Also from what I understand no hash boards are included, so if someone wants to add 5*19 pro hash boards they would need to pay $9000+ $20,000 to $25,000, this adds up to about $30,000, not sure if anyone spends that much on a water boiler bills, what is even worse, is you can only use it in the winter.
No it's not 20k to 25k. What you are talking about is the price of 5* S19 pro ASICs. Each one have 3 hashboards. We uses 5 hashboards not 5 complete antminers. Its around 7500$ to 9000$.
And everyone here who has years of experience in mining says you won't make a penny, feel free to contradict us with your claims, here!!! nobody gives a damn about your discord channel or any other page, you've come on this forum, you discuss it here!
Well, if you guys are so convinced that "without having to do any math" it doesn't work, I am short of arguments with you and won't answer further.
For those that prefer maths like I do, here my arguments. You have to understand that mining while heating is an opex to capex transfer comparing to "traditional" mining. On one side you reduce the opex as you can consider energy that you will spend anyway (heating at home) does not have to be counted twice in your personal P&L accounting if mining is the source of your heating. (or you can sell the heat in an industrial context). Yes, you have to see if there is differences in "useful" $/kWh (please acknowledge efficiency of systems) between electricity and your previous source (fuel, gas, ...) It's not usual, but I think some places like Quebec have electricity cheaper than fossile fuel. (hydropower)
But on the other side, you will pay an extra for the hardware that concentrate and transfer heat properly. In our case, a boiler stands and operate for 20 years, NOT 4-5 YEARS like mining hardware, the annual depreciation of the mining boiler is 450$ a year (9000$/20years). The annual depreciation of the hashboards is 1500 $ a year (7500$/5years).
(Note that ASIC prices were lower 6 month ago ..., some people gave me S9 for free after halving)
Its why we sell hashboards seperataly. they don't have the same depreciation as the boiler. it's not for scaming people, its clearly said on our website that asics needs to be paid later. we also don't sell asics when we know that we will not run them for 6 months (it's a presale), we clearly have incentives to wait until the "last" moment for prices to go lower as they always do.
Your goal is to know if, on a yearly basis : earnings of mining*Uptime +/- (differences of prices of energy source in $/kWh * kWh spent in the year) - annual depreciation of the special boiler - annual depreciation of hashboards > 0
uptime = percentage lower than 100% in case of not mining allyear at full capacity, we advise against putting to much power so that uptime stay in the 60 to 80% zone. It's why it's better to keep your old heat generator for peak consumption.
(careful I'm speaking in the case you only mine what you need for normal heating, if you open windows during winter by purpose, all collapse)
For a classic miner the equation is more like : earnings of mining - electricity costs - annual depreciation of hashboards > 0 (let's say the fixes costs are negligeable to simplify, they are not).
Now,
unsurprisingly, our first clients own swimming pools in temperate climate (all year uptime: 80 to 90 due to constant needs) or are real estate investors/companies.... But it's not always necessary conditions !
Yes, real estate investors want to install Sato so the tenants pay the electricity bill and they get the bitcoins. Is it "fair" ? I'm not to judge, tenants don't choose the boiler and energy sources, and they have the choice to opt out if the cost of heating is too high before entering the property. I'm passing the details on how we manage tenants/owner duality on the system or how to change or secure hashboards.
Now the equation for them is : earnings of mining*Uptime - annual depreciation of the special boiler (450$) - annual depreciation of hashboards > 0
Do I need to go further ? They don't pay electricity, AT ALL ...........
So no it's not for "rich people who wants to have fun and don't need profitability"
Yes I understand it's not for everyone, and I'm not complaining about our margin and cost of productions, it'm just stating facts. It's common in hardware to start with Model S for a niche, and expand with model 3 (and soon cheaper). It's on our roadmap to address more people, with a cheaper product in few years.
About my attitude, well, I'm not your waiter, I don't make money from your tips by being polite.
Nassim Nicholas Taleb has a terrible character, still he sold millions of copies oh his books.
