Topic: winning tricks Calling Outs and ODDS Poker (POKER LOUNGE) (Read 1658 times)

This turned into arguments really quickly.

We should just have occasional cash BTC games and let the results do the talking

Haha wish it was 2004 

Math is used to make every single decision in poker, psychology is used where possible to help narrow down the probability of certain outcomes.  Every bit of extra information you get from psychology should be converted back into mathmatical odds BEFORE you make a betting decision.

Do you seriosly think this is the only one application for math in poker? Also lol'd at being top3 in 80% in mtts


Every poker decision is based on math, some people just dont understand what it means.


This thread is pretty tilting actually. People thinking that math in poker is like sitting there with odds calculator, trying to figure out can you call with your flush draw or not, and rest of the poker is PSYCHOLOGY. Lol. Is it 2004 again?

I won't write much cause it's obvious you don't understand anything
the OP was asking about the outs and the odds and I have answered him with numbers and facts , then you started to post about reading how people play
anyway I won't post any more about this , hopefully I have answered the OP about what he needs

I think I should just say what magicmexican said to you , this explains a lot and it's obvious you suffer from playing one table

It's the same principle in cash games -- there is no difference. Your posts make it fairly obvious that you don't play poker much or at least don't win (that or you're playing donkey stakes, aka "micro stakes"). Any real table would eat you alive if you seriously believe the crap you're posting here. But maybe that's your goal, to spread false information in the hopes that newbies will believe it and you can take advantage of them.

excuse me , but I have checked my posts more than one time and I'm sure I didn't say tourneys in my posts
would you please tell me how u assumed that I'm talking about tourneys  
everyone knows that poker is more complicated , but that doesn't mean that you don't need to understand what you are doing and what is your expected value
Tourneys have a big luck part , most of the times you have to gamble while playing tourneys and that not against the math cause tourneys has payout structure and if you have 10K chips and other player has only 1 chip he may get paid more than you
I was talking about cash games and everyone ignoring the math and EV in cash games he is just fooling himself


that's why there is a term ( changing gears )
and by the way if u have checked my example you would know what I'm talking about
I gave a small example about holding A2s , and how to know if you can make money by calling in that situation or not
yes math is not all the poker , but without math poker is not +EV game

+1

If you let any good opponent read you for playing strong hands pre-flop and 'math' thereon, he will crush your soul. (Who doesn't love to isolate these guys.)

Because while you may play your cards perfectly, he won't be playing cards. He'll be playing souls, and he'll be playing yours like an orchestra ...

Eh, you can push whatever notion you want. My consistent cashing in tournaments both in RL and online is proof to myself that what I do works. You can't possibly be getting top 3 over 80% of the time just by using math -- it's improbable that you'd lock in enough good hands (and get enough play) for that to get you to the end. In any case, it's good when some of you base all your decisions on math -- you help me win more, :p.

Math tells you the probability that your hand is going to win at showdown. This is irrelevant if you can push the otherwise winning hands from the pot. If you only play strong hands, you're not going to make it far very often.

I really hope that helped you a little to understand the game
when you are playing like 4 tables I think there is no need for bots or even EV calculator
mathematical in poker is not that hard , and people can master it by time but of course it needs working on it


well people who take poker seriously at least play 4 tables at the same time , and people who make a living by playing poker u can find them play easily 8 tables and you would be surprised if you know that there are some people play +24 tables at the same time
and most of these players prefer 6max games , now let's say that the hand will take 1 minute that means you can play around 60 hands every hour per table
if you play more than 8 tables you would know that without knowing these numbers you can't know what's your hourly rate 
you are talking about reading people , and this is not important at all in online poker
you can benefit by knowing how your opponents play ( their game style like LAG or TAG ..etc ) , and this job is only for your poker tracker or Holdem Manger
poker is a lot more complicated than what you and I said , but I was only trying to show how math works
and believe me without knowing the math in poker , dice would be much better

What would you like to know?  I'd be willing to give a few pointers.

My brother has competed in the national Poker tournament for London and always places very highly. H e hasn't won yet but he does bettter each time.

In what particular situation you will play only 50 hands? Having a sample of of tens/hundreds of thousands of hands is standard for any poker professional.

Giving too much weight to the "psychology" and "reads" is a standard fallacy that some new players fall into.

Its pretty tough to describe what it takes to be a good at poker, but if i would have to say in a few words it would be "have a sick determination to spend thousands of hours at pen&paper 'homework' "

Here's the issue: the probability is only over extended periods of time (100k+ hands minimum, 10m+ preferred). In a game like dice where you roll thousands of times, it makes more sense than in a game of poker where you may only play 50 hands. Your probability in poker isn't nearly as important as your ability to read opponents.

no tricks? I think  using math it was a tricky :p.
I have heard about that books before, but not yet read it .
And I think the book is just for online poker right?
Im enjoying play poker right now, and interested to learn deeply for sure.


There is a trick like using math to Estimate the probability what card will come out etc.
So here i am to ask anybody who know the theories, tricks to help players winning the game.

Thank you darling, that was a beautiful explanation :*  Now I need to find a bot that can do this for me!  I find this idea really interesting, and I love it how math wins AGAIN.

