet #537.

Wining Tx: https://blockchain.info/tx/0e6af2f890bac066d349c2b56fff45aa62ddac0fd8b2a5706e5d5212ea5295d9

Tx fee: 0.0002 BTC

For this, bet 0.0001 BTC was already with the house from the deposit of the winner of Bet #537. But, who'll pay the rest of 0.0001 BTC? That is taken from the loser of Bet #530. That is how it is compensated.

This is why I said 0.0002 BTC is used in mining fee. I hope it makes sense now.

No, it's a "transaction processing fee". Look at Bet #530 or any other bet that lost.


The bet amount is 0.0006BTC, and the transaction that was given is 981f3689d2ef7e8f477948ea17287eb90472ab189d3c803cb05478b076a3bb64

There are 2 outputs - one of 0.0008BTC, and one of 0.008BTC. It would seem logical to assume that the 0.0008BTC was the bet, right? Why would they need to pay the miners fee if the bet lost? Actual 12x payout for this example btw, not the 16x they advertise.

nope

Sure, that's correct. I mispoke about max profit, it's more related to the max bet, but the logic still is sound. Block discarding (throwing away 12.5 (+ fees) btc) is often the economical choice, if the bet is big enough and you're a big enough miner. Especially so in low-payout bets.

Nopes. Whatever be the max-win, miners can not cheat without risking 12.5 BTC loss at their end. It has been thoroughly discussed in this thread - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/how-random-the-last-digit-of-a-block-hash-really-is-1493510 and this guy has summed it up pretty well...

Maybe the idea of unbounded risk for 0 EV is appealing? AKA you're a gambler, and this is a cost-effective way to gamble? No idea


PevPot had 0EV gambling (actually positive EV) and was theoretically a sustainable business because it had no house risk (it was totally pvp) and the extra EV was from advertisers buying ads on the site). I guess that *might* work, but gamblers don't seem to care that much, they just want a good gambling experience.


Anyway, investing money in bitcoinbetting.website sounds like a horrible idea, even if you were doing it for gambling purposes. The whole point of investors is that you can offer bigger max wins, but as soon as bitcoinbetting.website max-win is > ~13 BTC, now miners can actually start to cheat on the website, and undetectably rip you off. The only thing that makes the site reasonably secure, is the prizes are small

Nopes buddy. This has remotely anything to do with how they make money. Following is clearly stated in the FAQ.


It is an on-chain game and 0.0002 BTC is used in mining fee.

For example, take the winning bet Tx of Bet ID: 515, i.e. https://blockchain.info/tx/26b04135e30c4dfce53de060477720875c191817f389c81e29f01ef466f6aaa3. The fee paid is 0.0002 BTC. Moreover, in each bet 0.0001 BTC seems to be going in mining fee to forward the bet amount, e.g. https://blockchain.info/tx/2bc2d1ad923806dac9b95ba842c6643e2523a6f84e98f71f56af6d39e95321e8.

Never noticed that before. I assumed their advertising was true (16x payout), but now that I look at it, it's false advertising. Betting 0.1BTC would get a 1.5968BTC profit if the bet won, which is a 15.96x multiplier. Just another reason to not invest - they falsely advertise payouts in an attempt to get more players. I suppose it would make it +EV for an investor, but I'm not sure if bitcoinbetting.website would give that to investors, and what fee they would take.

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Assuming they keep the fees, think of it like this: (assuming you are the only investor)
You invest 100 BTC into both BetKing.io and BitcoinBetting.website.
Someone bets 1 BTC at BetKing.io - your expected profit from that bet is 0.01BTC (1% edge, not counting fees).
Someone bets 1 BTC at BitcoinBetting.website - your expected profit is 0BTC

BitcoinBetting.website is not really a 0% edge game.
They take 0.0002 btc on each transaction, that's how they make money.
In fact, if you bet less than 0.02 btc, they take you more than 1% 

Strategies don't affect the EV of a gambling game where it isn't PvP (bustabit, which has a PvP aspect can become +EV), so using a "good" strategy doesn't change the EV. Going all in at a 2x multiplier is probably more effective than maritangling to double your money, as you would be paying less of a house edge.

It's about luck if it's a 0 EV site. The house isn't expected to make a profit, or lose, which makes sense that the site didn't get bankrupt.

Safedice: Someone won a 2% chance bet with 2 BTC against a 7+% house edge, causing most investors to have a huge loss.

Winning streaks might cause them to stop and cashout.

That is the reason I'm not investing. Playing on bitcoinbetting.website has the same expected value as investing, which is 0. The truth is that the expected value is 0 - no expected profit or loss. Talking about strategies doesn't change anything, nor does quoting a post which doesn't affect the expected value at all. If your talking about profiting off of variance, I'd rather invest in SafeDice where the amount wagered is the highest proportionate to the bankroll, and experience high variance there with still and expected profit.

That's the point imo as : house edge , when volume is really big, is what we expect as return on investiment.

Zero HE = Zero ROI

I think, u r mistaken. This guy has summed it up pretty well...


If u still disagree, u may place bet and try to loot the bankroll of www.bitcoinbetting.website to get the hands on experience.

is that really a 0 house edge game  maybe he is thinking about adding another game to the site ?
otherwise this would be totally a joke , why would someone invest in a 0 house edge and how is the site making money atm anyways 

I definitely would not, as I am expected to make absolutely no profit. I have investments in BitVest.io, Crypto-Games.net and BetKing.io because those games operate on a house edge, and I am expected to make a profit. Those games also have more volume as well, so profits would be more stable or losses would be lowered. By investing into a game with no expected profit, I'm exposing myself to more risk, for less reward.

That's a 0 house edge game, right?
Why would anyone consider investing into something that gives you an expected profit of nada?

The board looks interesting. It is full of loss!

This is to gauge general investor's interest regarding https://www.chain-bet.com. We are operating since May 30, 2016. Here is our announcement thread - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/chain-betcom-on-chain-no-kyc-15x-win-provably-fair-since-2016-1492457. We have got a few proposals to accept investment in bankroll. Lately, we are considering the same. We'd like to know how many of you would like to invest and if you do what would be the general range of investment...

Update: We are accepting private investments in the bankroll for test run. In case u want to invest 8 BTC, feel free to PM us or let us know in this thread.