I had raised capital many times, so despite my character, I'm probably at selling. I surely prefer to sell to investors.
I'm usually not that harsh with people unless they trash what I do. This attitude of calling everything a scam, and keeping doing it just because you wanted to be right when most of doubts are cleared up is a plague, especially on this forum. (you will notice my first message's tone was nicer) I'm smurfing an account but was here from 2013, so I know what I'm talking about.
I'm not looking for customers here, it's the temple of DIY (I have nothing against it), with a lot of smart tinkerers, I'm not that surprised that you will say that you can do the same for 500$.
I did it to.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/819534845771776011/819646500010459196/IMG_20180221_131252.jpg?width=1248&height=936https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/819534845771776011/819646499688415302/IMG_20180221_131257.jpg?width=1248&height=936We tried more :
Monophasic immersion, Bi-phasic immersion, cold plates ....
But Sato is not that kind of stuff. It's another league entirely.
It's mining while riding the Pressure-Temperature (P-T) diagram of the 3M biphase liquid. At start you mine under a partial vaccum which lower the boiling point, so you have a starter effect, you're ready to heat quickly (you start heating the hot water tank after reaching the boiling point.) But if needed we let the pressure rises so the boiing point goes higher than the atmospheric one. (sometimes needed for boosting heat transfer) 3M engineers lost their shit when we explained what we do, no one do this in the space at our knowledge, they helped us a lot.
We started to work on our own hashboards (not the chips, just the board) so we can optimize the capital installed in different tank capacity for different needs. (you pay per chips) Nowadays one hashboards is 1000W, we need 500W boards, 300W boards. In our product you can swap hashboards, most models, you can mix them with our "hot-swap" technology (it's just standard interfacing and casing really). No dust, no fucking noise, complete silence. In terms of security components (you don't want your hashboards to burn, or the tank to explode) we are working with thermowatt, they are one of the best in that space, absolute leaders in this industry. We R&Ded a custom design.
The hot water and heat exchangers are industrial grades, not consumer, obviously it's stainless steal, it's 20 years warranted (something I have to add on our website, but trust me here, we're just passing through our standard supplier warranty). Everything which is not electronic is warranted 20 years. There is no pump, no fans, the 12V power supply is immersed ofc. We use an industrial programmatic logic controller for the heat and power management, it costs 3X to 5X a raspberry Pi, but you don't want to mess with that with a Pi or an Arduino.
Every Sato is autonomous, no central server, we can't reach them at distance, we can't control them, we can't even say if you used it, how much you mined, in case some suit comes to us and ask us about you. At first it will need to connect to a centralized pool. As soon as we got critical mass, we go fully decentralized, every mining boiler/radiator/furnace/heat pump being a full node, doing candidate blocks.
Maybe it explains better why for now it's a 8000$ to 10000$ "boiler" (a complete PV solar installation will cost the same if you have a big area to cover + batteries + ..., at least we should compare our product with something that make money to be intellectually honest..., not a dumb hot water tank). Trust me, I dream to make this stuff for less than 2000$ and it's possible, as boilers/radiators/..../even air conditioning (with thermochemical cooling, you make cold with heat) are mass market products with millions of units sold every year.
Honestly I'm not concerned with our sales or capital needs at the moment. But I'm concerned with finding talented people, and I know there are a lot here, so if you are excited by this product and with engineering/coding or even operations/supply chain/marketing, pls DM me. Otherwise I can answer questions if you're capable of going through the "muh you can't make money with this !!!" test. I already spent to much time on this matter, and I have nothing to add to convince you.
) Otherwise, you better have to put 3 or 4 S19. Electricity price is 0,175 €/kWh in France, for Germany I think it's very costly. If there is a swimming pool to heat at summer or a nursering option for your hashboards during summer, we're closing the gap with regular miners. 
, so you pay 8k for a water heater that only mines when you are taking a shower or washing the dishes? this product is stupid at best, of course, assuming it isn't a scam altogether which is more likely. 