There are. There's also bots for major fiat-based sites. And they're seriously not bad, either. I ran one in the past on Fulltilt, 7500 people in a freeroll, I let the bot go while I slept (so it played the entire tournament itself). First tournament I got #1, second I was in top 30, and third I got #2. I got banned as a result, but it was proof to me that they can do some damage, lol.

His friend would be good yes, most likely a turned into part man part machine as a result of the dedication. 

As regards counting outs you can use software and calculators to learn and even use sometimes during games.  Im not sure how software has progressed these days but i would be surprised if there isn't something out there which tells you your outs as you play automatically.

It's more psychology than anything. You will NOT be consistently cashing in tournaments just by playing odds. In fact, you won't win many at all. Once you get the analyzing opponents part down, you can win a tournament without ever knowing what your hole cards are. 99% of the time when I buy a pot I don't even know what my cards were, because they don't matter. What matters is what the other person is going to do when I call/raise. Once you understand them, you can do extremely well.

I am not a professional but I wish 
I actually know more reading people than maths and I have only played some amateur online tournaments

Some indispensable math for you to always remember:

How many times may you call Indamuck's river bet before going broke? (ans: 2.5x)
How long should you ponder Indamuck's raise, on any street, before folding? (ans: < 2 seconds, anything more is a waste of everyone's time)
How often should you reload after spewing your entire stack to Indamuck? (ans: infinity, because the cards will turn, and you need to be in it to win it)

These are the most vital. The other 'maths' are just legend and gambler lore.

Trust me.

Wow, really interesting, is your friend good?
You could show him bitcoin and bring him here to give us some advices 

let me make it easy for u guys , I think all of you know what are the good cards
but when we are talking about math , it's not that easy but also not that complicated

I will try to give you a small example : let's say we have A2 of spades and the Board is : Qs3s7hKd

The pot is $100 and our opponent moves all-in for $50. So we have to call $50 for a chance of winning a total of $150. Assuming that the only way for us to win the hand is by hitting our flush on the last card ( we put our opponents on at least two pairs ), what is the expected value of calling? In other words, is it profitable for us to call?
and he we go with the math : The probability of hitting a flush on the river is 4.1 to 1, which is roughly 20% chance or 0.2. Therefore, the odds of not hitting a flush will be 1 - 0.2 = 0.8
Also, notice how we are looking to win $150 and only lose $50 in each outcome. We are only going to lose $50 because that is how much we are paying to try and hit our flush in this single decision. We are not factoring in money that we have put in to the pot in previous betting rounds. We just take the facts from this decision alone
so now our EV one hitting the flush is : 150$ x 0.2 = +30$
now if we calculate our EV if we don't hit the flush this would be : -50$ x 0.8 = -40$
total EV = -10$ , that means the average of us when we call in this situation is losing 10$ every hand
so this is a situation we have to avoid calling on it ( calling the bet here is worst than playing dice or roulette )

now let's say that our opponent only raise 10$ , so that would make us risk 10$ to win 60$
let's do the math again in this situation  
if we hit EV woud be : 60$ x 0.2 = +12$
if we don't hit EV would be : -10$ x 0.8 = -8$
EV = +4$ , which means in everytime we call this hand we are expecting to make 4$ and he we are doing the right decision and these decisions which makes some players winners and others are losers

I really hope that u understand a little about how math plays its part in poker

+1 I have a friend who is a proffesional poker player and he just know maths and psychology he's work is playing in pokerstars in Portugal everyday.

I think there are no tricks in poker
It's all about maths and psychology, you have to know your chances and you have to know to read the opponents mannerism and strategies

Yeah, actually I never heard of this before.  I just bet when I have a good hand, and never bluff

I am not familiar with that terminology, does anyone have a link to an overview of the basic idea?  Thanks, I am interested in learning more about this.

Hii all..

It is true that 4 of you said above?? Thats poker have a trick and the trick was counting like math?? Pliss share it more, i want to know all you got..

Because what i know playing poker only need luck to get good/best pair of cards and must have great mentality to bid more from others (have poker face), even if your cards were only High card without any single pair. But Pliss correct me if im wrong to give and share what i have in my mind.. i like to gambling but only on sportsbook and sometimes dice game, but never try poker or any other cards

these are not tricks at all , simply this is math and this what makes poker +EV game
without knowing these concepts I'm afraid dice and roulette would be much better for a gambler
I can help you with that if you are really interested in mastering poker
there are many books around that explain these concepts
I would recommend you to read Poker Math That Matters by Owen Gaines , this is really good one
and designed for beginners , he shows how math work with coin flip first in order to introduce you to the math of gambling
then he start to teach you to calculate outs , odds , implied odds , and then you may learn how to put your opponent in a rang of hands
I'm sure you will have a fun read if you are really interested in learning math of poker

Count the # of outs you believe you have.

Times that by 4 if you're on the flop.  That is roughly your % of winning.

Times that by 2 if you're on the turn.

Poker game always interesting to learned more deeply so that we can play well and Win, Its always be expected for every poker players.
AFAIK, Calculation card opportunities that will come out in playing poker called OUTS, which serves outs calculation to determine the POT ODDS a comparison / ratio between the total number of chips in the pot to the amount of betting that must be called at that time .

so, is there anybody want to share how winning tricks calling Outs and ODDS work?